People do stupid crap all the time that leaves me thinking if this were actually hard at all that would have just caused a wipe. Next week school will be in session.
Hmm, so the leveling dungeons haven't gotten much harder? That makes me a sad panda.
I got the impression from reading forums that you still don't need much cc at lower levels, but you really don't want to pull more than one pack at a time. No?
It kinda depends on how good the tank/healer are. A couple packs usually aren't a problem though.
People do stupid crap all the time that leaves me thinking if this were actually hard at all that would have just caused a wipe. Next week school will be in session.
Hmm, so the leveling dungeons haven't gotten much harder? That makes me a sad panda.
I got the impression from reading forums that you still don't need much cc at lower levels, but you really don't want to pull more than one pack at a time. No?
They're kinda harder. The mobs hit for more and have higher health pools. The boss fights now last a couple of minutes, instead of 30 seconds.
And it is still best to not pull more than one pack at a time. Tanks don't have the avoidance or health pools, and healers don't have the mana or spellpower to keep them up.
I've actually wiped a few times in SM, which is kinda an awkward feeling considering I haven't wiped in SM in YEARS.
Thank you for preordering the World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Collector's Edition from GAME.co.uk.
Don't panic! Your order is fine and we are all excited about despatching it in time for delivery on launch day.
Unfortunately Deathwing escaped from one of the boxes and attempted to destroy more than just Azeroth
by messing with some of our prices.
As a result you may have received an email saying that your preorder price had been reduced.
We have now caught him so the rest of the world is safe however the price of your preorder will remain £59.99.
We appreciate that is confusing and will ensure that Deathwing is kept guarded at all times from now on.
As a gesture of goodwill we are providing you with a code that entitles you to a £5 discount on your next
purchase on GAME.co.uk
8-)
Ha, that reminds me of the e-mail I got when I bought something from zen magnets. Spoilered since it is off topic, but I think it's pretty funny.
HOORAY! I'm pleased to announce that your order has been processed and is now complete.
Please rest assured that we hold great urgency to each and every shipment. Your package will leave us within 24 business hours of this email. Standard domestic shipping takes 3-7 business days. Standard International shipping takes 7-16 business days. Unless you selected a shipping service with tracking, there will not be an additional email.
After a rigorous 4 step process of verifying the quality and consistency of each and every magnet, we donned silk gloves and placed it into a sacred padded envelope made of magic and lined with Unicorn fur, sealed the envelope with an adhesive made from strands of Gypsy hair, and wrapped the whole thing in a snazzy looking faux gold leaf paper, with elm leaf inlay from Costco. Unfortunately, by the time it gets to you, all of that fancy stuff will likely have been picked clean by the greedy postal service employees. Please don't be surprised to see just a plain padded envelope.
While I am on board with dungeons being hard I do hope they are somewhat brief once you have mastered them.
Blizzard said a while back they wanted to move away from Vanilla multi-hour instances so I'd expect WotLK length dungeons with new and improved brain engaging content(tm). I assume the bigger stuff will be winged/modular so you can consume in reasonable portions.
Asuma on
"Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
Is there any reason why I suddenly miss 10% of my spells on the target dummy? I have 18% hit rating! ?? means level +3 right?
Think they made the training dummies level 85/88 to fit with Cataclysm content? ?? means at least 3 levels above you. It can be 100 as far as you can see.
Which really makes no sense. I know the raid bosses all have a minimum level (ie. the old world dragons would never be considered less than 60 in hit calculations, even if a level 25 wandered into the Twilight Vale and tried to help a raid), but since a training dummy can't die or attack there is no reason to set it's minimum level higher than 60 at the most (then a wider range of characters could make use of it, instead of just level 85s).
Which really makes no sense. I know the raid bosses all have a minimum level (ie. the old world dragons would never be considered less than 60 in hit calculations, even if a level 25 wandered into the Twilight Vale and tried to help a raid), but since a training dummy can't die or attack there is no reason to set it's minimum level higher than 60 at the most (then a wider range of characters could make use of it, instead of just level 85s).
Why would you need to use the raid dummy at lower than max?
And honestly, even if they just set it to "Player's current level +3", I imagine it'd be a pain if you have a level 60, a level 70, a level 80, and an 85 all attacking it.
But Rend is right. Why do you need to hit the Boss-level dummy at lower than max?
It'll be interesting (as interesting as target dummies can be) to see how they implement it with the current plan of later tier raid bosses requiring more hit-rating.
And honestly, even if they just set it to "Player's current level +3", I imagine it'd be a pain if you have a level 60, a level 70, a level 80, and an 85 all attacking it.
But Rend is right. Why do you need to hit the Boss-level dummy at lower than max?
It'll be interesting (as interesting as target dummies can be) to see how they implement it with the current plan of later tier raid bosses requiring more hit-rating.
There will be "Boss" level dummies, and then "Like a BOSS" level dummies.
Biz is right. "Back in the Day" PvP servers had objectively better players. Anyone that is/was competitive rolled on a PvP server, save like 1 or 2 guilds. Competitive in PvP or PvE. Now a days, there really isn't a difference since all PvP is done in instances and everyone spends their time queued up for them in cities.
On WotLK dungeons
I didn't play at the beginning of Wrath, in fact I only came in towards the end in May. But from my past experience with Vanilla and BC I'd venture to guess that people were not facerolling the Wrath Heroics in the first 2 months.
In Vanilla we started doing UBRS very carefully. Planned pulls, assigned CC, and assist macros. By the time our Warriors(2-3) had 5/8 Valor and Arcanite Reapers we were AEing that place down in 15 minutes(no prot warriors as we didn't have a concept of a tank by then). By the time we had Tier 2 it was even more of a cakewalk.
Burning Crusade was similar, by the time we had Tier 5 most of the heroic 5-mans were AE fests. I think CC was really only used in dungeons that mind controlled or feared.
Cataclysm will be the same. We will start out the expansion having to plan our pulls. Having to CC and not pull more than one group. But in 8 months those exact same instance will become stupid easy. There may be one or 2 mobs in the entire instance you will still need to CC, but for the most part you will be grabbing 2-3 groups and smashing their faces in.
I believe they will continue what they did when they released ToC and ICC and release a new 5-man/heroic with each new raid. Making them a challenge for people that have the latest content items. Each new instance being as difficult as H HoR was when it first came out.
Having gone from doing BRD exactly 6 years ago this week having to have the Rogue sap, Priest MC, Warlock Seduce and Mage sheep on a singlue pull to chain pulling an entire instance I had a lot of fun in WotLK. The AE fest was a lot of fun for me and I hope there will be pulls/rooms like that in Cata mixed in with the careful planning of pulls. I just ask if that there a lot of carefully planned pulls that they limit them. Having to clear the highway in BRD 6 years ago with the pull outlined above took way too fucking long.
I've been leveling up a pally tank recently and from what I've seen a lot of people have no situational awareness. I've lost count of the number of times someone has face-pulled a random trash pack or how many times a hunter has been careless with their pet or shots and pulled extra.
No one wants to wait when I try to line of sight pull a pack around the corner either. I do this to reel the casters/ranged mobs in and pull them away from other trash packs so there's more time to finish off runners. Usually the dps just kinda stands there going wtf and then opens up on the mobs before they've rounded the corner. And they're not getting out the fire, half the time they don't finish off runners, they've never heard of crowd control, they've no idea about focus fire or prioritizing targets, and if they think you're not pulling fast enough they'll "help" you by rounding up everything in sight.
People do stupid crap all the time that leaves me thinking if this were actually hard at all that would have just caused a wipe. Next week school will be in session.
Reminds me of the Heroic Halls of Lightning I did last night. Awful, awful tank. I mean, his gear was not terrible - he had some ilvl 200 stuff but some ICC stuff too. And yet he could not hold aggro for shit. Despite this, he was pulling like crazy, multiple groups at a time, etc. He pulled the first boss and the entire area of trash together (amusingly he was the only one that died there :P). We did not wipe because at this point Heroic "Anything-not-an-ICC-dungeon" is faceroll easy. Still, the whole time I was thinking this is going to be the shit happening in Cataclysm, only there WILL be wipes. Lots and lots of wipes.
The average skill level just has always appeared to be higher on the PvP servers due to he mindsets / perserverance factors.
Having played on both types of servers extensively, the issue is not that PVP players have a different mindset, any type of extra 'skill' gene, or any kind of enhanced game sense. The issue is that pvp server folks definitely think they are better than any pve player. Of course, with pvp servers populated with people that really think of themselves as the cutting edge, the myth gets propagated without much resistance. Mainly because most pve folks don't really care, while most pvp folks beat their chests about it to anyone that will listen.
I've been leveling up a pally tank recently and from what I've seen a lot of people have no situational awareness. I've lost count of the number of times someone has face-pulled a random trash pack or how many times a hunter has been careless with their pet or shots and pulled extra.
No one wants to wait when I try to line of sight pull a pack around the corner either. I do this to reel the casters/ranged mobs in and pull them away from other trash packs so there's more time to finish off runners. Usually the dps just kinda stands there going wtf and then opens up on the mobs before they've rounded the corner. And they're not getting out the fire, half the time they don't finish off runners, they've never heard of crowd control, they've no idea about focus fire or prioritizing targets, and if they think you're not pulling fast enough they'll "help" you by rounding up everything in sight.
People do stupid crap all the time that leaves me thinking if this were actually hard at all that would have just caused a wipe. Next week school will be in session.
Reminds me of the Heroic Halls of Lightning I did last night. Awful, awful tank. I mean, his gear was not terrible - he had some ilvl 200 stuff but some ICC stuff too. And yet he could not hold aggro for shit. Despite this, he was pulling like crazy, multiple groups at a time, etc. He pulled the first boss and the entire area of trash together (amusingly he was the only one that died there :P). We did not wipe because at this point Heroic "Anything-not-an-ICC-dungeon" is faceroll easy. Still, the whole time I was thinking this is going to be the shit happening in Cataclysm, only there WILL be wipes. Lots and lots of wipes.
Yeah, we've had tanks drop out of group and just run dungeons with 3 dps and a healer in dungeonfinder on a regular basis.
Having played on both types of servers extensively, the issue is not that PVP players have a different mindset, any type of extra 'skill' gene, or any kind of enhanced game sense. The issue is that pvp server folks definitely think they are better than any pve player. Of course, with pvp servers populated with people that really think of themselves as the cutting edge, the myth gets propagated without much resistance. Mainly because most pve folks don't really care, while most pvp folks beat their chests about it to anyone that will listen.
That'd be believable if all the cutting edge guilds hadn't been on PvP servers at the time.
I'm not just shooting from the hip on this, those guys bragging they are cutting edge want to be a place that's considered cutting edge.
The individual braggart may be garbage, but to pretend the PvP servers weren't more advanced is silly.
Believe me, I was shocked at the time. Coming from UO and EQ, I expected the PvE servers to be far ahead. I was thunderstruck when the opposite occurred and I think a lot of that had to do with the mindset + there was no pvp specific gear (and when it was, reasonably obtainable GOOD gear) for a long time, so being farther advanced in PvE gave a decided edge to PvP..
Which is what the PvP crowd needed.
Remember Earthshaker? Talk about a BS PvP weapon obtained through PvE...:)
Bizazedo on
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Probably had/has to do with more competitive people gravitating towards PvP servers, at least at the start. We didn't have BGs, so if you ever wanted to blow off some steam PvP servers were the only place to do it.
Given that by the time people are in Tier 12, they wont even be seeing the inside of a Heroic on that toon, no no it wont be happening like that. Progression in Cataclysm will mean that someone who raids will have very little reason to go do a Heroic. Not to mention that there are some mechanics in them that just cannot be out-geared.
I gotta say, the "pull everything" mentality of Wrath really is a culture, based on my dungeon experiences. I marked some mobs in the first room of the Blood Furnace, and the healer laughed at me, encouraging me to pull the whole room--which the dps then did. Wiiiiiipe Ciiiiity, as the healer got chain-silenced.
I didn't play at the beginning of Wrath, in fact I only came in towards the end in May. But from my past experience with Vanilla and BC I'd venture to guess that people were not facerolling the Wrath Heroics in the first 2 months.
I tanked in the first few weeks of Wrath, and it was still pretty faceroll. Nothing like what it is now, but in TBC I went out and found every piece of tanking gear I could (from group quests, usually) for heroics because tanks needed everything they could get. In Wrath I jumped into tanking heroics the moment I hit 80, still wearing greens and a few level 70 pieces.
Wrath heroics were stupid easy, and Naxx 25 was probably one of the easiest raids in WoW, at least in terms of time needed to gear up / prepare.
wow needs a diablo2-esque "stygian bone doll" type mob to discourage mass pulls
No.
NO.
N. O.
NO
NO
I can see your logic, but please do not bring that filthy creature into this game. I hate those things with a passion. Make it an ogre that explodes, I don't care. Just not one of those.
I didn't play at the beginning of Wrath, in fact I only came in towards the end in May. But from my past experience with Vanilla and BC I'd venture to guess that people were not facerolling the Wrath Heroics in the first 2 months.
I tanked in the first few weeks of Wrath, and it was still pretty faceroll. Nothing like what it is now, but in TBC I went out and found every piece of tanking gear I could (from group quests, usually) for heroics because tanks needed everything they could get. In Wrath I jumped into tanking heroics the moment I hit 80, still wearing greens and a few level 70 pieces.
Wrath heroics were stupid easy, and Naxx 25 was probably one of the easiest raids in WoW, at least in terms of time needed to gear up / prepare.
This is because heroics were pretty much equivalent to normal dungeons of the other level cap material.
I don't think heroics were really intended to be "heroic" for Wrath. Which is a shame. The closest things have been the heroic versions of the newer instances like Halls of Reflection, which do require some genuine ability or over-gearing.
On the one hand I really liked that there were like 12 dungeons to explore at level 80. Lots of diverse challenges. On the other hand, I missed that intimate challenge beyond that, but before raiding. The challenges that BC heroics presented.
Hopefully a good balance will be struck with Cataclysm.
I saw a number of blue posts where they said that they underestimated the impact of new talents, minor profession buffs, and especially glyphs on character power in 3.0. Which is why Naxx was in the same boat as the heroics. Plus adding heroic raiding in mid expansion led to unanticipated gear inflation.
Which doesn't exactly explain why they ignored months of feedback that things were *way* too easy during beta.
Man, I can't stand Northrend. I think I've pretty much decided that if I roll a goblin/worgen alt of any kind, I'm not even going to attempt to level them to 80 unless something dramatic changes.
Outland is fast enough, but man Northrend is a huge bummer after having gone through all the great new content. I know that it's been nerfed several times but it's still slow enough that it feels like a slog to me. I hear that once you get past say 73 it doesn't feel quite as bad but I don't know that once I get my warrior through I'll be able to handle doing it again. If I was actually excited about my Paladin or Mage right now I wouldn't even care about getting my Warrior or Shaman up to max level.
I really don't understand why they didn't give us a few zones for 60-80 leveling the new world so we could avoid playing old content right after new content.
Posts
It kinda depends on how good the tank/healer are. A couple packs usually aren't a problem though.
They're kinda harder. The mobs hit for more and have higher health pools. The boss fights now last a couple of minutes, instead of 30 seconds.
And it is still best to not pull more than one pack at a time. Tanks don't have the avoidance or health pools, and healers don't have the mana or spellpower to keep them up.
I've actually wiped a few times in SM, which is kinda an awkward feeling considering I haven't wiped in SM in YEARS.
Ha, that reminds me of the e-mail I got when I bought something from zen magnets. Spoilered since it is off topic, but I think it's pretty funny.
Please rest assured that we hold great urgency to each and every shipment. Your package will leave us within 24 business hours of this email. Standard domestic shipping takes 3-7 business days. Standard International shipping takes 7-16 business days. Unless you selected a shipping service with tracking, there will not be an additional email.
After a rigorous 4 step process of verifying the quality and consistency of each and every magnet, we donned silk gloves and placed it into a sacred padded envelope made of magic and lined with Unicorn fur, sealed the envelope with an adhesive made from strands of Gypsy hair, and wrapped the whole thing in a snazzy looking faux gold leaf paper, with elm leaf inlay from Costco. Unfortunately, by the time it gets to you, all of that fancy stuff will likely have been picked clean by the greedy postal service employees. Please don't be surprised to see just a plain padded envelope.
Blizzard said a while back they wanted to move away from Vanilla multi-hour instances so I'd expect WotLK length dungeons with new and improved brain engaging content(tm). I assume the bigger stuff will be winged/modular so you can consume in reasonable portions.
Think they made the training dummies level 85/88 to fit with Cataclysm content? ?? means at least 3 levels above you. It can be 100 as far as you can see.
Raid dummies are now boss level for Cataclysm: 85+3.
Why would you need to use the raid dummy at lower than max?
But Rend is right. Why do you need to hit the Boss-level dummy at lower than max?
It'll be interesting (as interesting as target dummies can be) to see how they implement it with the current plan of later tier raid bosses requiring more hit-rating.
There will be "Boss" level dummies, and then "Like a BOSS" level dummies.
you sure are ;p
someone started an epic 40k comic but for some reason stopped.
the few (14) he or she drew can be found here: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Slut_Patrol
pretty awesome imo! ;D
Biz is right. "Back in the Day" PvP servers had objectively better players. Anyone that is/was competitive rolled on a PvP server, save like 1 or 2 guilds. Competitive in PvP or PvE. Now a days, there really isn't a difference since all PvP is done in instances and everyone spends their time queued up for them in cities.
On WotLK dungeons
I didn't play at the beginning of Wrath, in fact I only came in towards the end in May. But from my past experience with Vanilla and BC I'd venture to guess that people were not facerolling the Wrath Heroics in the first 2 months.
In Vanilla we started doing UBRS very carefully. Planned pulls, assigned CC, and assist macros. By the time our Warriors(2-3) had 5/8 Valor and Arcanite Reapers we were AEing that place down in 15 minutes(no prot warriors as we didn't have a concept of a tank by then). By the time we had Tier 2 it was even more of a cakewalk.
Burning Crusade was similar, by the time we had Tier 5 most of the heroic 5-mans were AE fests. I think CC was really only used in dungeons that mind controlled or feared.
Cataclysm will be the same. We will start out the expansion having to plan our pulls. Having to CC and not pull more than one group. But in 8 months those exact same instance will become stupid easy. There may be one or 2 mobs in the entire instance you will still need to CC, but for the most part you will be grabbing 2-3 groups and smashing their faces in.
I believe they will continue what they did when they released ToC and ICC and release a new 5-man/heroic with each new raid. Making them a challenge for people that have the latest content items. Each new instance being as difficult as H HoR was when it first came out.
Having gone from doing BRD exactly 6 years ago this week having to have the Rogue sap, Priest MC, Warlock Seduce and Mage sheep on a singlue pull to chain pulling an entire instance I had a lot of fun in WotLK. The AE fest was a lot of fun for me and I hope there will be pulls/rooms like that in Cata mixed in with the careful planning of pulls. I just ask if that there a lot of carefully planned pulls that they limit them. Having to clear the highway in BRD 6 years ago with the pull outlined above took way too fucking long.
Don't fucking moan at me when I've just grabbed a group of 4 and you decide to howling blast em before I even get a thunderclap/shockwave/cleave off.
I am a cunt.
Reminds me of the Heroic Halls of Lightning I did last night. Awful, awful tank. I mean, his gear was not terrible - he had some ilvl 200 stuff but some ICC stuff too. And yet he could not hold aggro for shit. Despite this, he was pulling like crazy, multiple groups at a time, etc. He pulled the first boss and the entire area of trash together (amusingly he was the only one that died there :P). We did not wipe because at this point Heroic "Anything-not-an-ICC-dungeon" is faceroll easy. Still, the whole time I was thinking this is going to be the shit happening in Cataclysm, only there WILL be wipes. Lots and lots of wipes.
Having played on both types of servers extensively, the issue is not that PVP players have a different mindset, any type of extra 'skill' gene, or any kind of enhanced game sense. The issue is that pvp server folks definitely think they are better than any pve player. Of course, with pvp servers populated with people that really think of themselves as the cutting edge, the myth gets propagated without much resistance. Mainly because most pve folks don't really care, while most pvp folks beat their chests about it to anyone that will listen.
Yeah, we've had tanks drop out of group and just run dungeons with 3 dps and a healer in dungeonfinder on a regular basis.
That'd be believable if all the cutting edge guilds hadn't been on PvP servers at the time.
I'm not just shooting from the hip on this, those guys bragging they are cutting edge want to be a place that's considered cutting edge.
The individual braggart may be garbage, but to pretend the PvP servers weren't more advanced is silly.
Believe me, I was shocked at the time. Coming from UO and EQ, I expected the PvE servers to be far ahead. I was thunderstruck when the opposite occurred and I think a lot of that had to do with the mindset + there was no pvp specific gear (and when it was, reasonably obtainable GOOD gear) for a long time, so being farther advanced in PvE gave a decided edge to PvP..
Which is what the PvP crowd needed.
Remember Earthshaker? Talk about a BS PvP weapon obtained through PvE...:)
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
It likely evolved from there.
Given that by the time people are in Tier 12, they wont even be seeing the inside of a Heroic on that toon, no no it wont be happening like that. Progression in Cataclysm will mean that someone who raids will have very little reason to go do a Heroic. Not to mention that there are some mechanics in them that just cannot be out-geared.
I'm putting my Nostrodaumification down now as:
Zombieland.
I know zombies are starting to get played out, but I believe Blizzard can pull it off.
Plus it will in no way step on WoW or SCII or Diablo toes.
Can't remember the name of the guy moaning about tanks not holding threat for him to howling blast just the other day.
I'm on your side though :^:
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
I tanked in the first few weeks of Wrath, and it was still pretty faceroll. Nothing like what it is now, but in TBC I went out and found every piece of tanking gear I could (from group quests, usually) for heroics because tanks needed everything they could get. In Wrath I jumped into tanking heroics the moment I hit 80, still wearing greens and a few level 70 pieces.
Wrath heroics were stupid easy, and Naxx 25 was probably one of the easiest raids in WoW, at least in terms of time needed to gear up / prepare.
Shush! Don't give them any ideas.
Honestly, I hope it's something based around customization, because I want to feel unique. You don't feel too unique in Blizzard games.
WoW + Minecraft = all dicks cumming.
No.
NO.
N. O.
NO
I can see your logic, but please do not bring that filthy creature into this game. I hate those things with a passion. Make it an ogre that explodes, I don't care. Just not one of those.
This is because heroics were pretty much equivalent to normal dungeons of the other level cap material.
I don't think heroics were really intended to be "heroic" for Wrath. Which is a shame. The closest things have been the heroic versions of the newer instances like Halls of Reflection, which do require some genuine ability or over-gearing.
On the one hand I really liked that there were like 12 dungeons to explore at level 80. Lots of diverse challenges. On the other hand, I missed that intimate challenge beyond that, but before raiding. The challenges that BC heroics presented.
Hopefully a good balance will be struck with Cataclysm.
That'd be awesome too. Looks like Minecraft is heading that way already though.
Which doesn't exactly explain why they ignored months of feedback that things were *way* too easy during beta.
I could only hope, but truth be told... Notch and his studio simply can't come close to what I would want. Blizzard would make the shit work.
Outland is fast enough, but man Northrend is a huge bummer after having gone through all the great new content. I know that it's been nerfed several times but it's still slow enough that it feels like a slog to me. I hear that once you get past say 73 it doesn't feel quite as bad but I don't know that once I get my warrior through I'll be able to handle doing it again. If I was actually excited about my Paladin or Mage right now I wouldn't even care about getting my Warrior or Shaman up to max level.
I really don't understand why they didn't give us a few zones for 60-80 leveling the new world so we could avoid playing old content right after new content.
WRONG. Come on guys, this is easy... Kotick strong arms Blizzard into being the new developer for:
WORLD OF CALL OF DUTYCRAFT: THE EARTH SHATTERER