Alrighty! My brand spanking new US name is Languid.362 .. I haven't placed yet or anything but I have trouble beating a hard AI so I'd imagine I'm somewhere between copper and faeces league. Come stomp on me to make me better, faster, stronger!
Alrighty! My brand spanking new US name is Languid.362 .. I haven't placed yet or anything but I have trouble beating a hard AI so I'd imagine I'm somewhere between copper and faeces league. Come stomp on me to make me better, faster, stronger!
Hard AI is like gold more or less.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
0
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Wow... Three placement matches, three resounding losses. One to a silver player, one to a bronze, and one for some reason didn't register so I don't know. I was floating thousands of minerals, could not keep on top of anything and felt completely not in control of anything. The replays showed no particularly amazing plays of my opponents and clear, gaping holes in my own play (which were obvious enough while I was actually playing :P), but for some reason I was just incapable of doing much about it.
Strangely I wasn't actually panicked or particularly nervous, just completely incompetent. Weird. I'll take a bit of a break and get back to it.
Zerg. I have to admit my plan was pretty loose (read: undefined) at the start, but after the first match I essentially wanted to do something like this - 15 pool, 16 hatch, get some lings, ling speed and roaches and put some pressure as soon as +1 armor finishes. Assuming the pressure was at least somewhat successful, use it to expand again. After that, apply banelings and / or mutas and / or infestors as needed. Seemed like a decent enough timing for the first push (and even if it's not, it's -a- timing, which was good enough to hang my hat on for now) but I don't think I actually got that far in either of the two games afterwards.
They weren't short games either, I wasn't rushed. There was nothing much in my way to put this plan together. I was trying to prevent spending too much time in the planning phase and coming up with this super elaborate plan that my -10 APM hands wouldn't be able to pull off, the whole keep-it-simple, stupid approach. I fell into that approach too much last time where I all my time watching replays, day9 etc and got increasingly worried about playing to the point where I just wouldn't at all.
does huk have a terrible Kpop song on repeat on his stream?
he might right now, but he usually plays terrible euro-trashy house
Feels Good Man on
0
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Ok so I really feel like a bastard doing a 4gate while hiding one of the gateways. With warp gate tech that fourth gate can be anywhere and there is literally nothing to telegraph what i'm doing different to a 3gate expand build except for a second gas for more sentries (vs zerg and terran) and a proxy pylon (which doesn't necessarily mean 4gate)
here's a replay against a 2300 zerg player who went muta/ling off two bases...a fairly standard opener that normally gives me a lot of trouble, but the heavy sentry count meant that his spine crawlers didnt do as much as they normally would since i had no armoured units. And the same heavy sentry count meant that when he did get mutas out, I wrecked them despite him executing the build what seemed like flawlessly and popping out 7-8 mutas almost as soon as the spire had been up for the required amount of time.
disclaimer: this replay is pretty much me showing off a total win, but its more to illustrate the build and hopefully help you guys find holes in it for me to plug so that i can stomp you all in the face later
Here's the build order
9 pylon, scout
13 gate
15 gas
16 pylon
18 core
--
don't have supply numbers after this
--
second gas
second gateway in base
begin warpgate tech as soon as the core is done and chronoboost as much as is possible
proxy pylon, proxy gate immediately when it finishes. use scout probe to do this if its alive
fourth gate
make a proxy pylon near your opponent like a standard 4gate if your hidden gate/pylon isn't already close enough
from there its a standard 4gate. hits at roughly the same time but is not nearly as easy to see coming
Zerg. I have to admit my plan was pretty loose (read: undefined) at the start, but after the first match I essentially wanted to do something like this - 15 pool, 16 hatch, get some lings, ling speed and roaches and put some pressure as soon as +1 armor finishes. Assuming the pressure was at least somewhat successful, use it to expand again. After that, apply banelings and / or mutas and / or infestors as needed. Seemed like a decent enough timing for the first push (and even if it's not, it's -a- timing, which was good enough to hang my hat on for now) but I don't think I actually got that far in either of the two games afterwards.
They weren't short games either, I wasn't rushed. There was nothing much in my way to put this plan together. I was trying to prevent spending too much time in the planning phase and coming up with this super elaborate plan that my -10 APM hands wouldn't be able to pull off, the whole keep-it-simple, stupid approach. I fell into that approach too much last time where I all my time watching replays, day9 etc and got increasingly worried about playing to the point where I just wouldn't at all.
Having a defined plan at the start is really, really good. Keep in mind that plan encompasses a lot more than just an opening. It's a blueprint for victory. It saves you from having to think in game. Unless it's something crazy like, "OMFG mothership+warp prism harass", you should have a plan for what to do against it.
Eg, I'm currently learning zerg. This plan was taken from here.
My build for small maps ZvZ is a roach centered 1-base play. 14 pool, 14 gas, 15 overlord, 16 queen, 18 roach warren. Then I build 6 zerglings, a drone, 6 roaches, and drones after that until I have enough resources for lair. I get a 2nd gas and an evo chamber at this point. I send out my zerglings to scout, then as soon as my hive is done, I'll be using overseers to scout (and use contaminate). I'll upgrade +1 ranged attacks, roach speed, and burrow. Then I grab my expansion.
From here what I see will dictate what I do...
Enemy early expanded (would have spotted this one earlier) - would have gotten +1 attacks earlier and crushed it with roaches
Enemy going spire tech - since I already have an evo chamber, put down spore crawlers and attack immediately trying to cripple him before they get out. Drop a hydra den, and pump hydras exclusively
Enemy going speedling - check to make sure I have a +1 advantage in ranged weapons to armor (so I can 2-shot zerglings with my roaches), then just attack into him. Roaches with burrow and +1 attack will melt zerglings and I'll easily win
Enemy going roaches - Pump more overseers to keep his hive contaminated. Get my expo running while I get infestors. Research zergling speed to have a small group to punish any expos where his army is at, and try to catch him out of position.
There are a couple of weaknesses, but it requires someone really savvy, and if their build isn't refined I can just roll over them.
Early 1-base lings can out-drone me. Midgame spire can be used to fake me into an overreaction against mutas, then beat me with roaches. Hardcore macro hatch play can punish me right when I'm trying to drone up my expo. Mass roach no-upgrade and/or early infestors can beat me with a timing attack.
But I'm not going to encounter this in the ladder. If I were a pro-gamer like Idra my build wouldn't be enough, but for learning Zerg it's almost overkill
I've got a similar plan for all 3 matchups. Is it the best? Maybe, maybe not. The point is I don't need to think at all. I can just sit, macro, do my thing and never worry about coming up with what I should be doing. The only games I can lose are when the enemy recognizes a weak point in my build, and moves to exploit it. I took a build I trusted from someone else, and now the only thing to worry about is executing it with my hands.
I don't need to worry about what to do with my overlords; my build tells me that already (keep them along the attack path, unless the enemy gets muta or hydra).
I don't need to worry about spending my money; my build already has me at sub~200 resources until the 10 minute mark.
I don't need to worry about when to attack; my build will tell me to do that automatically based on what I scout.
I don't need to worry about grabbing an expansion; my build has that built in.
I don't need to worry about when to pump drones or pump units; my build has that covered too.
The only thing I need to worry about is executing my build well, and doing what I've been practicing. All my concentration is focused on that, and now my ZvZ is stupidly good. Eventually, I'll need to learn another build for ZvZ, but right now I'm just focused on perfecting this one. It's been an immediate 1000% difference in my play.
The single most important thing to get good in Starcraft II is learn how to play a single build well and perfect it. You will see improvement immediately, and will be able to improve in all aspects (micro, macro, army positioning, properly responding) simultaneously by constraining yourself. If you instead try to 'wing it' for your builds, you'll end up with unfocused practice, swapping builds randomly, and never teaching your hands how to win the game for you.
Zerg. I have to admit my plan was pretty loose (read: undefined) at the start, but after the first match I essentially wanted to do something like this - 15 pool, 16 hatch, get some lings, ling speed and roaches and put some pressure as soon as +1 armor finishes. Assuming the pressure was at least somewhat successful, use it to expand again. After that, apply banelings and / or mutas and / or infestors as needed. Seemed like a decent enough timing for the first push (and even if it's not, it's -a- timing, which was good enough to hang my hat on for now) but I don't think I actually got that far in either of the two games afterwards.
They weren't short games either, I wasn't rushed. There was nothing much in my way to put this plan together. I was trying to prevent spending too much time in the planning phase and coming up with this super elaborate plan that my -10 APM hands wouldn't be able to pull off, the whole keep-it-simple, stupid approach. I fell into that approach too much last time where I all my time watching replays, day9 etc and got increasingly worried about playing to the point where I just wouldn't at all.
A simple gameplan is important, speedling into banelings and / or mutas and / or infestors is not a simple game plan. That's pretty much winging it on the fly.
Start with the 11 pool 18 hatch build for all matchups and:
ZvZ go pure roach and then a 50/50 Roach/Hydra mix. Extra queens and a few spores if they go mutas. The 11 pool will save you if there's early pressure and then you just chill on one base for a bit longer and expand later.
ZvP roach hydra and corruptors to keep those collosi in check. (watch for cheese and DT's)
ZvT Asston of banelings, lings and roach. Pure burrow roach if they go mech. (watch out for cheese and Banshees)
Upgrades are really important and get another hatch in your main base of you can't keep up with larvae enough to keep your minerals low. God knows I can't.
Thanks so much for the advice guys! I'm watching the Day9 daily now (I hadn't actually seen that one - it was cast while I wasn't playing and I must've missed it in the archive) and I'll take that, as well as the more specific and detailed stuff you fine folk wrote here and come up with more manageable, straightforward but also more precise game plans against all 3 races.
Thanks peacekeeper for the daily tip (I do watch quite a bit of replays as well), and zerg rush and Movitz for the specific game plan advice.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
just remember, if you ever plan to go mutas, make sure you DO something with the map control they give you
take another expansion, drone up, whatever, but the single greatest terrified moment of a Protoss' game is when mutas hit their minerals and they only have ground troops like stalkers to defend. even if you do no damage, especially in the lower leagues, you will so frustrate your opponent that he will completely forget how to play.
Thanks so much for the advice guys! I'm watching the Day9 daily now (I hadn't actually seen that one - it was cast while I wasn't playing and I must've missed it in the archive) and I'll take that, as well as the more specific and detailed stuff you fine folk wrote here and come up with more manageable, straightforward but also more precise game plans against all 3 races.
Thanks peacekeeper for the daily tip (I do watch quite a bit of replays as well), and zerg rush and Movitz for the specific game plan advice.
After day9, I'd specifically recommend ZvZ ZvP ZvT
Day 9 gives good general advice on how to improve your gameplay and how to come up with your own plan. That's nice and it has it's place, but there are a lot of people who watch day 9 then say "hmm that's good, I'll work on my drone balance" then end up doing the exact same thing as before. I know that's how I was with my zerg play. Comparatively, these things are blueprints to victory. Follow them, you'll keep winning until a couple months down the road people develop the counters. The better you get at following them and learning to execute them, the more hardcore you'll win.
Ahahaha, oh 11pool 18 hatch aren't you the bestest. Those 1 in 20 games where they scout you just right and thinks you're going a 10pool rush and responds by turteling their asses off with cannons are the greatest.
Personally, I've always been pretty aware of the 11 pool, so much so that I once got caught with my pants around my ankles by what was actually a 10 pool.
has anyone tried a fast immortal for defense on close maps? like 1 gate robo?
for all I know lots of people have, I actually have no idea though which isn't good
Against Z when I expect 5rr or 7rr yes. I've beaten Plats with that which for me is good but I wouldn't ever do it against T 'cause marines kills it so fast. I see other P use it against P as well
I actually use 1 gate 1 robo against T almost exclusively.
You can usually hold off any early 1 base push with just the gateway units... and the immortal is like your sexy insurance. It means if they fuck up and lose more units than they should, you can apply pressure as well.
Sceptre on
0
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I prefer 3gate expand vs terran with heavy zealot sentry.
you can kill so much infantry with zealots when they can't escape the slashing psi blades of doom
I actually use 1 gate 1 robo against T almost exclusively.
You can usually hold off any early 1 base push with just the gateway units... and the immortal is like your sexy insurance. It means if they fuck up and lose more units than they should, you can apply pressure as well.
this is what I thought. if you go three gate robo but get the robo fast, the immortal is actually quite strong because of the small numbers of aggression that early.
I guess it's the slightly early aggression that's actually an issue.
marines are good against immortals, but not so good that a handful of them will kill an immortal and couple of stalkers. I don't think.
Posts
Hard AI is like gold more or less.
Seguer was talking about it a while back, and I've seen HuK do it a few times.
You're safer vs banshees and early marauder attacks but weaker to marine/scv pushes, and marine/marauder stim/shells timing attacks.
thanks
I don't think they'll take Terran out of the game
edit: what does "toss sagi" mean?
throw down at least 6-8 additional gates so that when you lose your army you can be sort of pseudo-zerg and replenish 50-60 supply instantly
Strangely I wasn't actually panicked or particularly nervous, just completely incompetent. Weird. I'll take a bit of a break and get back to it.
What is your plan in each match up
Yeah it loses pretty hardcore to marines.
I was actually talking about a Protoss 1-1-1, but it does involve the fast robo.
I think it could be made to work, if you can scout them properly (and you know what you're looking for)
My opponent built pure offensive cannons.
And when I picked that apart with roaches he built tons more cannons at his ramp, pretty much bankrupting himself and mining out his main.
Followed up with 6 super late void rays!
jungle basin is perfect for this
two pylons and a cannon directly behind and between them can hit the hatchery
Zerg. I have to admit my plan was pretty loose (read: undefined) at the start, but after the first match I essentially wanted to do something like this - 15 pool, 16 hatch, get some lings, ling speed and roaches and put some pressure as soon as +1 armor finishes. Assuming the pressure was at least somewhat successful, use it to expand again. After that, apply banelings and / or mutas and / or infestors as needed. Seemed like a decent enough timing for the first push (and even if it's not, it's -a- timing, which was good enough to hang my hat on for now) but I don't think I actually got that far in either of the two games afterwards.
They weren't short games either, I wasn't rushed. There was nothing much in my way to put this plan together. I was trying to prevent spending too much time in the planning phase and coming up with this super elaborate plan that my -10 APM hands wouldn't be able to pull off, the whole keep-it-simple, stupid approach. I fell into that approach too much last time where I all my time watching replays, day9 etc and got increasingly worried about playing to the point where I just wouldn't at all.
he might right now, but he usually plays terrible euro-trashy house
here's a replay against a 2300 zerg player who went muta/ling off two bases...a fairly standard opener that normally gives me a lot of trouble, but the heavy sentry count meant that his spine crawlers didnt do as much as they normally would since i had no armoured units. And the same heavy sentry count meant that when he did get mutas out, I wrecked them despite him executing the build what seemed like flawlessly and popping out 7-8 mutas almost as soon as the spire had been up for the required amount of time.
disclaimer: this replay is pretty much me showing off a total win, but its more to illustrate the build and hopefully help you guys find holes in it for me to plug so that i can stomp you all in the face later
Here's the build order
13 gate
15 gas
16 pylon
18 core
--
don't have supply numbers after this
--
second gas
second gateway in base
begin warpgate tech as soon as the core is done and chronoboost as much as is possible
proxy pylon, proxy gate immediately when it finishes. use scout probe to do this if its alive
fourth gate
make a proxy pylon near your opponent like a standard 4gate if your hidden gate/pylon isn't already close enough
from there its a standard 4gate. hits at roughly the same time but is not nearly as easy to see coming
mass hostile mule mining, incredible
Rakkah I assume you've watched daily 194 about drones, it's zerg biggest strength. And watched some replays of good zerg players?
Having a defined plan at the start is really, really good. Keep in mind that plan encompasses a lot more than just an opening. It's a blueprint for victory. It saves you from having to think in game. Unless it's something crazy like, "OMFG mothership+warp prism harass", you should have a plan for what to do against it.
Eg, I'm currently learning zerg. This plan was taken from here.
From here what I see will dictate what I do...
But I'm not going to encounter this in the ladder. If I were a pro-gamer like Idra my build wouldn't be enough, but for learning Zerg it's almost overkill
- I don't need to worry about what to do with my overlords; my build tells me that already (keep them along the attack path, unless the enemy gets muta or hydra).
- I don't need to worry about spending my money; my build already has me at sub~200 resources until the 10 minute mark.
- I don't need to worry about when to attack; my build will tell me to do that automatically based on what I scout.
- I don't need to worry about grabbing an expansion; my build has that built in.
- I don't need to worry about when to pump drones or pump units; my build has that covered too.
The only thing I need to worry about is executing my build well, and doing what I've been practicing. All my concentration is focused on that, and now my ZvZ is stupidly good. Eventually, I'll need to learn another build for ZvZ, but right now I'm just focused on perfecting this one. It's been an immediate 1000% difference in my play.The single most important thing to get good in Starcraft II is learn how to play a single build well and perfect it. You will see improvement immediately, and will be able to improve in all aspects (micro, macro, army positioning, properly responding) simultaneously by constraining yourself. If you instead try to 'wing it' for your builds, you'll end up with unfocused practice, swapping builds randomly, and never teaching your hands how to win the game for you.
A simple gameplan is important, speedling into banelings and / or mutas and / or infestors is not a simple game plan. That's pretty much winging it on the fly.
Start with the 11 pool 18 hatch build for all matchups and:
ZvZ go pure roach and then a 50/50 Roach/Hydra mix. Extra queens and a few spores if they go mutas. The 11 pool will save you if there's early pressure and then you just chill on one base for a bit longer and expand later.
ZvP roach hydra and corruptors to keep those collosi in check. (watch for cheese and DT's)
ZvT Asston of banelings, lings and roach. Pure burrow roach if they go mech. (watch out for cheese and Banshees)
Upgrades are really important and get another hatch in your main base of you can't keep up with larvae enough to keep your minerals low. God knows I can't.
Thanks peacekeeper for the daily tip (I do watch quite a bit of replays as well), and zerg rush and Movitz for the specific game plan advice.
take another expansion, drone up, whatever, but the single greatest terrified moment of a Protoss' game is when mutas hit their minerals and they only have ground troops like stalkers to defend. even if you do no damage, especially in the lower leagues, you will so frustrate your opponent that he will completely forget how to play.
After day9, I'd specifically recommend
ZvZ
ZvP
ZvT
Day 9 gives good general advice on how to improve your gameplay and how to come up with your own plan. That's nice and it has it's place, but there are a lot of people who watch day 9 then say "hmm that's good, I'll work on my drone balance" then end up doing the exact same thing as before. I know that's how I was with my zerg play. Comparatively, these things are blueprints to victory. Follow them, you'll keep winning until a couple months down the road people develop the counters. The better you get at following them and learning to execute them, the more hardcore you'll win.
oh wait... 8-)
Against Z when I expect 5rr or 7rr yes. I've beaten Plats with that which for me is good but I wouldn't ever do it against T 'cause marines kills it so fast. I see other P use it against P as well
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
You can usually hold off any early 1 base push with just the gateway units... and the immortal is like your sexy insurance. It means if they fuck up and lose more units than they should, you can apply pressure as well.
you can kill so much infantry with zealots when they can't escape the slashing psi blades of doom
CHECK OUT THE NEW THREAD HERE!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
this is what I thought. if you go three gate robo but get the robo fast, the immortal is actually quite strong because of the small numbers of aggression that early.
I guess it's the slightly early aggression that's actually an issue.
marines are good against immortals, but not so good that a handful of them will kill an immortal and couple of stalkers. I don't think.