this whole "Inception / double kick / dream inside a dream" thing didn't really do it for me.
.
Wait what.
I second this what.
I believe he is talking about during the credits of ACB that you hear someone being put back into an Animus, don't you? Suggesting that someone is in the Animus reliving Desmond's memories of reliving Ezio's?
InkSplat on
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
this whole "Inception / double kick / dream inside a dream" thing didn't really do it for me.
.
Wait what.
I second this what.
I believe he is talking about during the credits of ACB that you hear someone being put back into an Animus, don't you? Suggesting that someone is in the Animus reliving Desmond's memories of reliving Ezio's?
The REAL question I have is whether (again, major spoilers for after the game is done):
The guy that may be reliving Desmond's dreams actually made Desmond kill Lucy. Or if it was this Minerva chick, that Subject 16 is "not who she says she is."
There's a lot going on here. Desmond clearly didn't want to kill Lucy. You can make Ezio kill civilians and he desynchronizes. In a way, this could be what happened to Desmond. The game ends with him stabbing Lucy. And it is actually implied that someone just desynchronized from an Animus.
Also:
I took the whole Minerva/forced-killing-Lucy speech as her forcing him out of the nest. He'll have to run now because of what he just did, forcing him to use his talents out there, alone. Also, severing him from Lucy, because he was starting to have feelings for her, because...maybe he's supposed to be the next Adam? The way she spoke of "another" "she" means Desmond needs to find a new Eve?
The REAL question I have is whether (again, major spoilers for after the game is done):
The guy that may be reliving Desmond's dreams actually made Desmond kill Lucy. Or if it was this Minerva chick, that Subject 16 is "not who she says she is."
There's a lot going on here. Desmond clearly didn't want to kill Lucy. You can make Ezio kill civilians and he desynchronizes. In a way, this could be what happened to Desmond. The game ends with him stabbing Lucy. And it is actually implied that someone just desynchronized from an Animus.
Also:
I took the whole Minerva/forced-killing-Lucy speech as her forcing him out of the nest. He'll have to run now because of what he just did, forcing him to use his talents out there, alone. Also, severing him from Lucy, because he was starting to have feelings for her, because...maybe he's supposed to be the next Adam? The way she spoke of "another" "she" means Desmond needs to find a new Eve?
There are a lot of ways this could go.
Alternatively
It occurs to me that it could be a counter-intel op. So what we've seen is exactly what has been happening to Desmond in the present, and the killing was staged to throw Abstergo off.
Afterall if memories go by the DNA in this universe, then Abstergo could have collected a sample from Desmond and used that to artificially follow his memory and try and figure out his next move or infiltrate the Assassin's.
So it could be like this: what Juno actually did was write a program trap into Desmond's genetic memory - so anyone reliving it stabs Lucy - doing something that Desmond himself never did to deliberately desynch any future observers at that point, thus preventing any spying on him and thus any ability to use a tissue sample in the future to figure out what his next move was.
Of course
The idea that humans betrayed the original civilization seems shifty-as-fuck. The Pieces of Eden seem like they were designed to be able to directly control human minds (there's the whole reference to the unknown, unresponsive neurotransmitter). The hieroglyphs you see when talking to Minerva in AC2 show a "god" using a PE on a bunch of bowing down worshippers.
To me it seems like The Truth video showed quite a different interpretation: Adam and Eve were simply the first ones to say "Fuck this noise" and steal a Piece of Eden to break their slavery to the The One's Who Came Before.
The REAL question I have is whether (again, major spoilers for after the game is done):
The guy that may be reliving Desmond's dreams actually made Desmond kill Lucy. Or if it was this Minerva chick, that Subject 16 is "not who she says she is."
There's a lot going on here. Desmond clearly didn't want to kill Lucy. You can make Ezio kill civilians and he desynchronizes. In a way, this could be what happened to Desmond. The game ends with him stabbing Lucy. And it is actually implied that someone just desynchronized from an Animus.
Also:
I took the whole Minerva/forced-killing-Lucy speech as her forcing him out of the nest. He'll have to run now because of what he just did, forcing him to use his talents out there, alone. Also, severing him from Lucy, because he was starting to have feelings for her, because...maybe he's supposed to be the next Adam? The way she spoke of "another" "she" means Desmond needs to find a new Eve?
There are a lot of ways this could go.
Alternatively
It occurs to me that it could be a counter-intel op. So what we've seen is exactly what has been happening to Desmond in the present, and the killing was staged to throw Abstergo off.
Afterall if memories go by the DNA in this universe, then Abstergo could have collected a sample from Desmond and used that to artificially follow his memory and try and figure out his next move or infiltrate the Assassin's.
So it could be like this: what Juno actually did was write a program trap into Desmond's genetic memory - so anyone reliving it stabs Lucy - doing something that Desmond himself never did to deliberately desynch any future observers at that point, thus preventing any spying on him and thus any ability to use a tissue sample in the future to figure out what his next move was.
That is interesting and I think perhaps highly probable. I cannot wait for AC3.
The idea that humans betrayed the original civilization seems shifty-as-fuck. The Pieces of Eden seem like they were designed to be able to directly control human minds (there's the whole reference to the unknown, unresponsive neurotransmitter). The hieroglyphs you see when talking to Minerva in AC2 show a "god" using a PE on a bunch of bowing down worshippers.
To me it seems like The Truth video showed quite a different interpretation: Adam and Eve were simply the first ones to say "Fuck this noise" and steal a Piece of Eden to break their slavery to the The One's Who Came Before.
Yeah, I am thinking that as well. I mean...
It sure as hell sounds like Minerva's race is hell bent on destroying Human civilization, right?
They do not seem benevolent.
Drez on
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
0
Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
this whole "Inception / double kick / dream inside a dream" thing didn't really do it for me.
.
Wait what.
I second this what.
I believe he is talking about during the credits of ACB that you hear someone being put back into an Animus, don't you? Suggesting that someone is in the Animus reliving Desmond's memories of reliving Ezio's?
The person being put back into the Animus is Desmond. The voice that says "no" is very clearly Nolan North. It's the other two voices that are unknown characters. We also don't know when or under what circumstances the conversation takes place.
this whole "Inception / double kick / dream inside a dream" thing didn't really do it for me.
.
Wait what.
I second this what.
I believe he is talking about during the credits of ACB that you hear someone being put back into an Animus, don't you? Suggesting that someone is in the Animus reliving Desmond's memories of reliving Ezio's?
The person being put back into the Animus is Desmond. The voice that says "no" is very clearly Nolan North. It's the other two voices that are unknown characters. We also don't know when or under what circumstances the conversation takes place.
Just because that is Nolan North's voice doesn't really prove anything, especially if we're in the middle of a total mindfuck.
Hell, maybe Desmond is reliving his own memories of the past for some reason? (I actually think this is most likely.)
Or maybe Desmond's great, great, grandson is reliving Desmond's memories and just has the same/a similar voice.
Anyway, I don't think recognition of his voice is enough to prove that is Desmond. I mean, hell, this was actively exploited in the buildup to Metal Gear Solid 3's release (and interestingly, MGS and AC both do shout outs to each other rather frequently).
I mean, it's a fair observation, but it doesn't totally prove that it is Desmond. The ending is ambiguous for this exact reason: so we'll all say "wtf?" and talk about it.
this whole "Inception / double kick / dream inside a dream" thing didn't really do it for me.
.
Wait what.
I second this what.
I believe he is talking about during the credits of ACB that you hear someone being put back into an Animus, don't you? Suggesting that someone is in the Animus reliving Desmond's memories of reliving Ezio's?
The person being put back into the Animus is Desmond. The voice that says "no" is very clearly Nolan North. It's the other two voices that are unknown characters. We also don't know when or under what circumstances the conversation takes place.
Just because that is Nolan North's voice doesn't really prove anything, especially if we're in the middle of a total mindfuck.
Hell, maybe Desmond is reliving his own memories of the past for some reason? (I actually think this is most likely.)
Or maybe Desmond's great, great, grandson is reliving Desmond's memories and just has the same/a similar voice.
Anyway, I don't think recognition of his voice is enough to prove that is Desmond. I mean, hell, this was actively exploited in the buildup to Metal Gear Solid 3's release (and interestingly, MGS and AC both do shout outs to each other rather frequently).
I mean, it's a fair observation, but it doesn't totally prove that it is Desmond. The ending is ambiguous for this exact reason: so we'll all say "wtf?" and talk about it.
Desmond's son becomes a Templar and relives his memories in order to trace where Desmond his the Apple for the Assassins.
Willeth on
@vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming! @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I will accept the possibility that Desmond is a clone of Big Boss.
Best. Crossover. Ever.
Assassin's Creed III trailer:
Minerva: Ah, I see you have found Eve and have brought the other Pieces of Eden.
Desmond: Yes, we did. It took 71 days, but I found them all. And I'm going to beat you.
Minerva: Silly whelp! This is exactly as we intended all along. The old world will die and the new world will begin whether you like it or not. No man can murder me!
Desmond: (Holding the Apple of Eden up to Minerva) Says you!
Minerva: I find your modern human colloquialisms distasteful on my refined ears, child of eden, but no matter, that will be expunged in time.
Desmond: Says you!
Minerva: Enough! What do you intend to do, Desmond Miles?
Desmond: To destroy you! To defeat you and save mankind!
Minerva: Then you shall fight my robot.
Desmond: Uh...robot?
Minerva: (Casually gesturing to the left at a giant robot.) You shall fight Metal Gear!
Desmond: Metal Gear?!
(Boss battle commences.)
Rebecca: Christ, guys, I think something's wrong with the Animus again. Wait, what's this? Shaun! (Holding up a DVD-R) Did you patch in this game data without telling me?
Shaun: I refuse to respond to your completely unfounded accusations, Rebecca. Yet again, you point your fingers at me without even remotely trying to-
Rebecca: The label on this disc says "property of Shaun."
this whole "Inception / double kick / dream inside a dream" thing didn't really do it for me.
.
Wait what.
I second this what.
I believe he is talking about during the credits of ACB that you hear someone being put back into an Animus, don't you? Suggesting that someone is in the Animus reliving Desmond's memories of reliving Ezio's?
The person being put back into the Animus is Desmond. The voice that says "no" is very clearly Nolan North. It's the other two voices that are unknown characters. We also don't know when or under what circumstances the conversation takes place.
Just because that is Nolan North's voice doesn't really prove anything, especially if we're in the middle of a total mindfuck.
Hell, maybe Desmond is reliving his own memories of the past for some reason? (I actually think this is most likely.)
Or maybe Desmond's great, great, grandson is reliving Desmond's memories and just has the same/a similar voice.
Anyway, I don't think recognition of his voice is enough to prove that is Desmond. I mean, hell, this was actively exploited in the buildup to Metal Gear Solid 3's release (and interestingly, MGS and AC both do shout outs to each other rather frequently).
I mean, it's a fair observation, but it doesn't totally prove that it is Desmond. The ending is ambiguous for this exact reason: so we'll all say "wtf?" and talk about it.
Desmond's son becomes a Templar and relives his memories in order to trace where Desmond his the Apple for the Assassins.
And to top it off, he's a quintuple-spy for the Templars. The Assassins think that Desmond's son is pretending to pretend to pretend to work for the Assassins by telling the Templars that he's a triple-spy for the Templars by telling the Assassins that he's really just pretending to be a double-spy for the Templars by being in the Templars but spying on them for the Assassins but really telling the Templars what the Assassins are doing but in the end he's really just working for the Templars after all.
Chest Capture and a new map and probably 1-hour queues. If they really can't fix the matchmaking speed they should at least let our character fool around in the Animus waiting void.
Desmond is the guy being put back into the animus by new person, probably William M.
Ubisoft has flat out said that the main character of Assassin's Creed is Desmond Miles and no one else. The entire story is his story so there isn't going to be another person reliving his story.
Secondly
Juno has Desmond stab Lucy because she is a Templar. You get hints from this all through out the game and it flat out tells you in The Truth where you talk to subject 16
Desmond: Subject 16?
Subject 16: [laughs] Yes, yes, Subject 17.
Desmond: You’re dead. I saw your blood!
Subject 16: No time. It is far later than you know. Too late to save them.
Desmond: Who?
Subject 16: She is not who you think she is. Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear, it’s already gone.
Desmond: Explain. Please.
Subject 16: Eden. She... in Eden. Find Eve. The Key. Her DNA
Desmond: Tell me!
Subject 16: I cannot... The sun... Your son... Too weak... Must replenish energy...
Desmond: Don’t go!
Subject 16: I am with you 'til the end. Find me, in the darkness.
If I had to guess I think that Abstergo probably already killed all the Assassins and they are just stringing Desmond along. Though it could be that just Lucy is an inside agent.
i know this game is a mindfuck but I have no idea why people jump to INCEPTION! instead of the far simpler "Desmond was driven back to Assassin HQ and put back in the animus for the player's sake"
i know this game is a mindfuck but I have no idea why people jump to INCEPTION! instead of the far simpler "Desmond was driven back to Assassin HQ and put back in the animus for the player's sake"
The simplest answer is most likely the correct one, but that's only with all things being equal. I agree with you, and won't be assuming new layers of the story exist until they're actually shown to me. We have to admit, though, that between "The Truth" and the purposefully confusing ending, all things are not equal.
Wappadu on
0
MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
I will accept the possibility that Desmond is a clone of Big Boss.
Best. Crossover. Ever.
Assassin's Creed III trailer:
Minerva: Ah, I see you have found Eve and have brought the other Pieces of Eden.
Desmond: Yes, we did. It took 71 days, but I found them all. And I'm going to beat you.
Minerva: Silly whelp! This is exactly as we intended all along. It's your genes... they make you predisposed towards violence!
Desmond: What!
Minerva: Are you denying it? Haven't you already killed most of my comrades?
Desmond: That was...
Minerva: I watched your face when you did it. It was filled with the joy of battle.
Desmond: You're wrong!
Minerva: There's a killer inside you... You don't have to deny it. You were created to be that way.
Desmond: Created?
[Begin stock footage montage]
Minerva: With gene therapy, we can remove those genes which we know may lead to sickness or disease, and that the same time, splice in genes with beneficial effects. In other words, we can overcome all sorts of genetic diseases and at the same time add genetic characteristics as desired.
Desmond: Okay, and so if you knew what genes were responsible for making the perfect person, you could implant them in the same way, right?
Minerva: Yes we could. We started with genetic engineering, and in the end, we succeeded in digitizing life itself. Memories. Ideas. Culture. History.
Desmond: There are genes that do that?
Minerva: Yes, and using gene therapy we're able to transplant those genes. The mapping of the human genome was completed millenia ago. As a result, the evolutionary log of the human race lay open to us. You are a being which was not created by Nature. You and the human race.
Desmond: The human race!?
Minerva: That's right. They too are our progeny, carrying on our genetic legacy. They are our brothers, created artificially through the alignment of nucleotides to mimic our genes. But they're different. They're digital. Merely puppets. Pawns in a game.
Desmond: What do you mean?
Minerva: Each person is born with their fate written into their own genetic code... it's unchangeable, immutable... You can't fight your genes. It's fate. Your persona, experiences, triumphs and defeats are nothing but byproducts. The real objective was ensuring that we could generate and manipulate them.
[End stock footage montage]
Desmond: I don't know what the hell my genes look like and I don't care. I operate on instinct.
Minerva: Like an animal? Ha, ha, ha...exactly right. So you see, you're a perfect representative of the masses we need to protect. This is why we chose you. You accepted the fiction we've provided, obeyed our orders and did everything you were told to.
Desmond: I'll decide for myself what to believe and what to pass on!
Minerva: But is that even your own idea? Or something your genes told you? That's the proof of your incompetence, right there. You lack the qualifications to exercise free will.
Desmond: That's not true! I have the right --
Minerva: Does something like a "self" exist inside of you? That which you call "self" serves as nothing more than a mask to cover your own being. "Self" is just something used to preserve those positive emotions that you occasionally feel, under the logic that it would endow you with some sense of strength...
Desmond: That's crap!
Minerva: Oh, what happened? Do you feel lost? Why not try a bit of soul-searching? Don't think you'll find anything, though... The individual is supposed to be weak. Building a legacy involves figuring out what is wanted, and what needs to be done for that goal. Now, we think for you. This is a system for controlling human will and consciousness. We are your guardians after all.
Desmond: You want to control human thought? Human behavior?
Minerva: Of course. Anything can be quantified nowadays. That's what this exercise was designed to prove.
Desmond: So the experiments were a success?
Minerva: Success? Don't be a fool! They're a complete failure! You're on the verge of extinction.
Desmond: What!?
[Begin stock footage montage]
Minerva: You exercise your right to "freedom" and this is the result. All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt. The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems. Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large. The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh. No one is invalidated, but nobody is right. Not even natural selection can take place here. The world is being engulfed in "truth." And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper. We're trying to stop that from happening. It's our responsibility as rulers. Just as in genetics, unnecessary information and memory must be filtered out to stimulate the evolution of the species.
Desmond: And you think you're qualified to decide what's necessary and not?
Minerva: Absolutely.
[End stock footage montage]
Minerva: I think that's enough talk. It's time for the final exercise. We will collect the necessary data from this last fight, then we'll consider the exercise closed.
Desmond: (Holding the Apple of Eden up to Minerva) Think again! I'm through doing what I'm told!
Minerva: Even if a pawn becomes a queen, it is still just a playing piece. (Casually gesturing to the left at a giant robot.) You shall fight Metal Gear!
Desmond: Metal Gear?!
(Boss battle commences.)
Rebecca: Christ, guys, I think something's wrong with the Animus again. Wait, what's this? Shaun! (Holding up a DVD-R) Did you patch in this game data without telling me?
Shaun: I refuse to respond to your completely unfounded accusations, Rebecca. Yet again, you point your fingers at me without even remotely trying to-
Rebecca: The label on this disc says "property of Shaun."
Shaun: Ahem, well...
Fixed.
[tiny]I spent way too much time looking through MGS scripts in order to bring you this.[/tiny]
I will accept the possibility that Desmond is a clone of Big Boss.
Best. Crossover. Ever.
Assassin's Creed III trailer:
Minerva: Ah, I see you have found Eve and have brought the other Pieces of Eden.
Desmond: Yes, we did. It took 71 days, but I found them all. And I'm going to beat you.
Minerva: Silly whelp! This is exactly as we intended all along. It's your genes... they make you predisposed towards violence!
Desmond: What!
Minerva: Are you denying it? Haven't you already killed most of my comrades?
Desmond: That was...
Minerva: I watched your face when you did it. It was filled with the joy of battle.
Desmond: You're wrong!
Minerva: There's a killer inside you... You don't have to deny it. You were created to be that way.
Desmond: Created?
[Begin stock footage montage]
Minerva: With gene therapy, we can remove those genes which we know may lead to sickness or disease, and that the same time, splice in genes with beneficial effects. In other words, we can overcome all sorts of genetic diseases and at the same time add genetic characteristics as desired.
Desmond: Okay, and so if you knew what genes were responsible for making the perfect person, you could implant them in the same way, right?
Minerva: Yes we could. We started with genetic engineering, and in the end, we succeeded in digitizing life itself. Memories. Ideas. Culture. History.
Desmond: There are genes that do that?
Minerva: Yes, and using gene therapy we're able to transplant those genes. The mapping of the human genome was completed millenia ago. As a result, the evolutionary log of the human race lay open to us. You are a being which was not created by Nature. You and the human race.
Desmond: The human race!?
Minerva: That's right. They too are our progeny, carrying on our genetic legacy. They are our brothers, created artificially through the alignment of nucleotides to mimic our genes. But they're different. They're digital. Merely puppets. Pawns in a game.
Desmond: What do you mean?
Minerva: Each person is born with their fate written into their own genetic code... it's unchangeable, immutable... You can't fight your genes. It's fate. Your persona, experiences, triumphs and defeats are nothing but byproducts. The real objective was ensuring that we could generate and manipulate them.
[End stock footage montage]
Desmond: I'll decide for myself what to believe and what to pass on!
Minerva: But is that even your own idea? Or something your genes told you? That's the proof of your incompetence, right there. You lack the qualifications to exercise free will.
Desmond: That's not true! I have the right --
Minerva: Does something like a "self" exist inside of you? That which you call "self" serves as nothing more than a mask to cover your own being. "Self" is just something used to preserve those positive emotions that you occasionally feel, under the logic that it would endow you with some sense of strength...
Desmond: That's crap!
Minerva: Oh, what happened? Do you feel lost? Why not try a bit of soul-searching? Don't think you'll find anything, though... The individual is supposed to be weak. Building a legacy involves figuring out what is wanted, and what needs to be done for that goal. Now, we think for you. We are your guardians after all.
Desmond: You want to control human thought? Human behavior?
Minerva: Of course. Anything can be quantified nowadays. That's what this exercise was designed to prove.
Desmond: So the experiments were a success?
Minerva: Success? Don't be a fool! They're a complete failure! You're on the verge of extinction.
Desmond: What!?
[Begin stock footage montage]
Minerva: You exercise your right to "freedom" and this is the result. All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt. The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems. Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large. The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh. No one is invalidated, but nobody is right. Not even natural selection can take place here. The world is being engulfed in "truth." And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper. We're trying to stop that from happening. It's our responsibility as rulers. Just as in genetics, unnecessary information and memory must be filtered out to stimulate the evolution of the species.
Desmond: And you think you're qualified to decide what's necessary and not?
Minerva: Absolutely.
[End stock footage montage]
Minerva: I think that's enough talk. It's time for the final exercise. We will collect the necessary data from this last fight, then we'll consider the exercise closed.
Desmond: (Holding the Apple of Eden up to Minerva) Think again! I'm through doing what I'm told!
Minerva: Even if a pawn becomes a queen, it is still just a playing piece. (Casually gesturing to the left at a giant robot.) You shall fight Metal Gear!
Desmond: Metal Gear?!
(Boss battle commences.)
Rebecca: Christ, guys, I think something's wrong with the Animus again. Wait, what's this? Shaun! (Holding up a DVD-R) Did you patch in this game data without telling me?
Shaun: I refuse to respond to your completely unfounded accusations, Rebecca. Yet again, you point your fingers at me without even remotely trying to-
Rebecca: The label on this disc says "property of Shaun."
Shaun: Ahem, well...
Fixed.
[tiny]I spent way too much time looking through MGS scripts in order to bring you this.[/tiny]
Please tell me you cut and pasted this from MGS2, and didn't write it yourself.
What!
Created?
The human race!?
What!?
Metal Gear!?
I love Snake's dialogue, he's always got something interesting to add.
AnteCantelope on
0
MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
Desmond is the guy being put back into the animus by new person, probably William M.
Ubisoft has flat out said that the main character of Assassin's Creed is Desmond Miles and no one else. The entire story is his story so there isn't going to be another person reliving his story.
Secondly
Juno has Desmond stab Lucy because she is a Templar. You get hints from this all through out the game and it flat out tells you in The Truth where you talk to subject 16
Desmond: Subject 16?
Subject 16: [laughs] Yes, yes, Subject 17.
Desmond: You’re dead. I saw your blood!
Subject 16: No time. It is far later than you know. Too late to save them.
Desmond: Who?
Subject 16: She is not who you think she is. Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear, it’s already gone.
Desmond: Explain. Please.
Subject 16: Eden. She... in Eden. Find Eve. The Key. Her DNA
Desmond: Tell me!
Subject 16: I cannot... The sun... Your son... Too weak... Must replenish energy...
Desmond: Don’t go!
Subject 16: I am with you 'til the end. Find me, in the darkness.
If I had to guess I think that Abstergo probably already killed all the Assassins and they are just stringing Desmond along. Though it could be that just Lucy is an inside agent.
a) Word of God (that Desmond is the one and only main character of the series) means diddly squat to me. Authors have outright lied before. So have video game designers. Also, see point (e) below.
b) The same conversation has as much evidence supporting my theories as yours. "She" does not necessarily refer to Lucy. It could refer to Minerva or Juno, the former of which at the end of AC2 seemed not so bad (but perhaps was saying what she was saying just to push Desmond in a certain direction), the latter of which seems like kind of a dick (who was potentially doing the same thing). Anyway, Subject 16 may have been referring to one or the other (or both).
c) Subject 16 says "your son." What the fuck does that mean? It wasn't a mistake. Maybe he just means that Desmond is an Adam and his son will usher in a new age of humanity. Or maybe Desmond's son is a much bigger player here. Remember, Desmond experience Ezio's and Altair's memories with Desmond's face - or so we think. Maybe Desmond's son is experiencing Desmond's memories (and by extension Ezio's, Altair's, and Desmond's memories) with his own face. We never really learn whether or not the facial similarities are a result of psychological projection, or if Desmond's ancestor's faces really looked that similar to each other. Or a third option: Centuries of purposeful Assassin inbreeding. (Just kidding.) [Though actually that could make sense.] |I personally think it's psychological projection, though.|
d) "It's far later than you know." Why would that be? Because it's not Desmond! Also, Subject 16 never refers to Desmond as "Desmond."
e) To refer back to point A: There are many people, including (I believe) Kojima that assert that Snake is the main character of Metal Gear Solid 2, even though you only play him for 10% of the game. Which could be the mentality here, even if you spend the game searching for Desmond instead of playing as him. This makes even more sense when you factor in that you actually play as Desmond very little. You play as Altair for 98% of the first game, as Ezio 99% of the second game, and as Ezio again for 95% of Brotherhood. If Desmond Miles is the "main character" while you, the player, have played as him for less than 3 percent out of three (main) games so far (and it's less than a percent of a percent if you consider all the PSP/web/other system games and shit), then it is clear that Ubisoft has a non-standard meaning for "main character." It could just be that they consider Desmond Miles the pivotal character of the game. And considering the mindfuck ending of AC2 and the mindfuck ending of ACB and even the lesser-mindfuck-but-still-mindfucky ending of ACB, I think it is possible that Desmond is of utmost importance to the story, but that we haven't really been Desmond at any point yet.
I think it highly possible and not at all dismissible with the evidence currently in our possession that whoever is being put back into an animus at the end is not Desmond. He is possibly trying to find Desmond. Hell, for all we know, AC2 might have been with you playing as Desmond and ACB may be you playing someone who is reliving Desmond's memories.
It also makes zero sense to me that Juno would have forced Desmond to kill Lucy to push him to "go it alone" and then he'd collapse and be taken to an animus. In fact, I'd say that is a fairly significant piece of evidence suggesting that Desmond would not be simply whisked away to an animus after. Can you please explain Juno's actions, then? She appears to have Desmond stab Lucy in order to drive him away from the group. If he's being put into an animus, she would have failed, no? While that is possible, I find it unlikely - if that memory is even true.
Come to think of it, Metal Gear Solid and Assassin's Creed have a lot more in common than I thought. Meme/Gene/Scene and all that crap.
That's most of the reason I bothered with that post. There's a lot of stuff with genetic design and control of information that pretty easily carries right over into their layered conspiracy stuff.
Don't forget a part of the Assassin's Creed is "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
For all we know, the final boss of the Assassin's Creed series could be Ubisoft itself. Maybe you are really a Templar that the Assassins are trying to understand, and Ubisoft Montreal is the final stronghold of the Assassins. In the future, they've been using various Pieces of Eden to aid in game design and dissemination of video games and they have been analyzing the last descendant of the Templars - you, Desmond Miles Jr. - to make an interesting final video game to hold the entire human race in utopian thrall for the future, because really all along the Assassins are really the bad guys and not the Templars but they hacked the memories to make everything they put in the animus think the opposite, including yourself.
If so, and Ubisoft are really the Assassins, then by the "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted" credo, they can lie to their consumers about who the main character is.
Also:
What if you are really Desmond Miles son, but your papa named you the same thing he was named, and so you were Desmond Miles Jr. (as I suggested above) and so Ubisoft saying "Desmond Miles is the only main character of the series" it would still be true if Desmond Miles Jr. is the main character, it would just be slightly disingenuous to state it that way. THINK ABOUT IT. I mean I'm a "Jr." but I regularly omit that when I introduce myself to people.
i know this game is a mindfuck but I have no idea why people jump to INCEPTION! instead of the far simpler "Desmond was driven back to Assassin HQ and put back in the animus for the player's sake"
The simplest answer is most likely the correct one,
This is why I disagree:
Ubisoft seems hell bent on shitting on Occam's Razor.
In fact, I expect that nothing is true. And as far as the story is concerned, everything is permitted.
i know this game is a mindfuck but I have no idea why people jump to INCEPTION! instead of the far simpler "Desmond was driven back to Assassin HQ and put back in the animus for the player's sake"
The simplest answer is most likely the correct one,
This is why I disagree:
Ubisoft seems hell bent on shitting on Occam's Razor.
In fact, I expect that nothing is true. And as far as the story is concerned, everything is permitted.
If you're going to quote me, at least include the part where I explicitly say that all things aren't equal with this game's story. Anybody that claims to know what the hell is going on at this point is delusional.
Wappadu on
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
Yeah, the end of AC2 was foreshadowed in the dialogue with the doctor in ac1 and so on.
There's only one left turn in the game that wasn't foreshadowed and that's the one at the end of ACB.
In the end, only time will tell who is right, because who knows what a creater will do with their own story, especially given that the main one has left and someone else is doing it now. But as far as predictions go, anybody can make a convincing sounding argument out of anything. And when dealing with predictions you use a sort of occam's razor: any foreshadowing? At all? Any actual ingame support for this or is it all castles in the sky? No?
Then no.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Ubisoft has actually been pretty good about foreshadowing their crazy shit. This comes out of nowhere.
You mean our theories? They aren't out of nowhere. I was kidding about Ubisoft being the final end boss, but the other theories have a ton of supporting evidence.
I actually googled some sites after posting the last few posts and it seems that (post-Assassin's Creed Brotherhood possible spoilers)...
...you aren't playing as Desmond...
...is a fairly common theory at this point. At least, it's not secluded to this thread on PA.
Drez on
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
That theory has zero supporting evidence and is pure speculation. The popularity of a crackpot theory is no indication of it's reliability.
I don't believe it myself, because I'm good at noticing voice actors and I know who that guy sounded like.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
That theory has zero supporting evidence and is pure speculation. The popularity of a crackpot theory is no indication of it's reliability.
I don't believe it myself, because I'm good at noticing voice actors and I know who that guy sounded like.
The guy at the end going "No!" is 100% Noland North. I dunno there is no evidence to support that theory and there is more to say that it isn't true.
Not to mention if you were playing as someone else in an animus following Desmond then why don't you have an animus hud during the Desmond parts?
randombattle on
I never asked for this!
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
There's some emails that counter that theory as well. Supporting evidence that
END GAME SPOILERS
Some people from the assassin's are planning to meet up with them, with those people being implied as experts considering the nature of the advice they are giving Lucy in the emails.
Also
Another Popular Theory that is based on HUGE ASS END GAME SPOILERS INCLUDING THE TRUTH
Most of the Lucy is a templar stuff is only based on the not-Minerva god lady's say so and Subject 16's single line "she is not who you think she is".
Nobody seems to stop and think "wait which she? Lucy or the god thing that controlled a man into stabbing someone against their will?
If the so called evidence for your theory can support multiple interpretations effortlessly, then it's pissweak and not worth thinking about too hard.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I think that, in a game where you play as a guy who relives other people's memories, the idea that you're playing as someone else reliving his memories is just too simple and predictable. Think of the other twists in the series, and tell me if you think that that is really on the same level of mindfuckery. Personally, it was one of the first thigns that popped into my head, and maybe I would have believed it would be a twist at the start of the series, but by now they've gone above and beyond that so many times that it would actually serve as downtime between actual twists.
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Wait what.
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I second this what.
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Right. I think that's very possible.
There's a lot going on here. Desmond clearly didn't want to kill Lucy. You can make Ezio kill civilians and he desynchronizes. In a way, this could be what happened to Desmond. The game ends with him stabbing Lucy. And it is actually implied that someone just desynchronized from an Animus.
Also:
I took the whole Minerva/forced-killing-Lucy speech as her forcing him out of the nest. He'll have to run now because of what he just did, forcing him to use his talents out there, alone. Also, severing him from Lucy, because he was starting to have feelings for her, because...maybe he's supposed to be the next Adam? The way she spoke of "another" "she" means Desmond needs to find a new Eve?
There are a lot of ways this could go.
Alternatively
Afterall if memories go by the DNA in this universe, then Abstergo could have collected a sample from Desmond and used that to artificially follow his memory and try and figure out his next move or infiltrate the Assassin's.
So it could be like this: what Juno actually did was write a program trap into Desmond's genetic memory - so anyone reliving it stabs Lucy - doing something that Desmond himself never did to deliberately desynch any future observers at that point, thus preventing any spying on him and thus any ability to use a tissue sample in the future to figure out what his next move was.
Of course
To me it seems like The Truth video showed quite a different interpretation: Adam and Eve were simply the first ones to say "Fuck this noise" and steal a Piece of Eden to break their slavery to the The One's Who Came Before.
That is interesting and I think perhaps highly probable. I cannot wait for AC3.
Yeah, I am thinking that as well. I mean...
They do not seem benevolent.
I'm really enjoying the multiplayer, but I wish I wasn't so terrible at it.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
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All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Hell, maybe Desmond is reliving his own memories of the past for some reason? (I actually think this is most likely.)
Or maybe Desmond's great, great, grandson is reliving Desmond's memories and just has the same/a similar voice.
Anyway, I don't think recognition of his voice is enough to prove that is Desmond. I mean, hell, this was actively exploited in the buildup to Metal Gear Solid 3's release (and interestingly, MGS and AC both do shout outs to each other rather frequently).
I mean, it's a fair observation, but it doesn't totally prove that it is Desmond. The ending is ambiguous for this exact reason: so we'll all say "wtf?" and talk about it.
I will accept the possibility that Desmond is a clone of Big Boss.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Best. Crossover. Ever.
Assassin's Creed III trailer:
Chest Capture and a new map and probably 1-hour queues. If they really can't fix the matchmaking speed they should at least let our character fool around in the Animus waiting void.
Where are you guys pulling this stuff from?
First of all
Ubisoft has flat out said that the main character of Assassin's Creed is Desmond Miles and no one else. The entire story is his story so there isn't going to be another person reliving his story.
Secondly
If I had to guess I think that Abstergo probably already killed all the Assassins and they are just stringing Desmond along. Though it could be that just Lucy is an inside agent.
I never asked for this!
The simplest answer is most likely the correct one, but that's only with all things being equal. I agree with you, and won't be assuming new layers of the story exist until they're actually shown to me. We have to admit, though, that between "The Truth" and the purposefully confusing ending, all things are not equal.
[tiny]I spent way too much time looking through MGS scripts in order to bring you this.[/tiny]
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Please tell me you cut and pasted this from MGS2, and didn't write it yourself.
Created?
The human race!?
What!?
Metal Gear!?
I love Snake's dialogue, he's always got something interesting to add.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
b) The same conversation has as much evidence supporting my theories as yours. "She" does not necessarily refer to Lucy. It could refer to Minerva or Juno, the former of which at the end of AC2 seemed not so bad (but perhaps was saying what she was saying just to push Desmond in a certain direction), the latter of which seems like kind of a dick (who was potentially doing the same thing). Anyway, Subject 16 may have been referring to one or the other (or both).
c) Subject 16 says "your son." What the fuck does that mean? It wasn't a mistake. Maybe he just means that Desmond is an Adam and his son will usher in a new age of humanity. Or maybe Desmond's son is a much bigger player here. Remember, Desmond experience Ezio's and Altair's memories with Desmond's face - or so we think. Maybe Desmond's son is experiencing Desmond's memories (and by extension Ezio's, Altair's, and Desmond's memories) with his own face. We never really learn whether or not the facial similarities are a result of psychological projection, or if Desmond's ancestor's faces really looked that similar to each other. Or a third option: Centuries of purposeful Assassin inbreeding. (Just kidding.) [Though actually that could make sense.] |I personally think it's psychological projection, though.|
d) "It's far later than you know." Why would that be? Because it's not Desmond! Also, Subject 16 never refers to Desmond as "Desmond."
e) To refer back to point A: There are many people, including (I believe) Kojima that assert that Snake is the main character of Metal Gear Solid 2, even though you only play him for 10% of the game. Which could be the mentality here, even if you spend the game searching for Desmond instead of playing as him. This makes even more sense when you factor in that you actually play as Desmond very little. You play as Altair for 98% of the first game, as Ezio 99% of the second game, and as Ezio again for 95% of Brotherhood. If Desmond Miles is the "main character" while you, the player, have played as him for less than 3 percent out of three (main) games so far (and it's less than a percent of a percent if you consider all the PSP/web/other system games and shit), then it is clear that Ubisoft has a non-standard meaning for "main character." It could just be that they consider Desmond Miles the pivotal character of the game. And considering the mindfuck ending of AC2 and the mindfuck ending of ACB and even the lesser-mindfuck-but-still-mindfucky ending of ACB, I think it is possible that Desmond is of utmost importance to the story, but that we haven't really been Desmond at any point yet.
I think it highly possible and not at all dismissible with the evidence currently in our possession that whoever is being put back into an animus at the end is not Desmond. He is possibly trying to find Desmond. Hell, for all we know, AC2 might have been with you playing as Desmond and ACB may be you playing someone who is reliving Desmond's memories.
It also makes zero sense to me that Juno would have forced Desmond to kill Lucy to push him to "go it alone" and then he'd collapse and be taken to an animus. In fact, I'd say that is a fairly significant piece of evidence suggesting that Desmond would not be simply whisked away to an animus after. Can you please explain Juno's actions, then? She appears to have Desmond stab Lucy in order to drive him away from the group. If he's being put into an animus, she would have failed, no? While that is possible, I find it unlikely - if that memory is even true.
I guess we'll see whenever AC3 comes out.
Gonna go shank some bitches.
Also, "Assassin's Creed" is a perfect anagram for "Metal Gear Solid".
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
For all we know, the final boss of the Assassin's Creed series could be Ubisoft itself. Maybe you are really a Templar that the Assassins are trying to understand, and Ubisoft Montreal is the final stronghold of the Assassins. In the future, they've been using various Pieces of Eden to aid in game design and dissemination of video games and they have been analyzing the last descendant of the Templars - you, Desmond Miles Jr. - to make an interesting final video game to hold the entire human race in utopian thrall for the future, because really all along the Assassins are really the bad guys and not the Templars but they hacked the memories to make everything they put in the animus think the opposite, including yourself.
If so, and Ubisoft are really the Assassins, then by the "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted" credo, they can lie to their consumers about who the main character is.
Also:
What if you are really Desmond Miles son, but your papa named you the same thing he was named, and so you were Desmond Miles Jr. (as I suggested above) and so Ubisoft saying "Desmond Miles is the only main character of the series" it would still be true if Desmond Miles Jr. is the main character, it would just be slightly disingenuous to state it that way. THINK ABOUT IT. I mean I'm a "Jr." but I regularly omit that when I introduce myself to people.
This is why I disagree:
Ubisoft seems hell bent on shitting on Occam's Razor.
In fact, I expect that nothing is true. And as far as the story is concerned, everything is permitted.
If you're going to quote me, at least include the part where I explicitly say that all things aren't equal with this game's story. Anybody that claims to know what the hell is going on at this point is delusional.
There's only one left turn in the game that wasn't foreshadowed and that's the one at the end of ACB.
In the end, only time will tell who is right, because who knows what a creater will do with their own story, especially given that the main one has left and someone else is doing it now. But as far as predictions go, anybody can make a convincing sounding argument out of anything. And when dealing with predictions you use a sort of occam's razor: any foreshadowing? At all? Any actual ingame support for this or is it all castles in the sky? No?
Then no.
You mean our theories? They aren't out of nowhere. I was kidding about Ubisoft being the final end boss, but the other theories have a ton of supporting evidence.
I actually googled some sites after posting the last few posts and it seems that (post-Assassin's Creed Brotherhood possible spoilers)...
...is a fairly common theory at this point. At least, it's not secluded to this thread on PA.
I don't believe it myself, because I'm good at noticing voice actors and I know who that guy sounded like.
The guy at the end going "No!" is 100% Noland North. I dunno there is no evidence to support that theory and there is more to say that it isn't true.
I never asked for this!
END GAME SPOILERS
Also
Another Popular Theory that is based on HUGE ASS END GAME SPOILERS INCLUDING THE TRUTH
Nobody seems to stop and think "wait which she? Lucy or the god thing that controlled a man into stabbing someone against their will?
If the so called evidence for your theory can support multiple interpretations effortlessly, then it's pissweak and not worth thinking about too hard.