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i dunno what they're bitching about. some racing wheel? whatever. [game podcasts]

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Posts

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Nah

    RDR's story is pretty great

    Though I do think there's truth to that bit from Adaptation: "Wow 'em in the end, and you've got a hit."

    RDR really wowed in the end

    ME2 was the opposite of wowing in the end. It was whimpering in the end

    Alan Wake's gameplay was too bad for me to continue playing, which is a shame, 'cause I liked where the story was going

    The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.

    Javen on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    And in terms of ME2, I felt like the final boss itself actually cast a shadow over all the concentrated awesomeness that had took place in the rest of the final act of the game, which is really Bioware's own fault, since they seemed to specifically try to make the spectacle of the robot human reaper thing have as much of an awe factor as possible. Compare it to ME1, where the actual final battle with Saren wasn't the center of the scene, but the space battle with the Sovereign.

    Javen on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    These GotY podcasts are making me wish that RDR would get a PC port again.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    But it's Rockstar

    Aren't their PC ports usually less than stellar?

    UnbreakableVow on
  • JC of DIJC of DI I think we're fucked up. I know I am.Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    T4CT wrote: »
    Brad needs to just learn he's not very good at games that aren't Starcraft

    because

    I saved everyone on my first runthrough of ME2 and that was 48 hours after it came out which means there were no guides for survival, the game just makes it pretty clear that you need everything you can get to survive that mission

    You're right, it is very clear that you need everything you can get. So when you do a story mission and then you know that the next mission is where shit gets crazy, you know that you should go and clear up everything else to be in tip-top shape for what lies beyond, right? After all, they even tell you explicitly to go do anything you haven't done yet because you aren't coming back.

    But then therein lies the problem because
    the time you spend doing those extra side missions is a factor that they don't worry about. It certainly doesn't help that Brad apparently can't except multiple endings as a thing - that there is just a best ending or failure.

    Really I think that's a bit more of a problem with storytelling in games conditioning us that time is just a nebulous thing between Main Story Point X and Main Story Point Y, instead of any fault on Mass Effect 2's part.

    JC of DI on
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  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Javen wrote: »
    Nah

    RDR's story is pretty great

    Though I do think there's truth to that bit from Adaptation: "Wow 'em in the end, and you've got a hit."

    RDR really wowed in the end

    ME2 was the opposite of wowing in the end. It was whimpering in the end

    Alan Wake's gameplay was too bad for me to continue playing, which is a shame, 'cause I liked where the story was going

    The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.

    I agree.

    And, coincidentally, Mass Effect 2 does the same thing. Collector threat? Eh, whatever. Helping out Mordin Solus? Hell yes!

    Stilts on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I respectfully disagree

    I enjoyed every aspect of RDR's story, but only really dug the loyalty missions in ME2

    And the podcast spoiled the Shadow Broker for me as promised but I don't think it was that big of a deal. If anything it makes me really want to jump into it soon and read those dossiers.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    David_T wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    T4CT wrote: »
    and I think Vinny brought it up, but

    the reaper being a human is canonically explained

    the reapers repurpose themselves as the race they feel has hit the peak in that 50,000 year cycle or whatever it is

    it was a little bit silly but nowhere near what Brad was arguing

    I think it's more that any Reaper that they create is made from a certain species, so they make it look like the species that was harvested to create it

    But yes it was totally adequate to explain it's appearance

    But the argument against wasn't that it was unexplained, it was that the only way for the story to go was to a bad boss.

    If the end boss had been a giant robot that looked like a robot, like Jeff suggested, then that would have been totally unexplained and not in line with the story. Which was kinda weird, because that also suggest that Jeff didn't really get the story but was still arguing for it.

    No, Jeff was saying that if it were a giant robot that looked like a robot, Brad wouldn't be whining about it

    It's a stupid thing to whine about the appearance of a final boss as though it were important to the story in any truly meaningful way
    Javen wrote: »
    Nah

    RDR's story is pretty great

    Though I do think there's truth to that bit from Adaptation: "Wow 'em in the end, and you've got a hit."

    RDR really wowed in the end

    ME2 was the opposite of wowing in the end. It was whimpering in the end

    Alan Wake's gameplay was too bad for me to continue playing, which is a shame, 'cause I liked where the story was going

    The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.

    I really don't know how anyone can think the things that you are saying

    Because they are completely backwards

    The individual mission storylines were well-presented and well-acted but were a means to an end

    The main plot, in particular the last few missions and the little epilogue, were absolutely fucking excellent and had some serious thematic shit going on

    The idea that Rockstar made a giant video game with millions of dollars for a budget, and then made it a tragedy, is the ballsiest thing a video game has done this year

    Even more so than Mass Effect 2 creating a video game out of a series of character studies

    Olivaw on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I love the epilogue missions so much

    UnbreakableVow on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The problem of RDR for me is that it's a Rockstar style open world game.

    Which means I spent 12 hours fucking around the first area and then completely got bored of it. :lol:

    Antihippy on
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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I love the epilogue missions so much

    Fuckin' the very last cutscene in the game?

    Fuck

    How did they make that so fucking good

    How did they do it

    Olivaw on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    That too, obviously

    But the setup was pretty brilliant

    Just herding cattle with my son

    I ordered RDR again just for the shit of it (and also 'cause I wanna try Undead Nightmare), and I am going to be playing this at some point during the epilogue missions

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VILWkqlQLWk

    UnbreakableVow on
  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I love the epilogue missions so much

    Fuckin' the very last cutscene in the game?

    Fuck

    How did they make that so fucking good

    How did they do it

    The epilogue is indeed fantastic. In fact, as much as I adore ME2, I'll admit that RDR deserves to win best story of 2010.

    But the issue for me is that John Marsten's revenge plot didn't get interesting to me until around the time the government agents got directly involved.

    Stilts on
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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    That too, obviously

    But the setup was pretty brilliant

    Just herding cattle with my son

    I ordered RDR again just for the shit of it (and also 'cause I wanna try Undead Nightmare), and I am going to be playing this at some point during the epilogue missions

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VILWkqlQLWk

    Those are all well and good but the last mission? The one right before the credits?

    That shit

    hoooooo man

    that's the best shit

    Olivaw on
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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Stilts wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I love the epilogue missions so much

    Fuckin' the very last cutscene in the game?

    Fuck

    How did they make that so fucking good

    How did they do it

    The epilogue is indeed fantastic. In fact, as much as I adore ME2, I'll admit that RDR deserves to win best story of 2010.

    But the issue for me is that John Marsten's revenge plot didn't get interesting to me until around the time the government agents got directly involved.

    Well that's the whole point, isn't it

    That's when the game goes full-on revisionist western, after all

    I liked all the little hints at the backstory that they laid out during the horseback rides where John alluded to a lot of shit that made me very interested in him and his associates as characters

    And the beautiful part of it? A lot of it is never laid out for the player! they don't shoehorn in Marston monologuing about some particularly terrible thing to another character about the exact moment when shit went bad, or the exact moment when something bad happened. You're just meant to infer a lot

    That is fantastic

    Olivaw on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    It's what Half-Life has tried to do all along

    It's not too subtle, and I agree, it's pretty amazing

    UnbreakableVow on
  • tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    You guys are terrible

    Officially adding your names to the list, underneath Shoemaker

    tofu on
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Is it the Sexy Voices list

    UnbreakableVow on
  • JC of DIJC of DI I think we're fucked up. I know I am.Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    tofu wrote: »
    You guys are terrible

    Officially adding your names to the list, underneath Shoemaker

    Is this where we add your name to another list, underneath Gerstmann, for just talking about how wrong we are without explaining why you think so?

    JC of DI on
    PJWczLu.png
  • tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The gist of it is, like every other Rockstar game, RDR is nothing but a meaningless pastiche of genre tropes

    I've already been over this in the RDR thread, so I know debating it isn't going to change anyone's mind

    tofu on
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I'm with tofu.

    kedinik on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I really don't understand how a story within a genre makes it meaningless

    But it's blowing my mind how you can think that

    Olivaw on
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  • Frosty the Snow PlowFrosty the Snow Plow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I'm not of the opinion that RDR has an excellent story either, but "a meaningless pastiche of genre tropes" is a rather meaningless statement itself.

    edit: Not to mention redundant.

    Frosty the Snow Plow on
  • tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I'm not of the opinion that RDR has an excellent story either, but "a meaningless pastiche of genre tropes" is a rather meaningless statement itself.

    edit: Not to mention redundant.

    What part?

    tofu on
  • Frosty the Snow PlowFrosty the Snow Plow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    A pastiche is a work consisting chiefly of genre tropes and borrowed motifs with no real original voice or value.

    I'm just being a dick, to be honest.

    Frosty the Snow Plow on
  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    i like ME2's story better

    but that's just me

    T4CT on
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  • Frosty the Snow PlowFrosty the Snow Plow Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Yeah, that's where I'm at. RDR does more than a few things with it's story that are confident and subtle that are definitely worth recognizing and encouraging, but ME2, goddamn.

    Frosty the Snow Plow on
  • KuratosuKuratosu Registered User
    edited December 2010
    I loved RDR, and it's in my top 5 for the year. But if Mexico had been significantly trimmed down or even cut out, the game would have been a much better experience overall.

    Kuratosu on
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  • BehemothBehemoth Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Kuratosu wrote: »
    I loved RDR, and it's in my top 5 for the year. But if Mexico had been significantly trimmed down or even cut out, the game would have been a much better experience overall.

    Yeah, every time I replay it I get stuck in Mexico. The plot loses some momentum, it's hard to get around, and there are a lot of annoying missions.

    I will say that ME2 is set in a much more interesting universe, but RDR has a better story, if only because it's not the middle part of a trilogy. ME2's story is somewhat lacking by design.

    Also, the ending of RDR is amazing.

    Behemoth on
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  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I don't care for generic, meandering plots that have spectacular finishes.

    Wouldn't call it a bad game but I'm surprised that anyone's praising the story.

    kedinik on
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Miranda died for me because I sided with Jack so she wouldn't be pissed at me

    I didn't know how I was supposed to get her loyalty to go back up

    Talk to her and smooth things over.
    Lie to her....

    Shadowfire on
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  • EggPuppetEggPuppet Registered User
    edited December 2010
    A pastiche is a work consisting chiefly of genre tropes and borrowed motifs with no real original voice or value.

    I'm just being a dick, to be honest.

    "Pastiche" alone does not necessarily carry a negative connotation

    EggPuppet on
  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Much like any other Rockstar game, there are some really interesting thematic and contextual ideas running in the background, but the narrative thread meanders all over the place, with constant insane, often irrelevant diversions, and as a whole it takes forever to get to its actual point.

    I thought there was a masterful story within RDR, but the pacing and structure was absolutely shoddy. In contrast, that's something ME 2 does immaculately.

    Cherrn on
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  • MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    EggPuppet wrote: »
    A pastiche is a work consisting chiefly of genre tropes and borrowed motifs with no real original voice or value.

    I'm just being a dick, to be honest.

    "Pastiche" alone does not necessarily carry a negative connotation
    Neither should "genre tropes."

    Now I don't know which side of this Red Dead's story argument is comprised of idiots, seeing as I didn't play that game. Mostly because
    Antihippy wrote: »
    The problem of RDR for me is that it's a Rockstar style open world game.

    Monger on
  • ThetherooThetheroo Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    97.5: The Brodeo- RIP

    Thetheroo on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    David_T wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    T4CT wrote: »
    and I think Vinny brought it up, but

    the reaper being a human is canonically explained

    the reapers repurpose themselves as the race they feel has hit the peak in that 50,000 year cycle or whatever it is

    it was a little bit silly but nowhere near what Brad was arguing

    I think it's more that any Reaper that they create is made from a certain species, so they make it look like the species that was harvested to create it

    But yes it was totally adequate to explain it's appearance

    But the argument against wasn't that it was unexplained, it was that the only way for the story to go was to a bad boss.

    If the end boss had been a giant robot that looked like a robot, like Jeff suggested, then that would have been totally unexplained and not in line with the story. Which was kinda weird, because that also suggest that Jeff didn't really get the story but was still arguing for it.

    No, Jeff was saying that if it were a giant robot that looked like a robot, Brad wouldn't be whining about it

    It's a stupid thing to whine about the appearance of a final boss as though it were important to the story in any truly meaningful way
    Javen wrote: »
    Nah

    RDR's story is pretty great

    Though I do think there's truth to that bit from Adaptation: "Wow 'em in the end, and you've got a hit."

    RDR really wowed in the end

    ME2 was the opposite of wowing in the end. It was whimpering in the end

    Alan Wake's gameplay was too bad for me to continue playing, which is a shame, 'cause I liked where the story was going

    The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.

    I really don't know how anyone can think the things that you are saying

    Because they are completely backwards

    The individual mission storylines were well-presented and well-acted but were a means to an end

    The main plot, in particular the last few missions and the little epilogue, were absolutely fucking excellent and had some serious thematic shit going on

    The idea that Rockstar made a giant video game with millions of dollars for a budget, and then made it a tragedy, is the ballsiest thing a video game has done this year

    Even more so than Mass Effect 2 creating a video game out of a series of character studies

    Man if you were going into a western and not expecting a tragedy then you just haven't seen enough westerns.

    The only western that comes to mind as having a totally happy ending is Back to the Future 3.

    Javen on
  • MusanMusan Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    For those complaining about GoW3 not being in best-looking game, here is Jeff's response:

    http://vyou.com/jeffg

    Musan on
  • reVersereVerse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    That video is creepy and unsettling.

    reVerse on
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    And also about Gears of War 3, not God of War.

    Mr. G on
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  • tallgeezetallgeeze Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Hey, a gaming podcast thread, or should I say, "Hey, A bombcast thread!"? I guess since they are the only ones who have some updates this week they get the focus.

    I've listened to all of the GoTY discussions and I'm listening to day 4 now. The only thing I've realized is that I haven't played anything besides Mass Effect 2 and Bad Company 2 this year. I should really quit WoW and broaden my gaming horizons.

    I do find the discussions funny, but a little tiresome after a while. That first day was a fucking endurance match of wills.

    tallgeeze on
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