do you seriously not understand why there might be downsides to feeling the thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations of billions of other people?
Well, there would be no more war, conflict or strife of any kind I would imagine... The hungry would be fed, the sick cared for...
not necessarily true - if a hivemind sees everybody as equal parts to itself, it will let parts die in order to preserve resources and keep the healthy portions functioning correctly.
But feeling the cost in life and comfort, we'd be able to truly appreciate its value. No sacrifice would be meaningless, no suffering would be wrongfully ignored.
or we're just as expendable because we are gears in a machine. tell me, do you have a stronger emotional connection to one of your internal organs over another?
No, I don't share empathy with my physical body.
So why would the hive mind?
I don't think it would necessarily create empathy (though that would be awesome) but I know I don't give away or damage my own organs lightly. I don't need to cry over them or love one more than the other to preserve them. Shit hurts.
So life would not be appreciated, because there is no emotional connection to it. Just as skin cells on your body die all the time and you feel nothing, a hive mind would not feel anything for the deaths of people, either.
Life of the hive mind would be appreciated.
Or are you saying it's a bad thing that we don't feel anything for our skin cells?
No.
We would not appreciate life more than we do now, that is the claim. The hive mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The bodies it is made up of do, but like skin cells, they have no value to us. Life would cease to have value.
Being the Borg / Zerg / Human Ant Colony would be pretty awesome in terms of pure efficiency
As long as our goal as a society is to just....function. Never making anything original, never progressing.
This is just silly.
Leave a man completely alone and he'll make plenty of original stuff and progress all the time. You don't need other people to be able to think.
Progress is also one of those things that would get bloody efficient.
Thats not a fair example though. We're not talking about one guy on an island for a little while who learns how to build a better mouse trap.
We're talking about 6 billion humans learning and adapting to the seismic shifts that will occur in a society.
Learning to adapt in society leads to adapting in society no progress other than that
It is a fair example. There is no way that being able to think as one would limt progress in any way. All the knowledge and ability to experience new things of 6 billion humans, in one mind
The entire concept is ridiculous, people define themselves on individuality, we could no more be a hive mind then we could be Zeus lord of thunder.
Depends on how tight the bonds are; we could probably conceivably have some shared emotional or sensory component, but anything closer than that and you're right--we're no longer imagining anything which recognizably contains ourselves, and, as such, it is senseless to talk about us, personally being a 'part' of it.
Man... I can't believe I forgot my flash drive and my chap stick today. I gotta use IE6 again, and I may end up twitching a little before going home without the chap stick... >.>
do you seriously not understand why there might be downsides to feeling the thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations of billions of other people?
Well, there would be no more war, conflict or strife of any kind I would imagine... The hungry would be fed, the sick cared for...
not necessarily true - if a hivemind sees everybody as equal parts to itself, it will let parts die in order to preserve resources and keep the healthy portions functioning correctly.
But feeling the cost in life and comfort, we'd be able to truly appreciate its value. No sacrifice would be meaningless, no suffering would be wrongfully ignored.
or we're just as expendable because we are gears in a machine. tell me, do you have a stronger emotional connection to one of your internal organs over another?
No, I don't share empathy with my physical body.
So why would the hive mind?
I don't think it would necessarily create empathy (though that would be awesome) but I know I don't give away or damage my own organs lightly. I don't need to cry over them or love one more than the other to preserve them. Shit hurts.
So life would not be appreciated, because there is no emotional connection to it. Just as skin cells on your body die all the time and you feel nothing, a hive mind would not feel anything for the deaths of people, either.
Life of the hive mind would be appreciated.
Or are you saying it's a bad thing that we don't feel anything for our skin cells?
No.
We would not appreciate life more than we do now, that is the claim. The hive mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The bodies it is made up of do, but like skin cells, they have no value to us. Life would cease to have value.
The mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The cells it is made up of do but, they have no value to us. Life has no value.
It is exactly the same.
Except it's more like brain cells dying than skin cells.
mmm, just imagine all that incurable cancer you'd feel all the time
If it damages the hive mind, the hive mind would get its shit together and cure cancer. No scientific frontier will remain a mystery for long when you have 6 billion brains focusing on solving one problem.
... and the hive mind would genetically engineer a real Lola Bunny because furries help make up the hive mind, too.
Being the Borg / Zerg / Human Ant Colony would be pretty awesome in terms of pure efficiency
As long as our goal as a society is to just....function. Never making anything original, never progressing.
This is just silly.
Leave a man completely alone and he'll make plenty of original stuff and progress all the time. You don't need other people to be able to think.
Progress is also one of those things that would get bloody efficient.
Thats not a fair example though. We're not talking about one guy on an island for a little while who learns how to build a better mouse trap.
We're talking about 6 billion humans learning and adapting to the seismic shifts that will occur in a society.
Learning to adapt in society leads to adapting in society no progress other than that
It is a fair example. There is no way that being able to think as one would limt progress in any way. All the knowledge and ability to experience new things of 6 billion humans, in one mind
1 mind is not capable of the thought that 6 billion are. Our brains don't work that way. You'll miss something, or whatever. The best writers still need editors.
Or you're talking about the hive mind being some perfect deity of logic and intelligence in which case this discussion is pointless because its just god with a sci-fi twist.
do you seriously not understand why there might be downsides to feeling the thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations of billions of other people?
Well, there would be no more war, conflict or strife of any kind I would imagine... The hungry would be fed, the sick cared for...
not necessarily true - if a hivemind sees everybody as equal parts to itself, it will let parts die in order to preserve resources and keep the healthy portions functioning correctly.
But feeling the cost in life and comfort, we'd be able to truly appreciate its value. No sacrifice would be meaningless, no suffering would be wrongfully ignored.
or we're just as expendable because we are gears in a machine. tell me, do you have a stronger emotional connection to one of your internal organs over another?
No, I don't share empathy with my physical body.
So why would the hive mind?
I don't think it would necessarily create empathy (though that would be awesome) but I know I don't give away or damage my own organs lightly. I don't need to cry over them or love one more than the other to preserve them. Shit hurts.
So life would not be appreciated, because there is no emotional connection to it. Just as skin cells on your body die all the time and you feel nothing, a hive mind would not feel anything for the deaths of people, either.
Life of the hive mind would be appreciated.
Or are you saying it's a bad thing that we don't feel anything for our skin cells?
No.
We would not appreciate life more than we do now, that is the claim. The hive mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The bodies it is made up of do, but like skin cells, they have no value to us. Life would cease to have value.
The mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The cells it is made up of do but, they have no value to us. Life has no value.
It is exactly the same.
Except it's more like brain cells dying than skin cells.
Yes, so life has no value now. That would not change. The claim I'm countering is that life would be more important if we shared a conscious.
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
Being the Borg / Zerg / Human Ant Colony would be pretty awesome in terms of pure efficiency
As long as our goal as a society is to just....function. Never making anything original, never progressing.
This is just silly.
Leave a man completely alone and he'll make plenty of original stuff and progress all the time. You don't need other people to be able to think.
Progress is also one of those things that would get bloody efficient.
Thats not a fair example though. We're not talking about one guy on an island for a little while who learns how to build a better mouse trap.
We're talking about 6 billion humans learning and adapting to the seismic shifts that will occur in a society.
Learning to adapt in society leads to adapting in society no progress other than that
It is a fair example. There is no way that being able to think as one would limt progress in any way. All the knowledge and ability to experience new things of 6 billion humans, in one mind
1 mind is not capable of the thought that 6 billion are. Our brains don't work that way. You'll miss something, or whatever. The best writers still need editors.
Or you're talking about the hive mind being some perfect deity of logic and intelligence in which case this discussion is pointless because its just god with a sci-fi twist.
It is not a perfect deity of logic and intelligence but it is the best being of logic and intelligence humans can be. A writer would not need an editor if he knew what the editor knew.
Being the Borg / Zerg / Human Ant Colony would be pretty awesome in terms of pure efficiency
As long as our goal as a society is to just....function. Never making anything original, never progressing.
This is just silly.
Leave a man completely alone and he'll make plenty of original stuff and progress all the time. You don't need other people to be able to think.
Progress is also one of those things that would get bloody efficient.
Thats not a fair example though. We're not talking about one guy on an island for a little while who learns how to build a better mouse trap.
We're talking about 6 billion humans learning and adapting to the seismic shifts that will occur in a society.
Learning to adapt in society leads to adapting in society no progress other than that
It is a fair example. There is no way that being able to think as one would limt progress in any way. All the knowledge and ability to experience new things of 6 billion humans, in one mind
1 mind is not capable of the thought that 6 billion are. Our brains don't work that way. You'll miss something, or whatever. The best writers still need editors.
Or you're talking about the hive mind being some perfect deity of logic and intelligence in which case this discussion is pointless because its just god with a sci-fi twist.
1 unified existence with the resources of 6 billion individuals.
do you seriously not understand why there might be downsides to feeling the thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations of billions of other people?
Well, there would be no more war, conflict or strife of any kind I would imagine... The hungry would be fed, the sick cared for...
not necessarily true - if a hivemind sees everybody as equal parts to itself, it will let parts die in order to preserve resources and keep the healthy portions functioning correctly.
But feeling the cost in life and comfort, we'd be able to truly appreciate its value. No sacrifice would be meaningless, no suffering would be wrongfully ignored.
or we're just as expendable because we are gears in a machine. tell me, do you have a stronger emotional connection to one of your internal organs over another?
No, I don't share empathy with my physical body.
So why would the hive mind?
I don't think it would necessarily create empathy (though that would be awesome) but I know I don't give away or damage my own organs lightly. I don't need to cry over them or love one more than the other to preserve them. Shit hurts.
So life would not be appreciated, because there is no emotional connection to it. Just as skin cells on your body die all the time and you feel nothing, a hive mind would not feel anything for the deaths of people, either.
Life of the hive mind would be appreciated.
Or are you saying it's a bad thing that we don't feel anything for our skin cells?
No.
We would not appreciate life more than we do now, that is the claim. The hive mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The bodies it is made up of do, but like skin cells, they have no value to us. Life would cease to have value.
The mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The cells it is made up of do but, they have no value to us. Life has no value.
It is exactly the same.
Except it's more like brain cells dying than skin cells.
Yes, so life has no value now. That would not change. The claim I'm countering is that life would be more important if we shared a conscious.
oh yeah, hah, I missed the post that claimed that altogether
But yeah. If life has no value now it has no then.
do you seriously not understand why there might be downsides to feeling the thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations of billions of other people?
Well, there would be no more war, conflict or strife of any kind I would imagine... The hungry would be fed, the sick cared for...
not necessarily true - if a hivemind sees everybody as equal parts to itself, it will let parts die in order to preserve resources and keep the healthy portions functioning correctly.
But feeling the cost in life and comfort, we'd be able to truly appreciate its value. No sacrifice would be meaningless, no suffering would be wrongfully ignored.
or we're just as expendable because we are gears in a machine. tell me, do you have a stronger emotional connection to one of your internal organs over another?
No, I don't share empathy with my physical body.
So why would the hive mind?
I don't think it would necessarily create empathy (though that would be awesome) but I know I don't give away or damage my own organs lightly. I don't need to cry over them or love one more than the other to preserve them. Shit hurts.
So life would not be appreciated, because there is no emotional connection to it. Just as skin cells on your body die all the time and you feel nothing, a hive mind would not feel anything for the deaths of people, either.
Life of the hive mind would be appreciated.
Or are you saying it's a bad thing that we don't feel anything for our skin cells?
No.
We would not appreciate life more than we do now, that is the claim. The hive mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The bodies it is made up of do, but like skin cells, they have no value to us. Life would cease to have value.
The mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The cells it is made up of do but, they have no value to us. Life has no value.
It is exactly the same.
Except it's more like brain cells dying than skin cells.
Yes, so life has no value now. That would not change. The claim I'm countering is that life would be more important if we shared a conscious.
oh yeah, hah, I missed the post that claimed that altogether
But yeah. If life has no value now it has no then.
That's my bad. I was operating from the notion of shared empathy, which was proposed as being really bad earlier. My argument was meant more towards that... if we existed in a state of shared empathy, that pain would matter. How best to deal with that pain would probably depend, though, but I don't cut off fingers when they hurt.
But it's not like life has any inherent value, I guess. I'm not sure.
It is not a perfect deity of logic and intelligence but it is the best being of logic and intelligence humans can be. A writer would not need an editor if he knew what the editor knew.
also I adored jonathan strange. It was very dense but with a good directorbit could make a fine movie
I loved that book, but odds of a movie not getting fucked up seem low.
Corvus on
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited December 2010
The biggest problem with a full-on hivemind will be that eugenics and various flavors of -cide will be in full effect, as the overconscious seeks a purer, more efficient body.
That said, I suspect something a little less bidirectional will occur first, some sort of "always-on" wikipedia for the sum of human knowledge... something far more useful than full-on empathy and distributed computing, IMO.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
it's weird, I think we don't consider an individual cell as life unless it is the only cell in an organism. not that we should spend time mourning over dead skin cells, but there does seem to be a slightly arbitrary definition
The biggest problem with a full-on hivemind will be that eugenics and various flavors of -cide will be in full effect, as the overconscious seeks a purer, more efficient body.
That said, I suspect something a little less bidirectional will occur first, some sort of "always-on" wikipedia for the sum of human knowledge... something far more useful than full-on empathy and distributed computing, IMO.
the first thing is not a problem at all
unless you don't like your cells dying and being replaced by healthier cells
we don't mean an overconscious made up of many consciousnesses, we mean one consciousness
the overconsciousness thing, a mind hive if you will, yeah that could suck a bit
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
The idea of a hive mind is the worst thing ever. Acting as and being part of some greater whole would be so shitty without some individual interest.
Fuck efficiency as a society, I want to fulfill my individual desires.
Posts
pleasepaypreacher.net
There are worse ways to go.
Well I'm not sure I want to experience Bertha the 600 pound woman down the road experience an orgasm.
No.
We would not appreciate life more than we do now, that is the claim. The hive mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The bodies it is made up of do, but like skin cells, they have no value to us. Life would cease to have value.
Quarterbacks are pussies, Terry Tate ain't no pussy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94
pleasepaypreacher.net
Learning to adapt in society leads to adapting in society no progress other than that
It is a fair example. There is no way that being able to think as one would limt progress in any way. All the knowledge and ability to experience new things of 6 billion humans, in one mind
And I couldn't opt out.
I would kill myself.
This is one of the most horrifying things I can think of. Just ugh.
Depends on how tight the bonds are; we could probably conceivably have some shared emotional or sensory component, but anything closer than that and you're right--we're no longer imagining anything which recognizably contains ourselves, and, as such, it is senseless to talk about us, personally being a 'part' of it.
But what if we were
it's a human centipede, made up of 6 billion people!
so much shitting, so much eating
The mind is intangible, it is not an organism unto itself and it has no life. The cells it is made up of do but, they have no value to us. Life has no value.
It is exactly the same.
Except it's more like brain cells dying than skin cells.
If it damages the hive mind, the hive mind would get its shit together and cure cancer. No scientific frontier will remain a mystery for long when you have 6 billion brains focusing on solving one problem.
... and the hive mind would genetically engineer a real Lola Bunny because furries help make up the hive mind, too.
1 mind is not capable of the thought that 6 billion are. Our brains don't work that way. You'll miss something, or whatever. The best writers still need editors.
Or you're talking about the hive mind being some perfect deity of logic and intelligence in which case this discussion is pointless because its just god with a sci-fi twist.
so a hive mind would be one people
done!
Yes, so life has no value now. That would not change. The claim I'm countering is that life would be more important if we shared a conscious.
What if we had like superpowers or something.
Whoa...
You guys smoke a lot of pot.
pleasepaypreacher.net
It is not a perfect deity of logic and intelligence but it is the best being of logic and intelligence humans can be. A writer would not need an editor if he knew what the editor knew.
1 unified existence with the resources of 6 billion individuals.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the Penny Arcade forums!
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
I have met an astounding number of people who have never been high off of marijuana or any other drug
this is weird, because when I hadn't, everyone I knew had and when I finally did nobody else seems to
oh yeah, hah, I missed the post that claimed that altogether
But yeah. If life has no value now it has no then.
duuuuuuude
No, this is a good discussion. good points brought up, no feelings to get hurt because there are no hive minds currently [chat]ting.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
That's my bad. I was operating from the notion of shared empathy, which was proposed as being really bad earlier. My argument was meant more towards that... if we existed in a state of shared empathy, that pain would matter. How best to deal with that pain would probably depend, though, but I don't cut off fingers when they hurt.
But it's not like life has any inherent value, I guess. I'm not sure.
I still say either teleportation or cold/fire abilities would be the greatest.
Then you don't get the point to an editor.
A new thread fir the hive mind thing or the furry thing? I have thoughts on both.
I loved that book, but odds of a movie not getting fucked up seem low.
That said, I suspect something a little less bidirectional will occur first, some sort of "always-on" wikipedia for the sum of human knowledge... something far more useful than full-on empathy and distributed computing, IMO.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
And we claim the reason humanity discovers more is that knowledge is shared when more people are around
the more people, the more knowledge, and the more they can share, the more knowledge can be used
not that it is because... I don't know. What other reason is there for more people to discover more than that there are more knowledge and more input?
But perfect unity of thought destroys exactly what makes having more people around useful.
You seem to be going to a perfect method of communication, not a perfect hive mind.
the first thing is not a problem at all
unless you don't like your cells dying and being replaced by healthier cells
we don't mean an overconscious made up of many consciousnesses, we mean one consciousness
the overconsciousness thing, a mind hive if you will, yeah that could suck a bit
Fuck efficiency as a society, I want to fulfill my individual desires.