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So yeah, new ESP paper, what will be the inevitable flaw that comes out when it's out

agentk13agentk13 __BANNED USERS regular
edited January 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
So I'm sure a few a few of you have heard about this:
One of psychology’s most respected journals has agreed to publish a paper presenting what its author describes as strong evidence for extrasensory perception, the ability to sense future events.
...
In one classic memory experiment, for example, participants study 48 words and then divide a subset of 24 of them into categories, like food or animal. The act of categorizing reinforces memory, and on subsequent tests people are more likely to remember the words they practiced than those they did not.

In his version, Dr. Bem gave 100 college students a memory test before they did the categorizing — and found they were significantly more likely to remember words that they practiced later. “The results show that practicing a set of words after the recall test does, in fact, reach back in time to facilitate the recall of those words,” the paper concludes.

In another experiment, Dr. Bem had subjects choose which of two curtains on a computer screen hid a photograph; the other curtain hid nothing but a blank screen.

A software program randomly posted a picture behind one curtain or the other — but only after the participant made a choice. Still, the participants beat chance, by 53 percent to 50 percent, at least when the photos being posted were erotic ones. They did not do better than chance on negative or neutral photos.

“What I showed was that unselected subjects could sense the erotic photos,” Dr. Bem said, “but my guess is that if you use more talented people, who are better at this, they could find any of the photos.”

So, what will the problem end up being? I'm betting that the computer gave subconscious clues by having slight color distortion on the areas with something behind the "curtain."

agentk13 on

Posts

  • DramDram Old Salt Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Apparently any time machines constructed in the future will have to be highly erotic to work.

    Dram on
  • edited January 2011
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  • agentk13agentk13 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2011
    Is 100 college students really a statistically significant sample compared to whatever improvement % they found?

    EDIT: Actually, that article also doesn't say how many participants the second experiment had to start with. 53% is god damn tiny.

    That was the main criticism. It didn't use Bayesian analysis

    agentk13 on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    This "one of the most respected journals" must be having funding issues.

    Incenjucar on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Maybe this is just one of the occasional papers that managed to leap the 5% significance barrier? You know, it's got to happen every now and then. Even in the utter adherence to statistical discipline (which appears to be frequentist rather than Bayesian...? Which isn't unusual for many sciences. But I haven't read the paper).

    Getting past peer review is surprising, though.

    ronya on
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  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    That's a terrible sample size. Guy should be embarrassed to even release this. You can flip a coin the same amount of times and end up with the same result; just because the chance is 50/50, that doesn't mean you'll end up with a perfect 50/50 split every time. Just normal statistical noise from a small sample size of poor research.

    Edit: Maybe he's actually doing a study on how often a terrible research paper can get published if you bullshit enough.

    Surprise! It's 100% of the time*!
    * - based on sample size

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    ronya wrote: »
    Maybe this is just one of the occasional papers that managed to leap the 5% significance barrier?

    This. If you do enough ESP experiments, one will find 'significant' results because that's how randomness works.

    MrMister on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Sample size is disappointing but its still going to be worth a read.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I really want someone to do the same tests with people who claim to be unusually or extremely psychic.

    And then when the numbers are very similar to the 'normal' people we can all lol and lol.

    Regina Fong on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    That's a terrible sample size. Guy should be embarrassed to even release this. You can flip a coin the same amount of times and end up with the same result; just because the chance is 50/50, that doesn't mean you'll end up with a perfect 50/50 split every time. Just normal statistical noise from a small sample size of poor research.

    Edit: Maybe he's actually doing a study on how often a terrible research paper can get published if you bullshit enough.

    Surprise! It's 100% of the time*!
    * - based on sample size

    Well, that's what significance testing is for.

    Problem is that every now and then even significance testing will have false positives. Consider a well-designed, entirely scientifically rigorous (double-blinded, etc.) battery of tests for ESP. Repeat it enough times - not even intentionally, perhaps over decades and by different researchers - and there will randomly be false positives; results which are significant (given their sample sizes, etc.) despite an underlying absence of ESP.

    IAPW we log all such experimental data and so on, allowing future researchers to combine past and new data, but this is difficult to do.

    ronya on
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  • JoeslopJoeslop Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    agentk13 wrote: »
    So I'm sure a few a few of you have heard about this:
    “The results show that practicing a set of words after the recall test does, in fact, reach back in time to facilitate the recall of those words,” the paper concludes.

    Are we sure he didn't accidentally prove time travel instead of ESP?

    Joeslop on
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Someone light the James Randi Signal!

    KalTorak on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It's not lying about any of its results (one step forward), but the results are pretty poor.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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