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[WoW] Did anybody beta test this [Chat ant Generul Discushion]?

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    DacDac Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Really? Because I fucking HATE the long queue as DPS.

    Wait 30-40 minutes for a pop and get placed into an in-progress group, which 90% of the time means "this group failed so fucking hard that someone left."

    This has happened to me like five out of six times I've gotten into dungeons over the last few days, and it's irritating as Hell. I wish there was a 'no in-progress groups' selection.

    But then, I guess NO ONE would not use it.

    Dac on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I don't mind in progress runs, most of the time whoever left was the problem and I can help them finish. I do wish there was an option at earlier levels (like my wife during the dm/wc/sfk levels got in progress runs 4 times in a row).

    I've actually succeeded at more heroics then failed, I play horde though, maybe allies are having a tougher time with it? I recall back in the day in the "you suck we rule" days of being an ally it was accused of having more children then horde side.

    Preacher on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    I hopped in a normal this weekend to grind some rep. They are faceroll easy when you get to 340+ilvl

    Yeah even as a dps I find I can really help bully down encounters, I also found I pull aggro like no ones business by doing my simple rotation, got so bad I've had to sit on full energy bars with some tanks.

    Preacher on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Every single in progress group I've gotten into has been a success. (Edit: And I seem to recall there was one where I got in for like the last boss, which was nice.)

    Then there was the SFK group I was in with naphtali, where after the first two bosses we had yet to wipe, but had managed to go through three tanks because the first had a raid, the second I dunno, and the third just saw it was an in progress and left without saying anything. With the fourth tank, we did end up wiping on the last boss once or twice, but overall the run went pretty well and we did clear it.

    End on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    SFK only has one boss that is a beast (springvale) the first boss just demands you have an interrupter who knows what they are doing (two is best, but one will do in a pinch). The three "required" bosses don't seem very difficult at all with the last boss being a cake walk.

    Preacher on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    My Priest has only had one successful in-progress join, and that was a Vortex Pinnacle where I was the group's seventh healer and they were stuck on the second boss.

    korodullin on
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    simsim Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Did bliz overestimate how many people would want to play as healer/tank? Most of my groups are filled with hybrids in dps slots, and I'm one of them. Should 40 minute queue times be acceptable?

    I don't personally like to pug as healer or tank becaue of the time investment in the zone. You can zone out and dps well, but tanking and healing take more concentration - especially tanking because you're the instigator for everything in pugs. I don't want wotlkfaceroll, but over an hour for a 5 man is too much. Finding tanks won't be a problem when pugs can average under 40 minutes in the biggest zones.

    sim on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Well, with three pugs in the group, Naphtali seemed to think we were doing pretty good by not wiping on the first boss. :P

    It was my first time though, so I didn't really know what to expect.

    End on
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    LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    End wrote: »
    Well, with three pugs in the group, Naphtali seemed to think we were doing pretty good by not wiping on the first boss. :P

    It was my first time though, so I didn't really know what to expect.

    I pretty much stopped doing heroic pugs after the 3rd or 4th one I tried. Yay for guild groups.

    LockeCole on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    End wrote: »
    Well, with three pugs in the group, Naphtali seemed to think we were doing pretty good by not wiping on the first boss. :P

    It was my first time though, so I didn't really know what to expect.

    This kind of attitude is kind of insulting. Just because they are pug doesn't mean they are retards. Its like how casual is used as a negative thing when it just means someone who doesn't raid as often or as "hardcore".

    Preacher on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I usually do it with guildies too, but I don't always get a chance.

    End on
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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    sim wrote: »
    Did bliz overestimate how many people would want to play as healer/tank? Most of my groups are filled with hybrids in dps slots, and I'm one of them. Should 40 minute queue times be acceptable?

    I don't personally like to pug as healer or tank becaue of the time investment in the zone. You can zone out and dps well, but tanking and healing take more concentration - especially tanking because you're the instigator for everything in pugs. I don't want wotlkfaceroll, but over an hour for a 5 man is too much. Finding tanks won't be a problem when pugs can average under 40 minutes in the biggest zones.

    Apparently they did. Queues for DPS used to be 15 minutes and people whined about how heroics were too easy. Blizzard responded by making them harder and now it's 40 minute queues.

    It's not like the writing wasn't on the wall. The first hint they should have gotten was when tanks were dropping when they got the loading screen for HHoR.

    Nobody on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Preacher wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Well, with three pugs in the group, Naphtali seemed to think we were doing pretty good by not wiping on the first boss. :P

    It was my first time though, so I didn't really know what to expect.

    This kind of attitude is kind of insulting. Just because they are pug doesn't mean they are retards. Its like how casual is used as a negative thing when it just means someone who doesn't raid as often or as "hardcore".

    The average pug is not very good. I..don't really know what to say, it's really just the luck of the draw whether you get awful an player or not.

    Sometimes I pug too, so it's not like I'm not sometimes part of the population of pugs. I try not to be awful, and I really appreciate pugs that aren't awful.


    Edit: And, to be really really clear, and in Naphtali's defense: that's not the first time he's pugged that place, and I guess he normally had a rough time on that first boss, so um, there you go!

    Really, if anything, I was attempting to speak well of the people we happened to be grouped with. It was really just bizarre that we kept losing our tank.

    End on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Nobody wrote: »
    sim wrote: »
    Did bliz overestimate how many people would want to play as healer/tank? Most of my groups are filled with hybrids in dps slots, and I'm one of them. Should 40 minute queue times be acceptable?

    I don't personally like to pug as healer or tank becaue of the time investment in the zone. You can zone out and dps well, but tanking and healing take more concentration - especially tanking because you're the instigator for everything in pugs. I don't want wotlkfaceroll, but over an hour for a 5 man is too much. Finding tanks won't be a problem when pugs can average under 40 minutes in the biggest zones.

    Apparently they did. Queues for DPS used to be 15 minutes and people whined about how heroics were too easy. Blizzard responded by making them harder and now it's 40 minute queues.

    It's not like the writing wasn't on the wall. The first hint they should have gotten was when tanks were dropping when they got the loading screen for HHoR.

    Its new in the expansion, and I can tell you from when I played a tank at the start of Wrath it was a lot fucking longer for dps then 40 minutes. I got tells the second I logged in to run whatever the daily was to whatever someone wanted for a drop. This is the first expansion launch with the LFG system and we're less then a month in.

    Its also perception, I was worried as all get out to do my first heroic, did it, and was like "Man this wasn't as hard as I feared." Sure shit hits hard, but its not impossibly hard and eventually people will have more rep, crafted, drop gear to put on. I've already started to see that.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    ImthebOHGODBEESImthebOHGODBEES Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    I wish there was a way to use wands with abilities or otherwise see them more often in combat

    Don't really see how there is.

    They used to be in Vanilla and it sucked.

    I believe he simply means he wishes that the wand were used in some of the spell casting animations. Like melee uses our swords/axes/daggers/maces, hunters use their bows/guns, casters should use their wands, ala Mickey Mouse in The Sorcerer's Apprentice. Only more badass, since it IS Warcraft...

    I support him in this.

    ImthebOHGODBEES on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Perhaps I've just gotten lucky in Cata, or maybe it groups by item level, I dunno I've had more good heroics then bad. By virtue of it being a pug, doesn't mean its going to be hell on earth.

    Also as a dps I tend to get in 3/5 and 4/5 guild groups and they run smooth.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    sim wrote: »
    Did bliz overestimate how many people would want to play as healer/tank? Most of my groups are filled with hybrids in dps slots, and I'm one of them. Should 40 minute queue times be acceptable?

    I don't personally like to pug as healer or tank becaue of the time investment in the zone. You can zone out and dps well, but tanking and healing take more concentration - especially tanking because you're the instigator for everything in pugs. I don't want wotlkfaceroll, but over an hour for a 5 man is too much. Finding tanks won't be a problem when pugs can average under 40 minutes in the biggest zones.

    Meh, I often Shield Slam, Revenge, Shield Slam, look up something on the internet while tanking heroics during those single mob pulls. By the time a DPS can pull aggro off from me it is dead. Pretty face roll imo.

    Buddies on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    I wish there was a way to use wands with abilities or otherwise see them more often in combat

    Don't really see how there is.

    They used to be in Vanilla and it sucked.

    I believe he simply means he wishes that the wand were used in some of the spell casting animations. Like melee uses our swords/axes/daggers/maces, hunters use their bows/guns, casters should use their wands, ala Mickey Mouse in The Sorcerer's Apprentice. Only more badass, since it IS Warcraft...

    I support him in this.

    Yeah, being able to optionally use some wand-based animations would really rock for some of those races with very... "unfortunate" casting animations, like male Worgen.

    korodullin on
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    815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I think the only way to make the queues better for DPS is to make all five mans six mans.

    815165 on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Preacher wrote: »
    Perhaps I've just gotten lucky in Cata, or maybe it groups by item level, I dunno I've had more good heroics then bad. By virtue of it being a pug, doesn't mean its going to be hell on earth.

    Also as a dps I tend to get in 3/5 and 4/5 guild groups and they run smooth.

    There's definitely a luck factor.

    In terms of individuals, I've had some really bad ones. Fortunately, votekick can be an appropriate tool.

    For groups: I've had some groups clear the instance very smoothly.

    I've had some groups wipe and fall apart before they even reach the first boss.

    Edit: and as I mentioned before, the groups that I get into that are in-progress seem to have a higher success rate than from scratch, which is probably luck too, but there's also that.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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    Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Dac wrote: »
    Really? Because I fucking HATE the long queue as DPS.

    Wait 30-40 minutes for a pop and get placed into an in-progress group, which 90% of the time means "this group failed so fucking hard that someone left."

    This has happened to me like five out of six times I've gotten into dungeons over the last few days, and it's irritating as Hell. I wish there was a 'no in-progress groups' selection.

    But then, I guess NO ONE would not use it.

    ^ this. This right damn here. This is why for the most part I will deliberately wait on guildies to do heroics now. I cannot stand this crap.

    You know, one time I zoned in and the healer was actually wearing Naxx purples. God damn ilvl 200 epics. Never have I seen a more fail group.

    I really wish there was some sort of dps priority system for times like this. Like, you queue for 40 minutes, get in, and then wipe over and over and over. After X number of wipes (or maybe if the group breaks up before finishing the dungeon), you should get an option to re-queue towards the front of the line.

    Warlock82 on
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    sim wrote: »
    I'm having the opposite problem. People are becoming so paranoid that they run away from ground aoe heals. :rotate:
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    But guess what, players are trained to go "standing in something I've never seen before? better gtfo" You don't have time to read a tooltip "Does 500k fire damage per second for fiftee- oh look I am very dead" If you want people to stand in your graphical effect on the ground, explicitly tell them to stand in your graphical effect on the ground if you see that they are not doing it.

    This is a problem with WoW's set-up in general, in that there's nothing immediately obvious about which graphical effect on the ground is good to stand in versus which one isn't. Healing rain could just as easily be acid rain, and with the number of boss abilities (even at low levels!) that are "Stand here and die really quickly!," they've basically been training players to get the hell out of any circle effect. This goes doubly so when you mix in kick-happy PuG groups, who aren't very forgiving of "rookie mistakes."

    Blizzard's been doing a better job of training players how to play the game since 4.0, but there's still a lot of distance left to cover.

    Elvenshae on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I know there are a few boss abilities that, while not directly harmful to players, buff the boss/mob in a way that they need to be kited out of them.

    At least one looks almost exactly like the AoE healing thing Holy Priests can put down in a Chakra state.

    korodullin on
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    RendRend Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I had a tank in my guild flee out of a power word: barrier because it's a thing that popped up under him.

    He says in vent, "Oh, that was your barrier, huh."

    Walks back into it.

    Rend on
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    SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    We went back and did a quick guild run of Naxx last week. People (who hadn't been in Naxx before) were running into the green stuff on Grobulus, expecting to receive healing from our druids.

    Samphis on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Samphis wrote: »
    We went back and did a quick guild run of Naxx last week. People (who hadn't been in Naxx before) were running into the green stuff on Grobulus, expecting to receive healing from our druids.

    hahaha oh my

    (Not that I blame them for the confusion, even though the green stuff does look different, but that's pretty funny!)

    End on
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    CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    815165 wrote: »
    I think the only way to make the queues better for DPS is to make all five mans six mans.

    This is actually a fantastic idea, I support this.

    CasedOut on
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    CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    sim wrote: »
    Did bliz overestimate how many people would want to play as healer/tank? Most of my groups are filled with hybrids in dps slots, and I'm one of them. Should 40 minute queue times be acceptable?

    I don't personally like to pug as healer or tank becaue of the time investment in the zone. You can zone out and dps well, but tanking and healing take more concentration - especially tanking because you're the instigator for everything in pugs. I don't want wotlkfaceroll, but over an hour for a 5 man is too much. Finding tanks won't be a problem when pugs can average under 40 minutes in the biggest zones.
    Partly there's the fact that it's easier to be DPS. Let the tank worry about metaconcerns like who has what CC and when it applies, let the tank sort out of the positioning etcetc. Then there's the size scalability (which is really fucking badly thought out) whereby there's 1 tank, 3 DPS and 1 healer for 5 mans - call it 1:3:1 - where as ten mans tends to 2:6:2 or possibly 2:5:3 and 25 mans in turn most often being 2:15:8, or something in that neighbourhood. There's nonzero amounts of people who won't tank five mans, because they'll never raid tank anyway/they'll need DPS gear for raids, so why bother getting a tanking kit?

    Granted, with the changes to the def cap the last objection is weaker than it used to be, but there are also some pretty hefty practice objections; Even if you technically have the gear required to tank (and your spec is acceptable if not good) you still gotta know what you're doing, and for the vast majority of people this involvs practice. Good luck getting that at lvl 85 running heroics you got into on DPS gear.

    tl;dr: If we had enough tanks for 5 mans, we'd have too many for raiding, so we're never gonna have enough tanks.
    Personally, I think they should implement tri spec, but demand that a maximum of 2 major in the same tree.

    Calixtus on
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    Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I understands the aoe healing zones and how they are supposed to work, but it would be seriously alot easier if you could cast them like they are now, but instead of creating a graphical effect, it just put a a HoT on everyone in the spells circumference.

    That way no one freaks out about stuff on the ground, people get healing over time when they are in the place they are supposed to be (i.e. group up on the tank or on me during this phase) and it would be a pretty easy mechanic to implement. I am not sure why the designers didn't do it this way, presumably because they want to keep people in one area?

    Smaug6 on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Calixtus wrote: »
    Personally, I think they should implement tri spec, but demand that a maximum of 2 major in the same tree.

    While that'd give me the option of having a pvp version of an existing spec (and that'd really just be "oh hey, you get to pick up the stam talents), I'm ...I'm not really sure what the goal of that would be.

    End on
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    CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Calixtus wrote: »
    sim wrote: »
    Did bliz overestimate how many people would want to play as healer/tank? Most of my groups are filled with hybrids in dps slots, and I'm one of them. Should 40 minute queue times be acceptable?

    I don't personally like to pug as healer or tank becaue of the time investment in the zone. You can zone out and dps well, but tanking and healing take more concentration - especially tanking because you're the instigator for everything in pugs. I don't want wotlkfaceroll, but over an hour for a 5 man is too much. Finding tanks won't be a problem when pugs can average under 40 minutes in the biggest zones.
    Partly there's the fact that it's easier to be DPS. Let the tank worry about metaconcerns like who has what CC and when it applies, let the tank sort out of the positioning etcetc. Then there's the size scalability (which is really fucking badly thought out) whereby there's 1 tank, 3 DPS and 1 healer for 5 mans - call it 1:3:1 - where as ten mans tends to 2:6:2 or possibly 2:5:3 and 25 mans in turn most often being 2:15:8, or something in that neighbourhood. There's nonzero amounts of people who won't tank five mans, because they'll never raid tank anyway/they'll need DPS gear for raids, so why bother getting a tanking kit?

    Granted, with the changes to the def cap the last objection is weaker than it used to be, but there are also some pretty hefty practice objections; Even if you technically have the gear required to tank (and your spec is acceptable if not good) you still gotta know what you're doing, and for the vast majority of people this involvs practice. Good luck getting that at lvl 85 running heroics you got into on DPS gear.

    tl;dr: If we had enough tanks for 5 mans, we'd have too many for raiding, so we're never gonna have enough tanks. Personally, I think they should implement tri spec, but demand that a maximum of 2 major in the same tree.

    thats why they should be made into 6 mans like someone suggested earlier

    CasedOut on
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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    The best runs ive been in have had DPS that did thier own damn marking and CC leaving me to what I should be doing as a tank. Agro mobs, interrupt, position etc. Its the way it should be.

    Jubal77 on
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    simsim Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Calixtus wrote: »
    Personally, I think they should implement tri spec, but demand that a maximum of 2 major in the same tree.

    I would love tri-spec. Everyone's third spec would be pvp, though. This would remove a gold sink that bliz seems to like keeping (~100g per talent+glyph set change...and I change my druid's talents daily :oops:).

    sim on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Nothing sadder then a character refusing to give up old purples. Hell seeing the greens for plate I'm tempted when I play my war to just buy ah greens and get rid of all my old epic gear. I mean in bc you could wait till Nagrand before you got out of tier 2, but cata really does have green as the new purple.

    Preacher on
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    RendRend Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    sim wrote: »
    Calixtus wrote: »
    Personally, I think they should implement tri spec, but demand that a maximum of 2 major in the same tree.

    I would love tri-spec. Everyone's third spec would be pvp, though. This would remove a gold sink that bliz seems to like keeping (~100g per talent+glyph set change...and I change my druid's talents daily :oops:).

    You gotta drain money from the economy somehow.

    Rend on
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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Preacher wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    sim wrote: »
    Did bliz overestimate how many people would want to play as healer/tank? Most of my groups are filled with hybrids in dps slots, and I'm one of them. Should 40 minute queue times be acceptable?

    I don't personally like to pug as healer or tank becaue of the time investment in the zone. You can zone out and dps well, but tanking and healing take more concentration - especially tanking because you're the instigator for everything in pugs. I don't want wotlkfaceroll, but over an hour for a 5 man is too much. Finding tanks won't be a problem when pugs can average under 40 minutes in the biggest zones.

    Apparently they did. Queues for DPS used to be 15 minutes and people whined about how heroics were too easy. Blizzard responded by making them harder and now it's 40 minute queues.

    It's not like the writing wasn't on the wall. The first hint they should have gotten was when tanks were dropping when they got the loading screen for HHoR.

    Its new in the expansion, and I can tell you from when I played a tank at the start of Wrath it was a lot fucking longer for dps then 40 minutes. I got tells the second I logged in to run whatever the daily was to whatever someone wanted for a drop. This is the first expansion launch with the LFG system and we're less then a month in.

    Its also perception, I was worried as all get out to do my first heroic, did it, and was like "Man this wasn't as hard as I feared." Sure shit hits hard, but its not impossibly hard and eventually people will have more rep, crafted, drop gear to put on. I've already started to see that.

    We also didn't have the LFD tool at the beginning of Wrath. You either had to rely on being in a guild, knowing tanks or on trade channel pug recruitment. I'm not sure you can really draw a comparison there.

    Nobody on
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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Man pretty much every heroic some stupid shit happens and I end up having to kite the trash/boss/whatever until people get back inside and we kill it.

    It's fun, but both annoying when I have to do it everytime, and it's harder to kite as fire than it is as frost since I don't have my improved blink...

    Oghulk on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    The best runs ive been in have had DPS that did thier own damn marking and CC leaving me to what I should be doing as a tank. Agro mobs, interrupt, position etc. Its the way it should be.

    I don't mind doing my own sap target as long as the tank abides by it, I always try and pick the far target or the most dangerous, without fail thats the herp derp target of choice.

    Preacher on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Over an hour for a five man is too much? There isn't much of a happy medium between under 60 minute heroics and the wotlk faceroll.

    I think the raid composition numbers are mostly a problem with encounter design; in BC, before encounters were being designed for 10 and 25 people, you regularly needed four or five tanks for 25 mans. It's pretty tough to take a two tank fight (10 man) and turn it into a five tank fight for 25s without radically changing the mechanics involved, though.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Nobody wrote: »
    We also didn't have the LFD tool at the beginning of Wrath. You either had to rely on being in a guild, knowing tanks or on trade channel pug recruitment. I'm not sure you can really draw a comparison there.

    Which was the point I was making, people are comparing end expansion wrath ques to beginning expansion cata ques and they aren't even the same ballpark. I bet you if we had LFG at the start of wrath the ques would have been as long if not longer. People forget that back in the day Aj, halls of lighting, halls of stone and OK were often never run because people hated fucking doing them and Naxx was easier to run for upgrades.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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