The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Need help with my Lack of Relationships
SoulFury
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
TLDR Version: I need help and suggestions on things I can do to meet women and how to talk to them.
Long Version: I am desperate and I am reaching out to the vast Internet conciseness of the H/A forum to help me out of my drought.
I have been single since May of 2002 after my first and only relationship of 3 years. That is a long time for anyone but to be honest I have really only even been attempting to meet women to date in the last 2 years. My quest has been largely unsuccessful but I feel I have made significant self improvements in that time. Just as a small list here are some of the things I have done to try and better myself in order to become more attractive to the opposite sex.
The first thing is after my previous relationship I was mildly depressed for the better part of 5 or 6 years. So after consulting my PCP I was put on an SSRI which as significantly improved my self image and world view.
Exercise, Exercise, Exercise. I've gone from a sickly 6'1 120 lbs to a healthy 6'1 160 lbs. I am still shocked when I look in the mirror and I have muscle instead of bone. I'll never be a Mr. Universe or on a P90X commercial but I am still super proud of my accomplishment.
Lots of reading. I felt I really need to expand my horizons beyond bad TV and World of Warcraft so I have read just about any and every book that has been suggested to me. A few like Atlas Shrugged have been had a huge impact on how I see and relate to the world. I've also read a lot of Self Help and New Age stuff to try and better understand why people, including myself, behave or respond.
Lasik eye surgery. Thought I would be more attractive without the glasses. Dunno if it worked or not but it sure is nice not having to wear them.
There was a while I was really interested in some of the stuff from the PUA community too. There were a few things here and there that were interesting but it always seemed too manipulative to me so I never actively tried any of their methods. They did have some good stuff every once in a while on bettering ones self which is what I really got out of them. But overall its not really something that I am interested in pursuing.
Vision boards, making lists, using the Law of Attraction. Yes I saw and read The Secret. Reading it again now actually. I really want to believe in the power of positive thinking. Even if there is no "magic" in it I have to believe that just generally being more optimistic about live is going to be more attractive to women then being all mopey and sullen.
Online dating. I have tried just about all of the big websites. PlentyofFish, eHarmoney, Match.com, Singles.net, Cupid.com you name it. I've had help from the female friends I trust the most in writing profiles and picking pictures. Even in writing messages to women on these sites. End the end I have been disappointed in all of them. I don't know what it is that I am doing wrong but I cannot seem to get anyone to respond... ever.
Finally in my last ditch effort before slipping back into depression I started seeing a therapist about 6 months ago which is helping me stay level and motivated to keep trying.
So I ask you H/A as someone who is mostly a homebody, gamer, Internet junkie what else can I do to try and meet that special someone? Even if it is not "The One" what can I do to even start to have dates?
Here is my other major issue. Say I do meet someone who I would like to ask out on a date. What the hell am I suppose to say?
Long Version: I am desperate and I am reaching out to the vast Internet conciseness of the H/A forum to help me out of my drought.
I have been single since May of 2002 after my first and only relationship of 3 years. That is a long time for anyone but to be honest I have really only even been attempting to meet women to date in the last 2 years. My quest has been largely unsuccessful but I feel I have made significant self improvements in that time. Just as a small list here are some of the things I have done to try and better myself in order to become more attractive to the opposite sex.
The first thing is after my previous relationship I was mildly depressed for the better part of 5 or 6 years. So after consulting my PCP I was put on an SSRI which as significantly improved my self image and world view.
Exercise, Exercise, Exercise. I've gone from a sickly 6'1 120 lbs to a healthy 6'1 160 lbs. I am still shocked when I look in the mirror and I have muscle instead of bone. I'll never be a Mr. Universe or on a P90X commercial but I am still super proud of my accomplishment.
Lots of reading. I felt I really need to expand my horizons beyond bad TV and World of Warcraft so I have read just about any and every book that has been suggested to me. A few like Atlas Shrugged have been had a huge impact on how I see and relate to the world. I've also read a lot of Self Help and New Age stuff to try and better understand why people, including myself, behave or respond.
Lasik eye surgery. Thought I would be more attractive without the glasses. Dunno if it worked or not but it sure is nice not having to wear them.
There was a while I was really interested in some of the stuff from the PUA community too. There were a few things here and there that were interesting but it always seemed too manipulative to me so I never actively tried any of their methods. They did have some good stuff every once in a while on bettering ones self which is what I really got out of them. But overall its not really something that I am interested in pursuing.
Vision boards, making lists, using the Law of Attraction. Yes I saw and read The Secret. Reading it again now actually. I really want to believe in the power of positive thinking. Even if there is no "magic" in it I have to believe that just generally being more optimistic about live is going to be more attractive to women then being all mopey and sullen.
Online dating. I have tried just about all of the big websites. PlentyofFish, eHarmoney, Match.com, Singles.net, Cupid.com you name it. I've had help from the female friends I trust the most in writing profiles and picking pictures. Even in writing messages to women on these sites. End the end I have been disappointed in all of them. I don't know what it is that I am doing wrong but I cannot seem to get anyone to respond... ever.
Finally in my last ditch effort before slipping back into depression I started seeing a therapist about 6 months ago which is helping me stay level and motivated to keep trying.
So I ask you H/A as someone who is mostly a homebody, gamer, Internet junkie what else can I do to try and meet that special someone? Even if it is not "The One" what can I do to even start to have dates?
Here is my other major issue. Say I do meet someone who I would like to ask out on a date. What the hell am I suppose to say?
SoulFury on
0
Posts
Have you considered doing something outside of your house? Like taking a cooking class at a local college or a spinning class at a gym? You've described yourself as a homebody, but you're not gonna find women there..get out and do something new, it might even help your depression by dedicating yourself to a new hobby. You might be out of your comfort zone, but you'll get used to that.
I think it's excellent that you've really tried to reevaluate and better yourself without falling into the "oh woe is me" category. This should be a very attractive quality to any woman.
And as for what you say when you meet women...well, maybe you oughtta find one first and jump that hurdle when you come to it instead of worrying about it now :-P
Could you perhaps go into more detail in regards to what you meant here? I am quite curious, as you are very well spoken, why you chose to use "disappointed in" vs. 'disappointed by'.
The two bolded may be related. Get out there and do stuff. If you do things, you'll have stuff to talk about. Experiences create stories that you can share and also offer you the chance to meet new people.
Do you have a intramural dodgeball league in the area or something?
Number one thing, if you want to meet someone, is you have to get out of the house and do activities where you can meet people.
Meetup.com Yo.
Gotta be something in there you can do that would be fun for you.
Also, asking people out isn't that difficult, once you get the hang of it. In my experience on OKCupid, after exchanging a few messages "want to go for coffee sometime soon?" works pretty well.
Try to have as busy a social life as you can deal with, you're probably an introvert, like myself, so you'll need your down time, but having a busy, interesting life is a major asset on any date. Invariably, on a first date/coffee meet up, I am always asked what I'm doing for the rest of the day or what my plans for the week are. You need to have something to say!
I'm not sure about your religion or region, but reform Jewish services around here usually have an incredible female to male ratio.
Do they not like you because you have trouble continuing conversation? If that is the case then you just need more dates?
Do you not like the ladies involved? this could be due to unrealistic expectations.
Do the ladies seem interested and then peter off? It might be because you aren't being forward enough.
These are just some ideas, you've put down a lot of information in your OP but you really haven't put down what we need to know.
Why aren't the dates working?
Satans..... hints.....
You sound really fixated on all the changes you've made in your life, but honestly, the women probably don't care. Just be normal. Make conversation. Keep your messages short and simple. Too much can scare people off. Just let things happen naturally.
A watched pot never boils. Just live your life, get out, maybe find a social job and meet people through your coworkers?
I meant to address this and forgot but it's true, if you do X & Y women don't magically want to date you. Being attractive doesn't mean either people want to date you, it's just a simple way to get their attention. Once you have their attention then you need to do something with it.
Satans..... hints.....
These books make you subscribe to the simplistic worldview of their authors and will tell you that life is some sort of game you can win by following a certain set of rules. It isn't.
It appears you need to follow this man's advice:
I'm not even joking. Get out, go have fun and stop giving a shit.
Whenever I get ready for a night out, I listen to Denis Leary's Asshole Song on repeat while I'm getting showered/dressed. Why? Cause that way I get into a "don't give a fuck" mood and I've met a lot of cool people and gotten into some rather bizarre/fun situations cause of it.
Happiness perpetuates happiness.
Rarely is a drastic life change of some sort needed. I'm making one right now just because my town is dead and that's not even an exagerration. We've been bleeding population every year and businesses keep closing. So, I'm moving to Anchorage just so that I can get some of my old hobbies going again (epee fencer extraordinaire!) and have access to a more lively nightlife. That's a positive, non-emo sorta change. Trying to alter who you are is just gonna keep making you feel inadequate and depressed. Stop giving a fuck and get out there.
There are some basic things that everyone should address and are totally universal:
1.)Get out of the house. Get some hobbies that involve not being home all day. You can't meet anyone sitting around all the time.
2.)If going out by yourself to a club/bar, showing up in your day time street clothes just makes you look like a poor drunk. You'd be surprised what a cheap sport shirt and some decent jeans can do for you. The Men's Wearhouse is a great place to go and say "help" at.
3.)Stop obsessing over being single. You'll find that relationships just sorta happen if you're out there and enjoying life instead of getting all depressed over it.
This is no joke. One of my friends put up a profile with no photos at all, and minimal information, and she gets several messages a day. She stopped even reading most of them after the first week or so, there were just too many to go through. If the profile didn't grab her attention immediately the message just got ignored.
The other aspect to this is that the fact is, there are a LOT of guys that just send a message to any and every girl, whether they have something in common or not. If you're anything like me (and i suspect you may be at least a little, based on your self-description in this thread) then you read the profiles and pick who you message with some degree of consideration. Unfortunately, the sheer volume of guys that do no such thing will cause some or even most of your messages to get lost in the noise. That's just how it is, so don't take it personally. Keep trying, you never know when it will be your message and profile that appeals.
The most important thing though is to keep your profile brief, and the same with your messages. And set up a meet in person date as soon as is reasonable, I'd say 3-4 messages tops, and/or around a week after the initial message. You don't want to spend a bunch of time just to find out you have no chemistry, and you also don't want her to start wondering if you're really that interested, and open the door to one of the many other guys who have been sending messages. Lets be conservative using half Esh's numbers and say the girl is getting 10 messages a day from other guys. You wait a week, thats 70... SEVENTY... guys that are also looking to get a date with this girl. So don't wait too long.
Now, most of us aren't willing to do something like that. But if you want to meet the right girl, you have to put yourself in situations and settings where you can meet a lot of different women. Online dating is one avenue, but you need to branch out to real-world settings. And I'm not really talking about bars.
Are you religious? Many different churches and places of worship have groups for single people. (a good friend of mine met his wife at Temple).
Do you have an interest in learning something new, like how to paint, cook or make origami? Take a class. (Another friend met his wife at a Smithsonian seminar series on art).
You mentioned that you've focused more on exercising in recent years. If you're like most of us, you probably do your workouts alone. Why not join a running club or recreational sports league? (another couple I know met in a kickball league).
The inability to meet new people is a common complaint, especially when people leave high school/college and enter the real world. Outside of those settings, you aren't constantly making new acquaintances in your age group.
Rigorous Scholarship
Disappointed in the sites not by the people. Biggest complaint is that I litterally have had not one person reply on any of the sites that I have tried. It is disheartening to say the least espically when you really do put a lot of time and effort into sending a message that says more then "Hey whats up".
Didn't even know it was there but I am all over it now!
You sir also rock! I keep forgetting about the Meetup.com. My therapist has recommended a few times as well and I really need to take a look.
It's not that the dates aren't working it that there aren't any dates.
Tucson, AZ and yes it is cold and may snow here tonight.
How about finding some friends? hang out with your friends - it is unlikely you are the only person they know. Meeting new people doesn't always mean forcing yourself to do new things. Do what you like. Try things you've always wanted to but never have. Buy something nice for yourself.
It's totally cliche but it's true when people say you need to be happy alone before you can find someone to be with. Learn to enjoy your life and look at the positives. Do you have a job? Do you live alone? Do you get to do pretty much whatever you want because you are an independent human being?
It was when I stopped caring so much about looking for guys that I found my boyfriend through one of my best friends and whom I've been with almost a year now. And he's someone I've been acquainted with for years!
That's where I had my best luck when I was on OkCupid. I rarely wrote anyone, and the ones I did, we had enough in common that 9/10 times I got a response back and generally a date planned.
What, specifically, are you saying? Can you provide an example?
The mistake of the inexperienced is to invest a lot of time and worry into every single adjective in an effort to craft a lengthy and artful missive that communicates interest in a way that doesn't actually communicate interest. However, women aren't issued decoder rings with their first box of tampons and training bras. Consequently, it is not only unnecessary to spend a lot of time and effort on this sort of thing; it can actually be counter-productive and distract from the actual purpose of your communication, which is to say "Hey, it seems like we might have a lot in common and I'd be interested in getting to know you. Can I buy you a cup of coffee later this week?"
It's a good idea to wait a couple messages into the conversation before attempting to initiate a date.
You can leave off the last bit if you really want. But back in the 20th century when we met women in grocery stores or bars or parties, the polite thing to do was to ask for a phone number so you could set up a date, and that's almost exactly how the question went. "Hey, so I had a great time meeting you, and I'd be interested in getting to know you better; can I get your phone number so I can call and set up a date later this week?"
My advice is targeted more at the notion that there's a gimmick or some special linguistic art required to meet women, which I gathered from the fact that the OP mentioned reading stuff from Pick Up Artists and has not only read but is actually re-reading The Secret.
Exactly, when you meet in person you have banter, back and forth, conversation. That doesn't happen when you just send one message to someone and immediately ask them out. You simulate the in person conversation with a series of messages between the two people. Then, if things seem clicky, meet up somewhere.
Also, don't ask for a number unless it's offered. Just offer to meet somewhere.
Soulfury, this question speaks to two different related problems: first, you're lacking self-confidence, which is also evident from several other parts of your post. Second, you're over thinking it. You're looking for a gimmick or some linguistic art that will successfully navigate for you the difficulties of asking a woman out on a date.
Stop reading The Secret; the only secret is that there isn't one. If you meet a girl and want to ask her out on a date, the only surefire way of accomplishing this is to ask her out on a date. The way I suggested that in my penultimate post went like this:
You obviously don't have to use this specific sentence verbatim, but I do strongly encourage you to do two key things that this sentence accomplishes:
How would you feel if I invited you to join me for a vacation in Hawaii, but an hour after you dropped your luggage off in your hotel room, I started pressuring you into buying a timeshare at the resort?
The first time you try doing this, it will seem terrifying. By unambiguously expressing what you want, you are also opening yourself up to the possibility of unambiguous rejection. This is actually why it works better than any ruse. It takes a lot of confidence to put yourself out on the line like that, and confidence is a very attractive character trait. Furthermore, women actually want to be asked out . Even when a girl decides that she's ultimately not interested, it's flattering to have someone treat her honestly, respectfully and like she's worth the risk of a rejection. She'll appreciate it way more than some strategem or pickup line you read in The Game.
Just to offer a counterpoint here, I wouldn't use the word "date". I've been out on many dates, and I've never used that word when asking someone out. If you ask a relative stranger out to dinner, coffee, whatever, it's kinda implied. Now, this has actually gotten me into trouble, because 90% of my friends are women and often I'll ask a girl to just "hang out" or whatever with no romantic intentions and it gets misconstrued that I am in fact asking them out. What I'm trying to say is that using the "date" word is a very clumsy way of phrasing things and generally unnecessary.
Be straight up. Ask them out. Don't play games. I'd avoid the "D" word though. It can actually scare women off. It's very stiff. Maybe I'm just better at reading when it's appropriate to ask someone out or not. I can see the signs a mile away when I know if I'm going to get a "yes" or "no" response from asking someone out and I hedge my bets that way. I've never had any issues or complications (aside from the exact opposite of what you've described) when asking a girl out.
There's so much more in social interactions than just what we say, and I'd seriously encourage the OP to start watching for body language, tone, etc. in the girls that he's interested in. You can't (well, you can, but with very limited success) just ask out whoever you find interesting without first attempting to gauge if they're interested in return.
An aside, I'm not arguing, or attempting to smack down your opinion, just making friendly discourse on what has worked for me time and time again.
I get asked out by socially awkward guys and/or really shy and insecure guys at work(comic shop) every once in a while.
Except that I never know they're asking me on a date.
I am faulted often for being too modest, so when a guy casually tries to ask me to "hang out", I think he wants to make friends. So I agree. But because they use the words "hang out" and not "go on a date", I end up in a bad situation because I have a boyfriend and absolutely have no intention to two time him, but I didn't think I was.
It's happened multiple times and it just gets stressful for me because of the miscommunication and then I start to feel slight resentment because hey, why CAN'T we just be friends anyway?
USE THE D WORD.
You sound like you're trying really hard, I mean really hard, to have a relationship. To the point where I'm comfortable saying you're trying too hard and sound very nearly desperate to be in a good relationship. Yeah, we all want to have that good companionship and love and sex, etc. but the old adage of you have to be happy with yourself to be happy with someone else is the absolute truth.
All of that self-improvement, all that reading and exercising and Lasik and PUA/The Secret bullshit (seriously, knock that off), did you do that because you wanted to be a better, happier person or did you do it because you hoped that someone else would notice and realize you're awesome and worship the ground you walk on? That second thing doesn't happen, and the harder you try the more frustrated you're going to get that it isn't happening. And eventually you'll be so frustrated that people are noticing how awesome you are that you'll get wrapped up in the "bitches are intimidated by how awesome I am" and that just doesn't work for anyone.
Stop focusing on finding a relationship. Turn off the internet, go out, do things, meet people, hang out with friends and ask ladies to date you (yes, as another lady I seriously suggest you use the word "date").
And when the ladies say no, because most of them are going to say no (that's just how it works), don't be discouraged! Keep asking, someone will say yes, and eventually one of the ladies that says yes will be that good relationship, and in the meantime you've gathered all this dating experience about fun things to do together and how to have a conversation with someone you're getting to know better.
It really is very situational. Very situational. If you use the "D word" with certain people, it's going to come off really awkward. Other people need that giant flashing neon sign. Like you admit to needing.
The OP is still in the learning phases of "how to date". There's going to be a lot of fuck ups and face planting in his future. If he can suffer through those, and god this makes me sound like a smug ass, he'll eventually hit the level that I'm at where one can be a little more subtle and learn to recognize what I see as obvious signs, but other people may be oblivious to. Neither of us is pitching a wrong or right way to go about things, rather different levels and different plays on a theme.
All the coaching here is not going to turn him into any sort of expert no matter how hard we try. It's a learning experience, and the best way to learn is to fail. The worst way to learn is to try and hang out on dating sites. You've got to get out into the "real world" more. Being an introvert as he describes himself is just going to end in a lot of bitterness and frustration.
Speaking from experience, a better approach is to do stuff you like to do with others, and if one of those others is your preferred sex, go from there and see what happens.