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Starcraft 2: Burrowing to the Smurf village.

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Posts

  • SaarutoSaaruto Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    GUYS. Am I just late to the party or something? This starts pretty soon and no one has spoken about it... GOMtv has this Gisado Challenge My All Starz thingy. Basically King of the Hill with 5 players from each GSL competing. Season winner picks their team.

    - Season 1 team : TSL_FruitDealer, PipiJung, IMLosirA, TSL_Pooh, TSL_Pretty
    - Season 2 team : IMNestea, MakaPrime.WE, MarineKingPrime.WE, HongUnPrime.WE, IMMvp
    - Season 3 team : oGsMC, Liquid_Jinro, oGsInca, oGsTop, LeenockfOu

    Season 2 vs Season 3 is in 2 hours I think. Not interested?

    EDIT: here is the link http://www.gomtv.net/common/live.gom

    Saaruto on
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  • McSnugglesMcSnuggles Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Goddamnit dude I should get sleep.

    But that sounds interesting.

    McSnuggles on
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  • peacekeeperpeacekeeper AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I tried watching s1 v s2 last night, maka just marine/scv or bunker rushed fruitdealer and won everytime so I turned it off

    peacekeeper on
  • EggPuppetEggPuppet Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Saaruto wrote: »
    GUYS. Am I just late to the party or something? This starts pretty soon and no one has spoken about it... GOMtv has this Gisado Challenge My All Starz thingy. Basically King of the Hill with 5 players from each GSL competing. Season winner picks their team.

    - Season 1 team : TSL_FruitDealer, PipiJung, IMLosirA, TSL_Pooh, TSL_Pretty
    - Season 2 team : IMNestea, MakaPrime.WE, MarineKingPrime.WE, HongUnPrime.WE, IMMvp
    - Season 3 team : oGsMC, Liquid_Jinro, oGsInca, oGsTop, LeenockfOu

    Season 2 vs Season 3 is in 2 hours I think. Not interested?

    EDIT: here is the link http://www.gomtv.net/common/live.gom

    Gisado challenge has been going on for a few nights I think, last night saw some bitchin' Maka games. The mass raven & mule one was particularly fun. Maka knows how to diss on a fool.

    EggPuppet on
  • McSnugglesMcSnuggles Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Mass raven/mule?

    What.

    McSnuggles on
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  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Early ghosts are great. The sheer mind-fuckery of nukes is awesome... they don't really do all that much by way of damage but holy god do people ever start panicking and dropping detectors like they're going out of style

    Robman on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    nukes are area denial weapons which means they are fantastic in siege tank standoffs if you use them properly but not that great against the other races or non-siege tank Terran armies because of their mobility

    Dhalphir on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    Early ghosts are great. The sheer mind-fuckery of nukes is awesome... they don't really do all that much by way of damage but holy god do people ever start panicking and dropping detectors like they're going out of style

    the biggest reason I like early ghosts is I get to pretend the toss won't get hts once they know I have plenty of emp on the field

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    You and your damn ghosts means I don't even make it to HT stage!

    Ugh.

    Seguer on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    the problems I have with ghosts is that the only way I have to defeat heavy marauder compositions, even when I have colossi on the field, is with a lot of zealots and forcefield. Ghosts completely nullify the forcefield. Given warning, you can spread your sentries out so that you'll still have a couple with full energy for 4-5 forcefields, but thats it, and you'd better kill most of their forces there or you'll be in trouble.

    I wonder if maybe the only change a marauder needs is a slight build time increase. For such powerful units, a 2 base terran can rebuild them incredibly fast and of the t1 units they are definitely the most powerful, you cannot deny that.

    Dhalphir on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    as much as I argue in here I could live with a change to marauders. nothing ridiculous... they need to do some of the things they do imo, but something like a little less health or a little longer build I could accept.

    I am not cool with the removing stim or removing concussive ideas passed around from time to time, though

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    What is marauder health? 120?

    edit: 125.

    And they take 30 seconds to build.

    Say either increase the build time from 30 to 33 seconds, or drop the health from 125 to 115.

    Either of those I think would be a brilliant change.

    OR reduce the rate that medivacs heal at, but give them better healing efficiency. I think thats a big part of what makes marauders so great.

    Dhalphir on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    You do have to be careful with marauder nerfs, though. Zerg already has a much easier time dealing with them than Protoss, nerf them too much and roaches will become too strong vs Terran.

    Dhalphir on
  • EvangirEvangir Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think a reasonable change would be adding a Marauder health upgrade (either in addition to or as part of the combat shield upgrade), so that TvP early game is slightly weakened, while the late-game is unaffected. Terran already has enough trouble with vP late-game, and the Marauder is the staple unit.

    Evangir on
    PSN/XBL/STEAM: Evangir - Starcraft 2: Bulwark.955 - Origin: Bulwark955 - Diablo 3: Bulwark#1478
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    That I could definitely get behind, but the research would need to be higher tier than Combat Shields. Perhaps require a Factory, the way that Nitro packs do.

    Marauders could be 110 hp without the upgrade and 125 or even 130 with it.

    Dhalphir on
  • TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    That GOM stream not working for anyone else?

    TheBog on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    What about an overall stim nerf? Reduce the duration to 10 from 12 seconds maybe? I don't know. I'm just trying to think of ways to make Marauders less dominant early game and during the transition to midgame vs Protoss, without changing the lategame balance and their ability to deal with Zerg units.

    Something also has to be done about how quickly a small marauder drop (two medivacs full) can snipe a Nexus or Hatchery. Eight marauders, even if you have a couple troops there to fend them off, can probably kill that expansion before you can reinforce with your army, and a slightly bigger drop of 12 will definitely kill it before you can do anything about it unless you already have your army there.

    Dhalphir on
  • GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    i don't think marauders need stim. the main thing it's used for is mobility (edit: and sniping buildings I guess), but that seems a bit unfair. imbalanced? meh, maybe not...but I don't think it'd be such a terrible thing if terrans had to work a bit harder to manage their armies.

    like i said, the main thing is i don't think marauders need stim. they'd still be great without it.


    as far as ghosts go, i just don't like how they utterly nullify sentries, immortals, and HTs. Sure. HTs do something similar to medivacs, infestors, etc., but feedback is considerably harder to pull off since it's not an AoE and HTs are incredibly slow. The movement speed of ghosts makes such a difference compared to HTs. I don't really have a suggestion to fix the problem though...maybe decrease their range by 2.

    Guek on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Maybe stim could increase attack speed only in exchange for taking less health from marauders?

    Dhalphir on
  • EvangirEvangir Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    They'd do even more poorly against chargelots and Colossi than they already do. That would also be incredibly bad for late-game TvP balance.

    Edit: Not that Marauders currently do poorly against Colossi currently... But they certainly would do poorly without the increased Stim movement speed.

    Evangir on
    PSN/XBL/STEAM: Evangir - Starcraft 2: Bulwark.955 - Origin: Bulwark955 - Diablo 3: Bulwark#1478
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    marauders don't do badly against chargelots...

    Dhalphir on
  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Evangir wrote: »
    They'd do even more poorly against chargelots and Colossi than they already do. That would also be incredibly bad for late-game TvP balance.

    Edit: Not that Marauders currently do poorly against Colossi currently... But they certainly would do poorly without the increased Stim movement speed.

    Maybe they'd have to *gasp* build stuff that isn't MMM?

    I hear Thors shrug off Storms, and we can't feedback them now either. Mech does fairly well vs both Collosi and Storms (with good placement).

    Seguer on
  • EvangirEvangir Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    marauders don't do badly against chargelots...

    Okay, I'll rephrase it a bit. Currently, Marauders with stim and micro will kill Chargelots. It just takes forever to eat through all that health, all the while taking shots from the chasing Stalkers. Marauders don't feel particularly effective against Zealots, and because of Colossi/Templar, going Marine heavy doesn't feel safe at all.

    This could certainly just be me being a mediocre player... But it seems the community opinion regarding TvP thinks that Terran feels too strong early and too weak late. A change like taking stim movespeed away from Marauders will really throw the matchup.

    And as far as Mech goes, the problem is mobility. Thors and Tanks are slow as fuck, and you don't have anything cool like Spider Mines to prevent the Protoss from going anywhere they want. Plus Immortals. And Phoenix.

    Evangir on
    PSN/XBL/STEAM: Evangir - Starcraft 2: Bulwark.955 - Origin: Bulwark955 - Diablo 3: Bulwark#1478
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Protoss armies are not mobile either.

    Dhalphir on
  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    or leave marauders alone because terran is fine


    thanks

    Feels Good Man on
  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Our robo stuff is pretty immobile too you know.

    Good luck trying to catch a bunch of marines running around the map with Collosi or High Templar.

    Seguer on
  • GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    what about the fact that marine/marauder/viking can overpower gateway/colossi? or that marine/marauder/ghost, if microed decently, can also decimate gateway/HTs? Throw ravens in the mix for PDDs or medivacs to supplement bio and I really don't think taking away stim for marauders would ruin the matchup.

    and though thors and tanks are pretty slow, that doesn't mean they're not useful against toss. immortals do counter them pretty fierce though

    Guek on
  • EvangirEvangir Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Robo stuff is not immobile compared to Siege Tanks. Plus, you can use Warp-in to harass almost anywhere, which is a significant weakness of Mech builds. MMM+G isn't the standard because Terran players are lazy. It's because Mech is so slow and unsafe.

    Marauder balance changes that affects early and late-game differently is just fine. I don't think any reasonable Terran would argue with that. Something that breaks Marauders completely though... Though I'm sure we'll disagree with what could be considered breaking Marauders.

    Evangir on
    PSN/XBL/STEAM: Evangir - Starcraft 2: Bulwark.955 - Origin: Bulwark955 - Diablo 3: Bulwark#1478
  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    or leave marauders alone because terran is fine


    thanks

    Feels Good Man on
  • wiltingwilting Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I don't want Marauders to get some kind of late game buff, I'd prefer to be doing something different than just building Marauders.

    wilting on
  • EggPuppetEggPuppet Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Tanks, ghosts, and ravens are excellent and if you're not using some of them in your lategame, you probably should.

    EggPuppet on
  • peacekeeperpeacekeeper AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    ret is streaming you zergers

    peacekeeper on
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Guek wrote: »
    i don't think marauders need stim. the main thing it's used for is mobility (edit: and sniping buildings I guess), but that seems a bit unfair. imbalanced? meh, maybe not...but I don't think it'd be such a terrible thing if terrans had to work a bit harder to manage their armies.

    like i said, the main thing is i don't think marauders need stim. they'd still be great without it.


    as far as ghosts go, i just don't like how they utterly nullify sentries, immortals, and HTs. Sure. HTs do something similar to medivacs, infestors, etc., but feedback is considerably harder to pull off since it's not an AoE and HTs are incredibly slow. The movement speed of ghosts makes such a difference compared to HTs. I don't really have a suggestion to fix the problem though...maybe decrease their range by 2.

    as P, my biggest problem with ghosts was when they were early, and came with a host of marauders. 3-4 (well placed) EMPs drains all the shields, and mana, and the toss army, including buildings just melts to a laughable amount of marauders, and unless you can tease out EMPs from the ghosts, you're boned.

    Joe K on
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Evangir wrote: »
    Robo stuff is not immobile compared to Siege Tanks. Plus, you can use Warp-in to harass almost anywhere, which is a significant weakness of Mech builds. MMM+G isn't the standard because Terran players are lazy. It's because Mech is so slow and unsafe.

    Yeah man if only Terrans had some kind of drop harass capability.

    Dot dot dot.

    Also, Immortals, Colossus and tanks are the same speed. Hellions are faster than anything toss have. I'm not trying to be all imba-imba but complaining about a lack of mobility and drop capability as T compared to P?

    PantsB on
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  • WhatWhat Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    or leave marauders alone because terran is fine


    thanks

    What on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    PantsB wrote: »
    Evangir wrote: »
    Robo stuff is not immobile compared to Siege Tanks. Plus, you can use Warp-in to harass almost anywhere, which is a significant weakness of Mech builds. MMM+G isn't the standard because Terran players are lazy. It's because Mech is so slow and unsafe.

    Yeah man if only Terrans had some kind of drop harass capability.

    Dot dot dot.

    Also, Immortals, Colossus and tanks are the same speed. Hellions are faster than anything toss have. I'm not trying to be all imba-imba but complaining about a lack of mobility and drop capability as T compared to P?

    Seriously.

    Medevacs are the most ridiculous unit. "Oh hey, here's a unit I need to build anyway. It is super easy to get, can fly, can HEAL, can transport units and is also pretty fast. It has all those things FROM THE START without the need for any upgrades."
    Seriously, a DROPSHIP THAT CAN HEAL. If I warp in like, 4 zealots in your base, you can defend with a small amount of units. If the T drops in like 4 Marauders the Medevac will just heal them and I need way more units to defend against that.

    I really, REALLY do not like MedEvacs.

    Klyka on
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  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited December 2010
    god the ragequit.tv guy or whatever is like crota level bad

    undeinPirat on
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  • wiltingwilting Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Klyka wrote: »
    Medevacs are the most ridiculous unit. "Oh hey, here's a unit I need to build anyway....

    I'm super lazy about getting Medevacs, so I don't know about the 'need to build anyway' thing.

    Sounds like I should get them more often though. :winky:
    god the ragequit.tv guy or whatever is like crota level bad

    I find it unwatchable.

    wilting on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    sort of like how you need pylons anyway and they grant extreme mobility for fresh troops.

    and zerg should spread creep anyway and they get that bonus

    I tried to say a small thing to marauders would be cool, then I go to sleep and come back to see you want to get rid of stim? I don't think there's any imbalance at all, let alone one so severe you should remove a staple ability from a unit.

    also... forever people will say marauders can kite chargelots... but do you realize how long that takes? and how much attention? I don't like to micro for five minutes to deal with equal number zealots (assuming you have -nothing else- that can shoot my maurauders while I'm microing) and that's what it takes. that's a supreme example of the problem of theorycrafting. something that is technically possible but is not all that likely to occur in a real game. that is, infinite kiting of chargelots.


    also I don't consider colossus immobile because they can walk in a direct line over and cliffs. that changes things drastically.

    pure MMM gets complained about, and gets beat by a lot of things. then our counters to those things (ghost, stim to move out the way of storm with the littlest bit of health left) are also complained about. it's a bit much.

    Variable on
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  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think Marauders and Medivacs are basically fine. If they have lots of medivacs it means they don't have something else. And marauders... well, they're just a really good unit. Not even the scariest unit terran has.
    Variable wrote: »
    also I don't consider colossus immobile because they can walk in a direct line over and cliffs. that changes things drastically.

    Only thing I'd say to that is, you'd be more right if colossus were safer by themselves. But since they get roundly buttfucked without gateway support, I think the cliffwalking thing is not as useful as it appears.

    GoodKingJayIII on
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