So as it stands now, if someone pressed a disc signed with the master code, it would run code on any PS3, modded or not? What if it wasn't a Blu-Ray, and was a DVD?
Yes. As for DVD, as I understand it, a disc isn't even necessary. People could make PSN-like games as well that run purely from the HD, which is what most homebrew will be. As such, DVD should also be fine. It's just signed code, what it runs from is inconsequential.
If you are in GameOS, the boot/install code would have run from a usb flash drive, not from the optical drive. (PS3s still authenticate physical optical media) Once the program is installed, it can access the drive like it was any device.
In my hypothetical, I would wipe appldr (read: I will get rid of GameOS) and use lvl2 to boot android directly from the hard drive, removing Sony's copyrighted code, altogether.
As has been established there's nothing Sony can physically do to stop anything at all. So it's all going to happen. The reason why they're not going to yank it off the shelves is because it's cheaper to just sue everyone who gets big enough than anything else. Litigation will stop the Android store from taking off, but it'll probably exist (in some form or another and possibly very, very briefly).
Xeddicus on
"For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
As long as publishers can't choose to just release discs and sell them alongside licensed discs, there is still one layer too much obfuscation for the average customer. As long as average customers continue buying the software, even if there is a rise in piracy, I don't believe Sony will remove the PS3 from shelves.
Heleor on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Are you saying that major developers would stop paying for license kits and just make games that only people who use a hacked firmware can play?
No... That's the thing. You don't need hacked firmware. Being able to generate your own keys means you can make the software just work out of the box. No one needs to hack anything.
Because I cannot ever see this happening. It would be corporate suicide.
That revenue stream is 100% safe independent of this issue.
Hence, anyone playing those games is pirating.
What games are you talking about? How did you make the logic jump that using software is piracy? I'm not talking about copying games. I'm talking about the Notches of the world making their own indy games for the platform. Have you looked at the requirements to be a licensed developer for the PS3? You need a non-home office with a security system, insurance, published titles, and a million dollars in assets. That's even before you cough up 10 grand for the dev kit.
I'll take the cheap route thank you.
Why would Sony have any say over my copyright anyway if it's my code I'm developing? Because they don't want it running on their machine? Why do you think that console machines are somehow beyond reproach. They are computers, with CPUs, RAM, GPUs and network cards. They aren't some magical fairy fart that was given to us by prophets.
Like I said. What if I ported android to PS3? (Android is open source, the code is here and already has a mips port) That would open a whole new revenue stream for developers who don't need to buy a license from Sony. It will give you an app store independent of SCEA.
That's homebrew. Nothing wrong with homebrew.
I'm saying if you expect ubisoft (or any other major publisher) to produce a piece of software for the ps3 that uses these codes with the full intent of bypassing sony completely you are in a happy dreamworld. There's legal and then there's sonycide. Sonycide is commiting suicide by pissing them off.
You are in the same dreamworld if you expect homebrew to seriously affect major game developments.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
there is no way in hell any professional studio would release a significant title on pirated keys only to get sued by sony days later and have distribution shifted completely to the black market
licensing isn't going to be an issue
bsjezz on
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HeatwaveCome, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
But wouldn't suing their game developers put Sony at risk of having a game console without any more new games?
HeatwaveCome, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
It'll probably never happen, but if it did then Sony would be completely fucked. Sony needs games to help sell it's PS3. If all their game developers decided to stop making them games because they're being sued, then selling the PS3 could become a whole lot more difficult. But like I said, it'll probably never happen.
Sony have got far too much high profile PS3 software lineup up for the next 12 months to not sell the console. We might see a next console announcement from them sooner rather than later because of this, but the PS3 isn't going away in 2011.
there is no way in hell any professional studio would release a significant title on pirated keys only to get sued by sony days later and have distribution shifted completely to the black market
licensing isn't going to be an issue
These aren't pirated keys. They're reverse-engineered keys, and reverse-engineering is (in and of itself) perfectly legal. There are a bunch of complicating factors which may mean Sony has grounds to sue here, and a bunch more if you're a professional studio (those devkits will come with more robust contracts than simple EULAs, for example, and Sony will no doubt have serious issues with any retailer selling unlicensed software), but that doesn't mean that publishing unlicensed software is necessarily either illegal or a breach of contract.
That's the main reason, yeah, but "It isn't illegal." won't slow them down a beat and there's no "may" about it: Lawsuits will fly the second anyone tries to use the key for anything at all.
Xeddicus on
"For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
Yeah, the climate has changed since then. In today's world of big business and trigger-happy lawyers, there is no way a company could pull that off anymore. Instant lawsuit from Sony and potential blacklist from Microsoft/Nintendo. If you're a semi-serious group looking to break out into the video game market, you can forget ever releasing anything in an official capacity and can likely kiss your chance in the industry goodbye.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Yeah, the climate has changed since then. In today's world of big business and trigger-happy lawyers, there is no way a company could pull that off anymore.
Except that this situation has already happened. Atari sued companies releasing unlicensed games, the courts ruled against Atari
the current billion-dollar industry of videogames and this generation of vast multiplatform publishing projects is such a far cry from anything atari ever had its hands in makes whatever you are referring to a non-comparison
this is a terrible argument. sure, unlicensed games will be released for the ps3. no, it's not going to make a shit of a difference to the actual players in the market or the system's viability as a distribution platform for videogames
The laws are different now. The DMCA is a nasty piece of legislature. The upshot is "We don't care if you own it, if you are unlocking it without our permission, you a criminal" For example; you might own the DVD drive in your computer, and you may own that copy of "Scott Pilgrim", but using libdecss (VLC) to decrypt the disk so you can simply watch it is illigal in the US, and has been upheld by court of law.
What Holtz is banking on is that in this case, is that unlocking the PS3 is not unlocking copyrighted media content, but unlocking the device itself.
Sony, however says that the locks are in place to protect copyrighted works, and any kind of unlocking or circumventing of copy protection technologies is illegal per the DMCA... which it is.
In the end, I see this being a public policy ruling, if it gets that far. Holtz may be full of hubris now, but so were the bleem guys too. Pretty soon now they are going to attempt to put a gag order on him to keep him from discussing the trial altogether, and they are going to have all these court orders sealed so that we will not be able to see what's being filed. That will shut up the bad PR, and the trial will go incredibly silent.
I'm fairly certain actually that the actor knew full well what it meant, and did it anyway.
He seems to have a certain degree of freedom when he acts on his own, which is why they've lately confined him to promos and acting only. There has to be some sort of contract shield he has going on, whenever he makes stage performances, under which I'd believe Twitter counts - then again, anyone could be behind that Twitter account from Sony Marketing.
Though that's just an uneducated guess, so I could easily be wrong.
Still, it would be pretty fucking ignorant out of anyone behind that account not to know what that string was about. So I just believe it was intentional through and through.
After all, marketing doesn't have to align with legal.
Couldn't this cause them an issue in court? Sony essentially tweeted the thing they're suing, don't they have to sue that guy now, who was working for them?
I believe that key is actually the "dongle" key, not the "master" key. Still, it's amusing and obviously was done by mistake, hence why it's been deleted.
Erm, no professional publisher will ever release unlicensed games for a very simple reason:
Companies develop relationships along the years, and releasing unlicensed games would destroy that for good. the PS4 or whatever is going to be released one day, and Sony has a lot of power in other relevant arenas. EA, Take 2, Activision, all the japanese companies, none of them would risk a falling out with Sony of such magnitude.
On top of all that, the relationship of such publishers with Microsoft and Nintendo would also be seriously damaged. It's a very clear display of bad faith in general.
Finally, yeah, lawsuits. The publishers signed some pretty serious, valid, real contracts when they bought the rights to publish games.
Sony will definitely NOT lose the licensing dollars from those players that matter. That is an absurd, extreme scenario that could only happen in a world without context.
Plus, when Atari sued and lost back in the day, I'm fairly sure Trigen was coding their games without a little thing called a Developer Kit, which I hear are pretty important to making big budget blockbuster games, these days.
I highly doubt we'll see unlicensed games on the PS3 in the capacity that is being discussed here.
What's infinitely more likely is that someone ports the Android OS to the PS3 and it can access the marketplace with all of it's super cheap games and apps.
Which would actually be pretty rad. If there was a way to dual boot Android and GameOS on the PS3 I'd do it in a heartbeat.
What’s more, the company is demanding that a federal judge order Google to surrender the IP addresses and other identifying information (.pdf) of those who have viewed or commented about the jailbreak video on a private YouTube page. The game maker is also demanding that Twitter provide the identities of a host of hackers who first unveiled a limited version of the hack in December.
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Yes. As for DVD, as I understand it, a disc isn't even necessary. People could make PSN-like games as well that run purely from the HD, which is what most homebrew will be. As such, DVD should also be fine. It's just signed code, what it runs from is inconsequential.
In my hypothetical, I would wipe appldr (read: I will get rid of GameOS) and use lvl2 to boot android directly from the hard drive, removing Sony's copyrighted code, altogether.
That's homebrew. Nothing wrong with homebrew.
I'm saying if you expect ubisoft (or any other major publisher) to produce a piece of software for the ps3 that uses these codes with the full intent of bypassing sony completely you are in a happy dreamworld. There's legal and then there's sonycide. Sonycide is commiting suicide by pissing them off.
You are in the same dreamworld if you expect homebrew to seriously affect major game developments.
licensing isn't going to be an issue
Steam / Origin & Wii U: Heatwave111 / FC: 4227-1965-3206 / Battle.net: Heatwave#11356
but more likely, seeing as corporations have lots of lawyers to tell them "uhhhhhh this is bad" they wouldn't try it at all
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
Steam / Origin & Wii U: Heatwave111 / FC: 4227-1965-3206 / Battle.net: Heatwave#11356
Tell that to Sony. It's the reason they are litigating in the first place.
The main reason they're litigating is to try and scare people off trying this sort of thing in the future.
Yeah but that was the lawless era of video games.
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Except that this situation has already happened. Atari sued companies releasing unlicensed games, the courts ruled against Atari
this is a terrible argument. sure, unlicensed games will be released for the ps3. no, it's not going to make a shit of a difference to the actual players in the market or the system's viability as a distribution platform for videogames
What Holtz is banking on is that in this case, is that unlocking the PS3 is not unlocking copyrighted media content, but unlocking the device itself.
Sony, however says that the locks are in place to protect copyrighted works, and any kind of unlocking or circumventing of copy protection technologies is illegal per the DMCA... which it is.
In the end, I see this being a public policy ruling, if it gets that far. Holtz may be full of hubris now, but so were the bleem guys too. Pretty soon now they are going to attempt to put a gag order on him to keep him from discussing the trial altogether, and they are going to have all these court orders sealed so that we will not be able to see what's being filed. That will shut up the bad PR, and the trial will go incredibly silent.
Trying to overturn the DMCA is against the DMCA.
Now Sony's going to sue us all. Thanks.
I wish so hard that Kevin Butler was not only real, but was in charge over at Sony.
I take this as confirmation he probably had final say over the key and now has decided it's old and busted and wants a new one with more <somethings>.
He seems to have a certain degree of freedom when he acts on his own, which is why they've lately confined him to promos and acting only. There has to be some sort of contract shield he has going on, whenever he makes stage performances, under which I'd believe Twitter counts - then again, anyone could be behind that Twitter account from Sony Marketing.
Though that's just an uneducated guess, so I could easily be wrong.
Still, it would be pretty fucking ignorant out of anyone behind that account not to know what that string was about. So I just believe it was intentional through and through.
After all, marketing doesn't have to align with legal.
PSN: SirGrinchX
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Companies develop relationships along the years, and releasing unlicensed games would destroy that for good. the PS4 or whatever is going to be released one day, and Sony has a lot of power in other relevant arenas. EA, Take 2, Activision, all the japanese companies, none of them would risk a falling out with Sony of such magnitude.
On top of all that, the relationship of such publishers with Microsoft and Nintendo would also be seriously damaged. It's a very clear display of bad faith in general.
Finally, yeah, lawsuits. The publishers signed some pretty serious, valid, real contracts when they bought the rights to publish games.
Sony will definitely NOT lose the licensing dollars from those players that matter. That is an absurd, extreme scenario that could only happen in a world without context.
What's infinitely more likely is that someone ports the Android OS to the PS3 and it can access the marketplace with all of it's super cheap games and apps.
Which would actually be pretty rad. If there was a way to dual boot Android and GameOS on the PS3 I'd do it in a heartbeat.
This is probably the best part though: