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Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

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    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    ACSIS wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    All those goddamn fucking mountains and fog sure helped Morrowind seem big.

    Morrowind IS big. Viviec alone...

    Most of Morrowind's size came from you having difficulty outrunning snails. Up the movement speed to something reasonable and the game seems a lot smaller.

    Oh and removing some of the fog.

    MechMantis on
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    ACSIS wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    All those goddamn fucking mountains and fog sure helped Morrowind seem big.

    Morrowind IS big.

    Not really. It was substantially smaller than Oblivion.

    Gaslight on
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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    MechMantis wrote: »
    ACSIS wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    All those goddamn fucking mountains and fog sure helped Morrowind seem big.

    Morrowind IS big. Viviec alone...

    Most of Morrowind's size came from you having difficulty outrunning snails. Up the movement speed to something reasonable and the game seems a lot smaller.

    Oh and removing some of the fog.

    It's true

    But at the same time, it sure seemed goddamn gigantic

    And that's an accomplishment

    Olivaw on
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    BigDesBigDes Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If you ever use the Morrowind Graphic extender you cans see how small Morrowind was.

    It's just that all the paths were serpentine as hell to make everything seem a further away place.

    BigDes on
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    SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Latest podcast confirmed spears are not in the game, according to Todd.

    Fucking oath. Heaven forbid they actually fucking add a weapon class to the game instead of ripping shit out over the series.

    Suriko on
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    EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well I can deal without spears if they actually make combat interesting with what we do get.

    I put mods on Oblivion so that the bow is very powerful, and I still end up doing an utterly stupid and immersion-breaking "dance" with the mobs as I backpedal while firing arrows into them.

    Enig on
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    KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Thank fucking God! I have finally gotten my magazine! And for some reason BestBuy sent me their gaming magazine....

    Kadoken on
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    MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Alchemy is a stealth skill.

    colbert_called_it.jpg

    Woo!

    Also, this whole perk/sub-skill-tree thing sounds great, though I'm not quite as crazy about every character starting from more or less the same blank slate.

    Monger on
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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I think the 'blank slate' idea with unique traits depending on your race is way better than a class system. Makes a lot of sense that only your race would produce variation between characters at the start. I kind of hate how in RPGs so often I pick the class build I think sounds good, but it's not until 10 hours into the game when you know if it's actually any good. Like, I enjoy stealth so I build a stealthy character, but if it turns out the game does stealth really badly then I just end up having to restart because it's not fun, and settle for a more straight up fighter character. The Skyrim way, you should be able to tailor your character to the way you play in that particular game.

    Brovid Hasselsmof on
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    SorensonSorenson Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    That and since they say levelling is supposed to be fast I imagine it'll be easy to get yourself into a base groove for the kind of character you want, anyway.

    Sorenson on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    All those goddamn fucking mountains and fog sure helped Morrowind seem big.
    Ah, yes. "Mountains".

    Glal on
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Cool, they actually went with sub-skill weapon perks

    -Tal on
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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    -Tal wrote: »
    Cool, they actually went with sub-skill weapon perks

    Wait... what?

    august on
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    MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Sorenson wrote: »
    That and since they say levelling is supposed to be fast I imagine it'll be easy to get yourself into a base groove for the kind of character you want, anyway.
    This is what I'm hoping works out. It's mostly that skill systems like this kind of suck until you get the skills you want to use up to a decent level. Grinding them up from scratch would be pretty awful if it wasn't relatively accelerated.
    august wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    Cool, they actually went with sub-skill weapon perks

    Wait... what?
    Your perks aren't global. They're organized in mini skill trees under each individual skill. As in, under your one handed and two handed weapon skills, you've got a set of perks to choose from that enhance your skill with individual weapon types (blade, mace, axe, etc). Under your destruction skill, you've got a set of perks (I think) for different elements.

    Monger on
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    BasilBasil Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I don't understand. Where's the mechanic that makes it a good idea to never, ever level up on account of the game turning inside out and beating you over the head with glass armor bandits and the like if you do?

    I'm not seeing it.

    They broke ground with that shit, and now they're ditching it?

    It's just not elder scrolls anymore without meeting peasants in daedric armor.

    Basil on
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    Foolish ChaosFoolish Chaos Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The only real instance I can think of where "bandits" in mega armor would be weird is when that one bandit near the start asks for like 20 gold.

    The rest of the time I am happy imagining they are just adventurers and killing them for their armor.

    Foolish Chaos on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well fuck, why aren't spears in the game? :cry:

    Darmak on
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    SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Darmak wrote: »
    Well fuck, why aren't spears in the game? :cry:

    My best guess is animations. Staffs are also out (because hey, cutting things is easier than fixing them, right Beth?), so they only have bow, mace, axe and sword animations (and maybe hand-to-hand). It's entirely possible the latter three may use the one set of animations between them, as well.

    I have to admit this is starting to deflate me about the game a bit, when taken in addition to the other aspects of what's been publicised so far. Some things sound great (like the shouts, and the setting overall), but it feels like it's continuing down the opposite of the path I wanted them to go down. I guess we'll see.

    Suriko on
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    HydroSqueegeeHydroSqueegee ULTRACAT!!!™®© Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Basil wrote: »
    I don't understand. Where's the mechanic that makes it a good idea to never, ever level up on account of the game turning inside out and beating you over the head with glass armor bandits and the like if you do?

    I'm not seeing it.

    They broke ground with that shit, and now they're ditching it?

    It's just not elder scrolls anymore without meeting peasants in daedric armor.

    Morrowind Level scaling good. Oblivion level scaling bad.

    HydroSqueegee on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I "love" how they removed spears from Oblivion, and then later said that they left out horse combat because they couldn't figure out how to balance it.

    Hmm. Let's think about this for a minute.

    So then we ended up seeing armored Legionnaires carefully get off their horses to respond to attacks.

    Daedalus on
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    boneposerboneposer Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I have to say, I do kind of get not having spears. I sort of doubt they've thought this hard about it, but here's my take.

    Historically, spears/pikes/other random polearms were used by relatively untrained infantry because they were easy to use. Really, what skill is required to use a spear? You stand there with it stuck out in front of you and the chump on the horse riding at you with a sword gets impaled. Granted, if the guy on the horse had a bigger spear, you were shafted, but the combat approach to the weapon is still pretty simple.

    I get wanting to kind of roleplay a guy who flies by the seat of his pants and would therefore use things like spears or other improvisable weapons, but given Bethesda's gameplay ideology - that you gradually get stronger by learning how to do complicated shit - it doesn't really fit.

    At some point they, as developers, have to say "this is the aesthetic we want, and we have the integrity to follow through with it." There's room for debate here too - why make a sandbox game with an agenda? - but really, they (as participants in the physical universe) have limits.

    boneposer on
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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You're giving them far too much credit.

    Zxerol on
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I think you're also very broadly generalizing about a whole huge classification of weaponry.

    Gaslight on
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    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, uh, if you really wanna go down the route of "spears were kinda shitty weapons in real life," then you also have to address the fact that hitting a dude with a sword can be just as powerful as hitting them with a ball of fire you just shot out of your hand.

    And that an arrow shot at a man's head doesn't kill him instantly.

    Elder Scrolls is a fantasy video game. I'm pretty sure no one, including Bethseda, cares about being accurate to the efficiency of weapons beyond necessary game balancing.

    Stilts on
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    EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well, spears are nifty, but what would they actually bring to the game? To be meaningful they would have to have a unique combat mechanic. That takes work not only in designing but in balancing.

    Or are we just upset that there isn't an additional graphic/animation for melee weapons?

    Enig on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Historically, spears/pikes/other random polearms were used by relatively untrained infantry because they were easy to use.
    Bullshit. They were used because well trained men could kill shitloads of people on the battlefield with them. The Swiss and mother fucking Macedonians were not untrained.
    Really, what skill is required to use a spear? You stand there with it stuck out in front of you and the chump on the horse riding at you with a sword gets impaled.
    If you want to use it well, training is required.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_square
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_and_shot
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarissa
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_%28weapon%29#Renaissance_heyday

    http://navsci.berkeley.edu/ma20/EXAM%201%20REVIEW%20MATERIALS/Lesson%209%20-%20Revival%20of%20the%20Infantry.ppt
    Incessant drilling and rigorous training was required for many pikemen like the Swiss pikemen.

    Couscous on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    Historically, spears/pikes/other random polearms were used by relatively untrained infantry because they were easy to use.
    Bullshit. They were used because well trained men could kill shitloads of people on the battlefield with them. The Swiss and mother fucking Macedonians were not untrained.
    Really, what skill is required to use a spear? You stand there with it stuck out in front of you and the chump on the horse riding at you with a sword gets impaled.
    If you want to use it well, training is required.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_square
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_and_shot
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarissa
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_%28weapon%29#Renaissance_heyday

    http://navsci.berkeley.edu/ma20/EXAM%201%20REVIEW%20MATERIALS/Lesson%209%20-%20Revival%20of%20the%20Infantry.ppt
    Incessant drilling and rigorous training was required for many pikemen like the Swiss pikemen.

    Nuh uh, boneposer said all you had to do was stand there and the bad people would run into the pointy end of the spear.
    Enig wrote: »
    Well, spears are nifty, but what would they actually bring to the game? To be meaningful they would have to have a unique combat mechanic. That takes work not only in designing but in balancing.

    Or are we just upset that there isn't an additional graphic/animation for melee weapons?

    Why don't we get rid of axes and maces and two-handed weapons? What do they actually bring to the game? I think what you're saying is complete bullshit, this is a fantasy series centered about playing a character you created. There doesn't have to be any rhyme or reason to things as long as it's what you want to do. Adding spears wouldn't detract from the game in any way and could only increase the game's atmosphere. The only explanation I can really accept is that Bethesda couldn't/wouldn't do animations for them for whatever reason.

    Darmak on
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    EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Think it's more that spears are the easiest weapon to use untrained, not that their usage can't be improved vastly by a skilled person.

    Enig on
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    wakkawawakkawa Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The only reason why I think you would see untrained people using spears is that they are cheap. A stick with a pointy thing on the end. Doesn't mean you don't have to be skilled with them though.

    wakkawa on
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    BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I seriously hate the "BUT THAT'S NOT HOW IT IS IN REAL LIFE" argument every time someone brings up spears or dual wielding or pretty much anything, really. I am not playing video games because I want historical accuracy. I'm playing them because I want to be the most badass motherfucker there ever was, and if that means dual wielding spears with shields on the end then goddamn it, that's what I want.

    Blackjack on
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Blackjack wrote: »
    I seriously hate the "BUT THAT'S NOT HOW IT IS IN REAL LIFE" argument every time someone brings up spears or dual wielding or pretty much anything, really.

    Except in this case the argument which was attempted was "Spears were shitty weapons for stupid people in real life" and this was completely and ridiculously untrue anyway.

    Gaslight on
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    Evil WeevilEvil Weevil Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If Spears are really in, like for sure, I hope Argonians still have the +Spear bonus.

    I remember cruising around Morrowind as an Argonian spear-man and feeling special because there were no other Argonian spear-men around.

    Evil Weevil on
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    BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    I seriously hate the "BUT THAT'S NOT HOW IT IS IN REAL LIFE" argument every time someone brings up spears or dual wielding or pretty much anything, really.

    Except in this case the argument which was attempted was "Spears were shitty weapons for stupid people in real life" and this was completely and ridiculously untrue anyway.

    But I don't care spears are cool and that's why they should be in the game and fuck who used them in real life.

    Blackjack on
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    KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I wouldn't care to use spears anyway.

    Kadoken on
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    BasilBasil Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You give me a choice between a sword and a spear and I'm taking the spear.

    And then I'm giving twenty of my buddies spears.

    And thus I am dragged back into the total war series.

    I hate you.

    Basil on
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If Spears are really in, like for sure,

    Our entire discussion we have going on here is prompted by how spears are NOT in, for sure, as in there are definitely no spears.

    Gaslight on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If Spears are really in, like for sure, I hope Argonians still have the +Spear bonus.

    I remember cruising around Morrowind as an Argonian spear-man and feeling special because there were no other Argonian spear-men around.

    Sorry, they're really out, like for sure.

    Apparently the only Tamrielans that use spears are those who live in Morrowind. :?

    Darmak on
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    HavelockHavelock Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So, sort of nothing to do with the whole "lolspears" thing, what's the stretch of time between Oblivion and Skyrim?

    I've read the gameinformer bits where they throw out 200 years since the fall of the Septim dynasty, which I'm assuming takes place at the end of Oblivion. But if so, holy crap 200 years?

    Havelock on
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Havelock wrote: »
    the fall of the Septim dynasty, which I'm assuming takes place at the end of Oblivion.

    OMG use spoilers dude!

    ;-)

    Yeah, end of Oblivion is the end of the Third Era.

    Gaslight on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Shouldn't someone make a new thread and PM a mod to lock this old one? It's about done.

    Darmak on
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