The problem with our prison system is no one comes out of it better and a lot of people come out of it way worse.
So your point only holds up MM if we send everyone away for life.
That kid in there for robbery is going to get out eventually and when he does our prison system and shitty welfare system has made it highly likely he'll be back.
The problem with our prison system is no one comes out of it better and a lot of people come out of it way worse.
So your point only holds up MM if we send everyone away for life.
That kid in there for robbery is going to get out eventually and when he does our prison system and shitty welfare system has made it highly likely he'll be back.
If we assume that a high percentage of people who end up in prison are the type who commit multiple crimes, then even if they start committing crimes as soon as they get released, you're still ahead of the game because during the years they were in jail, they committed zero crimes.
Modern Man on
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
It would be one thing if our prison system was cheap and produced bad outcomes. Then maybe it'd be justifiable on grounds of limited resources. But it isn't! It's expensive an inefficient as fuck and still does about as poor a job of providing social benefit as you could possibly imagine.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The problem with our prison system is no one comes out of it better and a lot of people come out of it way worse.
So your point only holds up MM if we send everyone away for life.
That kid in there for robbery is going to get out eventually and when he does our prison system and shitty welfare system has made it highly likely he'll be back.
If we assume that a high percentage of people who end up in prison are the type who commit multiple crimes, then even if they start committing crimes as soon as they get released, you're still ahead of the game because during the years they were in jail, they committed zero crimes.
Thats not the point though.
It makes minor criminals worse. This is well documented. Go in for theft and come out for a little while before going back in for armed robbery.
I also think it's ridiculous to wave away any discussion of why people commit multiple, progressively worse crimes because "we stopped giving a shit about trying to rehabilitate some time ago," when that is the exact reason our prison system is such a mess (and it's decline in fact more or less correlates with our social decision to stop rehabilitating people.)
Why even talk about "reform" of the prison system if you're not willing to change the way it operates?
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It makes minor criminals worse. This is well documented. Go in for theft and come out for a little while before going back in for armed robbery.
The bolded is the key point. Of course rehabilitation is an awesome, first-best solution when it works. But minimizing the time criminals spend in civilized society is an effective, second-best solution.
I would argue that when possible we should remove them by house arrest except when at work or in rehab (hence tether) because of the lower costs and removing the network effect between prisoners/criminals. However, in terms of separating criminals from society, prisons are highly effective.
EDIT: And obviously drugs should be legalized. But that's a different topic.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Last week a diverse group of nonviolent protesters across Georgia stood up for their rights, calling for decent wages, better social services and respect for their civil liberties. It didn't take long for the government to crack down on the demonstrations, however: the protesters were already in prison.
...
The strike was called off after six days, following reports of violent crackdowns and rising fears that the situation would escalate. But by then, the inmates had made their mark with one of the largest prison protests in U.S. history. The decision to end the strike, moreover, seems like the beginning of another phase in the inmates' collective action, now that they've caught national political attention. The AJC reported:
an inmate at Smith State Prison in Glenville said in a telephone interview prisoners had agreed to end their “non-violent” protest to allow administrators time to focus on their concerns rather than operating the institutions without inmate labor.
"We've ended the protest,” said Mike, a convicted armed robber who was one of the inmates who planned and coordinated the work stoppage. “We needed to come off lock down so we can go to the law library and start ... the paperwork for a [prison conditions] lawsuit.
Basically, Georgia has an incarceration rate 16% higher than the national average while spending an average of $10k/year less per inmate than average. They also use inmate labor to maintain state property and for other tasks.
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So your point only holds up MM if we send everyone away for life.
That kid in there for robbery is going to get out eventually and when he does our prison system and shitty welfare system has made it highly likely he'll be back.
Rigorous Scholarship
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Thats not the point though.
It makes minor criminals worse. This is well documented. Go in for theft and come out for a little while before going back in for armed robbery.
Why even talk about "reform" of the prison system if you're not willing to change the way it operates?
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html
25% of federal prison inmates, and 42% of state prison inmates are serving time for drug offenses. That's insane.
The bolded is the key point. Of course rehabilitation is an awesome, first-best solution when it works. But minimizing the time criminals spend in civilized society is an effective, second-best solution.
I would argue that when possible we should remove them by house arrest except when at work or in rehab (hence tether) because of the lower costs and removing the network effect between prisoners/criminals. However, in terms of separating criminals from society, prisons are highly effective.
EDIT: And obviously drugs should be legalized. But that's a different topic.
Basically, Georgia has an incarceration rate 16% higher than the national average while spending an average of $10k/year less per inmate than average. They also use inmate labor to maintain state property and for other tasks.
NPR interview transcript on the same subject