This'll probably sound like a broken record, but you need to work on your macro. Especially if you want to 4 gate. Having tight macro is what makes that build work. Basically he went for an econ heavy build with the hatch before pool, and you went for a very aggressive unit-centric build which he managed to hold off. Work on always producing out of your structures, especially while you're doing other things like battles. Just as an example, watch your warp gates from the 14 to the 16 minute mark. You miss almost two rounds of units, which could have translated to 16 supply of army, a significant difference.
Also if you get to a zerg's natural, and they haven't expanded, personally I'd always prefer to block the expansion and force them to get the zergings out. You can micro around with the probe if you like, but I usually prefer to peek around the base. If you zing into the base and see a pool, you can either cancel the pylon before it finishes warping in, or let it finish just to delay the 2nd hatch a little longer.
I just remembered someone talking about streaming issues, saying that you could assign cores of your processor to the game/stream (I guess) to make it run better.
I think. I don't know mucha bout that stuff but I do know I have a beast of a computer and I ought to be able to stream without sc2 getting choppy.
if anyone wants to pm me or explain in here what the process is and/or if it helps, I would greatly appreciate it.
thanks doods.
Vari, are you using Xsplit? I have the same problem and I have a very good computer (i7-875k, ati 5870, 8 GB ram). SC gets very choppy feeling when I use xsplit. It drops my ingame fps to 50-60, which would be fine, but it doesn't look or feel like 50 fps it feels more like 20. For comparison I can stream with adobe FME and vhscrcap which should be more resource intensive and I get around 100 fps and no choppy feeling.
A possible fix would be to uncheck "optimize for motion picture" as this is what causes my problem. By unchecking it I get a 20 fps boost and the choppy feeling goes away. However, the stream will look very very jumpy/stuttery for your viewers. They just released an update though and I tried it out to see if it fixed anything. "optimize for motion picture" still makes it unplayable, but if I uncheck it, I seem to get acceptable performance on my stream. The stream still seems to hang for a split second every 30 seconds or so, but I'm not sure if that is purely due to that setting. I've been meaning to stream again and get feedback.
I'm way late on this but thanks very very much olorin I will try this out.
edit - olorin the way you describe the problem is -exactly- how it feels. I even said 'others might not notice it' because it feels super subtle.
excellent I'm excited about trying this out soon.
edit2 - of note, we have the same video card
...stream seems to still be quite choppy for the viewer if I disable that setting
Idra just lost while smurfing on JP's streaming show where they are doing KoTH. It was supposed to be publicity for a thing tomorrow. They expected Idra to win all night then they'd let everyone in on the joke.
JP is like I'll call him on skype so everyone believes that was him. Idra says no.
He was clearly goofing around. Broodlord zergling build, but that's funny.
redraptor on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Yea, pretty sure in classic KoTH fashion they are just pulling people from the audience.
They are playing on the new GSL maps. Idra took three bases really really quick. The other guy was a terran and went pure marine, then added two tanks to knock down Idras spine crawlers. The broodlords came out and got railed by two vikings out of position. Afterwards Idra made a ton of banelings but ran them off creep and not one out of like 15 exploded. He needed like two hits to destroy all the marines but no dice. He left right after.
I forget that map name, but it looks really great for zerg. A tight choke guarding three bases, the fourth isn't that bad to take either. Tons of air space for mutalisks. Also it uses the night time, swamp tileset which I'd never seen before.
redraptor on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Just played two games as Zerg, both on Xel'naga Caverns, one ZvP and one ZvT. Went Hatch first on both of them, and won both.
The ZvP was easy as hell, I didnt' get pressured at all, by the time he attacked I had 200/200 roach/hydra with 2/2 upgrades and I melted his army with one wave of reinforcements after the first engagement. But it was especially satisfying as he was a 2200 diamond protoss too.
The ZvT was a bit more stressful becuase I got bunker-rushed. It wasn't perfectly executed, he let his marines get out of position and didnt get my natural hatch down, but I think I held it off pretty well, then I went mutas and it was an easy victory from there.
Here's the ZvT replay.
I'd love some critique on anything I could improve about the play.
On a sidenote the new GSL maps are MASSIVE. The matches on these are like a completely different game all together. Many of them are roughly the size of 3v3 maps.
A lot of players would tend to turtle, but I think when you add in the aggresion of the korean server you will see some classic Starcraft I style action.
EDIT: WAIT WAIT, awesome translation incoming - "dosureba na iinda?" (anyone who actually knows Japanese, please let me know how accurate/horribly butchering the language this is)
Dou sureba iinda / Dou sureba iino
Satsumomo on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
On a sidenote the new GSL maps are MASSIVE. The matches on these are like a completely different game all together. Many of them are roughly the size of 3v3 maps.
A lot of players would tend to turtle, but I think when you add in the aggresion of the korean server you will see some classic Starcraft I style action.
After playing a few games, I'm feeling alot more comfortable with the way things work, and I'm getting over the fear of 'Oh I'm sure my opponent has a HUGE force, much bigger than mine!', because after watching replays, I notice that they're normally at the same place, sometimes I'm even ahead.
My biggest weakness right now, though, is my opening: The first 4 minutes of the game is a clusterfuck
I can't get my timing on when I should go for Rax, or Orbital Command, or when to start teching my buildings, etc. Once I get a base up and running, I'm super comfortable, don't get supply blocked, and can even expand to a new base, it's just that first four minutes KILLS me.
The Zerg player wasn't brilliant though. He floated a lot of minerals for a lot of time and was consistently about 20 drones behind where I think he should have been given he didn't make many lings early and you didn't pressure him at all.
I mean at one point he was on 3 bases and 10 workers behind you despite very little fighting going on.
His queens also stocked a lot of energy up meaning he was missing a ton of injects and he didnt even go for the consolation prize which is to macro hatch and use up the energy that way, or use the energy for creep spread.
That said, that was a fuckawesome demonstration of mech play vs Zerg and I enjoyed it a lot.
I can't really comment on your play as I don't know much about terran beyond how to 3rax.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
My biggest weakness right now, though, is my opening: The first 4 minutes of the game is a clusterfuck
I can't get my timing on when I should go for Rax, or Orbital Command, or when to start teching my buildings, etc. Once I get a base up and running, I'm super comfortable, don't get supply blocked, and can even expand to a new base, it's just that first four minutes KILLS me.
Thats an odd problem to have. There's nothing else going on so theoretically you should be able to focus your attention on it. Is it just that you dont have supply timings down or haven't actually looked up things like that?
As Terran you want to be going 10 depot 12 rax 14 gas, as standard, I believe, and that timing works out nicely with the minerals you'll have at those points.
Besides that you don't really need supply timings to throw down, can just have a rough goal like "I want 3 rax with 2 tech labs and 1 reactor off 1 base and 1 gas" and work towards that as you have minerals to build the raxes while constantly producing marines off your first rax and making scvs.
My biggest weakness right now, though, is my opening: The first 4 minutes of the game is a clusterfuck
I can't get my timing on when I should go for Rax, or Orbital Command, or when to start teching my buildings, etc. Once I get a base up and running, I'm super comfortable, don't get supply blocked, and can even expand to a new base, it's just that first four minutes KILLS me.
Thats an odd problem to have. There's nothing else going on so theoretically you should be able to focus your attention on it. Is it just that you dont have supply timings down or haven't actually looked up things like that?
As Terran you want to be going 10 depot 12 rax 14 gas, as standard, I believe, and that timing works out nicely with the minerals you'll have at those points.
Besides that you don't really need supply timings to throw down, can just have a rough goal like "I want 3 rax with 2 tech labs and 1 reactor off 1 base and 1 gas" and work towards that as you have minerals to build the raxes while constantly producing marines off your first rax and making scvs.
It's 13 gas, not 14. The rest is correct. You'll be getting your Orbital Command at 15 as soon as the Barracks finishes. This is pretty much the basic opening for every Terran in every match-up, unless you 1-rax expand without gas, or want an extremely early factory (which turns into 12 gas 13 barracks 16 OC, or something along those lines).
After playing a few games, I'm feeling alot more comfortable with the way things work, and I'm getting over the fear of 'Oh I'm sure my opponent has a HUGE force, much bigger than mine!', because after watching replays, I notice that they're normally at the same place, sometimes I'm even ahead.
My biggest weakness right now, though, is my opening: The first 4 minutes of the game is a clusterfuck
I can't get my timing on when I should go for Rax, or Orbital Command, or when to start teching my buildings, etc. Once I get a base up and running, I'm super comfortable, don't get supply blocked, and can even expand to a new base, it's just that first four minutes KILLS me.
I'm a bit late but I want to stress this point. Never try learning gameplay against the computer, it's good for spamming builds and for that I'd recommend yabot. The AI has 2-3 things that it does (usually a quick roach push or the like) and then it falls apart, it will teach you nothing. Also, the Very Hard AI cheats with income and the only way to beat it is do shit that would never work in a real game.
Your other points are good. Especially the approach of learning 1 build in yabot and then taking it to the ladder. When you grow tired of that one build you learn another one. After a while you'll notice which style that suits you and notice the nuances of the different strats that evolves from the initial builds.
ed. shit I forgot, [insert "1TA into diamond within a week" joke here]
Movitz on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Oh right, I always mix them up. Very Hard is the one that 5RRs right? Insane just stomps your face in with 50% more units than you at the 50 food mark.
I haven't played the comp since late beta so I'm a bit fussy on the details.
Anyway, don't play the comp and think you're learning the game. That was my point.
Movitz on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
The Zerg player wasn't brilliant though. He floated a lot of minerals for a lot of time and was consistently about 20 drones behind where I think he should have been given he didn't make many lings early and you didn't pressure him at all.
I mean at one point he was on 3 bases and 10 workers behind you despite very little fighting going on.
His queens also stocked a lot of energy up meaning he was missing a ton of injects and he didnt even go for the consolation prize which is to macro hatch and use up the energy that way, or use the energy for creep spread.
That said, that was a fuckawesome demonstration of mech play vs Zerg and I enjoyed it a lot.
I can't really comment on your play as I don't know much about terran beyond how to 3rax.
thanks dhal!
I went on to lose the next two games against Z but... they were scrap. which certain can be played well as terran but I didn't compensate for the ease of muta harass.
but I appreciate the comments. I noticed when I watched the replay that he didn't play all that well, floating minerals and energy, but I was happy with how I played:D
Thank you guys so much for the advice on the opening. I automatically see a huge difference in my play, and I'm almost tripling the medium AI's score on everything, and my graph is constantly going up, where it used to plateau quite often :^:
Oh right, I always mix them up. Very Hard is the one that 5RRs right? Insane just stomps your face in with 50% more units than you at the 50 food mark.
I haven't played the comp since late beta so I'm a bit fussy on the details.
Anyway, don't play the comp and think you're learning the game. That was my point.
The Very Hard AI competently executes an aggressive timing push.
You're basically ready for platinum if you can beat it consistently, it's a good training partner in that respect.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Australia Day Tournament!
Plenty of spots left!!!
Hey dudes!
For those of you who are part of this proud convict colony, we are rapidly approaching Jan 26th, Australia Day. It being a public holiday, but also being on a Wednesday, I am not really sure that I am going to do anything during the day, so I am going to host a tournament. This is not a Curvy Star tournament, just a normal one, open to all leagues and skills.
It is obviously also open to the non-Australians, (yes, you are defined by us and compared to us).
Time: Jan 25th at 8pm EST (thats the morning of Aus day (the 26th) for us Aussies, 9am West Australian time, midday for you eastern states types)
Sparky the Wonder Drone needs a mention as well. Apparently the SC1 base AI is really really dumb, leading to stuff like that.
If I still played SC1 with my buddies I would do this SO MUCH.
MechMantis on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Yeah the SC1 AI is pretty hilarious, you cna make the workers chase you forever as long as you attack prior to them having any units and don't run too far
I had a zerg AI chase a single probe back to my base with about 10 drones, and 8 of them ran straight into my cannons at my base.
Posts
Also if you get to a zerg's natural, and they haven't expanded, personally I'd always prefer to block the expansion and force them to get the zergings out. You can micro around with the probe if you like, but I usually prefer to peek around the base. If you zing into the base and see a pool, you can either cancel the pylon before it finishes warping in, or let it finish just to delay the 2nd hatch a little longer.
Commentates fairly frequently now. He was commentating with incontrol a week or so ago.
I'm way late on this but thanks very very much olorin I will try this out.
edit - olorin the way you describe the problem is -exactly- how it feels. I even said 'others might not notice it' because it feels super subtle.
excellent I'm excited about trying this out soon.
edit2 - of note, we have the same video card
...stream seems to still be quite choppy for the viewer if I disable that setting
Me and my roommate shoving off every Protoss clown cheese there is, felt awesome after this game
I fuck up the fast roach build so much too so just ignore that
Gonna iron out a few Terran build orders (probably a 1/1/1 and 3Rax), and hop on ladder
I never share replays. literally never have but I'm gonna go for it.
30 minutes on the dot, cross positions tvz metalopolis. me vs. 2700 pt diamond zerg.
JP is like I'll call him on skype so everyone believes that was him. Idra says no.
He was clearly goofing around. Broodlord zergling build, but that's funny.
They are playing on the new GSL maps. Idra took three bases really really quick. The other guy was a terran and went pure marine, then added two tanks to knock down Idras spine crawlers. The broodlords came out and got railed by two vikings out of position. Afterwards Idra made a ton of banelings but ran them off creep and not one out of like 15 exploded. He needed like two hits to destroy all the marines but no dice. He left right after.
I forget that map name, but it looks really great for zerg. A tight choke guarding three bases, the fourth isn't that bad to take either. Tons of air space for mutalisks. Also it uses the night time, swamp tileset which I'd never seen before.
The ZvP was easy as hell, I didnt' get pressured at all, by the time he attacked I had 200/200 roach/hydra with 2/2 upgrades and I melted his army with one wave of reinforcements after the first engagement. But it was especially satisfying as he was a 2200 diamond protoss too.
The ZvT was a bit more stressful becuase I got bunker-rushed. It wasn't perfectly executed, he let his marines get out of position and didnt get my natural hatch down, but I think I held it off pretty well, then I went mutas and it was an easy victory from there.
Here's the ZvT replay.
I'd love some critique on anything I could improve about the play.
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=182850
edit: should note I'm in platinum now as Zerg, no longer gold.
A lot of players would tend to turtle, but I think when you add in the aggresion of the korean server you will see some classic Starcraft I style action.
Dou sureba iinda / Dou sureba iino
super excited for these
My biggest weakness right now, though, is my opening: The first 4 minutes of the game is a clusterfuck
I can't get my timing on when I should go for Rax, or Orbital Command, or when to start teching my buildings, etc. Once I get a base up and running, I'm super comfortable, don't get supply blocked, and can even expand to a new base, it's just that first four minutes KILLS me.
I'm so scared for jinro. honestly they're probably my two favorite players.
this was a pretty fun game to watch
The Zerg player wasn't brilliant though. He floated a lot of minerals for a lot of time and was consistently about 20 drones behind where I think he should have been given he didn't make many lings early and you didn't pressure him at all.
I mean at one point he was on 3 bases and 10 workers behind you despite very little fighting going on.
His queens also stocked a lot of energy up meaning he was missing a ton of injects and he didnt even go for the consolation prize which is to macro hatch and use up the energy that way, or use the energy for creep spread.
That said, that was a fuckawesome demonstration of mech play vs Zerg and I enjoyed it a lot.
I can't really comment on your play as I don't know much about terran beyond how to 3rax.
Thats an odd problem to have. There's nothing else going on so theoretically you should be able to focus your attention on it. Is it just that you dont have supply timings down or haven't actually looked up things like that?
As Terran you want to be going 10 depot 12 rax 14 gas, as standard, I believe, and that timing works out nicely with the minerals you'll have at those points.
Besides that you don't really need supply timings to throw down, can just have a rough goal like "I want 3 rax with 2 tech labs and 1 reactor off 1 base and 1 gas" and work towards that as you have minerals to build the raxes while constantly producing marines off your first rax and making scvs.
It's 13 gas, not 14. The rest is correct. You'll be getting your Orbital Command at 15 as soon as the Barracks finishes. This is pretty much the basic opening for every Terran in every match-up, unless you 1-rax expand without gas, or want an extremely early factory (which turns into 12 gas 13 barracks 16 OC, or something along those lines).
I'm a bit late but I want to stress this point. Never try learning gameplay against the computer, it's good for spamming builds and for that I'd recommend yabot. The AI has 2-3 things that it does (usually a quick roach push or the like) and then it falls apart, it will teach you nothing. Also, the Very Hard AI cheats with income and the only way to beat it is do shit that would never work in a real game.
Your other points are good. Especially the approach of learning 1 build in yabot and then taking it to the ladder. When you grow tired of that one build you learn another one. After a while you'll notice which style that suits you and notice the nuances of the different strats that evolves from the initial builds.
ed. shit I forgot, [insert "1TA into diamond within a week" joke here]
Do you wall on Steppes vs Protoss?
Good luck with that.
Oh right, I always mix them up. Very Hard is the one that 5RRs right? Insane just stomps your face in with 50% more units than you at the 50 food mark.
I haven't played the comp since late beta so I'm a bit fussy on the details.
Anyway, don't play the comp and think you're learning the game. That was my point.
thanks dhal!
I went on to lose the next two games against Z but... they were scrap. which certain can be played well as terran but I didn't compensate for the ease of muta harass.
but I appreciate the comments. I noticed when I watched the replay that he didn't play all that well, floating minerals and energy, but I was happy with how I played:D
Berkeley created a Starcraft 1 AI that beat Oriol.
Pretty neat stuff in there.
The Very Hard AI competently executes an aggressive timing push.
You're basically ready for platinum if you can beat it consistently, it's a good training partner in that respect.
This is amazingly cool.
Plenty of spots left!!!
Hey dudes!
For those of you who are part of this proud convict colony, we are rapidly approaching Jan 26th, Australia Day. It being a public holiday, but also being on a Wednesday, I am not really sure that I am going to do anything during the day, so I am going to host a tournament. This is not a Curvy Star tournament, just a normal one, open to all leagues and skills.
It is obviously also open to the non-Australians, (yes, you are defined by us and compared to us).
Time:
Jan 25th at 8pm EST (thats the morning of Aus day (the 26th) for us Aussies, 9am West Australian time, midday for you eastern states types)
SIGNUP PAGE: http://challonge.com/tournament/signup/t32d8wh5yc
All games will be a bo3
Map pool:
1st game - Metalopolis
Subsequent - Loser picks
Hahah.
I like how the solution to their design challenges boiled down to "cheat with inhumanly good muta micro."
Their description of how said micro works under the hood is pretty cool.
This whole read was really interesting, A++ would read again.
Highly recommended.
YES!
Sparky the Wonder Drone needs a mention as well. Apparently the SC1 base AI is really really dumb, leading to stuff like that.
If I still played SC1 with my buddies I would do this SO MUCH.
I had a zerg AI chase a single probe back to my base with about 10 drones, and 8 of them ran straight into my cannons at my base.