Options

[WoW] Warriors, Heroically Leaping into your Hearts

13567

Posts

  • Options
    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Demo, TC, Sunder and Rend should all be kept up 100% of the time unless you are having to dump all your rage in to SS/Rev/HS because your DPS is being overzealous. Demo and TC lower the incoming physical damage on you by a non-negligible amount.

    Obviously be careful with TC, don't want to go around breaking CC willy nilly (and be real careful if you have Blood and Thunder. I've hilariously done the Rend + TC combo and accidentally hit CC'ed targets...it's hard to CC things with Rend on them).

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Options
    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    What gems are you tanks using? I'm currently using Solid Ocean Sapphire (+60 stam) in blues, Fractured Amberjewel (+40 mastery) in yellows and either Defender's Demonseye (+20 parry, +30 stam) or Fine Ember Topaz (+20 parry, +20 mastery) in reds.

    I'm at 145.1k health unbuffed at this point, and I'm wondering if I should drop the Demnseye's for Ember Topaz's and get more mastery. I'd lose HP, but I'd still be near 168k fully buffed.

    e: Here is my armory if you want to see how I have it setup: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/whisperwind/tegan/advanced

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Options
    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I go with Fines, myself. Parry and Mastery are sexy as hell.

    Seattle Thread on
    kofz2amsvqm3.png
  • Options
    NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I haven't seen anyone go into it here, so I'm going to take a moment to explain just how awesome Mastery is for prot warriors.

    Each point of mastery (179 mastery rating, IIRC) grants a protection warrior 1.5% chance to block, and 1.5% chance to critical block. A regular block prevents 30% of the damage the warrior takes, while a critical block prevents 60% of the damage. The important thing to understand is how your chance to critically block is calculated. Your chance to critical block is only calculated on a successful block.

    This is important for a few reasons...

    First, this means that a point of mastery doesn't give the warrior 3% chance to their block overall, but 1.5% chance to block an attack, and when they block, 1.5% chance for that block to be a critical block. So, with a 10% chance to block, and a 10% chance to critically block, this works out to be a 1% chance to critically block an attack (as 1% is 10% of 10%).

    Second, this means that we cannot push block off of our combat table (if you don't know what I mean by combat table, I'll explain in the spoiler below). Our critical block is only calculated if we successfully block. Instead of thinking of block (non critical) getting pushed off the table, think of your block/crit block as becoming a compressed section on the table.
    The combat table is how the game calculates whether you're missed, you parry the attack, you dodge it, you block it, you're hit, or if you're critted... these are ordered by priority of highest to least, with the exception of crits.

    Critical hits can only be removed from the table by talenting into it as a tank (or in the past, having enough defense). This is important because a critical attack can land on a player even if they manage to become "unhittable". If, for example, the combined sum of your dodge, block, and parry are all equal to or greater than 100% (or 102.4 for a raid boss), the enemy can still crit you even if they won't hit you. You generally won't have an issue with crits, unless you're planning to attempt tanking something without being tank specced.

    As for the rest.. The higher the priority, the earlier it is on the table. This means that if you're able to, somehow, get 100% parry, you'll push dodge and block off the table. Every attack will either miss you, or be parried, and both dodge and block rating are obsolete. The significance to this is that if you're a raid tank, and you're trying to become "unhittable", so that all melee attacks will either miss, be parried, dodged, or blocked, then any block that puts your combined stats over 102.4 is effectively wasted.

    With paladins, this is true because they can't critically block. But with warriors, the additional mastery increases your critical block chance.

    Knowing this, if the stuff before the spoiler was confusing, it should make more sense now.

    Third, since your mastery increases both your block chance and critical block chance, each by the same amount, your critical block chance actually increases exponentially as you gain more mastery. For example, in increments of 6.66 points of mastery:

    At 10% block and critical block, you have a 1% chance to block a melee attack.
    20%, 4% (critical block increased by 3%)
    30%, 9% (critical block increased by 5%)
    40%, 16% (critical block increased by 7%)

    As you can see above, becoming unhittable is just the beginning. More mastery gives us more chance to critically block, and the value of the mastery increases as our critical block increases. It's also important to note, however, that more avoidance will decrease the value of mastery once the player is unhittable... due to the "compression" of the block section on our combat table. The overall damage we're receiving will still be going down though, due to the higher avoidance.

    Finally (just as a cherry on top of the already delicious mastery cake we've got), our hold the line increases our critical block chance by 10% (again, calculated as above) when we parry an attack. And our shield block ability increases our critical block chance for whatever value of the ability is going beyond the unhittable mark (so 15% more critical block if we're at 92.4% unhittable).

    Nerdtendo on
    IHZR47b.png
  • Options
    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm at 99.92% avoidance with Shield Block up. I need to replace this damn quest-green gun, but good luck finding a ranges weapon with strength on it.

    Seattle Thread on
    kofz2amsvqm3.png
  • Options
    MetacortexMetacortex The Prettiest Zombie Coeur d'CoeursRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well, they finally put in the tank gun off of Asaad with the patch, so there's that.

    I just ended buying the 359 BoE gun, but that decision was aided by the fact that I was able to sell a BoE str dps ring I came across in TB.

    Metacortex on
    4FNao2T.png
  • Options
    NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The benefit you gain from the ranged weapons is pretty minimal compared to other equipment slots. I wouldn't worry too much about upgrading.

    That said, the VP heroic gun is a nice choice. I'd only bother with the BoE if it drops for me... otherwise I'm satisfied with the VP blue.

    Nerdtendo on
    IHZR47b.png
  • Options
    MetacortexMetacortex The Prettiest Zombie Coeur d'CoeursRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The other reason I bought the epic is that it is also good for dpsing.

    Metacortex on
    4FNao2T.png
  • Options
    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I've been rocking heroics pretty hard lately. Finally got around to making my Engineering goggles last night. Got tired of farming the mats, so I just spent my way to cap.

    "http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/shadow council/littleshield/advanced"

    I've got some work to do with gear... might have to look into getting some crafted. Been sticking with Mastery and STA for the most part. I tend to favor STA with gems unless I get the slot bonus with some Mastery.

    I know I need a new trinket, though... haven't found anything yet

    GPIA7R on
  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    I've been rocking heroics pretty hard lately. Finally got around to making my Engineering goggles last night. Got tired of farming the mats, so I just spent my way to cap.

    "http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/shadow council/littleshield/advanced"

    I've got some work to do with gear... might have to look into getting some crafted. Been sticking with Mastery and STA for the most part. I tend to favor STA with gems unless I get the slot bonus with some Mastery.

    I know I need a new trinket, though... haven't found anything yet

    Heroic Stonecore and Heroic Grim Batol are the instances you want to run. Having the Alchemy trinket helps on this as it is straight sta mastery but it most likely isnt an option for you. The trinket off of the last boss in Stonecore and the trinket off of the second boss in Grim batol would be the ones I would shoot for. Laden Despair and Throngus Finger

    Jubal77 on
  • Options
    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Also the Porcelain Crab off of the Earthwarder in Throne of the Tides.

    Seattle Thread on
    kofz2amsvqm3.png
  • Options
    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yeah I just got the Alchy trinket on my Druid tank last night, PRIOR to level 85, love it.

    I guess a Heroic version of Throngus wouldn't hurt

    GPIA7R on
  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Yeah I just got the Alchy trinket on my Druid tank last night, PRIOR to level 85, love it.

    I guess a Heroic version of Throngus wouldn't hurt

    It is what I use. The finger and the alchy trinket. Sexy sexy parry.

    Jubal77 on
  • Options
    BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Pre-Raid trinkets you should get for Tanking; doesn't include profession Trinkets.

    1) Mirror of Broken Images - 125 Tol Barad Commendations
    2a) Throngus' Finger(Heroic) - Forgemaster Throngus in Grim Batol
    2b) Porcelain Crab(Heroic) - Optional Boss Mindbender(?) in Throne of Tides
    3) Leaden Despair

    Turns out Mirror of Broken Images is an awesome Trinket, I use it on every fight. Throngus' Finger and Procelain Crab are theory crafted to be the best Pre-Raid dropped trinkets. Leaden Despair is not a great Trinket and should only be used if you find yourself dieing really quickly (Double attack tank for Chimaeron might like this trinket).

    The Trinkets I use most are Earthen Guardian and Mirror of Broken Images. I switch to Throngus and Crab when tanking Chimaeron.

    Also, this is why Warrior Tanks are the Best
    tankdps-1.jpg

    /flex

    Buddies on
  • Options
    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Blood and Thunder is goddamn ridiculous. I use it with my Arms spec, too.

    Seattle Thread on
    kofz2amsvqm3.png
  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    What fight is that Ash?

    Jubal77 on
  • Options
    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    First guess would be Halfus with whelps

    Seattle Thread on
    kofz2amsvqm3.png
  • Options
    BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Makershot wrote: »
    First guess would be Halfus with whelps

    That fight was on Trash before Atramedes, the Dwarf Councils that give eachother their powers when they die*. Halfus with Whelps I do 30k+ also, but so does everyone else in the group.


    *The secret to that rediculous damage on that pull is killing the Dwarf with "Burden of the Crown" first. Once he dies, they all get the buff and continuously put it on you, making you deal a rediculous amount of damage(and take more damage maybe? dunno they don't hit hard enough to care if it does).

    Buddies on
  • Options
    DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Buddies wrote: »
    Makershot wrote: »
    First guess would be Halfus with whelps

    That fight was on Trash before Atramedes, the Dwarf Councils that give eachother their powers when they die*. Halfus with Whelps I do 30k+ also, but so does everyone else in the group.


    *The secret to that rediculous damage on that pull is killing the Dwarf with "Burden of the Crown" first. Once he dies, they all get the buff and continuously put it on you, making you deal a rediculous amount of damage(and take more damage maybe? dunno they don't hit hard enough to care if it does).

    I <3 those dwarves. Last time we fight them they decided I would be the constant target for their buff/debuff. Raid leader asked me to 'Stop making the DPS look bad, kkthanx'

    edit: The buff makes you take damage for the damage you put out. Which, if you are a warrior tank, just means you're getting healed anyway and infinite rage.

    Decomposey on
    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • Options
    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    When calculating total avoidance, are people taking in to account the base miss rate of a level 88 boss (2.6%), or are they just adding P + D + B and calling it a day? Seems to me the correct formula would be P + D + B + 2.6 = TA, but I'm not sure.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Options
    khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Most people add 5% and them compare it to 102.4%, but yes assuming you want to calculate if you're unhittable then you need to add in the miss rate.

    khain on
  • Options
    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    5% being the miss rate of a regular level 80. 5 - 2.6 = 2.4, so to be unhittable by a level 88 boss, you need P + D + B + 5.0 to equal 102.4%, or P + D + B + 2.6 to equal 100%. Okay, that makes sense to me now.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Options
    BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    How about that Raid Last Stand, huh? Pretty sweet.

    Buddies on
  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Buddies wrote: »
    How about that Raid Last Stand, huh? Pretty sweet.

    Hell yeah. Was just smiling at that. Also Arms will get alot of love too.

    Jubal77 on
  • Options
    DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    My Last Stand has a shout macro attached to it to get my healers attention, so I will add a shout to this one as well:

    "If you scrubs die I'll KILL YOU!"

    Decomposey on
    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • Options
    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Wait, what? Raid Last Stand?

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Wait, what? Raid Last Stand?

    Check the 4.1 notes Gnome. Arms gets love plus other goodies for the War class. We get a CD based shout that increases everyones health by 20%. Some of the other goodies are increased MS and Slam dmg (from arms talent). Interupts are not tied to hit rating. Intercept will be on a 1.5 sec CD.... good stuff.

    Jubal77 on
  • Options
    CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Wait, what? Raid Last Stand?

    Check the 4.1 notes Gnome. Arms gets love plus other goodies for the War class. We get a CD based shout that increases everyones health by 20%. Some of the other goodies are increased MS and Slam dmg (from arms talent). Interupts are not tied to hit rating. Intercept will be on a 1.5 sec CD.... good stuff.

    there is no possible way this is true

    CasedOut on
    452773-1.png
  • Options
    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Wait, what? Raid Last Stand?

    Check the 4.1 notes Gnome. Arms gets love plus other goodies for the War class. We get a CD based shout that increases everyones health by 20%. Some of the other goodies are increased MS and Slam dmg (from arms talent). Interupts are not tied to hit rating. Intercept will be on a 1.5 sec CD.... good stuff.

    there is no possible way this is true

    It's not. The stun on Intercept was reduced from 3 seconds to 1.5, Jubal just misread. It's actually a nerf.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Wait, what? Raid Last Stand?

    Check the 4.1 notes Gnome. Arms gets love plus other goodies for the War class. We get a CD based shout that increases everyones health by 20%. Some of the other goodies are increased MS and Slam dmg (from arms talent). Interupts are not tied to hit rating. Intercept will be on a 1.5 sec CD.... good stuff.

    there is no possible way this is true

    It's not. The stun on Intercept was reduced from 3 seconds to 1.5, Jubal just misread. It's actually a nerf.

    My bad. :) But the charges are off the diminshing returns again.

    Jubal77 on
  • Options
    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It's actually just 1%. The GCD reduction is on Hamstring.

    Seattle Thread on
    kofz2amsvqm3.png
  • Options
    MetacortexMetacortex The Prettiest Zombie Coeur d'CoeursRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Hopefully the Arms buffs do more than just make up for the Colossus Smash nerf. I really want Arms to be on par with other dps specs because I just do not like Fury. Don't know if if it's the reliance on enrages and having to manage that or the fact that you're hitting the same attack every other gcd, but it just rubs me the wrong way.

    But I suppose it's not a huge deal as I'm a tank before that other stuff anyway.

    Metacortex on
    4FNao2T.png
  • Options
    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Same, though my main issue with Fury is the rage starvation. I hear that SMF is better about that, but I'm not going to farm up some 1Hers just to test it out.

    Besides, with Arms you've got versatility--a stun, a snare, shattering throw (without stance-dancing), better AoE... it's more to my playstyle.

    Seattle Thread on
    kofz2amsvqm3.png
  • Options
    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It only took until, what, 4.0 to give Arms a reasonable interrupt?

    forty on
  • Options
    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    That's one nice thing about having the Soul Blade as my tanking weapon, I have a built in SMF weapon with me at all times for when I need to DPS. I use the TB rep axe as my off-hand.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Options
    TurksonTurkson Near the mountains of ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Colossus Smash now ignores 70% of an opponent's armor, down from 100%.

    I'm happy that Arms is getting buffs, but this might just counter them all. On the other hand, it might shut up some of pvp kiddies whining about how it's "Overpowered."

    Turkson on
    oh h*ck
  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Turkson wrote: »
    Colossus Smash now ignores 70% of an opponent's armor, down from 100%.

    I'm happy that Arms is getting buffs, but this might just counter them all. On the other hand, it might shut up some of pvp kiddies whining about how it's "Overpowered."

    Well its only up 18 seconds per minute on pve fights? It shouldnt be too much of a nerf as the increase of damage for the other 2/3rds of the fight should easily counteract that.

    Jubal77 on
  • Options
    TurksonTurkson Near the mountains of ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It's up a bit more than that with the Sudden Death talent, but I think you're right after thinking it over some more. A lot of fights require movement so setting up the perfect rotation is impossible.

    Turkson on
    oh h*ck
  • Options
    TTODewbackTTODewback Puts the drawl in ya'll I think I'm in HellRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I haven't played a warrior since Vanilla, so I copied a premade over on the PTR.
    Holy shit you guys have a lot of buttons. I rolled Prot spec and I think I had 3 action bars worth of usable shit.
    I swear I had one just filled with cooldowns, most of which I couldnt remember what did what.

    TTODewback on
    Bless your heart.
  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    TTODewback wrote: »
    I haven't played a warrior since Vanilla, so I copied a premade over on the PTR.
    Holy shit you guys have a lot of buttons. I rolled Prot spec and I think I had 3 action bars worth of usable shit.
    I swear I had one just filled with cooldowns, most of which I couldnt remember what did what.

    I wouldnt trade tanky warrior for any of the other ones... unless they moved DK tanking to frost and made it what it was. I think i would go to sleep tanking as pali.

    Jubal77 on
This discussion has been closed.