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Generic Interactive Tabletop Simulator - Looking for coders!

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    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2007
    What TheBog is trying to say is that, we here at GITS do not condone pirating. We are just interested in providing a simulated tabletop, we expect you to buy all rulebooks and supplements required to play, just as you would on a real tabletop.

    ElderCat on
    IWBRLjC.png
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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Right, right. I was getting confused because of how FUMBBL works but I take it they're able to include the rules because GW have made the BB rulebook free to all, right?

    SUPERSUGA on
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    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2007
    I guess that would be THEIR point of view, I don't know if GW would agree, but thats a good defense.

    ElderCat on
    IWBRLjC.png
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    UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    ElderCat wrote: »
    What TheBog is trying to say is that, we here at GITS do not condone pirating. We are just interested in providing a simulated tabletop, we expect you to buy all rulebooks and supplements required to play, just as you would on a real tabletop.

    Right, the program is simply a playing field (how large of one, I haven't heard specified) to place & move sprites upon with virtual dice. It's for people who want to play games and enjoy the rulebooks, but simply don't have reasonable access to gaming tables or a justifiable model budget.

    So in a way this project can be thought of as a 'home for the underdogs'...

    OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
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    AcidSerraAcidSerra Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    So many bits, it's starting to look like a torrent. =P

    Yeah, I basically thought it would be good for people who just can't ever seem to find a local table top gaming group. And alos pwople with insanely small budgets.

    AcidSerra on
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Or for people like me who really wants a Witchhunters army, and have plenty of models for it, but since it's in line behind my IG, Nids, Necrons, and SMs, if I want to play it in the next five years, I need an alternative venue.

    Anyway, i was just hoping to stir things up with this thread. It's been pretty quiet lately. I want to hear about progress! I want to see beautiful sprites! I want a head of luxurious hair!

    Gabriel_Pitt on
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    AcidSerraAcidSerra Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Okay, I've been working on a the concept and design doc for an MMo for a while. I decided to sit down and do some sprites for concept art while my scanner is down and this is what popped out.

    mmoconceptart.gif

    I figure, given the CCG style business model I'm looking at, this would fit in fine with the idea of the program.

    AcidSerra on
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    Dex DynamoDex Dynamo Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    And in response to the only warhammer comment, I'd like to point out I designed several heroclix charsheets. And was planning on designing other types of characters as well. Perhaps D&D miniatures/Characters?

    Dex Dynamo on
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    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    AcidSerra wrote: »
    Okay, I've been working on a the concept and design doc for an MMo for a while. I decided to sit down and do some sprites for concept art while my scanner is down and this is what popped out.

    I figure, given the CCG style business model I'm looking at, this would fit in fine with the idea of the program.

    Hmm that sounds interesting, and brings up a point: I could play Anachronism via GITS, with a simple Grid overlay.

    ElderCat on
    IWBRLjC.png
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    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Hey guys.

    I've talked to a few of you over the past few days and this project has come up in conversation, only it was mentioned posthumously, which bothers me.

    This is still going to happen.

    Riemann's been crazy-super-busy with his work, and as such, I've asked him to post up the requirements needed for additional people to help code. Hopefully he will add that in soon and I will tack it onto the first post - I want to try and get more people working and coding on this project as a community effort so we can get something to play with!

    Ein on
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    Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    *cheers*

    The community effort aspect of this game is its greatest strength. I could possibly even see us cobbling together our own board-wargame and universe.

    Which would be awesome.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Zetetic: You have teased me with a dream.

    SUPERSUGA on
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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    WarMyth!

    Mr_Rose on
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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    More like World of WarMyth Online Craft.

    Potential to be either all kinds of awesome or a complete failure. We'll save that project for another day :wink:

    SUPERSUGA on
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    RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Yeah, progress has been slow but the code is coming along. There have been two main issues thus far:
    1) I work full time as a programmer. A lot of time time when I get home coding more is a little unnapealing.
    2) I'm nearly through with a bunch of very boring but nescessary groundwork / utility classes. Once I get to the more interesting stuff I think the pace will pick up a bit.

    I will be posting here in the near future with technical info. The short version is, if you have any understanding of Object Oriented Programming (C++, C#, Java etc... any OOP language OK. Previous experience with Flash is not required or even helpful.) and want to help out there is room for you! All of the code except networking will be in Actionscript 3.0 (networking in C#) but with a basic understanding on an OOP language AS3 is hell of easy to learn. Also, all the tools used for the actionscript portion are free (Flash Develop and ANT for building) and all the docs for AS3 are available on the web. I'll post links and instructions for setting up Flash Develop in the near future.

    RiemannLives on
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    Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    SUPERSUGA wrote: »
    More like World of WarMyth Online Craft.

    Potential to be either all kinds of awesome or a complete failure. We'll save that project for another day :wink:

    It'd be both at the same time.

    Well, I mean, if it were up to me, I'd probably go crazy, including a strategic campaign map as well as the down-and-dirty tactical battles, with airships and batshit crazy magic and the works, working it necromunda/gorkamorka style.

    But hey, that's just me.

    Zetetic Elench on
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    Sharp101Sharp101 TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Riemann, I think I'll be able to help with code.

    I cant make any promises, but I'll damn well try.

    Sharp101 on
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    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I've updated the first post with relevant information - if you're able and willing to help, please contribute! A community effort will go a long way in getting this project on it's feet.

    For those of you who are going to be contributors to the code, I am going to work on setting you up a spot on my FTP so that code can be shared easily.

    Also, I'm going to assume from those of you that have contributed graphics and such you wouldn't mind me throwing the stuff up there and keeping a proper journal of GITS' progress. If this isn't the case, just send me a PM.

    Ein on
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    TheFallenLordTheFallenLord Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Sharp101 wrote: »
    Riemann, I think I'll be able to help with code.

    I cant make any promises, but I'll damn well try.

    Seconded. I'd love to give a hand in getting this project up and running. Before everything went silent I was messing around with AS3 and I was starting to understand it. Anyway, let me know how I can help.

    TheFallenLord on
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    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    G.I.T.S. has been added to the Warforge under Projects, as well as a handy F.A.Q.

    Ein on
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    AftyAfty Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Have you thought about using subversion, it'd be horrible to lose your work !

    http://www.subversion.com/

    we use it at work (web development company) to make sure we dont do idiotic things like copy over our latest versions etc.

    Afty on
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    ValkunValkun Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Another year until I earn my B.S. in C.S. with plenty of OOP experience under my belt. This sort of project would be the perfect sort of thing to work on in my spare time in comparison to the meatier stuff they have us doing for course work. Riemann, do you have a SRS I can look at? I haven't worked with Action Script since Flash MX (AC2.0) unfortunately but it shouldn't take long to catch up.

    Valkun on
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    TechnicalityTechnicality Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'll chip in with the code in a couple of months time when I finish Uni, if you haven't finished it by then.

    Technicality on
    handt.jpg tor.jpg

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    LabesLabes Registered User new member
    edited March 2007
    I'd be interested in helping out here, but not so good with the art stuff. I've got experience in C#/C++, and would love to help out with coding if there's anything to do.

    I see you're using AS3 (ok, well you told us you were using it), so at the moment I'm just trying to get used to using that. I've got FlashDevelop downloaded and updated to use as3 ( http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/tutorials/free-flex2-development-environment/ if anyone else wants to ).

    And if this project goes on til next year, I'm starting my comp sci studies, so I should be able to help more then, but I'll do my best now.

    Labes on
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    ValkunValkun Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Looks like my name change went through, woo. (The programmer formerly known as ThrawnDS)

    Ah, I would have replied directly to your email Riemann but I thought it'd be best if all the programmers on the project could get in on this discussion at once. I really do wonder if AS3 really is the best language to be using on this project. All of the issues you described also apply equally to Java (portability and easy to use GUI framework). Although I've only done socket work in C I know that Java has it as well. And there are free programs to embed the .class and necessary JDK files into an executable.

    As for some of the design issues, might I suggest taking a look at Transcendence? It's XML files are an absolute breeze to modify and add to. And its method for graphics storage is pretty efficient: Everything goes into .bmps and you can designate animated images in the XML's by indicating the number of frames and offsetting each frame beneath one another in the image file.

    Valkun on
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    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I won't pretend to know anything about coding, but wouldn't converting them all down into .bmps be problematic where transparency is considered?

    Ein on
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    ValkunValkun Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I won't pretend to know anything about coding, but wouldn't converting them all down into .bmps be problematic where transparency is considered?

    Sorry, that was just an example from Transcendence (the designer stored everything in bitmap format). But it'd be trivial to designate a color or range of colors as transparent. But stacking frames in a single image allows you to mix animated sprites and still sprites in the same file.

    Valkun on
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    Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Just passing through oDaM for the Phalla game and saw this thread. Some really neat artwork in here.

    Don't know if it'd help, but here's a great resource for top-down and profile images of historical military units (though perhaps a little bigger than people are looking for).

    Paper Soldiers for Junior Generals

    Examples:

    w2germpara.gif

    101air.gif

    The site also has some useful templates for drawing your own troops.

    Andrew_Jay on
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    UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Not to nit-pick, but those nearly all seem to be profile not top-down. Although I'm sure with the right background a side-scrolling game could be created, GIST has so far focused exclusively on rendering tabletops from an overhead perspective.


    Speaking of the tabletop, how large are we planning on letting maps be? Going by the established scale, Warhammer would need something like 1500x2200 for a typical game, and I've toyed around with ideas for game designs that would need the ability to switch back and forth from one map to another, which may be useful for playing or saving states of multiple games at once.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
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    Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    Not to nit-pick, but those all seem to be profile not top-down.
    There are top-down graphics, but not a whole lot. Most are meant to built into physical stand-up soldiers for playing on a board.

    Andrew_Jay on
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    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    Not to nit-pick, but those nearly all seem to be profile not top-down. Although I'm sure with the right background a side-scrolling game could be created, GIST has so far focused exclusively on rendering tabletops from an overhead perspective.


    Speaking of the tabletop, how large are we planning on letting maps be? Going by the established scale, Warhammer would need something like 1500x2200 for a typical game, and I've toyed around with ideas for game designs that would need the ability to switch back and forth from one map to another, which may be useful for playing or saving states of multiple games at once.

    I can't quite recall the pixel-to-inches thing.. just based on the overall guess that maybe 25 pixels is an inch, and I'd say most boards would be 4x4 or 6x4.. Which is roughly 1200x1200 or 1800x1200 at 1:1 scale. 2:1 (half zoom) puts that at a much more reasonable 600x600 or 900x600, though.

    I can't promise anything like the switching back and forth from maps. It might be implementable in the form that was discussed earlier for multiple floor buildings - you could toggle up and down a level, basically - but if anything like that was implemented it's a long while off.

    Ein on
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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Hahah that paper soldier website is pretty sweet. I downloaded a bunch of the War of 1812 guys a while back since I am a War of 1812 re-enactor. I even modified some to represent US Rifles as late war Infantry.

    So in other news If anyone wants my IG at the moment please save it off beacuse I'm going to take it down from my webspace for now. It takes up a huge ammount of space. If anyone wants it I can re host it for them or just email it to them.

    usarmy1812.gif
    These are pretty kick ass. Though I'd like to see them late war instead of early war, as very few used the early war uniforms. Also Rifles would be nice.

    Librarian's ghost on
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    RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Valkun wrote: »
    Looks like my name change went through, woo. (The programmer formerly known as ThrawnDS)

    Ah, I would have replied directly to your email Riemann but I thought it'd be best if all the programmers on the project could get in on this discussion at once. I really do wonder if AS3 really is the best language to be using on this project. All of the issues you described also apply equally to Java (portability and easy to use GUI framework). Although I've only done socket work in C I know that Java has it as well. And there are free programs to embed the .class and necessary JDK files into an executable.

    As for some of the design issues, might I suggest taking a look at Transcendence? It's XML files are an absolute breeze to modify and add to. And its method for graphics storage is pretty efficient: Everything goes into .bmps and you can designate animated images in the XML's by indicating the number of frames and offsetting each frame beneath one another in the image file.

    Quite a bit of Java dev goes on where I work (mostly server side) and I have fiddled around with Transcendence before (you linked to a neet space roguelike game with the same name). I considered java initially but performance is a major concern as is the relative weight and low market penetration of the distro.

    I also would need to make sure the UI library does not come with any licence-agreement strings attached. If this project goes open source that will be a distinct and deliberate decision. I will certainly not be drawn into something like the GPL just to use some buttons.

    Edit: Just to clarify, I know some Java. But not enough that I would feel comfortable leading a team or architecting a project in that language. If java seems to be a better platform and someone else who has the real world experience needed to do this project justice steps forward I would be quite willing to hand the reigns to them and chip in on coding where my skills are appropriate.

    Further edit: By the above, I mean I know about as much Java as someone who has a BS in CS or some such and has used it a fair bit in a classroom setting (I didn't learn it in school, studied abstract math actually). Having been in the field for a few years now I know just how little university CS eductaion is really worth in the trenches :)

    RiemannLives on
    Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
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    RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    About scale: Every session will have a scale for the map determined by the host. You define a unit of measurement (eg: inches, mm, miles) and a ratio between that unit and pixels at 100% scale. Eg: inches with 30 pixels per inch.

    The table can be zoomed in and out and the actual drawn size of all objects is the combination of their size, the scale ratio and the current zoom settings.

    The only limit on table size is memory, which is a very large limit. Not sure at this time exactly how big but definetly "really freaking huge".

    RiemannLives on
    Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
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    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Tim: I've already rehosted your imperial guard spritework on The Warforge.

    Ein on
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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Woot! Thanks Jam. They were really sucking up my webspace and I need the room for Dark Angel pictures.

    Librarian's ghost on
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    zootsozootso Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Guys, this is a dream come true. Fantastic work...I'd love to contribute a bit too, I haven't done pixel art and spriting for a while, but this is the kind of project that makes me want to get back into it.

    Superb work y'al.

    zootso on
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    EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Hey guys.

    I've been working on cutting up individual .pngs from the original marine artwork. I was hoping I might get the sprite work back on track and encourage people to finish the armies they may have started, as the more artwork that gets done is more artwork that can be incorporated into the game when it's finally released for testing. Reimann's asked me to go through the thread and consolidate a lot of the work posted here, so even if you could post up-to-date .pngs it would be much appreciated :P

    In the course of cutting up the marine terminator sprites, I decided I wasn't quite too fond of the way power fists had been drawn, so I've drawn up a bunch of different tests. Which do you guys think of these works the best?

    termiefist.jpg

    Ein on
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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    1 or 2 I'd say. 3 looks too claw-y, 4's fingers don't look right to be and 5 is a boxing glove.

    1 and 2 both look great, but if you pushed me I'd say 2.

    SUPERSUGA on
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    UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I like #3's more dynamic open grip, but #1 is a close second. Two seems more like an indistinct compromise between #1 and #3, and #4 as mentioned has unsensibly long fingers.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
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