What do you mean "force a 3v3 fight"? If you're in a position where they can do that, it probably means you're overextended. It's very hard to actually force people to fight in this game unless you manage to flank them (and even that doesn't necessarily work, depending on the champions involved). Being flanked = you're in a bad position/you failed at map awareness/etc.
...Okay. What about contesting map objectives is difficult to understand. You seem to know that warding dragon is a good idea - so, why is that? If you have dragon warded and you see the enemy team going to take dragon, assuming that your team is in a position to do so, you're going to try and fight them over it right?
The enemy team just forced a teamfight.
This isn't exactly an advanced concept.
The Ender on
With Love and Courage
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
My entire goal throughout the game is to get ahead as safely as possible.
Conversely, your goal is also to prevent your teammates from falling behind as safely as possible.
Bethryn on
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
0
Dac VinS-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC!Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
I reiterate, "man I'm like hella high right now" is the worst thing a teammate can say.
Yup, Trace, another thing you can add to the Box because I played with one such man, who picked Karthus despite it being the worst choice he could make at the moment (Translation: The enemy had picked Veigar), went mid and fed three or so kills to a Vladimir, then kept whining at me because I was ksing and not attacking all the time (Translation: Not trying to commit suicide). I say, the only reason we won this game was a) we had a fucking awesome Anivia (who picked her before someone on the other team went Veigar) who got fed early, b) I somehow pulled off a 1v2 against a double stun lane as Tristana and managed to get an awesome farm, and c) their Twitch ragequit because Anivia and I kept on killing him over and over 8-)
Assuming that Poppy opens with her E into terrain and follows-up with her Q (onto a target other than the one she ulted), firing off DFG as well if she has it, which Poppy will do more damage over 6 seconds (assuming she is able to constantly attack her target)?
When comparing AP Poppy to AD Poppy, it's better to compare Lichbane / DFG to Ghostblade / Triforce. They both offer the same amount of CDR, which is important to any Poppy build.
In that scenario, with similar costs, AD comes out on top. You lose out slightly (but only very slightly) on the initial burst with DFG on the first target (however you still have enough damage to drop your focus fast, also Ghostblade active), but you can actually efficiently kill a second or third target.
After that point, AP Poppy starts scaling faster, and beats out AD Poppy.
Recap:
Early game AP and AD Poppy perform the same, since they both rushed Sheen anyway.
Early-mid game, AD Poppy significantly out performs AP Poppy, since it has a smoother power curve, since you are buying Sheen -> Brutalizer -> Phage -> Zeal, etc, all cheaper items and easier to go from one to the next, that offer you more than the components for DFG.
Mid game, on squishies, AD Poppy outperforms AP slightly, on slightlier chunkier targets, AP does better (thanks to DFG). This is the point where you both should have Lichbane/DFG and Triforce/Ghostblade, and so my analysis in the second paragraph stands.
Lategame, I feel AP is stronger. Huge damage from DFG, and better scaling on DB. DB essentially becomes a 1.6 AP ratio due to Lichbane, whereas Triforce is static. However it is important to note, many games do not get this far.
This is mostly my opinion, based on my experiences in playing Poppy, and based on numbers.
Oh God.
Oh God the Ghostblade.
It's so cheap.
You run so fast.
Why have I never built this item before???
The Ender on
With Love and Courage
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
On every melee dps.
The first question you ask.
Is.
IS THERE A BETTER ITEM THAN GHOSTBLADE FOR THIS CHARACTER?
Flash just seems like a must on Morgana. Flash + ult/zhonya after the other team commits to the fight is just too damn awesome. I don't see Ghost being quite as good, gives them a chance to CC you and such. Although Ghost/Flash could be a possibility. Thing is though I don't have much trouble actually surviving on Morgana.
TP is nice, but I don't know. I think I'm actually leaning Exhaust just for the absolute ridiculous amounts of CC. Of course TP would make it easier for me to keep my mana up early game, so that's something to consider... fast Zhonya's... do want...
Teleport is crucial for getting around the map to fights while you've been farming elsewhere and for getting back early ASAP for your Catalyst when you can afford.
Plus if you're laning against someone whose damage you can't block, it'll help avoid dying as you have less of a concern missing xp from going back.
I can't think of anything I'd really want to take instead of Tele except for maaaaaybe Clarity and not really. Maybe Clairvoyance if no one on the team has one, but I'd even consider giving up my Flash instead of my Tele. (I run Clair/Tele on Zilean for example)
Depends if you believe some early kills will will be important in the game. Black shield, soil, auto-attack, ignite is pretty useful.
Shaco appears right behind me, pops Hallucinate. I just hit 1 and Q whichever one I think might be real. I wind-up destroying Fako, then promptly demolish the real Shaco. Then Nidalee and Tryn jump on me from a jungle bush, and my ult comes up just as they do. So I ult Nidalee and blow her away with extraordinary prejudice, then turn on Tryn cuz it's not like I can run from him anyway. Clear out his bar in about 3 swings (including a Q), he rages and goes to run/spin away, but my Triforce procs the slooooowwww and I catch up in no time with W. Bam, Facedownamere.
Warmog's + Atma's is pretty baller, I've been thinking about getting it on random people like Master Yi and Sivir ever since I saw one of my friends do it for Tristana (lolz)
Actually, just Atmas is baller. I am of the belief you should buy Atmas on almost every DPS carry, save a few, circumstances permitting.
It is not best in slot, assuming you have unlimited gold and need to fill all 6 slots. This never happens generally. Games end before this most of the time.
What it is, is pretty much the most cost efficient item around, maybe even in the game. 1800 hp is the cross over, always remember this. Who has more than 1800 hp? Pretty much everyone.
At 1100 hp, Atmas is buyable. Yes, buyable. You get the exact stats you pay for (though I don't recommend this). At 1800 hp, when you buy Atmas, you are ONLY paying for the damage on it, and the crit. The armor is completely free. 45 armor for 0 gold. This is a big deal. It adds to your survivability a ton. 1800+ hp, you are getting free armor and even more damage than you are paying for.
You will go well over 2000 hp on pretty much every carry when you build Banshee's Veil, another pretty much must have item on carries as well, further enhancing your Atmas. Also, don't forget red pot.
When I play Tristana/MF, my build for example, is 2-3 Doran's Blades -> Boots -> Infinity Edge as core. After Infinity Edge, I christmas pot and try to win/finish the game. If the game is continuing, I follow with Atmas, Banshees Veil, Last Whisper, Frozen Mallet, not necessarily in that order, it depends on what I feel I need.
Atma's is amazing on Olaf.
Health items (Warmogs, Frozen Mallet, etc.) is how I build Olaf after getting my ass kicked by an Olaf who was running around with 5k health. Has his own steroid skill, much like Mundo, that makes shit crazy.
Edit:
Also, everyone should play Vlad with 35-50% spell vamp. It's amazin'
Shamus on
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
What do you mean "force a 3v3 fight"? If you're in a position where they can do that, it probably means you're overextended. It's very hard to actually force people to fight in this game unless you manage to flank them (and even that doesn't necessarily work, depending on the champions involved). Being flanked = you're in a bad position/you failed at map awareness/etc.
I'll agree that Teleport is a nice safety valve for counterganking and turning enemy ganks to your advantage, and that it's good for baiting as well, but how do you weigh that versus the unique utility that the other summoner spells provide?
Anyway, the point I keep trying to pound in is that people need to be utilizing towers and not feeling like they are being forced to fight in equal, or especially lesser numbers. No shame in tactical retreat.
I think TP is a very useful spell and I've gone through a number of phases where I've run it, but I don't by any means think it's the only choice and I think it's kind of silly to just make it your default. For instance, if you teamfight a group with two Exhausts and two Ignites while you have none, they have a massive advantage in damage and crowd control.
I can certainly see the argument for running at least one TP on your team, though. I'm not sure Morgana is the best choice for it, however; it seems like it'd be really good on a hard carry who backdoors well.
Exhaust is overrated. It's only worthwhile nerfing a melee carry, because its range is too short to use on a ranged carry. If you were close enough to use it on a ranged carry with a champion like Morgana, they fucked up.
I mean, sure, Exhaust the Amumu who waddles in, that's going to do alot.
You will understand my position more if I give a favorite saying of someone I play with every now and again:
"Gank hard and often, win at 25. Sit around and farm, win at 45."
I don't always agree with it, but this isn't HoN. Unless you have like GP or Trynd, you probably have better things to be doing than having your entire team turret hug while your carry farms the safe lane. If they want xp also, they need to be pushing lanes out or jungling, both of which are known to cause fights.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I don't get it on akali, is that bad? rylais means people will not get away
I think I want to unlock udyr next. but I have never seen a single udyr in game so I have no idea what he does.
The answer in Akali's case is actually "yes" (which is unusual but is based around how she does her damage). Rageblade, Sheen (!) and Rylai's are all better for her.
Bethryn on
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Ghostblade is probably the best item I've almost never bought, but it probably relates to what champions I play. The only ones who I'd even consider it on would be Olaf and Trundle, and I generally have different priorities on them.
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Dac VinS-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC!Registered Userregular
Ghostblade is probably the best item I've almost never bought, but it probably relates to what champions I play. The only ones who I'd even consider it on would be Olaf and Trundle, and I generally have different priorities on them.
Of all the champions I play, there's a few I would put a ghostblade on actually - Tryndamere being the most obvious, Twitch since I usually go two avarices build on him, and Sion if I'm forced to go AD on him for some reason. Anyone else, I have better priorities.
Look, teleport is awesome because you can teleport to wards.
The possibilities that involves are endless. If you have a good ward pressence it means you can gank everywhere anywhere at anytime for any reason.
When a friend used to play AP Teemo alot, we'd always Teleport to his mushrooms. This is about as hilarious as it sounds.
Also, it's not uncommon for us to have wards at enemy blue/red and if there's a long fight early, to have the guy who just respawned teleport to one of those and try to kill weakened enemy runners.
EDIT: At the loading screen, the two spells I look for are Flashes (fffff get out of fail free) and Teleports (for obvious reasons). No other spells I strongly need to keep in mind or are going to make my life miserable. (Revive on Pants/TF is a special case.)
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I'd rather get other items than a ghostblade on Olaf
so just played an excellent game that I and bagel screwed up. Bagel, because he had a friend issue. Me because I pushed a fight we should not have pushed. I feel sad. It was not over however until my team was finished just barely to quickly back at base. life is hard.
How do you guys build your Olafs anyway? I basically always build him DPS (ghostblade and elixirs of fortitude), playing defensive masteries until recently I've started going offensive. I also have dodge runes, nimbleness, ninja tabi and often build a phantom dancer if they have some nasty physical carries.
How do you guys build your Olafs anyway? I basically always build him DPS (ghostblade and elixirs of fortitude), playing defensive masteries until recently I've started going offensive. I also have dodge runes, nimbleness, ninja tabi and often build a phantom dancer if they have some nasty physical carries.
Jungling
0/20/10
Ghost/Fort
flat AD reds, armor and mp5 yellows, flat cdr blues, health quints
Wriggles
Boots1
Phage
Boots2
Recurve
finish Mallet
Guardian Angel
Zeal if doing well/Negatron if not
Recurve->Madred's/Wit's/Stark's (your call)
Zeal->Phantom Dancer or Negatron->Banshee's
I have a lovely incomplete guide in my siggy. It says something like use armour yellows, take phoenix stance and mash ancient golem with phoenix stance over and over. Then repeat ad infinitum while chugging potions and wearing cloth armour.
Look, teleport is awesome because you can teleport to wards.
The possibilities that involves are endless. If you have a good ward pressence it means you can gank everywhere anywhere at anytime for any reason.
When a friend used to play AP Teemo alot, we'd always Teleport to his mushrooms. This is about as hilarious as it sounds.
Also, it's not uncommon for us to have wards at enemy blue/red and if there's a long fight early, to have the guy who just respawned teleport to one of those and try to kill weakened enemy runners.
EDIT: At the loading screen, the two spells I look for are Flashes (fffff get out of fail free) and Teleports (for obvious reasons). No other spells I strongly need to keep in mind or are going to make my life miserable. (Revive on Pants/TF is a special case.)
You better don't go for a kill on somebody with a heal then!
I've always wanted to do a team that uses wards and teleport offensively.
Shamus on
0
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
There are times when I am so incredibly happy that taunt interrupts and sets on cooldown teleport. Mainly when the enemy who can't escape knows this, hits teleport, and at the last possible minute your taunt goes off and kills him.
Look, teleport is awesome because you can teleport to wards.
The possibilities that involves are endless. If you have a good ward pressence it means you can gank everywhere anywhere at anytime for any reason.
When a friend used to play AP Teemo alot, we'd always Teleport to his mushrooms. This is about as hilarious as it sounds.
Also, it's not uncommon for us to have wards at enemy blue/red and if there's a long fight early, to have the guy who just respawned teleport to one of those and try to kill weakened enemy runners.
EDIT: At the loading screen, the two spells I look for are Flashes (fffff get out of fail free) and Teleports (for obvious reasons). No other spells I strongly need to keep in mind or are going to make my life miserable. (Revive on Pants/TF is a special case.)
You better don't go for a kill on somebody with a heal then!
People not named Mundo take Heal? :P
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MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Played jungle Fiddlesticks yesterday. I'm surprised at how super easy he is to just walk through jungle and kill things without issues. Jungling Irelia, I'm always nail biting on how close her kills are, but oh no, not Fiddlesticks. He just saunters in and draindraindraindrains away.
However, I realized the biggest issue with jungle Fiddle - if your team can't keep people in place, and you're facing a highly mobile team...you're pretty much crying alone while your crowstorm lights up creeps. Just let me count the times that I crow stormed into Tristana, popped a fear on her, just to have her rocket jump away at the same millisecond to land far away...feared.
Played jungle Fiddlesticks yesterday. I'm surprised at how super easy he is to just walk through jungle and kill things without issues. Jungling Irelia, I'm always nail biting on how close her kills are, but oh no, not Fiddlesticks. He just saunters in and draindraindraindrains away.
However, I realized the biggest issue with jungle Fiddle - if your team can't keep people in place, and you're facing a highly mobile team...you're pretty much crying alone while your crowstorm lights up creeps. Just let me count the times that I crow stormed into Tristana, popped a fear on her, just to have her rocket jump away at the same millisecond to land far away...feared.
Jungle Fiddles is a little slow, unfortunately. He's safe and can do an early Dragon, but slow.
Posts
...Okay. What about contesting map objectives is difficult to understand. You seem to know that warding dragon is a good idea - so, why is that? If you have dragon warded and you see the enemy team going to take dragon, assuming that your team is in a position to do so, you're going to try and fight them over it right?
The enemy team just forced a teamfight.
This isn't exactly an advanced concept.
Yup, Trace, another thing you can add to the Box because I played with one such man, who picked Karthus despite it being the worst choice he could make at the moment (Translation: The enemy had picked Veigar), went mid and fed three or so kills to a Vladimir, then kept whining at me because I was ksing and not attacking all the time (Translation: Not trying to commit suicide). I say, the only reason we won this game was a) we had a fucking awesome Anivia (who picked her before someone on the other team went Veigar) who got fed early, b) I somehow pulled off a 1v2 against a double stun lane as Tristana and managed to get an awesome farm, and c) their Twitch ragequit because Anivia and I kept on killing him over and over 8-)
Oh God.
Oh God the Ghostblade.
It's so cheap.
You run so fast.
Why have I never built this item before???
The first question you ask.
Is.
IS THERE A BETTER ITEM THAN GHOSTBLADE FOR THIS CHARACTER?
Depends if you believe some early kills will will be important in the game. Black shield, soil, auto-attack, ignite is pretty useful.
I will never use another champ again.
It's like, I press 1.
Then everyone just stops.
Because it's hammer time.
EDIT: Okay, I have to tell the story.
Shaco appears right behind me, pops Hallucinate. I just hit 1 and Q whichever one I think might be real. I wind-up destroying Fako, then promptly demolish the real Shaco. Then Nidalee and Tryn jump on me from a jungle bush, and my ult comes up just as they do. So I ult Nidalee and blow her away with extraordinary prejudice, then turn on Tryn cuz it's not like I can run from him anyway. Clear out his bar in about 3 swings (including a Q), he rages and goes to run/spin away, but my Triforce procs the slooooowwww and I catch up in no time with W. Bam, Facedownamere.
Tryndamere /ALL: such bullshit my char stopped
Me /ALL: duh. it was hammer time.
I don't get it on akali, is that bad? rylais means people will not get away
I think I want to unlock udyr next. but I have never seen a single udyr in game so I have no idea what he does.
she's a close range caster
Atma's is amazing on Olaf.
Health items (Warmogs, Frozen Mallet, etc.) is how I build Olaf after getting my ass kicked by an Olaf who was running around with 5k health. Has his own steroid skill, much like Mundo, that makes shit crazy.
Edit:
Also, everyone should play Vlad with 35-50% spell vamp. It's amazin'
I mean, sure, Exhaust the Amumu who waddles in, that's going to do alot.
You will understand my position more if I give a favorite saying of someone I play with every now and again:
"Gank hard and often, win at 25. Sit around and farm, win at 45."
I don't always agree with it, but this isn't HoN. Unless you have like GP or Trynd, you probably have better things to be doing than having your entire team turret hug while your carry farms the safe lane. If they want xp also, they need to be pushing lanes out or jungling, both of which are known to cause fights.
Of all the champions I play, there's a few I would put a ghostblade on actually - Tryndamere being the most obvious, Twitch since I usually go two avarices build on him, and Sion if I'm forced to go AD on him for some reason. Anyone else, I have better priorities.
The possibilities that involves are endless. If you have a good ward pressence it means you can gank everywhere anywhere at anytime for any reason.
Also, shootting an arrow, teleporting to a ward behind someone in mid as Ashe is the greatest thing since sliced bread became Jesus.
Also, it's not uncommon for us to have wards at enemy blue/red and if there's a long fight early, to have the guy who just respawned teleport to one of those and try to kill weakened enemy runners.
EDIT: At the loading screen, the two spells I look for are Flashes (fffff get out of fail free) and Teleports (for obvious reasons). No other spells I strongly need to keep in mind or are going to make my life miserable. (Revive on Pants/TF is a special case.)
But I do love me some ghostblade
0/20/10
Ghost/Fort
flat AD reds, armor and mp5 yellows, flat cdr blues, health quints
Wriggles
Boots1
Phage
Boots2
Recurve
finish Mallet
Guardian Angel
Zeal if doing well/Negatron if not
Recurve->Madred's/Wit's/Stark's (your call)
Zeal->Phantom Dancer or Negatron->Banshee's
Yes. Yes you would.
erryday
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I have a lovely incomplete guide in my siggy. It says something like use armour yellows, take phoenix stance and mash ancient golem with phoenix stance over and over. Then repeat ad infinitum while chugging potions and wearing cloth armour.
You better don't go for a kill on somebody with a heal then!
we had a ward outside dragon
ashe hit the enemy doing dragon with an arrow while someone else ported in on the ward for the kill
pretty common ashe move; but, it's a little more impressive coordinated between a couple people.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
However, I realized the biggest issue with jungle Fiddle - if your team can't keep people in place, and you're facing a highly mobile team...you're pretty much crying alone while your crowstorm lights up creeps. Just let me count the times that I crow stormed into Tristana, popped a fear on her, just to have her rocket jump away at the same millisecond to land far away...feared.
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter