Uh, no. Neither of us were talking about naming. Read the whole quote tree, it's pretty clear.
You were complaining about then being called specializations, because that implies skill in one thing at the expense of skill in something else.
That is absolutely complaining about naming.
Uh, no. I was complaining about the function of what he was talking about. The naming is irrelevant.
He'd named a bonus for the skill. Something extra you got. For specializations you need multiple, distinct equivalentish bonuses. And the big problem with the bonus he named was there was no room to do this.
Yeesh, Blizzard should patch in some reading comprehension to this thread apparently.
Speaking of which, I just powerleveled JC on my main. It took about 5k towards the end because I got a little unlucky with prospecting cata ore. Until Cata mats, it was sub 4k, but the last 50 points are a pain because the only two gems required to level are Hessonite and nightstone, which are going for 20g a pop on my server right now.
Also, If you have an enchanter, or know one, Make carnelian spikes and D/E them. Regularly (90% for me so far) get 3 Greater Celestial essences, which sell for 40g a pop right now low side.
Oh my god am I glad I made a note about this when I saw it. Texted my friend (a JC) and when I got home from work I had 4 of these in my mage's mailbox. 10 Greater Celestial Essences later, life is good.
It is completely ridiculous that I can sell 1 JC daily gem (a jasper) for nearly the price of a stack of ore. (65 vs ~70g)
Also, the word is slowly getting around, but Defender's Demonseye is awesome. No one else on my server seems to be selling it, but tanks that do their research are snapping em up. Ah, the benefit of an old cut getting less crappy.
It is completely ridiculous that I can sell 1 JC daily gem (a jasper) for nearly the price of a stack of ore. (65 vs ~70g)
Also, the word is slowly getting around, but Defender's Demonseye is awesome. No one else on my server seems to be selling it, but tanks that do their research are snapping em up. Ah, the benefit of an old cut getting less crappy.
It is completely ridiculous that I can sell 1 JC daily gem (a jasper) for nearly the price of a stack of ore. (65 vs ~70g)
Also, the word is slowly getting around, but Defender's Demonseye is awesome. No one else on my server seems to be selling it, but tanks that do their research are snapping em up. Ah, the benefit of an old cut getting less crappy.
Why are they so good?
Aside from knowing that more tanks value parry and it is often worth it to plug socket bonuses instead of stamstamstamstamstam now, nothing extraordinary. Just the best red gem I know of for the plate tanks.
Professions are all different, so should they reintroduce specializations or some variation of, I imagine those would work differently, too.
No, don't you see? You can't do that. It's unpossible - especially if you call them specializations.
Definitely not, unless we're talking about alchemy, in which case we can have specializations. But only for Alchemy and not any other profession, because shryke is unimaginitive and thus so is Blizzard.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Regarding Inscription specializations, honestly the profession needs something else anyways. I am totally behind the decision to make glyphs permanent but that did sort of kill the whole thing in that process. I think if they could find one more thing for it to do, they could work specializations into it better (especially if they add additional trinkets - it would be nice if they gave more "non-ridiculously-expensive" Darkmoon Card options, like some rare-quality ones)
Professions are all different, so should they reintroduce specializations or some variation of, I imagine those would work differently, too.
No, don't you see? You can't do that. It's unpossible - especially if you call them specializations.
Definitely not, unless we're talking about alchemy, in which case we can have specializations. But only for Alchemy and not any other profession, because shryke is unimaginitive and thus so is Blizzard.
Or, you know, because unlike every other profession in the game Alchemy produces a wide variety of differing goods, all of which are in fairly high demand. (if you are still confused, Alchemy does potions, elixirs, flasks and transmutes. All of which have good, reasonably active markets.)
Snark doesn't make the issues here go away. Nor does you ignoring them.
You can, as Warlock82 does above, talk about those other professions needing something else to produce because of this. And I would agree. But given the way professions currently exist, most are far too limited in scope to support multiple specializations because they don't make enough different stuff.
Inscription is pretty much the poster boy for this issue. It does Glyphs and a few side things and that's it. There's not enough diversity there to support specialization. BS and Tailoring and Enchanting all have the same issue. LW as well (although, again, there might be enough difference in Mail vs Leather to make something work)
Why does Weaponsmithing vs. Armorsmithing not work for BS? You haven't provided a good answer.
If the answer is, "Because no-one makes weapons!," then I'll agree with that, because:
1. Weapons are too expensive in terms of materials required vs. skill-ups achieved
2. Insufficient weapon variety means, of those who do take up BSing, not everyone will have a useful weapon come out of it.
However, that isn't a problem of BSing not having enough differentiation in its products, it's a problem of the recipes and results being bad. For instance, if I'm leveling BSing, I can choose to make:
A Dazzling Mithril Rapier, which takes 14 mithril bars, an aquamarine, 2 lesser moonstones, 2 moss agates, a solid grinding stone, and 2 magweaves cloths. This gets me a +Agi one-handed sword.
--or--
Heavy Mithril Pants, which takes 10 mithril bars. This gets me a +Sta +Armor Plate leg item.
One of these items is much more useful than the other. Moreover, I'm playing a Holy Paladin. There have been, so far, approximately 2 recipes that fit my spec - one of which is a two-handed sword, so that's out.
Why doesn't BSing have a recipe like JC's Heavy Silver Ring or Hessonite Band? All production skills should have that kind of recipe at appropriate levels, and I really like JC's ability to, on Hessonite Bands, occasionally cut a blue-quality version instead of the normal green.
Adding that to BSing and letting the specializations have a better chance to proc a blue-quality version would be just one way to handle BSing specializations.
What about a blacksmithing (or LW or tailoring) spec that let you stick some extra gems and volatiles and stuff on and bump the product up a tier, like 346-359. It would be exclusive, but only kinda.
Why does Weaponsmithing vs. Armorsmithing not work for BS? You haven't provided a good answer.
If the answer is, "Because no-one makes weapons!," then I'll agree with that, because:
1. Weapons are too expensive in terms of materials required vs. skill-ups achieved
2. Insufficient weapon variety means, of those who do take up BSing, not everyone will have a useful weapon come out of it.
However, that isn't a problem of BSing not having enough differentiation in its products, it's a problem of the recipes and results being bad. For instance, if I'm leveling BSing, I can choose to make:
A Dazzling Mithril Rapier, which takes 14 mithril bars, an aquamarine, 2 lesser moonstones, 2 moss agates, a solid grinding stone, and 2 magweaves cloths. This gets me a +Agi one-handed sword.
--or--
Heavy Mithril Pants, which takes 10 mithril bars. This gets me a +Sta +Armor Plate leg item.
One of these items is much more useful than the other. Moreover, I'm playing a Holy Paladin. There have been, so far, approximately 2 recipes that fit my spec - one of which is a two-handed sword, so that's out.
Why doesn't BSing have a recipe like JC's Heavy Silver Ring or Hessonite Band? All production skills should have that kind of recipe at appropriate levels, and I really like JC's ability to, on Hessonite Bands, occasionally cut a blue-quality version instead of the normal green.
Adding that to BSing and letting the specializations have a better chance to proc a blue-quality version would be just one way to handle BSing specializations.
No, because obviously weapons requiring excessive material components and/or not providing extra skill gains is a problem that is unsolvable.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I only really say Inscription needs more because Blizzard fucked over Glyphs (and thus the entire profession), not necessarily because it needs to fit into a rigid specialization system.
Also regarding Weaponsmithing, yeah, you guys hit the nail on the head here. It used to be pretty great, in fact WAY better than Armorsmithing, in vanilla. My Orc Warrior was a Weaponsmith because I could make awesome stuff like the Arcanite Reaper. The only problem with it right now is that Blizzard put a janitor in charge of their professions so now they are all retarded. I still don't understand why Blacksmiths can't make a throwing weapon for me. I would have been ALL OVER that shit, since the only one that drops is in Halls of Origination (I did finally get it but it took FOREVER)
Weaponsmithing vs Armorsmithing doesn't work these days for the exact reason you gave. They took out all the good weapons. And shit, alot of the good armor too. There was some comments about this from Blizzard, but I can't for the life of me remember the general thrust of it, but they didn't like crafting producing all your weapons. Armor vs Weapons is a tricky market from my experience.
And, to cover your other point, an important thing is those things that are in demand they professions produce have to be at max level. Talking about Heavy Mithril Pants and how much they suck is a completely separate issue. Specializations need to matter at max level.
BS though, currently suffers from having very few recipes. I sell PvP gear and that's it cause frankly, I can't craft much else. As I said above, the only way specializations work is if you give the professions a variety of useful items to produce. And you'd need some major changes and additions to them to make it work.
The only way the other professions would support specializations is to give them a fairly big overhaul and update them with alot more stuff. This wouldn't be super hard for BS and LW is almost there already, but others like Inscription, Tailoring and Enchanting would need major changes and additions.
Seriously beginning to suspect that Zin'Rokh from arch is a dirty lie.
And I would kill for the ability to 'reroll' arch sites. Don't like all 4? Bam 4 new ones without having to fly across the world. Give it a cooldown or make it cost something, I don't care but I want it.
Seriously beginning to suspect that Zin'Rokh from arch is a dirty lie.
And I would kill for the ability to 'reroll' arch sites. Don't like all 4? Bam 4 new ones without having to fly across the world. Give it a cooldown or make it cost something, I don't care but I want it.
That would conflict with Blizzard's design goal for archaeology, which by every indication I've seen is to be the biggest fucking time sink in the history of ever.
Though for what it's worth, I totally agree with your suggestion. I would pay dearly for it.
There was talk before cata release that as you leveled in arch there would be more active zones on each continent, up to 16 at max level. What jackass thought that was a good thing to not do.
Archeology was the final nail in the coffin that is wow currently for me.
If they had made it so that once you finish something off you cant get it again, or that if you finish a race you dont get those digsites anymore, I'd have like it more.
Now they are NERFING it? Making it even more time consuming?
Unless you are in a raiding guild, I see no reason to log in anymore.
You can't get something again until you've gotten all the common artifacts. Rares don't count in this "don't get something again" thing though.
Also the only "nerf" is to stocking up on artifacts, and you can partially circumvent that by stockpiling keystones instead. They lowered the Survey cooldown and switched it so people don't have to waste time grinding to 100 before they start solving (which I guess you could count as a nerf too, but I count it as a buff to peoples' sanity).
If you're grinding a race, focus on those digsites and only go to other races' digsites if there's none of your current target.
Archaeology should have been closer to a quest line than a gathering skill. The basic surveying mechanic is fine, but everything else is stupid. Especially the random flying around part.
Imagine if it was set up with each site (or perhaps a collection of closeby sites) each having it's own storyline told through the items you find their, much like a quest hub. You complete items, and you get closer to opening up a new site or set of sites. So each civ's artifacts and sites becomes like a tree. Then you could put in a bunch of achievements for 100% sites and stuff.
Instead of random trapsing around you start off with choices between a set of historically relatively unimportant sites and work your way towards the very important ones where some of the best rewards lie.
Something like that could have been really cool, the current thing is garbage.
Archaeology should have been closer to a quest line than a gathering skill. The basic surveying mechanic is fine, but everything else is stupid. Especially the random flying around part.
Imagine if it was set up with each site (or perhaps a collection of closeby sites) each having it's own storyline told through the items you find their, much like a quest hub. You complete items, and you get closer to opening up a new site or set of sites. So each civ's artifacts and sites becomes like a tree. Then you could put in a bunch of achievements for 100% sites and stuff.
Instead of random trapsing around you start off with choices between a set of historically relatively unimportant sites and work your way towards the very important ones where some of the best rewards lie.
Something like that could have been really cool, the current thing is garbage.
I like all of that post, SPI. That is why I am quoting it.
I have no desire to do Archaeology, except for the fact that I'll get tangible rewards for doing so. Ugh....
Hell even integrate it totally into the new dungeons etc - instead of just a daily you can do at the beginning of the dungeon for a small buff, the items you create can be used to summon new bosses, or questlines etc.
Archeology should have been about story, instead its the worse grind in the game for entry level epics.
Just to clarify an archeology question I have - the 'good' stuff (ie, the night elf trinket, the staffs, whatnot) are available as of 450 skill, right?
So, I have discovered that goblin engineers (that is, engineers who are goblins) are unable to learn the Mechano-Hog schematics.
In fact, race-changing to goblin makes you un-learn it.
Uh that seems borked. Did you send up a report?
Question:
Leatherworking. Dums of the Wild. Changed from original and useless now since the 80 cap. Is there an equivilant of this for 80+ from leatherworking?
So, I have discovered that goblin engineers (that is, engineers who are goblins) are unable to learn the Mechano-Hog schematics.
In fact, race-changing to goblin makes you un-learn it.
Uh that seems borked. Did you send up a report?
Question:
Leatherworking. Dums of the Wild. Changed from original and useless now since the 80 cap. Is there an equivilant of this for 80+ from leatherworking?
The only reason it was changed is because Kings and GotW are now the same buff, so Drums of the Forgotten King now gives that buff, but only 4 percent.
Just to clarify an archeology question I have - the 'good' stuff (ie, the night elf trinket, the staffs, whatnot) are available as of 450 skill, right?
The different finds come available at different skill levels, http://www.wowwiki.com/Archaeology_rewards has a full list. But yeah at 450 everything should be available.
Posts
Uh, no. I was complaining about the function of what he was talking about. The naming is irrelevant.
He'd named a bonus for the skill. Something extra you got. For specializations you need multiple, distinct equivalentish bonuses. And the big problem with the bonus he named was there was no room to do this.
Yeesh, Blizzard should patch in some reading comprehension to this thread apparently.
What is the best way to make some cash out of this?
Level to 525 and transmute truegold.
Sell Herbs, keep leveling Alchemy.
At the very least, you can get to the high 400s and do Volatile Life => Volatile X transmutes.
Whoops. Meant 525. :P
No, don't you see? You can't do that. It's unpossible - especially if you call them specializations.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Oh my god am I glad I made a note about this when I saw it. Texted my friend (a JC) and when I got home from work I had 4 of these in my mage's mailbox. 10 Greater Celestial Essences later, life is good.
Also, the word is slowly getting around, but Defender's Demonseye is awesome. No one else on my server seems to be selling it, but tanks that do their research are snapping em up. Ah, the benefit of an old cut getting less crappy.
Why are they so good?
Aside from knowing that more tanks value parry and it is often worth it to plug socket bonuses instead of stamstamstamstamstam now, nothing extraordinary. Just the best red gem I know of for the plate tanks.
Yep, I've NEVER seen anyone else selling them on my (admittedly backwater) server.
Or, you know, because unlike every other profession in the game Alchemy produces a wide variety of differing goods, all of which are in fairly high demand. (if you are still confused, Alchemy does potions, elixirs, flasks and transmutes. All of which have good, reasonably active markets.)
Snark doesn't make the issues here go away. Nor does you ignoring them.
You can, as Warlock82 does above, talk about those other professions needing something else to produce because of this. And I would agree. But given the way professions currently exist, most are far too limited in scope to support multiple specializations because they don't make enough different stuff.
Inscription is pretty much the poster boy for this issue. It does Glyphs and a few side things and that's it. There's not enough diversity there to support specialization. BS and Tailoring and Enchanting all have the same issue. LW as well (although, again, there might be enough difference in Mail vs Leather to make something work)
Why is Archeology worse than hitler?
If the answer is, "Because no-one makes weapons!," then I'll agree with that, because:
1. Weapons are too expensive in terms of materials required vs. skill-ups achieved
2. Insufficient weapon variety means, of those who do take up BSing, not everyone will have a useful weapon come out of it.
However, that isn't a problem of BSing not having enough differentiation in its products, it's a problem of the recipes and results being bad. For instance, if I'm leveling BSing, I can choose to make:
A Dazzling Mithril Rapier, which takes 14 mithril bars, an aquamarine, 2 lesser moonstones, 2 moss agates, a solid grinding stone, and 2 magweaves cloths. This gets me a +Agi one-handed sword.
--or--
Heavy Mithril Pants, which takes 10 mithril bars. This gets me a +Sta +Armor Plate leg item.
One of these items is much more useful than the other. Moreover, I'm playing a Holy Paladin. There have been, so far, approximately 2 recipes that fit my spec - one of which is a two-handed sword, so that's out.
Why doesn't BSing have a recipe like JC's Heavy Silver Ring or Hessonite Band? All production skills should have that kind of recipe at appropriate levels, and I really like JC's ability to, on Hessonite Bands, occasionally cut a blue-quality version instead of the normal green.
Adding that to BSing and letting the specializations have a better chance to proc a blue-quality version would be just one way to handle BSing specializations.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Also regarding Weaponsmithing, yeah, you guys hit the nail on the head here. It used to be pretty great, in fact WAY better than Armorsmithing, in vanilla. My Orc Warrior was a Weaponsmith because I could make awesome stuff like the Arcanite Reaper. The only problem with it right now is that Blizzard put a janitor in charge of their professions so now they are all retarded. I still don't understand why Blacksmiths can't make a throwing weapon for me. I would have been ALL OVER that shit, since the only one that drops is in Halls of Origination (I did finally get it but it took FOREVER)
And, to cover your other point, an important thing is those things that are in demand they professions produce have to be at max level. Talking about Heavy Mithril Pants and how much they suck is a completely separate issue. Specializations need to matter at max level.
BS though, currently suffers from having very few recipes. I sell PvP gear and that's it cause frankly, I can't craft much else. As I said above, the only way specializations work is if you give the professions a variety of useful items to produce. And you'd need some major changes and additions to them to make it work.
The only way the other professions would support specializations is to give them a fairly big overhaul and update them with alot more stuff. This wouldn't be super hard for BS and LW is almost there already, but others like Inscription, Tailoring and Enchanting would need major changes and additions.
And I would kill for the ability to 'reroll' arch sites. Don't like all 4? Bam 4 new ones without having to fly across the world. Give it a cooldown or make it cost something, I don't care but I want it.
That would conflict with Blizzard's design goal for archaeology, which by every indication I've seen is to be the biggest fucking time sink in the history of ever.
Though for what it's worth, I totally agree with your suggestion. I would pay dearly for it.
Hail Satan!
If they had made it so that once you finish something off you cant get it again, or that if you finish a race you dont get those digsites anymore, I'd have like it more.
Now they are NERFING it? Making it even more time consuming?
Unless you are in a raiding guild, I see no reason to log in anymore.
Also the only "nerf" is to stocking up on artifacts, and you can partially circumvent that by stockpiling keystones instead. They lowered the Survey cooldown and switched it so people don't have to waste time grinding to 100 before they start solving (which I guess you could count as a nerf too, but I count it as a buff to peoples' sanity).
If you're grinding a race, focus on those digsites and only go to other races' digsites if there's none of your current target.
Imagine if it was set up with each site (or perhaps a collection of closeby sites) each having it's own storyline told through the items you find their, much like a quest hub. You complete items, and you get closer to opening up a new site or set of sites. So each civ's artifacts and sites becomes like a tree. Then you could put in a bunch of achievements for 100% sites and stuff.
Instead of random trapsing around you start off with choices between a set of historically relatively unimportant sites and work your way towards the very important ones where some of the best rewards lie.
Something like that could have been really cool, the current thing is garbage.
I like all of that post, SPI. That is why I am quoting it.
I have no desire to do Archaeology, except for the fact that I'll get tangible rewards for doing so. Ugh....
Archeology should have been about story, instead its the worse grind in the game for entry level epics.
In fact, race-changing to goblin makes you un-learn it.
Uh that seems borked. Did you send up a report?
Question:
Leatherworking. Dums of the Wild. Changed from original and useless now since the 80 cap. Is there an equivilant of this for 80+ from leatherworking?
The only reason it was changed is because Kings and GotW are now the same buff, so Drums of the Forgotten King now gives that buff, but only 4 percent.
The different finds come available at different skill levels, http://www.wowwiki.com/Archaeology_rewards has a full list. But yeah at 450 everything should be available.