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Les [Chat]s des Maldoror

15759616263

Posts

  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    is there anything that shouldn't be compromised on

    Hey, someone coloured your av. Nice!

    LaOs on
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited December 2010
    Preacher wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    All we had to do was reform the filibuster so that you have to actually hold the floor hostage if you want to play that game. Read a phone book, talk about star wars... Whatever. But visibly be the party of time wasting assholes that you truly are.

    And force that vote through without the 60 votes using the nuclear option.

    And when republicans get back in power and use this against you to strip out all the legislation you put up, you'll see why its a lose lose situation. The system is broken yes, but its broken both ways.

    No, it isn't. The filibuster has NEVER. EVER. been used like it is being used right now. You should only use it on things of note, where massive ideological differences with significant outcomes are at stake. And it WILL return to that when you have to really do it and not just threaten it.

    Right of course I mean its not like it was just demonstrated how you can use it to absolutely destroy the other parties agenda...
    I don't want this tool as it currently exists in EITHER hand. If you are going to stall a bill, stand on the floor and keep fucking talking. Make it national news that the senate is stalled because senator smith won't shut up.

    That's what I want. Truly challenge the will of the senators to put their credibility and name on the line for doing something so drastic as blocking the ability for a majority vote.

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »

    just like how its not all trolls on the horde, or not all dwarves on the alliance, or not even all worgen

    I wonder now if you did a racial breakdown of bad guys if one side has more representation then the other. Like in my mind I think more horde races are generic bad guys in the game (undead, orcs, now goblins) then allies, even with humans being a lot of default pirate bandits.

    gonna have to call this for the horde I believe

    unless you don't count all undead as "forsaken"

    I hate myself for knowing this

    technically, not all undead are forsaken

    thats my point

    but still i think it comes down that more "horde" races are evil guys than alliance almost entirely because of trolls

    and i guess bloodelves to some extent

    Arch on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Preacher wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »

    just like how its not all trolls on the horde, or not all dwarves on the alliance, or not even all worgen

    I wonder now if you did a racial breakdown of bad guys if one side has more representation then the other. Like in my mind I think more horde races are generic bad guys in the game (undead, orcs, now goblins) then allies, even with humans being a lot of default pirate bandits.

    gonna have to call this for the horde I believe

    unless you don't count all undead as "forsaken"

    Yeah even giving up undead, the models that look like the undead are still prevalent (more so now that live strat is now populated by undead guys). Trolls alone are an enemy repeatedly for both sides.

    Prior to Cata, most of the major lore derives from alliance stories and characters, something worth noting.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    ]If you never call someone on their threats how do you know if they'll ever really follow through?

    I think that is the issue some people are having with this.

    Playing chicken with the middle class and people near poverty is a bad fucking idea. I mean its all well and good for a bunch of white people who aren't about to be homeless to talk big about this, but quite another when its hand to mouth hope I can pay rent this month folks about to get fucked for you idealogical stand.

    Preacher on
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Arivia wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    is there anything that shouldn't be compromised on

    Genocide? "Okay, Hitler, you want to kill all the Jews and we want you to kill none of the Jews. Let's compromise and kill half the Jews."

    *grumble*

    should have just decimated them all

    Killed one tenth of each Jew? [/Semantic Asshole]

    RMS Oceanic on
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited December 2010
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    I don't hate Obama. But to me it seems like he has not just turned his back on his base. Something you would never see the Republicans do. Hell look at the antiabortion shit that gets on the ballot here every year to pull out that base. But he also is going against popular opinion. Going against the numbers that these tax cuts have not helped but in the end have hurt and so on.

    I know change is incremental. I fully understand we aren't going to become a utopia or hell even semi-sane over night. But some things seem like they should be obvious. Most of the population are willing to give up their tax breaks if it means the rich do as well.

    But in general I would like for certain steps to at least try to be taken even if in the end they are blocked by the Republicans because it gives you ammunition for the elections. I see it is that the Democrats as a whole just don't understand how to play the game. Sure they don't have the votes to get cloture. Well you know what, make the Republicans who have called the filibuster actually filibuster. Make them sit there and speak until they can't anymore to block the vote. Not just call or threaten the action making the Democrats back down.

    Obama I am disappointed for what seems like a deafness to the needs of the nation and the defeatism. I am furious he basically gives the Republicans what they want but doesn't go to his own party or bring them into the negotiations. I am angry at him not using his power to twist arms or to stand up for his promises. But really I don't hate him. But I am not happy.

    The GOP constantly turns on their base. Every year it's yet another half-assed antiabortion bill or flag burning bill specifically engineered to not pass. Every tax cut is targeted at the very wealthy and guess who makes up the vast ranks of the GOP voting bloc (it is not the very wealthy; the very wealthy are overwhelmingly socially liberal)? The entire basis for the "Tea Party Movement" is specifically that the GOP has consistently failed to follow through on the (admittedly stupid and impractical) governmental ideals that the GOP hoi polloi have settled on.

    The age of the nonsensical filibuster is behind us. Even if the majority leader called for such a thing, it wouldn't be a dude combatively reading the phone book. it would just play out exactly as the health care thing played out - a chamber filled with democrats and single republicans taking shifts presenting the latest show and tell from the Cato Institute or the American Entrepeneurial Institute or whatever and insisting that "WE NEED TO DEBATE THIS GUYS WE HAVE NOT HEARD ALL THE ARGUMENTS YET LET'S NOT RUSH INTO ANYTHING" That turned out to not be damning or unpopular at all with the great majority of americans. mostly they wondered why the democrats couldn't get anything done with the largest majority in decades.

    it would be nice if obama had the luxury of insisting on only what is good for the nation. but he doesn't. he has to compromise with what the nation wants, and has to negotiatiate with entrenched power blocs. it's a difficult job but i honestly cannot conceive of anyone who could be doing a better job given the political climate.

    Irond Will on
    Wqdwp8l.png
  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Will I disagree with you. It became pretty clear when the votes for the stimulus were straight down party lines. The Republicans came out and said they will do everything in their power to block legislation. The town halls for health care, the major votes being strictly down party lines on pretty much everything. It was bright as day.

    I agree their should be negotiation thats politics. But when you have the upper hand in votes and in public backing you should go with everything you want and work from there. He tended to go, drop all but the minimal, give the Republicans everything they wanted and still tended not to pull any from their side.

    I am sorry Will I think you are rallying against the wrong thing here. This is just the latest of having the upper hand. The people were with him to drop the bush tax cuts if it came to that. His party was with him. Instead he sets up an agreement that not only extends what he has platformed against. It extends them to end right at the Presidential election so that the Republicans can hammer him again and again for not making them permanent or if he even says one thing about letting them slip or repealing them.

    He has been outplayed or he just can't play the game. At this point letting the Republicans run the game for the last two years has basically what has buried him. And he lost the house partially because of it. And also because he has been horrible as Synd said at presenting the things he has done.

    Really with this tax thing the house passed an extension for the middle class and small businesses while cutting out those top 3%. If he was smart he would of pressed hard on the Senate for this. And when it didn't pass with a full vote of 58 to 42 he could of smeared it all over the Republicans but didn't.

    Politics is as much about what you accomplish as it is tactics and holding power and he fucking sucks at it.

    Mazzyx on
    03x29di.png
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    the bloodelves are more evil than the trolls, I think, with the kidnapped naruu and all

    Senjutsu on
    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bama wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »

    just like how its not all trolls on the horde, or not all dwarves on the alliance, or not even all worgen

    I wonder now if you did a racial breakdown of bad guys if one side has more representation then the other. Like in my mind I think more horde races are generic bad guys in the game (undead, orcs, now goblins) then allies, even with humans being a lot of default pirate bandits.
    Well I mean the big bad from the last expansion was human. IIRC very few if any scourge grunts looked like the Forsaken.

    True, and honestly Night Elves are responsbile for most of the worlds issues in WoW, so while the horde races are representative of a lot of bad guys, it wasn't one of their leaders races that fucked up the world.

    Preacher on
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  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited December 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    is there anything that shouldn't be compromised on

    well

    the question actually is

    "what is the alternative to compromise"

    Irond Will on
    Wqdwp8l.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    What the fuck are all these long and thought out posts doing in [chat]?

    The wikileaks thread is getting stupid.

    OMG an australian official was feeding the CIA information! Why does America had everyone outside their county!?

    Styrofoam Sammich on
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2010
    Preacher wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    ]If you never call someone on their threats how do you know if they'll ever really follow through?

    I think that is the issue some people are having with this.

    Playing chicken with the middle class and people near poverty is a bad fucking idea. I mean its all well and good for a bunch of white people who aren't about to be homeless to talk big about this, but quite another when its hand to mouth hope I can pay rent this month folks about to get fucked for you idealogical stand.

    Make them filibuster and be the people that are actively on CSPAN reading a phonebook to block that legislation.

    Maybe they'll do it and get fucking reamed. Maybe they'll back down because of the issues you just identified.

    Or maybe it doesn't matter what happens cause it nothing will change

    So It Goes on
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think the point is that looking at "go kill X" quests I think there are more "go kill X guys that are also horde races" quests

    Arch on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    the bloodelves are more evil than the trolls, I think, with the kidnapped naruu and all

    Hey they said they're sorry ok?

    Styrofoam Sammich on
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    the bloodelves are more evil than the trolls, I think, with the kidnapped naruu and all
    I was so pissed that Blood Elves were introduced to the Horde. Prior to the battle of Undercity, though, I'd say Forsaken were the most evil playable race and that whole story thread was Blizzard leaping furiously out of the corner they had written themselves into.

    Bama on
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    is there anything that shouldn't be compromised on

    well

    the question actually is

    "what is the alternative to compromise"

    Calling people on their bluffs - could improve negotiating power in the future

    Political fallout for both sides

    Maybe Americans see that some politicians have a spine

    So It Goes on
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    All we had to do was reform the filibuster so that you have to actually hold the floor hostage if you want to play that game. Read a phone book, talk about star wars... Whatever. But visibly be the party of time wasting assholes that you truly are.

    And force that vote through without the 60 votes using the nuclear option.

    it wouldn't (and didn't!) play out that way.

    and eliminating the filibuster probably wouldn't have cleared the senate. too many members's jobs and power are predicated on it.

    Irond Will on
    Wqdwp8l.png
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    ]If you never call someone on their threats how do you know if they'll ever really follow through?

    I think that is the issue some people are having with this.

    Playing chicken with the middle class and people near poverty is a bad fucking idea. I mean its all well and good for a bunch of white people who aren't about to be homeless to talk big about this, but quite another when its hand to mouth hope I can pay rent this month folks about to get fucked for you idealogical stand.

    Make them filibuster and be the people that are actively on CSPAN reading a phonebook to block that legislation.

    Maybe they'll do it and get fucking reamed. Maybe they'll back down because of the issues you just identified.

    Or maybe it doesn't matter what happens cause it nothing will change

    It matters to someone who can't feed themselves Sig. Again you aren't in poverty, so you can talk about what they should do knowing EITHER WAY IT WILL DO NOTHING TO YOU!

    Preacher on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bama wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    the bloodelves are more evil than the trolls, I think, with the kidnapped naruu and all
    I was so pissed that Blood Elves were introduced to the Horde. Prior to the battle of Undercity, though, I'd say Forsaken were the most evil playable race and that whole story thread was Blizzard leaping furiously out of the corner they had written themselves into.

    If you play the zones in the north eastern kingdoms you find the forsaken are still really really really fucking evil.

    Horde only Sylvanas raid inc with Koltira as the new leader.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    this is depressing

    Variable on
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  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    is there anything that shouldn't be compromised on
    civil rights?

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bama wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    the bloodelves are more evil than the trolls, I think, with the kidnapped naruu and all
    I was so pissed that Blood Elves were introduced to the Horde. Prior to the battle of Undercity, though, I'd say Forsaken were the most evil playable race and that whole story thread was Blizzard leaping furiously out of the corner they had written themselves into.

    Forsaken are still super damn evil, even more so in Cata. I think they are setting Sylvannas up to be the next end boss of an expansion.

    Preacher on
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  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bama wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    the bloodelves are more evil than the trolls, I think, with the kidnapped naruu and all
    I was so pissed that Blood Elves were introduced to the Horde. Prior to the battle of Undercity, though, I'd say Forsaken were the most evil playable race and that whole story thread was Blizzard leaping furiously out of the corner they had written themselves into.

    If you play the zones in the north eastern kingdoms you find the forsaken are still really really really fucking evil.

    Horde only Sylvanas raid inc with Koltira as the new leader.

    Still doubt this line of thought

    Arch on
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    ]If you never call someone on their threats how do you know if they'll ever really follow through?

    I think that is the issue some people are having with this.

    Playing chicken with the middle class and people near poverty is a bad fucking idea. I mean its all well and good for a bunch of white people who aren't about to be homeless to talk big about this, but quite another when its hand to mouth hope I can pay rent this month folks about to get fucked for you idealogical stand.

    Make them filibuster and be the people that are actively on CSPAN reading a phonebook to block that legislation.

    Maybe they'll do it and get fucking reamed. Maybe they'll back down because of the issues you just identified.

    Or maybe it doesn't matter what happens cause it nothing will change

    Or maybe it will just get spun as "Extremist Obama's unwillingness to reach across the aisle has forced us to defend america this way".

    It's not like the Democrats are going to suddenly become any good at PR when the Republicans inevitably carried through on the threat. It was a win-win scenario as far as the right was concerned, the only question was whether Obama wanted to risk pissing off the base with compromise or the moderates with idealist gridlock.

    The base at least might be convinced that re-electing Obama is a better choice than putting some idiot like Palin in office; the moderates are more likely to defect to the Republican ticket

    Senjutsu on
    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • AriviaArivia Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Arivia wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    is there anything that shouldn't be compromised on

    Genocide? "Okay, Hitler, you want to kill all the Jews and we want you to kill none of the Jews. Let's compromise and kill half the Jews."

    *grumble*

    should have just decimated them all

    Killed one tenth of each Jew? [/Semantic Asshole]

    every tenth, yes, that would be a good compromise (and that was my joke! :P)

    I am stuck with a boring classmate babbling at me, argh

    Arivia on
    huntresssig.jpg
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    I think the point is that looking at "go kill X" quests I think there are more "go kill X guys that are also horde races" quests
    It's gonna be hard to beat trolls, but don't forget about the Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught/Whatever.

    Bama on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    All we had to do was reform the filibuster so that you have to actually hold the floor hostage if you want to play that game. Read a phone book, talk about star wars... Whatever. But visibly be the party of time wasting assholes that you truly are.

    And force that vote through without the 60 votes using the nuclear option.

    it wouldn't (and didn't!) play out that way.

    and eliminating the filibuster probably wouldn't have cleared the senate. too many members's jobs and power are predicated on it.

    Biden could declare the rule unconstitutional, run it by the parliamentarian who would agree, and then have it stricken from senate procedure.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2010
    Preacher wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    ]If you never call someone on their threats how do you know if they'll ever really follow through?

    I think that is the issue some people are having with this.

    Playing chicken with the middle class and people near poverty is a bad fucking idea. I mean its all well and good for a bunch of white people who aren't about to be homeless to talk big about this, but quite another when its hand to mouth hope I can pay rent this month folks about to get fucked for you idealogical stand.

    Make them filibuster and be the people that are actively on CSPAN reading a phonebook to block that legislation.

    Maybe they'll do it and get fucking reamed. Maybe they'll back down because of the issues you just identified.

    Or maybe it doesn't matter what happens cause it nothing will change

    It matters to someone who can't feed themselves Sig. Again you aren't in poverty, so you can talk about what they should do knowing EITHER WAY IT WILL DO NOTHING TO YOU!

    Is there a particular reason to reference my personal wealth level during this discussion about political maneuvering

    Do you think that is fucking relevant

    So It Goes on
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I've said for a while America needs an equivalent of the Parliament Act.

    The tl;dr is that when the two houses are repeatedly at an impasse, the powers of this act can be used and the proposal passed into law without passing both houses, albeit with a time delay.

    RMS Oceanic on
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bama wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    I think the point is that looking at "go kill X" quests I think there are more "go kill X guys that are also horde races" quests
    It's gonna be hard to beat trolls, but don't forget about the Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught/Whatever.

    Yeah thats true, I forgot about them in Lich King. And I guess all the death cults kind of pull from all races

    Arch on
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bama wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    the bloodelves are more evil than the trolls, I think, with the kidnapped naruu and all
    I was so pissed that Blood Elves were introduced to the Horde. Prior to the battle of Undercity, though, I'd say Forsaken were the most evil playable race and that whole story thread was Blizzard leaping furiously out of the corner they had written themselves into.

    If you play the zones in the north eastern kingdoms you find the forsaken are still really really really fucking evil.

    Horde only Sylvanas raid inc with Koltira as the new leader.
    These are cata quests? God damn it I was just getting ok w/ Forsaken and now they do this. Horde should just give up on Eastern Kingdoms altogether.

    Bama on
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2010
    MikeMan wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    is there anything that shouldn't be compromised on
    civil rights?

    Yeah! Like gay people in the mil

    oh wait

    So It Goes on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    In all fairness to democrats, republicans have an entire news station dedicated to spinning facts for them 24/7. The liberal media is a made up concept by republicans in the 90s. The media plays center right, with fox news goose stepping the way.

    Outside of creating a new media channel to do the opposite the noise is proudly republican in the american media.

    Preacher on
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  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    fairly certain cataclysm is trying to gear the horde up to be more "evil" than they have been previously

    Arch on
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited December 2010
    Considering myself as a moderate (or centrist? I'm not sure which is more appropriate), I agree with this call for pragmatism.

    This said, I think the complaint about Obama I'd agree most with is that he hasn't really communicated what he's done or tried to do effectively, and why these are/would be good. Either that or the media are so entrenched in their narrative that any attempt he makes to do so gets ignored. Short of buying Fox News and encouraging a new editorial direction, I'm not sure how to combat this.

    I dunno. Have you watched the presidential weekly addresses or the white house whiteboard things? I mean, obama has gone berserk in doing congressional addresses to the point where even devotees have stopped watching them.

    I'm not really sure what he could have done differently. The media has been really problematic for years now. They chafed at being manipulated by clinton and constructed a lot of safeguards, and then kind of defensively recoiled from the controlled messaging of the Obama campaign. And at this point news outlets are divvied up into demographic feifdoms to the degree that city mice reading the NYT will be receiving fundamentally different information than flyover wide-loads watching fox news who will be receiving different information from the college kids and hippies reading the huffington post.

    Irond Will on
    Wqdwp8l.png
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    We'll see how this looks in another year

    after the GOP has greater numbers and knows they can blackmail the president anytime they want

    Because the implications of this compromise politically are just starting

    nexuscrawler on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Mike you're not going to get a political argument from gooey

    because liberal dogpile echo chamber

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bama wrote: »
    These are cata quests? God damn it I was just getting ok w/ Forsaken and now they do this. Horde should just give up on Eastern Kingdoms altogether.

    Not directly cata, just part of the new old world expansion. Basically when you do western plague lands you learn that Sylvannas is off her fucking rocker.

    Preacher on
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  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I've said for a while America needs an equivalent of the Parliament Act.

    The tl;dr is that when the two houses are repeatedly at an impasse, the powers of this act can be used and the proposal passed into law without passing both houses, albeit with a time delay.

    I am generally of the opinion that the Westminster system of parliamentary rule is superior to the American model in a number of ways. It's far more resistant to polarization and gridlock.

    Senjutsu on
    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
This discussion has been closed.