Well, that, and the Geth were space-Vikings for years. The Quarians are disliked because they root through garbage, particularly garbage that's not theirs.
Like Tal mentioned, the geth hadn't been heard about past the Perseus Veil until Eden Prime. Even if they had, though, my point was the only reason anyone hates the geth is because they hate this tiny fragment that they assume represents all of them (and which no longer exists) and they don't know about the cool, hippie geth, whereas people hate the quarians because their entire species is rooting around people's garbage.
You mean beyond the fact that none of them left the veil 'till Sovs, or the fact they recorded that quarian song and were obviously worshipping the Reapers.
Well, that, and the Geth were space-Vikings for years. The Quarians are disliked because they root through garbage, particularly garbage that's not theirs.
Like Tal mentioned, the geth hadn't been heard about past the Perseus Veil until Eden Prime. Even if they had, though, my point was the only reason anyone hates the geth is because they hate this tiny fragment that they assume represents all of them (and which no longer exists) and they don't know about the cool, hippie geth, whereas people hate the quarians because their entire species is rooting around people's garbage.
well, those cool, hippie geth are the reason the quarian species was reduced to rooting around people's garbage. that and general council stupidity.
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Well, that, and the Geth were space-Vikings for years. The Quarians are disliked because they root through garbage, particularly garbage that's not theirs.
Like Tal mentioned, the geth hadn't been heard about past the Perseus Veil until Eden Prime. Even if they had, though, my point was the only reason anyone hates the geth is because they hate this tiny fragment that they assume represents all of them (and which no longer exists) and they don't know about the cool, hippie geth, whereas people hate the quarians because their entire species is rooting around people's garbage.
well, those cool, hippie geth are the reason the quarian species was reduced to rooting around people's garbage. that and general council stupidity.
This has been discussed to death in the SE++ ME2 thread but quite frankly the Qurians have no one to blame but themselves for losing their homeworld.
The Qurians first response to their slave labour force becoming sentient was attempted genocide.
well, those cool, hippie geth are the reason the quarian species was reduced to rooting around people's garbage. that and general council stupidity.
Quarians were really the reason for that. Genocide isn't good and the Geth aren't good for that reason alone...but that war was genocide VS genocide, you can't blame the Geth for winning.
And Quarians did not exactly consult the Council before attempting to genocide their slave force.
Well, that, and the Geth were space-Vikings for years. The Quarians are disliked because they root through garbage, particularly garbage that's not theirs.
Like Tal mentioned, the geth hadn't been heard about past the Perseus Veil until Eden Prime. Even if they had, though, my point was the only reason anyone hates the geth is because they hate this tiny fragment that they assume represents all of them (and which no longer exists) and they don't know about the cool, hippie geth, whereas people hate the quarians because their entire species is rooting around people's garbage.
well, those cool, hippie geth are the reason the quarian species was reduced to rooting around people's garbage. that and general council stupidity.
This has been discussed to death in the SE++ ME2 thread but quite frankly the Qurians have no one to blame but themselves for losing their homeworld.
The Qurians first response to their slave labour force becoming sentient was attempted genocide.
that argument's just treating geth like organics. you can turn a geth on and off with no harm done; the same can't be said about organic life. see: cerberus' horrendously expensive efforts to resurrect shepard
couple that fact with the massively disproportionate response that the geth displayed in nearly eliminating the quarian race, and the geth start to look like immense bastards
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
that argument's just treating geth like organics. you can turn a geth on and off with no harm done; the same can't be said about organic life. see: cerberus' horrendously expensive efforts to resurrect shepard
couple that fact with the massively disproportionate response that the geth displayed in nearly eliminating the quarian race, and the geth start to look like immense bastards
Quarians weren't planning on turning the geth off and then turn them on later. They treated them like a malevolent AI program, so they wanted to erase them and return them to what they were before. They were planning to eradicate an entire new budding sentient species like nothing.
And again, answering genocide with genocide isn't a disproportionate response, it's just an equally bad one.
the geth ARE nothing without being networked. it's not some threshold of intelligence, some critical mass that suddenly puts them in a higher tax bracket named "sentience". they don't depend on some quantum computer like a real AI. they don't "die" like an AI will if copied.
geth sentience does not have the same value as organic sentience. neither does geth life. don't believe me? ask the geth!
EDIT: who's making the new thread?
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Well, that, and the Geth were space-Vikings for years. The Quarians are disliked because they root through garbage, particularly garbage that's not theirs.
Like Tal mentioned, the geth hadn't been heard about past the Perseus Veil until Eden Prime. Even if they had, though, my point was the only reason anyone hates the geth is because they hate this tiny fragment that they assume represents all of them (and which no longer exists) and they don't know about the cool, hippie geth, whereas people hate the quarians because their entire species is rooting around people's garbage.
well, those cool, hippie geth are the reason the quarian species was reduced to rooting around people's garbage. that and general council stupidity.
The fact that the whole galaxy hates the Geth (well, perhaps sans Shepard, assuming you weren't cruel enough to sell Legion to Cerberus), pretty much demonstrates that no one gives a shit about the hippie-Geth. They need to get off their hippie butts and address the fact that the 5% of their species that the Galaxy cares about were psychotic religious fanatics who went around murdering people for the worse possible reasons--seduced by Citadel's Most Wanted, Saren, or by the Reapers.
Seriously, it's a problem. And ME2 repeatedly demonstrates it--unfortunately for Legion. This may qualify as ironic--a Geth who is one of the non-murderous fanatic majority is treated as if he were part of the fanatic minority even as he is considering their destruction. I honestly think the Geth are banking on the whole "fuck organics, disappear into the void" option, if it weren't for the Reaper threat.
Saying that once the geth reach sentience it's not murder if you separate them up first is like saying it's not murder if you lobotomize someone before incinerating the lobes. The quarians saw their own designs had sentience too late and were like, "fuuuuuuuuck" and stupidly tried to destroy them instead of approaching them peacefully and starting to replace them with non-sentient slavebots.
The fact that the whole galaxy hates the Geth (well, perhaps sans Shepard, assuming you weren't cruel enough to sell Legion to Cerberus), pretty much demonstrates that no one gives a ship about the hippie-Geth.
Because no one knows they exist! I'm not saying people's assumptions are wrong for what they know, since they know nothing of them, but they're still wrong, albeit unwittingly.
The fact that the whole galaxy hates the Geth (well, perhaps sans Shepard, assuming you weren't cruel enough to sell Legion to Cerberus), pretty much demonstrates that no one gives a ship about the hippie-Geth.
Because no one knows they exist! I'm not saying people's assumptions are wrong for what they know, since they know nothing of them, but they're still wrong, albeit unwittingly.
I never said they weren't wrong (though they're right about that fanatic murderous minority). And if the majority decides to clam up and hide from the rest of the universe, the minority might as well be the majority. People don't give a shit about the Geth, you think they're going to care about the nuances of their internal debate or philosophy?
Not really. And the heretic Geth are still, fundamentally, Geth--Legion acknowledged this. Putting aside that they're less numerous (because all their neighbors, including the other Geth, decided to kill almost all of them), they're not "irrelevant" to the state of Geth affairs. Even if the Geth wanted to--which they seriously don't seem to, as far as I can tell--they can't just go "Hey guys! We know we kind of got off on the wrong foot, but we're actually really cool dudes! Nachos and beer at our planet!" and expect it to work like that.
Saying that once the geth reach sentience it's not murder if you separate them up first is like saying it's not murder if you lobotomize someone before incinerating the lobes. The quarians saw their own designs had sentience too late and were like, "fuuuuuuuuck" and stupidly tried to destroy them instead of approaching them peacefully and starting to replace them with non-sentient slavebots.
The fact that the whole galaxy hates the Geth (well, perhaps sans Shepard, assuming you weren't cruel enough to sell Legion to Cerberus), pretty much demonstrates that no one gives a ship about the hippie-Geth.
Because no one knows they exist! I'm not saying people's assumptions are wrong for what they know, since they know nothing of them, but they're still wrong, albeit unwittingly.
Look, the rest of the galaxy don't believe in th Reapers either. You can't blame them for making assumptions, even if the assumptions are wrong.
Its just another thing that i'll get to rub in everyones faces when Reapers turn up and have to deal with Shepard and his team of superfriends (which at this point has got to be the a united Krogan army, the Rachni, the Geth and if they can get their fucking act together the Qurians).
Saying that once the geth reach sentience it's not murder if you separate them up first is like saying it's not murder if you lobotomize someone before incinerating the lobes.
again, geth sentience ≠ organic sentience. geth separate themselves all the goddamn time. the average geth mobile unit has the intelligence of a cow. legion is an exception, not the rule.
but anyway, we've all had this debate before, so i'll leave it alone for now.
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Saying that once the geth reach sentience it's not murder if you separate them up first is like saying it's not murder if you lobotomize someone before incinerating the lobes. The quarians saw their own designs had sentience too late and were like, "fuuuuuuuuck" and stupidly tried to destroy them instead of approaching them peacefully and starting to replace them with non-sentient slavebots.
The fact that the whole galaxy hates the Geth (well, perhaps sans Shepard, assuming you weren't cruel enough to sell Legion to Cerberus), pretty much demonstrates that no one gives a ship about the hippie-Geth.
Because no one knows they exist! I'm not saying people's assumptions are wrong for what they know, since they know nothing of them, but they're still wrong, albeit unwittingly.
Look, the rest of the galaxy don't believe in th Reapers either. You can't blame them for making assumptions, even if the assumptions are wrong.
Its just another thing that i'll get to rub in everyones faces when Reapers turn up and have to deal with Shepard and his team of superfriends (which at this point has got to be the a united Krogan army, the Rachni, the Geth and if they can get their fucking act together the Qurians).
I seriously doubt you're going to get your precious Geth Army, regardless of Shepard's decision in ME2 (I would like to see the statistics on that--given that reprogramming is the Paragon option, I think, I assume it would be more common). It's possible, but it's equally possible that the non-fanatic Geth will continue to do their best clam impression. One thing that made the heretics heretics was their willingness to involve themselves in the affairs (and deaths) of organics. The rest of the Geth are quite orthodox and very shy...there's a decent chance that's not going to change (though if it did, it could happen in an abrupt few hours, courtesy of Legion's debates).
On the bright side, personally, I'll take Legion himself (or themselves) over a Geth Army. He's actually interesting, unlike a bunch of faceless automatons that look like the bunch of faceless automatons I spent a few weeks massacring. He's capable of rudimentary facial expressions. Suck on that, wannabe machines.
Not sure about the Rachni either. I think a Krogan Army will exist, albeit a small one that is united in part because of its smallness (won't stop its effectiveness, though). Not optimistic about the Quarians either.
I honestly don't know what you're arguing about. I don't see the point in saying the universe doesn't care about X when the only reason for that is that they're wholly ignorant of X. I'm not suggesting instead the reintroduction of the geth to society or whatever - this thing about opinions on geth is just a tangent. The seed was that I said there aren't any murderous geth post-ME2 and it's not "still happening," and that only the quarians are still keeping on with that hatred thing, so the hatred of geth (from player viewpoint) is not more rational than Ashley distrusting aliens for recent history like the original quote said, especially since the geth were absent for three centuries and weren't raiding or anything.
again, geth sentience ≠ organic sentience. geth separate themselves all the goddamn time. the average geth mobile unit has the intelligence of a cow. legion is an exception, not the rule.
Which still changes exactly nothing about wiping out the entirety of their sentience as an entity. Genocide = genocide.
Well the asari on Illium straight up tells you that because you saved the queen (i'm assuming you didn't give her an acid bath in ME1) that the Rachni will be there to help you.
I'd be surprised if the geth don't help. They rejected the reaper's offer for aid and the reaper's pose a threat to their continued existence/creation of their dyson sphere.
I honestly don't know what you're arguing about. I don't see the point in saying the universe doesn't care about X when the only reason for that is that they're wholly ignorant of X. I'm not suggesting instead the reintroduction of the geth to society or whatever - this thing about opinions on geth is just a tangent. The seed was that I said there aren't any murderous geth post-ME2 and it's not "still happening," and that only the quarians are still keeping on with that hatred thing, so the hatred of geth (from player viewpoint) is not more rational than Ashley distrusting aliens for recent history like the original quote said, especially since the geth were absent for three centuries and weren't raiding or anything.
Well, that's where you're wrong. It's not just the Quarians. It's all the survivors of Geth attacks. It's the Council itself, and its constituents. It's the body of organic beings in the galaxy who actually have an opinion on the Geth (outside of humans, and perhaps including them, a large majority may not feel one way or another). People are not exactly lining up to defend the Geth that aren't murderous fanatics.
It's not about rationality, it's about how people behave and continue to behave. The Geth during their absence were effectively non-existent. People are a lot more interested in their non-absence, when they went around killing people and sticking them on spikes, and you can guess why. I'm sure there are people pointing out the disparity between decades of seclusion and suddenly going on a murderous rampage, but they're going to be drowned out by survivors telling stories of the Geth sticking people on spikes. In a decade, it might be a different story--or it might not.
Legion pleading his case to the Council demonstrates two parts of this--first, that the Council's leaders weren't hoping for the Geth to actually be nice guys, and were quite happy killing them wherever they showed up (turn about is fair play), and that Legion, perhaps the best-perpared Geth in the universe to plead his species' case, still couldn't be sufficiently convincing.
How people view of think of the Geth isn't a tangent, it's the whole basis of this--especially since the Geth have no easy way to offer a differing opinion.
Well the asari on Illium straight up tells you that because you saved the queen (i'm assuming you didn't give her an acid bath in ME1) that the Rachni will be there to help you.
I'd be surprised if the geth don't help. They rejected the reaper's offer for aid and the reaper's pose a threat to their continued existence/creation of their dyson sphere.
The Rachni I think--and this is just my own theory--are going to offer some sort of infrastructure support, since they seem to be remarkable builders and artisans. Perhaps creating something comparable to a Reaper. I don't think it's going to an actual land army like the kind everyone is gushing about, because the Rachni Queen seemed quite intent on escaping the fate of her kind being doomed to serve as warrior slaves. But again, just a theory.
Plus, Bioware could just totally forget or ignore the whole issue.
Synthesis on
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
I'm worried guys, my collection of "cute" ME pictures is starting to overtake my weird an disturbing ones
I saw a bit of fanart of Jack getting a piggy-back ride from Zaheed, with Zaheed beginning one of his gruesome stories, and Jack relishing it.
And everyone else staring at them. It was brilliant.
You know what was mildly disappointing?
Whenever Grunt began a gruesome story, you didn't get enough options for "You think that's great?" and launching into your own enemies list or laughing and promising to passing it on.
But it was nice how often Shepard could toss her own stories into the pool. Talking to the gun store guy about how she was going to hunt slavers, pirates, and geth, telling the Shaman you were going godhunting, even talking about how stupid most people on the ship were regarding tech with the Saronis applications guy while Garrus nodded.
I liked that guy a lot, thinking about it. Nice to have someone recognize and properly appreciate Shepard.
Well, that's where you're wrong. It's not just the Quarians. It's all the survivors of Geth attacks.
...
How people view of think of the Geth isn't a tangent, it's the whole basis of this--especially since the Geth have no easy way to offer a differing opinion.
This discussion here about galactic opinions on geth was the tangent. The player knows better, so broad arguments about whether the hatred of geth is so much more rational than Ashley's xenophobia don't need to account for the views of the non-Shepard masses.
The hippie geth are assholes because even after Sovereign revealed himself, they stayed in isolation and made absolutely no effort to warn or prepare the rest of the galaxy
not even a "oh shit guys, about 5% of our population went nuts and are going to attack you soon, watch out"
-Tal on
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jefe414"My Other Drill Hole is a Teleporter"Mechagodzilla is Best GodzillaRegistered Userregular
yeah, but if you turn them off with the intention to then disassemble them, that's not the same as just flicking a light off and on.
Quarians tried to murder them, they murdered right back.
NO DISASSEMBLE NUMBER FIVE!
Jut remember the all important advice of Malcolm Reynolds: If someone tries to kill you, try and kill them right back.
I bet the Rachni end up building a fleet of warships in secret for Wrex's Krogan forces. Finally, the bitter foes from the Rachni war will learn to live together in peace. Also the Krogan fleet arrives just in time to save the Turians.
This discussion here about galactic opinions on geth was the tangent. The player knows better, so broad arguments about whether the hatred of geth is so much more rational than Ashley's xenophobia don't need to account for the views of the non-Shepard masses.
I don't know about you, SoundsPlush, but I'm personally more interested in the 99.9% of the galaxy that isn't Shepard, and I've already acknowledge that she knows better. There's an actual discussion to be had there, besides "Shepard thinks Legion's an okay bloke" or "Shepard sold Legion to Cerberus to pay for an armor upgrade and a weekend at a spa".
Once Shepard becomes the hive-mind for the whole galaxy, then I'll switch my interest. As of ME2, Shepard was still trying to convince people she wasn't a Cerberus puppet, and that Saren wasn't calling the shots.
The hippie geth are assholes because even after Sovereign revealed himself, they stayed in isolation and made absolutely no effort to warn or prepare the rest of the galaxy
not even a "oh shit guys, about 5% of our population went nuts and are going to attack you soon, watch out"
Well, to be fair, the Geth really hate leaving their "head in the sand" state--and given the Morning War, and the option to be self-sufficient, I can't really blame them. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have fully dedicated themselves to stopping the heretics even if 50% of their species sided with Sovereign. Plus, they appear to respect dissenting opinions to a large degree.
Sure, but the original thing you were responding to me about was a completely different subject and was all about the player's viewpoint.
From the galactic viewpoint, geth are murderous assholes, a justified view by what they know, like I said. I don't know what else there is to say about that since the cool geth are happy to just let organic society forget about them and go hide in their tree fort after they give back the quarians their Eden. If Shepard convinces them to help organics out meanwhile, she shouldn't have any trouble berating the leaders of the alien fleets to shut up and deal with it so Shepard can get to killing the reapers.
Sure, but the original thing you were responding to me about was a completely different subject and was all about the player's viewpoint.
From the galactic viewpoint, geth are murderous assholes, a justified view by what they know, like I said. I don't know what else there is to say about that since the cool geth are happy to just let organic society forget about them and go hide in their tree fort after they give back the quarians their Eden. If Shepard convinces them to help organics out meanwhile, she shouldn't have any trouble berating the leaders of the alien fleets to shut up and deal with it so Shepard can get to killing the reapers.
Ah, my fault then. I was more interested in the issue of the Geth being reintegrated into normal life, which was brought up in the past (and others steered the issue to, if it wasn't already about that). Not a lot of room on how Shepard feels.
Synthesis on
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
The problem with the nice Geth?
They are too nice. They don't go after the rogue Geth because, you know, your buddy Steve thinks ACDC rules, and you listen to a mixtape and don't see the appeal, so he leaves in a huff?
You don't go off and murder Steve. You shrug and wish him the best with his love of ACDC and go on with your life.
Which turns out to be a bad idea when Steve forms an ACDC cult and pledges to kill the unbelievers, but there was no reason to see it coming from your prospective.
Which still changes exactly nothing about wiping out the entirety of their sentience as an entity. Genocide = genocide.
it's not a duality if the species in question doesn't have on/off sentience, but instead ranges from cow-like to genius.
the whole concept of the value of organic life is based on the asymmetry of death. in most cases, it's irreversible and represents a gigantic loss.
that doesn't apply to the geth; there is no defined geth "sentience", only a nebulous varying gestalt presence that's a function of the network. that's why legion himself has no qualms "killing" his own people. even he says they're just programs.
that's not to say that the geth back then thought the same. i believe that legion's rather clinical view is the result of a lot of geth navel-gazing. and let's remember the reason quarians got into AI research in the first place: trying to preserve the personalities, presences, and "souls" of their ancestors. i'm sure the initial geth were colored quite strongly by organic concepts such as death and souls.
TL;DR: the geth of the morning war thought like organics and killed like organics; the geth of today think like synthetics and are quite embarrassed at all the slaughter they did
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Plus, they're not dead if they can be uploaded; just that platform happens to have been destroyed.
Posts
I saw a bit of fanart of Jack getting a piggy-back ride from Zaheed, with Zaheed beginning one of his gruesome stories, and Jack relishing it.
And everyone else staring at them. It was brilliant.
Link. I must see possibly the greatest thing ever.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Stalking Jacob.
Like Tal mentioned, the geth hadn't been heard about past the Perseus Veil until Eden Prime. Even if they had, though, my point was the only reason anyone hates the geth is because they hate this tiny fragment that they assume represents all of them (and which no longer exists) and they don't know about the cool, hippie geth, whereas people hate the quarians because their entire species is rooting around people's garbage.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
well, those cool, hippie geth are the reason the quarian species was reduced to rooting around people's garbage. that and general council stupidity.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
This has been discussed to death in the SE++ ME2 thread but quite frankly the Qurians have no one to blame but themselves for losing their homeworld.
The Qurians first response to their slave labour force becoming sentient was attempted genocide.
Quarians were really the reason for that. Genocide isn't good and the Geth aren't good for that reason alone...but that war was genocide VS genocide, you can't blame the Geth for winning.
And Quarians did not exactly consult the Council before attempting to genocide their slave force.
that argument's just treating geth like organics. you can turn a geth on and off with no harm done; the same can't be said about organic life. see: cerberus' horrendously expensive efforts to resurrect shepard
couple that fact with the massively disproportionate response that the geth displayed in nearly eliminating the quarian race, and the geth start to look like immense bastards
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Quarians tried to murder them, they murdered right back.
NO DISASSEMBLE NUMBER FIVE!
PS4:MrZoompants
Quarians weren't planning on turning the geth off and then turn them on later. They treated them like a malevolent AI program, so they wanted to erase them and return them to what they were before. They were planning to eradicate an entire new budding sentient species like nothing.
And again, answering genocide with genocide isn't a disproportionate response, it's just an equally bad one.
geth sentience does not have the same value as organic sentience. neither does geth life. don't believe me? ask the geth!
EDIT: who's making the new thread?
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
The fact that the whole galaxy hates the Geth (well, perhaps sans Shepard, assuming you weren't cruel enough to sell Legion to Cerberus), pretty much demonstrates that no one gives a shit about the hippie-Geth. They need to get off their hippie butts and address the fact that the 5% of their species that the Galaxy cares about were psychotic religious fanatics who went around murdering people for the worse possible reasons--seduced by Citadel's Most Wanted, Saren, or by the Reapers.
Seriously, it's a problem. And ME2 repeatedly demonstrates it--unfortunately for Legion. This may qualify as ironic--a Geth who is one of the non-murderous fanatic majority is treated as if he were part of the fanatic minority even as he is considering their destruction. I honestly think the Geth are banking on the whole "fuck organics, disappear into the void" option, if it weren't for the Reaper threat.
GG, quarians.
Because no one knows they exist! I'm not saying people's assumptions are wrong for what they know, since they know nothing of them, but they're still wrong, albeit unwittingly.
I never said they weren't wrong (though they're right about that fanatic murderous minority). And if the majority decides to clam up and hide from the rest of the universe, the minority might as well be the majority. People don't give a shit about the Geth, you think they're going to care about the nuances of their internal debate or philosophy?
Not really. And the heretic Geth are still, fundamentally, Geth--Legion acknowledged this. Putting aside that they're less numerous (because all their neighbors, including the other Geth, decided to kill almost all of them), they're not "irrelevant" to the state of Geth affairs. Even if the Geth wanted to--which they seriously don't seem to, as far as I can tell--they can't just go "Hey guys! We know we kind of got off on the wrong foot, but we're actually really cool dudes! Nachos and beer at our planet!" and expect it to work like that.
Look, the rest of the galaxy don't believe in th Reapers either. You can't blame them for making assumptions, even if the assumptions are wrong.
Its just another thing that i'll get to rub in everyones faces when Reapers turn up and have to deal with Shepard and his team of superfriends (which at this point has got to be the a united Krogan army, the Rachni, the Geth and if they can get their fucking act together the Qurians).
again, geth sentience ≠ organic sentience. geth separate themselves all the goddamn time. the average geth mobile unit has the intelligence of a cow. legion is an exception, not the rule.
but anyway, we've all had this debate before, so i'll leave it alone for now.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
I seriously doubt you're going to get your precious Geth Army, regardless of Shepard's decision in ME2 (I would like to see the statistics on that--given that reprogramming is the Paragon option, I think, I assume it would be more common). It's possible, but it's equally possible that the non-fanatic Geth will continue to do their best clam impression. One thing that made the heretics heretics was their willingness to involve themselves in the affairs (and deaths) of organics. The rest of the Geth are quite orthodox and very shy...there's a decent chance that's not going to change (though if it did, it could happen in an abrupt few hours, courtesy of Legion's debates).
On the bright side, personally, I'll take Legion himself (or themselves) over a Geth Army. He's actually interesting, unlike a bunch of faceless automatons that look like the bunch of faceless automatons I spent a few weeks massacring. He's capable of rudimentary facial expressions. Suck on that, wannabe machines.
Not sure about the Rachni either. I think a Krogan Army will exist, albeit a small one that is united in part because of its smallness (won't stop its effectiveness, though). Not optimistic about the Quarians either.
We'll just have to wait and see.
I honestly don't know what you're arguing about. I don't see the point in saying the universe doesn't care about X when the only reason for that is that they're wholly ignorant of X. I'm not suggesting instead the reintroduction of the geth to society or whatever - this thing about opinions on geth is just a tangent. The seed was that I said there aren't any murderous geth post-ME2 and it's not "still happening," and that only the quarians are still keeping on with that hatred thing, so the hatred of geth (from player viewpoint) is not more rational than Ashley distrusting aliens for recent history like the original quote said, especially since the geth were absent for three centuries and weren't raiding or anything.
Which still changes exactly nothing about wiping out the entirety of their sentience as an entity. Genocide = genocide.
Why, that almost sounds familiar.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
I'd be surprised if the geth don't help. They rejected the reaper's offer for aid and the reaper's pose a threat to their continued existence/creation of their dyson sphere.
don't you remember when they snuck into quarian homes at night to murder children in their sleep
Ah, this takes me back.
Monstrous.
Whoah, whoah there. We already have our space Jews. We can't be mixing our historical metaphors, this is a videogame!
Well, that's where you're wrong. It's not just the Quarians. It's all the survivors of Geth attacks. It's the Council itself, and its constituents. It's the body of organic beings in the galaxy who actually have an opinion on the Geth (outside of humans, and perhaps including them, a large majority may not feel one way or another). People are not exactly lining up to defend the Geth that aren't murderous fanatics.
It's not about rationality, it's about how people behave and continue to behave. The Geth during their absence were effectively non-existent. People are a lot more interested in their non-absence, when they went around killing people and sticking them on spikes, and you can guess why. I'm sure there are people pointing out the disparity between decades of seclusion and suddenly going on a murderous rampage, but they're going to be drowned out by survivors telling stories of the Geth sticking people on spikes. In a decade, it might be a different story--or it might not.
Legion pleading his case to the Council demonstrates two parts of this--first, that the Council's leaders weren't hoping for the Geth to actually be nice guys, and were quite happy killing them wherever they showed up (turn about is fair play), and that Legion, perhaps the best-perpared Geth in the universe to plead his species' case, still couldn't be sufficiently convincing.
How people view of think of the Geth isn't a tangent, it's the whole basis of this--especially since the Geth have no easy way to offer a differing opinion.
I'm guessing it didn't end with everyone coming together, holding hands, and singing "Kumbaya"?
The Rachni I think--and this is just my own theory--are going to offer some sort of infrastructure support, since they seem to be remarkable builders and artisans. Perhaps creating something comparable to a Reaper. I don't think it's going to an actual land army like the kind everyone is gushing about, because the Rachni Queen seemed quite intent on escaping the fate of her kind being doomed to serve as warrior slaves. But again, just a theory.
Plus, Bioware could just totally forget or ignore the whole issue.
You know what was mildly disappointing?
Whenever Grunt began a gruesome story, you didn't get enough options for "You think that's great?" and launching into your own enemies list or laughing and promising to passing it on.
But it was nice how often Shepard could toss her own stories into the pool. Talking to the gun store guy about how she was going to hunt slavers, pirates, and geth, telling the Shaman you were going godhunting, even talking about how stupid most people on the ship were regarding tech with the Saronis applications guy while Garrus nodded.
I liked that guy a lot, thinking about it. Nice to have someone recognize and properly appreciate Shepard.
Why I fear the ocean.
This discussion here about galactic opinions on geth was the tangent. The player knows better, so broad arguments about whether the hatred of geth is so much more rational than Ashley's xenophobia don't need to account for the views of the non-Shepard masses.
not even a "oh shit guys, about 5% of our population went nuts and are going to attack you soon, watch out"
Jut remember the all important advice of Malcolm Reynolds: If someone tries to kill you, try and kill them right back.
I bet the Rachni end up building a fleet of warships in secret for Wrex's Krogan forces. Finally, the bitter foes from the Rachni war will learn to live together in peace. Also the Krogan fleet arrives just in time to save the Turians.
I don't know about you, SoundsPlush, but I'm personally more interested in the 99.9% of the galaxy that isn't Shepard, and I've already acknowledge that she knows better. There's an actual discussion to be had there, besides "Shepard thinks Legion's an okay bloke" or "Shepard sold Legion to Cerberus to pay for an armor upgrade and a weekend at a spa".
Once Shepard becomes the hive-mind for the whole galaxy, then I'll switch my interest. As of ME2, Shepard was still trying to convince people she wasn't a Cerberus puppet, and that Saren wasn't calling the shots.
Well, to be fair, the Geth really hate leaving their "head in the sand" state--and given the Morning War, and the option to be self-sufficient, I can't really blame them. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have fully dedicated themselves to stopping the heretics even if 50% of their species sided with Sovereign. Plus, they appear to respect dissenting opinions to a large degree.
Ah, top't at 100.
From the galactic viewpoint, geth are murderous assholes, a justified view by what they know, like I said. I don't know what else there is to say about that since the cool geth are happy to just let organic society forget about them and go hide in their tree fort after they give back the quarians their Eden. If Shepard convinces them to help organics out meanwhile, she shouldn't have any trouble berating the leaders of the alien fleets to shut up and deal with it so Shepard can get to killing the reapers.
Ah, my fault then. I was more interested in the issue of the Geth being reintegrated into normal life, which was brought up in the past (and others steered the issue to, if it wasn't already about that). Not a lot of room on how Shepard feels.
They are too nice. They don't go after the rogue Geth because, you know, your buddy Steve thinks ACDC rules, and you listen to a mixtape and don't see the appeal, so he leaves in a huff?
You don't go off and murder Steve. You shrug and wish him the best with his love of ACDC and go on with your life.
Which turns out to be a bad idea when Steve forms an ACDC cult and pledges to kill the unbelievers, but there was no reason to see it coming from your prospective.
Why I fear the ocean.
it's not a duality if the species in question doesn't have on/off sentience, but instead ranges from cow-like to genius.
the whole concept of the value of organic life is based on the asymmetry of death. in most cases, it's irreversible and represents a gigantic loss.
that doesn't apply to the geth; there is no defined geth "sentience", only a nebulous varying gestalt presence that's a function of the network. that's why legion himself has no qualms "killing" his own people. even he says they're just programs.
that's not to say that the geth back then thought the same. i believe that legion's rather clinical view is the result of a lot of geth navel-gazing. and let's remember the reason quarians got into AI research in the first place: trying to preserve the personalities, presences, and "souls" of their ancestors. i'm sure the initial geth were colored quite strongly by organic concepts such as death and souls.
TL;DR: the geth of the morning war thought like organics and killed like organics; the geth of today think like synthetics and are quite embarrassed at all the slaughter they did
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
They'll route around it, no worries.