Just the fact that Vlad has no hard CC and his only CC, period, is a PBAoE slow which is also only escape ability, period, is a huge knock on him relative to LOTS of other champions
Add to that the health it costs to cast this slow/escape, which is pretty substantial until very late game.
Caenem on
But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
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Vlad can also be countered pretty hard in lane by certain champions
It's always hilarious watching Roku cackle with glee when he gets to face Vladimir as Malzahar
I don't have any real problems against Vlad on Kassadin, and I'm about 50/50 against him on Tristana (depends on whether I'm able to crush him before he hits that perilous level 9 or not).
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
You can openly stack pure damage on him and get rewarded with 5k health. He has a self sustaining farm mechanic that can grab nearly every creep kill from level 1 on. If you can't win a matchup you sure as heck can just sit back and farm.
From then on he is a good iniator, fanatic nuker, usually survives to the end of a teamfight with his escape skills and health and really just needs one of those long team fights to go his way to get enough mejais charges to take over the game.
At that point if their hard carry hasn't grabbed 200 minion kills they must be lacking some of the digits on their hands, or connective pathways in their brain.
Also for some reason his movespeed seems to be friggin obscene. How on earth does he turn into a puddle and accelerate on top of you so easily. Additionally even though they nerfed the tower targeting in puddle mode, when he reforms into human it always skips a shot from dumb AI so its still comparable to pantheon's shield for diving.
This is either clear Hyperbole or you are unfortunately seriously believing this. At 18 he has 1845 health, and if he has 1000 AP and no item that gives flat health then he will be at 3645 health and zero mitigation. Most Vlad's however take some kind of health item somewhere; typically either a Rylai's, Spirit Visage, and/or Warmogs.
At level 1 his only self sustaining skill, transfusion, is on a 12 second cooldown. Far from being able to grab every creep in the wave with.
Okay I admit that vlad has to use his tight auto attack animation to grab some early creeps, only has 4k health with pure AP and has no pure CC.
Fortunately in practice none of those things actually matter and I'd really love to hear some actual points as to how he isn't the premier AP mid game carry, who generally annihilates a random team outright or gives a massive oppurtunity window for a pure AD carry to take over the game.
You can openly stack pure damage on him and get rewarded with 5k health. He has a self sustaining farm mechanic that can grab nearly every creep kill from level 1 on. If you can't win a matchup you sure as heck can just sit back and farm.
From then on he is a good iniator, fanatic nuker, usually survives to the end of a teamfight with his escape skills and health and really just needs one of those long team fights to go his way to get enough mejais charges to take over the game.
At that point if their hard carry hasn't grabbed 200 minion kills they must be lacking some of the digits on their hands, or connective pathways in their brain.
Also for some reason his movespeed seems to be friggin obscene. How on earth does he turn into a puddle and accelerate on top of you so easily. Additionally even though they nerfed the tower targeting in puddle mode, when he reforms into human it always skips a shot from dumb AI so its still comparable to pantheon's shield for diving.
This is either clear Hyperbole or you are unfortunately seriously believing this. At 18 he has 1845 health, and if he has 1000 AP and no item that gives flat health then he will be at 3645 health and zero mitigation. Most Vlad's however take some kind of health item somewhere; typically either a Rylai's, Spirit Visage, and/or Warmogs.
At level 1 his only self sustaining skill, transfusion, is on a 12 second cooldown. Far from being able to grab every creep in the wave with.
Okay I admit that vlad has to use his tight auto attack animation to grab some early creeps, only has 4k health with pure AP and has no pure CC.
Fortunately in practice none of those things actually matter and I'd really love to hear some actual points as to how he isn't the premier AP mid game carry, who generally annihilates a random team outright or gives a massive oppurtunity window for a pure AD carry to take over the game.
He is one of the best AP carries, but there are a shit ton of good ones. Damn it, for all the griping that goes on, LoL is a pretty well-balanced game by MOBA standards.
I mean, Anivia, Annie, Kassadin, Kennen, and Veigar are all really excellent pure AP carries who each bring very different things to a team and are viable in different team comps and situations. I wouldn't feel comfortable singling out any one of those or Vlad as the best, or any one of them as the worst. Edit: Shit I mean Karthus and Malzahar are pretty awesome too, probs missing some more also
And that's without even getting into all of the excellent hybrids and assassin types who can build AP and carry.
OremLK on
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0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Unlike alot of the other AP carries you listed, Vlad can more or less take care of himself in a fight. If you don't have like two escorts for Veigar, he's just going to fucking die (his fairly bad early game notwithstanding).
Veigar is like the hardest AP carry in the game. His early game is fucking awful, but if you can manage to scrape by and survive (a lot easier mid than top) you just keep getting stronger and stronger. He can full-to-zero people in one combo pretty easily. Including tanks, once he gets fed.
He gets free AP for CS and champions kills. Think about that for a second.
That's hugely powerful.
I thought he was weak too until I watched Roku play him and get zoned really hard and "crushed" early game and have a super rough time then still go on to dominate late game and carry his whole team just because Veigar gets that strong over time.
It's like he has better than a Mejia's Soulstealer built-in... and he doesn't lose any stacks if he dies.
OremLK on
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Veigar's solid, you just can't safely do much without your stun and/or escape spells up.
I wouldn't say he is solid, his laning phase is pretty terrible, and until he farms up 8423429 AP and the opponent also farms 497971241 AP his best spell would be his event horizon.
Veigar's solid, you just can't safely do much without your stun and/or escape spells up.
I wouldn't say he is solid, his laning phase is pretty terrible, and until he farms up 8423429 AP and the opponent also farms 497971241 AP his best spell would be his event horizon.
Yeah he has a bit of a skill ceiling; he's still a good mid hero, has an awesome stun, and hits like a truck.
kedinik on
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Veigar's problem is that all of his ranges suck terribly, so it's really hard to position him in a fight where he can do anything without being instantly exploded.
Veigar's problem is that all of his ranges suck terribly, so it's really hard to position him in a fight where he can do anything without being instantly exploded.
Veigar's problem is that all of his ranges suck terribly, so it's really hard to position him in a fight where he can do anything without being instantly exploded.
His Q and R both have 1400 range which is good.
His E (the stun) is obviously the big thing, but remember that the 600 range is to the center of the box; to land his stun properly you have to land the outer edge of it on the desired target, so the range is actually considerably longer than you would think looking at the stats.
The main one where the range is iffy is his W, the AoE spell, at 900 range, but you probably won't be using it too much on targets you don't have stunned anyway
OremLK on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Veigar is like the hardest AP carry in the game. His early game is fucking awful, but if you can manage to scrape by and survive (a lot easier mid than top) you just keep getting stronger and stronger. He can full-to-zero people in one combo pretty easily. Including tanks, once he gets fed.
He gets free AP for CS and champions kills. Think about that for a second.
That's hugely powerful.
I thought he was weak too until I watched Roku play him and get zoned really hard and "crushed" early game and have a super rough time then still go on to dominate late game and carry his whole team just because Veigar gets that strong over time.
It's like he has better than a Mejia's Soulstealer built-in... and he doesn't lose any stacks if he dies.
He gets free AP for CS with one spell. If he wants to sit around and slowly farm down camps with it, great, but other AP carries are just going to nuke the entire wave and not care and move on.
Terrible early game, mediocre ranges, and a somewhat gimmicky stun.
If your team had like Alistar, Shen, and Lux in addition to Veigar, okay you can make him work.
But why not just take Annie?
If I want a squishy AP carry that's going to die in pretty much every fight, I'd just take Karthus instead.
EDIT: Orem you are on drugs, Q and R are range 650.
Because Annie and Karthus simply don't carry as hard as Veigar does
That is the role he fills: He is the AP carry who scales infinitely in the late game. No other AP carry can boast that.
Which is kind of what I was getting at in the first place--each champion brings something different, fills a different role, works in different team comps, and so forth. That's why I don't like people saying "Vlad is the best AP carry olol!" Because guess what, there are definitely situations when I would pick the much-maligned Veigar over Vlad!
OremLK on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
eddizhereScrubber Than A SpongeScrubtown, USARegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I just played my first match against people in a 3v3 and I had a lot of fun. I played as Blitzcrank and I got pretty great at ganking the bejesus out of people. Should I try to purchase Blitzcrank or does he become worthless at higher levels of play?
eddizhere on
League of Legends: Plutoniumwombat
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
how exactly does armor penetration percentage work?
Say Last Whisper has 40% armor penetration. Does that mean:
- it increases my flat armor penetration by 40%
or
- for my attacks, the opponent is considered to have 40% less armor (i.e. they have 60% of their existing armor, not counting any other armor penetration)
or
- for my attacks, the opponent is considered to have 40% of their existing armor
or
- something else entirely
Is armor penetration applied to skills that deal physical damage, or only autoattacks?
let's put it this way, 1400 range is 100 range underneath rank 2 of Living Artillery. i dunno why those cast ranges are wrong for leaguecraft but they are
Oh god a carry needs to farm before he hurts people what a fucking concept
everybody is good with farm
the question really becomes "how do i get there"
veigar is not very dominant early/mid so farming with him is generally a chore
and even with farm veigar is probably worse than most AP carries, except against another high AP target
his uh
targetted not-ult nuke is still nothing to sneeze at early game and if he has a mind to he can just hit your champ with it every time and do a lot to keep you out of lane
Posts
Add to that the health it costs to cast this slow/escape, which is pretty substantial until very late game.
Nemlock for online gaming
It's always hilarious watching Roku cackle with glee when he gets to face Vladimir as Malzahar
I don't have any real problems against Vlad on Kassadin, and I'm about 50/50 against him on Tristana (depends on whether I'm able to crush him before he hits that perilous level 9 or not).
Okay I admit that vlad has to use his tight auto attack animation to grab some early creeps, only has 4k health with pure AP and has no pure CC.
Fortunately in practice none of those things actually matter and I'd really love to hear some actual points as to how he isn't the premier AP mid game carry, who generally annihilates a random team outright or gives a massive oppurtunity window for a pure AD carry to take over the game.
This is stupid, I like vlad, I also like enemy blads.
He is one of the best AP carries, but there are a shit ton of good ones. Damn it, for all the griping that goes on, LoL is a pretty well-balanced game by MOBA standards.
I mean, Anivia, Annie, Kassadin, Kennen, and Veigar are all really excellent pure AP carries who each bring very different things to a team and are viable in different team comps and situations. I wouldn't feel comfortable singling out any one of those or Vlad as the best, or any one of them as the worst. Edit: Shit I mean Karthus and Malzahar are pretty awesome too, probs missing some more also
And that's without even getting into all of the excellent hybrids and assassin types who can build AP and carry.
If I don't have ignite, I make sure to get an Executioner's Calling.
then I realized I agreed with everything OremLK said
except for the part about Veigar
(Veigar sucks)
but anivia is #1 caster in the game
He gets free AP for CS and champions kills. Think about that for a second.
That's hugely powerful.
I thought he was weak too until I watched Roku play him and get zoned really hard and "crushed" early game and have a super rough time then still go on to dominate late game and carry his whole team just because Veigar gets that strong over time.
It's like he has better than a Mejia's Soulstealer built-in... and he doesn't lose any stacks if he dies.
I wouldn't say he is solid, his laning phase is pretty terrible, and until he farms up 8423429 AP and the opponent also farms 497971241 AP his best spell would be his event horizon.
Yeah he has a bit of a skill ceiling; he's still a good mid hero, has an awesome stun, and hits like a truck.
this too (except for, again, his stun!)
also pretentious you need to play with me
and carry me
and medic me
His Q and R both have 1400 range which is good.
His E (the stun) is obviously the big thing, but remember that the 600 range is to the center of the box; to land his stun properly you have to land the outer edge of it on the desired target, so the range is actually considerably longer than you would think looking at the stats.
The main one where the range is iffy is his W, the AoE spell, at 900 range, but you probably won't be using it too much on targets you don't have stunned anyway
Terrible early game, mediocre ranges, and a somewhat gimmicky stun.
If your team had like Alistar, Shen, and Lux in addition to Veigar, okay you can make him work.
But why not just take Annie?
If I want a squishy AP carry that's going to die in pretty much every fight, I'd just take Karthus instead.
EDIT: Orem you are on drugs, Q and R are range 650.
That is the role he fills: He is the AP carry who scales infinitely in the late game. No other AP carry can boast that.
Which is kind of what I was getting at in the first place--each champion brings something different, fills a different role, works in different team comps, and so forth. That's why I don't like people saying "Vlad is the best AP carry olol!" Because guess what, there are definitely situations when I would pick the much-maligned Veigar over Vlad!
You are retarded
Zen sucks too
http://leaguecraft.com/spell/Baleful+Strike
http://leaguecraft.com/spell/Primordial+Burst
Going by this
want to play a caster: everyone picks caste4rs and ranged carries
want to play a beefy melee dps: everyone picks beefy melee dps
want to jungle: 3 ppl pick a jungle
the game doesn't want me to be happy.
I'm dead serious."
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Veigar
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
They've got to be wrong; 1400 is pretty damn long range.
how exactly does armor penetration percentage work?
Say Last Whisper has 40% armor penetration. Does that mean:
- it increases my flat armor penetration by 40%
or
- for my attacks, the opponent is considered to have 40% less armor (i.e. they have 60% of their existing armor, not counting any other armor penetration)
or
- for my attacks, the opponent is considered to have 40% of their existing armor
or
- something else entirely
Is armor penetration applied to skills that deal physical damage, or only autoattacks?
It felt pretty damn long when I played as Veigar, certainly longer than 650, could be wrong though
edit: Me and alvarian know the score.
everybody is good with farm
the question really becomes "how do i get there"
veigar is not very dominant early/mid so farming with him is generally a chore
and even with farm veigar is probably worse than most AP carries, except against another high AP target
edit: you my boy bagel
Pick a tank , you will be alone 90% of the time.
Is it really? Hnuh. I guess my sense of the scale of LoL range numbers must be pretty skewed, I always imagined it as being a lot shorter than that.
Numberrrrss
There was only one answer: Teemo
In normal queue this actually applies to the entire duration of the game.
Initiate fights and watch as your team suddenly decides that farming bot is much more important.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
his uh
targetted not-ult nuke is still nothing to sneeze at early game and if he has a mind to he can just hit your champ with it every time and do a lot to keep you out of lane
also
to different extents sorry m8