I remember a buddy of mine complaining about "the old cliche of a super-hero having an illicit affair with their teenage sidekick" and how it's so lame and overdone
and i asked him to name an example of that actually happening in comic books, and not just in the minds of fanfic writers or parodies of comic books
he thought about it
only to realize actually it's not really a cliche at all because even though it seems like a totally obvious story to tell, it really hasn't been told that much if ever
right, it comes up a lot in parodies of super-hero stuff
usually it's simply implied or drawn parallel to rather than played straight
it's all over the place in the satire of comic books (stuff like The Tick or the Venture Brothers is a good example)
but in mainstream super-hero comic books?
you know I honestly can't think of a single example of a hero fucking their sidekick
Eh, the whole "let's deconstruct superheroes and show how they'd all be horrible, dysfunctional, abusive scumbags in real life" trope has been done for at least the past 20 years, so at this point I doubt there's much new insight to be gleaned from yet another tilt at the superhero windmill.
uh
done by who, Lawndart?
Alan Moore is really the only person I can think of who has done that, via Watchmen
sure, super-hero comic books went through a hilariousy "dark" period in the 1980's and 90's (well, the 90's was more XTREME than dark but whatever) where super-heroes became gun-toting mercenaries with Oedipus complexes and shit
but there was no self-aware commentary there, just an irrelevant industry that was trying to modernize itself and doing badly
you might think that this is something that has been done to death for decades but I think that's just you wishing it was
it really hasn't
There's really only three people doing it, Ennis, Millar, and Moore.
The rest are 90's stereotypes
i don't know what Mark Millar is doing in terms of this
but yes Garth Ennis is another one who tilts at the windmill of super-hero comics
Eh, the whole "let's deconstruct superheroes and show how they'd all be horrible, dysfunctional, abusive scumbags in real life" trope has been done for at least the past 20 years, so at this point I doubt there's much new insight to be gleaned from yet another tilt at the superhero windmill.
uh
done by who, Lawndart?
Alan Moore is really the only person I can think of who has done that, via Watchmen
sure, super-hero comic books went through a hilariousy "dark" period in the 1980's and 90's (well, the 90's was more XTREME than dark but whatever) where super-heroes became gun-toting mercenaries with Oedipus complexes and shit
but there was no self-aware commentary there, just an irrelevant industry that was trying to modernize itself and doing badly
you might think that this is something that has been done to death for decades but I think that's just you wishing it was
it really hasn't
There's really only three people doing it, Ennis, Millar, and Moore.
The rest are 90's stereotypes
i don't know what Mark Millar is doing in terms of this
but yes Garth Ennis is another one who tilts at the windmill of super-hero comics
A hero fucking their sidekick would be a good story if it hadn't already been played at in satire and fanfiction so much.
well see here's the interesting thing there
a weird thing i've noticed about super-hero comic books as a genre is because they are so cliche-ridden and reliant on status quo establishments and tropes and archetypes
there's a lot of ideas people assume would have been done already, but really they've only been the subject of satire or parody or whatever and never really shows up "for reals" in the mainstream super-hero books
for example the whole "Women in Refigerators" thing, was basically an overblown bunch of hand-wringing at the idea that female super-heroes are disproportionately raped, brutalized, killed, and victimized than male super-heroes.
But when you actually looked at super-hero comics and tried to find some kind of statistical grounds for the argument, it actually didn't pass muster and was more of a perception than an actual cliche or trope.
there's actually very little in the way of comic books that actively try to analyse and take apart super-hero mythology and concepts
there's a lot of "gritty" and "dark" comic books out there that might make the claim they're trying to do some higher level deconstruction of the genre, but really they just end up being an extreme example of the same bullshit.
see: All Punisher books ever written.
there only needs to be one and it did it quite well
The way certain ideas or beliefs about the characters with almost no backing in the source material, will take hold so strongly to the point they're considered common knowledge.
I bet at least a few pseud lit or pyscology papers could be written on the topic.
Guys someone come and get lunch with me, I'm hungry and don't want to go eat alone, and maybe you can bring some cocaine and if you have a car where we can store the hooker's body that'd be great.
Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
0
ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
Guys someone come and get lunch with me, I'm hungry and don't want to go eat alone, and maybe you can bring some cocaine and if you have a car where we can store the hooker's body that'd be great.
The way certain ideas or beliefs about the characters with almost no backing in the source material, will take hold so strongly to the point they're considered common knowledge.
I bet at least a few pseud lit or pyscology papers could be written on the topic.
see: how people who don't read Superman comics view Superman vs. people who actually read Superman comics
Guys someone come and get lunch with me, I'm hungry and don't want to go eat alone, and maybe you can bring some cocaine and if you have a car where we can store the hooker's body that'd be great.
canada is too far
Well if you don't want to work on our friendship, you are uninvited from my birthday party. Get out of my mom's house.
Guys someone come and get lunch with me, I'm hungry and don't want to go eat alone, and maybe you can bring some cocaine and if you have a car where we can store the hooker's body that'd be great.
Sure.
Abdhyius on
0
ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
Guys someone come and get lunch with me, I'm hungry and don't want to go eat alone, and maybe you can bring some cocaine and if you have a car where we can store the hooker's body that'd be great.
canada is too far
Well if you don't want to work on our friendship, you are uninvited from my birthday party. Get out of my mom's house.
Guys someone come and get lunch with me, I'm hungry and don't want to go eat alone, and maybe you can bring some cocaine and if you have a car where we can store the hooker's body that'd be great.
Sure.
Don't toy with my heart.
Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I've had lunch in canada
with cass
but it wasn't today and there was no coke or hookers
In terms of influence alone, good or bad, I think Hitler was the most influential person of the 20th Century.
My arguments for this are twofold:
1. By kicking off WWII, and antagonizing Josef Stalin, he catalysed the Soviet Union's and America's assent to superpowerdom, and that rivalry has impacted global politics even after the fall of the wall.
2. By kicking off the Holocaust, he also catalyzed Zionism and the creation of the Jewish state, and this has also had a major impact in the Middle East and its woes, although part of that is due to the East-West rivalry as well.
Basically his actions set the direction of Global Politics for like 50 years, and still has reprecussions today. That's hella influential.
Wilson did a lot more to trigger that rivalry then Hitler.
ya, ww1 OS the real key but is there one figure to blame as easily as Hitler? Kaiser Bill maybe? The Assassin? The various leaders of the coalition nations etc
It's not quite as much about WWI as it was the Allies directly intervening in the Russian Revolution. The paranoia of the USSR about foreign powers wasn't totally without cause.
I am still of the opinion that is ww1 and I'd fold the aftermath - whether that be the intervention in Russia, the Ottomans/Turkey/Greece/Syria etc, eastern Europe and what happened in the Empire or even China
Kalkino on
Freedom for the Northern Isles!
0
ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
Pony I am pretty certain that "Women in Fridges" thing bears out if you look at it in the original context (i.e. main-line stories)
and I also thought it was extended not only to female superheroes, but to all female characters in comics
the goalposts got moved several times by Gail Simone, originally it was just the love interests of super-heroes (the term itself came from Green Lantern's girlfriend's body being stuffed in a refrigerator) and then she extended it to female characters in super-hero comic books in general, and then only comic books made during a specific era, and then...
What Gail managed to show was that (gasp! shock! dismay!) super-hero comic books are sexist, and that power fantasies written for teenage boys often have somewhat misogynistic notions in them.
Which fully nobody should've been surprised at, really. However, the actual data Gail was using to make her argument was really, really bad. She basically just went "huh this seems like a lot" and made a list, without making any kind of list measuring how often the same happens to male characters, or what measure she was using for "brutal" besides just being killed off, etc.
It was basically "research" in the same way that Jack Thompson has "research" to show video games make children violent sociopaths.
Eh, the whole "let's deconstruct superheroes and show how they'd all be horrible, dysfunctional, abusive scumbags in real life" trope has been done for at least the past 20 years, so at this point I doubt there's much new insight to be gleaned from yet another tilt at the superhero windmill.
uh
done by who, Lawndart?
Alan Moore is really the only person I can think of who has done that, via Watchmen
sure, super-hero comic books went through a hilariousy "dark" period in the 1980's and 90's (well, the 90's was more XTREME than dark but whatever) where super-heroes became gun-toting mercenaries with Oedipus complexes and shit
but there was no self-aware commentary there, just an irrelevant industry that was trying to modernize itself and doing badly
you might think that this is something that has been done to death for decades but I think that's just you wishing it was
it really hasn't
There's really only three people doing it, Ennis, Millar, and Moore.
The rest are 90's stereotypes
i don't know what Mark Millar is doing in terms of this
but yes Garth Ennis is another one who tilts at the windmill of super-hero comics
guess who writes The Boys?
Millar did Civil War, the Ultimates, and Kick Ass, which are three stories specifically focused on deconstructing the super hero in general.
Pony I am pretty certain that "Women in Fridges" thing bears out if you look at it in the original context (i.e. main-line stories)
and I also thought it was extended not only to female superheroes, but to all female characters in comics
the goalposts got moved several times by Gail Simone, originally it was just the love interests of super-heroes (the term itself came from Green Lantern's girlfriend's body being stuffed in a refrigerator) and then she extended it to female characters in super-hero comic books in general, and then only comic books made during a specific era, and then...
What Gail managed to show was that (gasp! shock! dismay!) super-hero comic books are sexist, and that power fantasies written for teenage boys often have somewhat misogynistic notions in them.
Which fully nobody should've been surprised at, really. However, the actual data Gail was using to make her argument was really, really bad. She basically just went "huh this seems like a lot" and made a list, without making any kind of list measuring how often the same happens to male characters, or what measure she was using for "brutal" besides just being killed off, etc.
It was basically "research" in the same way that Jack Thompson has "research" to show video games make children violent sociopaths.
It's a perception.
I would think with the fixed goalposts of "female characters in comic books in mainstream titles" (what I thought it was) that this would all still hold up if you collected numbers
I mean I can barely even think of male characters who were ever permanently killed or seriously injured (permanently, not like killed and came back) outside of robin (s) and flash/blue beetle
in the future employers will require you to tell them the names of all your twitter and facebook and livejournal and other internet social networking site account names
so they can have a guy interstalk you and watch for you badmouthing the company or brag about being late or bagging off work
they will make this disclosure a provision of your hiring contract and if you fail to disclose any of your internet identities or gain new ones over time without telling human resources you can be fired
Posts
right, it comes up a lot in parodies of super-hero stuff
usually it's simply implied or drawn parallel to rather than played straight
it's all over the place in the satire of comic books (stuff like The Tick or the Venture Brothers is a good example)
but in mainstream super-hero comic books?
you know I honestly can't think of a single example of a hero fucking their sidekick
i don't know what Mark Millar is doing in terms of this
but yes Garth Ennis is another one who tilts at the windmill of super-hero comics
guess who writes The Boys?
it's me
i have the soft kitty
HATE
You already told us it was Garth Ennis
too easy
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
well see here's the interesting thing there
a weird thing i've noticed about super-hero comic books as a genre is because they are so cliche-ridden and reliant on status quo establishments and tropes and archetypes
there's a lot of ideas people assume would have been done already, but really they've only been the subject of satire or parody or whatever and never really shows up "for reals" in the mainstream super-hero books
for example the whole "Women in Refigerators" thing, was basically an overblown bunch of hand-wringing at the idea that female super-heroes are disproportionately raped, brutalized, killed, and victimized than male super-heroes.
But when you actually looked at super-hero comics and tried to find some kind of statistical grounds for the argument, it actually didn't pass muster and was more of a perception than an actual cliche or trope.
there only needs to be one and it did it quite well
The way certain ideas or beliefs about the characters with almost no backing in the source material, will take hold so strongly to the point they're considered common knowledge.
I bet at least a few pseud lit or pyscology papers could be written on the topic.
canada is too far
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
guess who had a SOFT KITTY sleeping with them tonight
it's me
I had the best sleep
see: how people who don't read Superman comics view Superman vs. people who actually read Superman comics
Well if you don't want to work on our friendship, you are uninvited from my birthday party. Get out of my mom's house.
and I also thought it was extended not only to female superheroes, but to all female characters in comics
Sure.
shit
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
keep dreaming big, nerd
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
Don't toy with my heart.
with cass
but it wasn't today and there was no coke or hookers
I am still of the opinion that is ww1 and I'd fold the aftermath - whether that be the intervention in Russia, the Ottomans/Turkey/Greece/Syria etc, eastern Europe and what happened in the Empire or even China
your story started out okay but the ending was a letdown
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
a lot of it is junk, but the best supes stories generally reach towards the core of what makes superhero mythology worthwhile
the goalposts got moved several times by Gail Simone, originally it was just the love interests of super-heroes (the term itself came from Green Lantern's girlfriend's body being stuffed in a refrigerator) and then she extended it to female characters in super-hero comic books in general, and then only comic books made during a specific era, and then...
What Gail managed to show was that (gasp! shock! dismay!) super-hero comic books are sexist, and that power fantasies written for teenage boys often have somewhat misogynistic notions in them.
Which fully nobody should've been surprised at, really. However, the actual data Gail was using to make her argument was really, really bad. She basically just went "huh this seems like a lot" and made a list, without making any kind of list measuring how often the same happens to male characters, or what measure she was using for "brutal" besides just being killed off, etc.
It was basically "research" in the same way that Jack Thompson has "research" to show video games make children violent sociopaths.
It's a perception.
No one will ever know.
except this whole forum because you just told us.
also since this forum is always the top google hit for everything, everyone in the entire world.
Millar did Civil War, the Ultimates, and Kick Ass, which are three stories specifically focused on deconstructing the super hero in general.
I would think with the fixed goalposts of "female characters in comic books in mainstream titles" (what I thought it was) that this would all still hold up if you collected numbers
I mean I can barely even think of male characters who were ever permanently killed or seriously injured (permanently, not like killed and came back) outside of robin (s) and flash/blue beetle
so they can have a guy interstalk you and watch for you badmouthing the company or brag about being late or bagging off work
they will make this disclosure a provision of your hiring contract and if you fail to disclose any of your internet identities or gain new ones over time without telling human resources you can be fired
lies
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=everything,+everyone+in+the+entire+world#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22everything%2C+everyone+in+the+entire+world%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=1bde53b2ade8e603
I guess I will play with the SE++ guys