Options

Generic Interactive Tabletop Simulator - Looking for coders!

11011121416

Posts

  • Options
    OctobotOctobot Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    tau4.png

    opinions on a black outline vs non black outline.

    Octobot on
  • Options
    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I like the black outlines, but than everything needs them.

    So, what armies/units haven't been done yet?

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
  • Options
    OctobotOctobot Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    i did a version with black outline since it seemed to fit more with the other tau (the other armies have black outline aswell but its not as noticeable)

    while i was waiting for more feedback on the devilfish i started working on the piranha
    piranha.png

    Octobot on
  • Options
    Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Octobot wrote:
    i did a version with black outline since it seemed to fit more with the other tau (the other armies have black outline aswell but its not as noticeable)

    while i was waiting for more feedback on the devilfish i started working on the piranha
    piranha.png

    Gorgeous.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • Options
    HerothHeroth Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    t; Octobot: Very nice work, both of those are awesome. i prefer the black outline personally.

    t; Zetetic Elench: The stealth suits look cool as do the rest of them, the shield drone looks nice and the pathfinders, awesome.

    t; JamSessionEin: I like the assassins, very good work on all of'em.

    Heroth on
    1Gn4PNI.png
  • Options
    AsumaAsuma Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    All the sprite work has been fucking gorgeous. As a 40K player I'm really looking forward to seeing the final result.

    Asuma on
    "Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
  • Options
    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    My only concern, as has been this whole time, is that the sprites will tend to look a bit 'what?' unless they're rotated at ninety degree angles due to the simple way they have to be displayed.

    i.e. this example.jpg becomes this.

    Ein on
  • Options
    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    My only concern, as has been this whole time, is that the sprites will tend to look a bit 'what?' unless they're rotated at ninety degree angles due to the simple way they have to be displayed.

    i.e. this example.jpg becomes this.

    If you were to draw a version of the 45-degree tilted thingy, then you could rotate that 90 degrees and have good-looking images at every 45 degree angle. You'd probably have to pair them up so that the program knows that a 45 degree turn for Sprite 1 = a 0 degree turn for Sprite 2, but it could work (might be too much of a hassle to draw doubles of each sprite and code that, though.)

    INeedNoSalt on
  • Options
    Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    My only concern, as has been this whole time, is that the sprites will tend to look a bit 'what?' unless they're rotated at ninety degree angles due to the simple way they have to be displayed.

    i.e. this example.jpg becomes this.
    This is what I've been thinking the entire time I've been working on the Tau. They look much better if you anti-alias them a little, but... I'm not sure about that.

    I do keep thinking how nice it would be if we could magically integrate something like hq4x, though.
    t; Zetetic Elench: The stealth suits look cool as do the rest of them, the shield drone looks nice and the pathfinders, awesome.
    Thanks. Your stuff looks good too - we'll have a Tau army sheet in no time!

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • Options
    OctobotOctobot Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    hmm hopefully there is a solution that doesnt involve drawing each item at 45 degrees (but i guess that wouldnt be too bad if it comes to that.)

    ok last update for the night i think.

    tau5.png

    still have a skyray to do, are there other variations/weapons/gear that need to be done (my only experience with 40k has been dawn of war). also does the hatches open devilfish seem ok? any other changes or suggestions/etc?

    Octobot on
  • Options
    RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Good news everyone!

    I was somewhat concerned by the possiblity that these awesome sprites would look bad when rotated (which would be the case the majority of the time in a game). So I spent an hour putting together a little demo piece to see how rotation / scaling in Flash affects them.

    The results are very positive. While JPEGs do indeed look like ass when rotated that is mostly a result of either their compression artifact or a bad rotation algorithm (eg: MSPaint). PNGs look quite nice even rotated or scaled in Flash.

    http://akajimmy.net/demo/resizeTest.swf

    You need to save that to your local drive then double click on it. Requires Flash player 9 but should work fine on PC or Mac (can't remember if the player 9 for linux is out yet)

    Note: If you run that out of the web page it will give you a flash security error.

    Put the filename to your image in the bar and press enter. Left / right rotate. Up / down scale. You can also resize the window.

    RiemannLives on
    Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
  • Options
    Mongrel IdiotMongrel Idiot Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Hoooooooolyyyyyyyyy shit, dude, that is awesome.

    You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. Well done.

    Mongrel Idiot on
  • Options
    DayspringDayspring the Phoenician Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Huzzah!

    Dayspring on
    My Warhammer stuff online: Youtube Twitter Insta
  • Options
    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I was also messing around with Flash a bit - the 'Trace Bitmap' function converts the pixel contents of an image into vector graphics, which can be scaled and rotated without graphical hiccups. Of course, the process involves Flash, which a lot of people do not have, and the results are not perfect as it just interpolates from pixel data. It ends up looking a bit better than .png when things are zoomed in, but it's negligible at 100%.

    Example:

    swftest.jpg

    .png on the left, vector (.swf) on the right. Top's at 100%, bottom's at 200%.

    It'd be cool if we could get the application to in some way automate this procedure, but it's probably not necessary.

    Ein on
  • Options
    OctobotOctobot Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Phew! great work on the scaling/rotation ReimannLives & JamSessionEin.
    Its good to know that they sprites will look as great in the game as they are shaping up so far.

    More work on the tau. i think i've got all the vehicles now(if i am missing somthing let me know).
    Skyray is basically done, have two versions of line colours to see which allowed the missle 'wings' to stand out best.

    skyray.png

    I think ill try a crisis suit next or mabye some kroot.

    Octobot on
  • Options
    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2007
    This has been bugging me for a bit, and I am not sure if we should bother, but I fear this will come up in game. Perhaps you all can help me work out a problem I see with top down view.

    How does one establish Line Of Sight, based on Height, in a top down view?

    Obviously if it is infinitely tall such as a forest or CC we won't have to bother. But with a range of terrain, usually a series of hills, there will be some difficult questions of intervening terrain that are usually solved by getting a "model's eye view."

    Thoughts?

    ElderCat on
    IWBRLjC.png
  • Options
    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    This is the sort of thing where players have to establish the height values of terrain beforehand, I think.

    I.e. before deployment - 'That hill is size 1? Size 2? We gonna call that blocking LoS?'

    It doesn't seem that big of a problem. The only thing I consider almost impossible at the moment is multiple-floor buildings, but who knows. I could picture a 'toggle up one level' feature - that might be cool for elevated cityfights.

    Ein on
  • Options
    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    First, Trees and combats are not infinitely tall; you can indeed see and shoot over them in the current edition of 40K. Our saving grace may well be the size category system, but I would rather prefer we had something generic that could cope with many systems, as that is what the underlying game is supposed to do...

    My dream is of three dimensional, or near 3-D, height maps being used as the basis for terrain like hills and such, plus a true line of sight system using something similar to ray-tracing to determine LoS, but I do have an inkling of how unspeakably difficult that could become...

    Of course, once you have the raw data of whether or not a model has LoS or not, you need a way to represent that in an overhead view. This can be as hard as you want it to be, but I think an overlay of a stylised eye on things your (selected) unit can see would be best to start with...

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • Options
    RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    LOS is a tricky subject but it can be done well even in top down 2d. When we get to that point my ideal case would be to do something like the Close Combat games.

    Multi-level structures I really don't know about at this point. Have to tackle that when the time comes. Obviously that kind of thing is easier to represent in 3d or even isometric 2d but both of those approaches are regretebly far beyond the scale of what I am willing to take on. Especially when it comes to asset creation.

    RiemannLives on
    Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
  • Options
    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2007
    Good to know about trees and CC, now they work like everything else.

    Is there a way to tag a terrain piece with a certain size? That would solve most issues with the way GW suggests you do terrain features. IE: just pretend that there are tons of trees on this green base that are all Size 2.

    I have never played a game of 40K with multi level buildings that worked well. I understand the Cities of Death codex has rules for it, but I think that we can do without it in GITS.

    ElderCat on
    IWBRLjC.png
  • Options
    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Could just cheat and put a numeral on top of a piece of cover.

    Der Waffle Mous on
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • Options
    AcidSerraAcidSerra Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I think most people are going to bring up the systems they know so... What about hte Battletech system? Just modified so that trees and other objects actually have an independant height.

    Multi-tiered buildings isn't incredibly hard, and you may want it in order to keep your ability to be generic. This may be a fair bit of coding, but basically, whenever a unit enters a "building" all "floors" and "ceilings" above the unit are not rendered. You would of course need a way of selecting them, besides straight clicking on the unit, but thats not a bad idea all around either.

    AcidSerra on
  • Options
    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    AcidSerra wrote:
    I think most people are going to bring up the systems they know so... What about hte Battletech system? Just modified so that trees and other objects actually have an independant height.

    Multi-tiered buildings isn't incredibly hard, and you may want it in order to keep your ability to be generic. This may be a fair bit of coding, but basically, whenever a unit enters a "building" all "floors" and "ceilings" above the unit are not rendered. You would of course need a way of selecting them, besides straight clicking on the unit, but thats not a bad idea all around either.

    The thing about multi-level buildings, at least as it pertains to 40k, is that squads and units can be spread out between floors. It would be interesting to have two boards technically overlaid on eachother that you can toggle through.

    It's probably a pain to code, so I wouldn't be surprised if nothing comes of the idea and people are restricted, at least for the time being, to a single plane. (Not mentioning hills or other elevated structures.)

    Ein on
  • Options
    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I was also messing around with Flash a bit - the 'Trace Bitmap' function converts the pixel contents of an image into vector graphics, which can be scaled and rotated without graphical hiccups. Of course, the process involves Flash, which a lot of people do not have, and the results are not perfect as it just interpolates from pixel data. It ends up looking a bit better than .png when things are zoomed in, but it's negligible at 100%.

    Example:

    swftest.jpg

    .png on the left, vector (.swf) on the right. Top's at 100%, bottom's at 200%.

    It'd be cool if we could get the application to in some way automate this procedure, but it's probably not necessary.

    Wow holy crap my guardsmen look hot.

    Librarian's ghost on
    (Switch Friend Code) SW-4910-9735-6014(PSN) timspork (Steam) timspork (XBox) Timspork


  • Options
    OctobotOctobot Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    some work from before the forum went down

    crisis.png

    first go at crisis suit and some kroot work in progress (keeping kroot spindley without looking too stickmen is giving me a hard time).

    Octobot on
  • Options
    TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Those Tau vehicles are TOP NOTCH! Keep up the good work! As soon as a beta version of this simulator comes out, I wanna help test it haha.

    TheBog on
  • Options
    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Oh wow Octobot those battle suits are sexy.

    Much better than mine even.

    Uriel on
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    This *is* a program for gaming in general, right? Not just warhammer? So anyone could get on this and start up D&D, Eberron, L5R, White Wolf, any of that?

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    This *is* a program for gaming in general, right? Not just warhammer? So anyone could get on this and start up D&D, Eberron, L5R, White Wolf, any of that?

    Indeed. The only requirement for other games is that somebody has to make the sprite art for it, but you can realistically play whatever the hell you want - there are no rules built in or anything, only a general board mechanism, chat room functionality, dice generators, and tools like markers, templates, rulers, etc. You supply the art, a couple people, and you all use the same rules to play the game.

    Reimann's been particularly busy with work the past week or so, I think, but I'm hoping we'll have something to show of the actual application soon.

    Ein on
  • Options
    UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    This *is* a program for gaming in general, right? Not just warhammer? So anyone could get on this and start up D&D, Eberron, L5R, White Wolf, any of that?

    OP:
    The overall aim of the project is a fairly open-ended sandbox environment for players to play tabletop games on. I'm sure most of you can figure out the kinds of things it might be used to simulate, but we won't go into any sort of explicit details on that. What I will say is that it is an entirely volunteer project, and this thread is an open invitation to participation.

    The idea is simple - We're aiming to create a program environment where players can chat with one another, set up tables, and play whatever games with whatever rules they care to. To facilitate this, the application will come with a variety of tools - movement tools, measurement tools, dicing tools, all the stuff that your standard tabletop simulator might require. The interface is going to be a fairly visual one - players will be able to upload and play with their own two-dimensional sprites, viewed in a top-down angle, on the table. These uploaded sprites will then (hopefully) be added to an overall sorted 'pool' of sprites that the application can use, and can then be used at a later date by other players.

    Edit: Beat by Jam, but I'm top of the page so I wins.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Yeah, I remember reading that. But after seeing...what, 22 pages of fully Warhammer focused content, I was beginning to wonder if the focus had changed.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    The focus can never, will never change, as long as we don't want to be sued, anyway :-P

    Seriously, the program is capable, it's just that no-one seems very interested in making sprites for other games at the moment...

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • Options
    AcidSerraAcidSerra Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Most basically, we have alot of Warhammer fans, and with the miniatures it's a good starting point because you don't have to imagine much. I'm sure once we've basically run out of Warhammer content to add people will start to moving on to their other fandoms. Warmachine maybe. Don't know if anyone is interested in B-tech, been done a few too many times.

    AcidSerra on
  • Options
    UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Hell, this whole forum was practically built on Warhammer. :P

    Risk might be fun to ply with GITS, along with other boardgames.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • Options
    AcidSerraAcidSerra Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Even better, risk with more interesting unit designs. I mean the little french soldiers are okay... but it would be awesome to have some other ideas for designs.

    AcidSerra on
  • Options
    WoodroezWoodroez Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    BIG FRENCH SOLDIERS

    But really gentlemen, as someone who isn't in tabletop gaming and does not look forward to the cash investment it would take to get into it, this seems like it would be an awesome way to get one's feet wet. Just get a rulebook and WAAGH! on.

    Keep up the good work.

    Woodroez on
    858213-butcher-2.jpg
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Maybe I should check out this Warhammer thing...

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    So all the rules are going to be handled outside of the program? I was under the impression you downloaded a ruleset from somewhere and loaded that up into the game, which then worked out what you had to roll and such, in a similar way to FUMBBL. This would be more like OpenRPG where the players will each need to have a rulebook by them as they play?

    SUPERSUGA on
  • Options
    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    SUPERSUGA wrote: »
    So all the rules are going to be handled outside of the program? I was under the impression you downloaded a ruleset from somewhere and loaded that up into the game, which then worked out what you had to roll and such, in a similar way to FUMBBL. This would be more like OpenRPG where the players will each need to have a rulebook by them as they play?

    Yeah, that's the general idea.

    Implementing the rules into the game would be a tremendous pain in the ass, and would require a large amount of specifics for each unit - for example, does that tyranid get fleet of foot? Instead it's more going to be a tabletop sandbox with the rules provided and monitored by the players.

    Ein on
  • Options
    TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Not to mention including rules in with this thing would mean you don't need to have the rulebook which means Games Workshop is gonna take your ass down since you're giving out their material for free.

    TheBog on
Sign In or Register to comment.