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[WoW] Warriors, Heroically Leaping into your Hearts

12467

Posts

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So, Shield Bash is getting removed and rolled in to Pummel, and Shield Block will now allow you to block magic damage while it's up.

    Some interesting changes coming to Prot warriors in 4.1.

    e: Oh, and the cool down on Spell Reflect is being raised, but the Shield Block change somewhat compensates for that. I think SR's CD is a PvP change, but the SB change is to keep magic mitigation for prot warriors consistent, with the increases SR CD.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What class doesn't have a lot of buttons anymore?

    Edit: Warriors finally no longer having two redundant, linked interrupts is a good change. Shield Block magic reduction change will be really nice for raid boss tanks.

    forty on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Some people are whining that Pummel doesn't have the daze effect of Shield Bash, and that because Pummel isn't on the Gag Order telent that we are losing a silence.

    Two things: We still have heroic throw, which Gag Order does still effect, so our silence and interrupt are now different buttons...big whoop.

    Second, who in the hell cares about a daze effect in PvE on Shield Bash? Nothing runs near death anymore, and I can't think of a single encounter where having daze on Shield Bash makes or breaks anything. In fact, I didn't even know Shield Bash HAD a daze effect, it's so inconsequential in Cata.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Meanwhile, Pummel is on a 10-second cooldown instead of 12 seconds, so there's a benefit to the change.

    People need to put on their big girl panties and stop crying about the change. It was a long time coming and just makes sense since there's no particular reason to have different interrupts for different stances. That Shield Bash was a silence for protection warriors was really too much anyway.

    forty on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Right, and it's not like we're losing silence, we still have Heroic Throw + Gag Order as a protection silence. More useful anyway, generally when I need to silence a mob it's to pull it to me, and a ranged silence is much more handy. I'd rather have my interrupt kept free, because there are several encounters that require quite a bit of interrupting.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • TurksonTurkson Near the mountains of ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh lord, I haven't played in two months, and it might be even longer til I can again. Reading the 4.0.6 and 4.1 patch notes, it's like they completely redoing Arms and Fury. Again.

    Turkson on
    oh h*ck
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Err, redoing? Not sure how. They're just shifting around where the damage comes from somewhat to reduce the insane burst damage.

    Other than that, what? Arms is getting its rotation simplified a bit with Rend refreshing automatically, and Fury gets to use Whirlwind more often in AoE situations? What am I missing here?

    forty on
  • shergakshergak Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    forty wrote: »
    Err, redoing? Not sure how. They're just shifting around where the damage comes from somewhat to reduce the insane burst damage.

    Other than that, what? Arms is getting its rotation simplified a bit with Rend refreshing automatically, and Fury gets to use Whirlwind more often in AoE situations? What am I missing here?

    Well Flurry's been buffed to provide 50% haste rather than 25%.
    Also, just as a side note, pummel has a 4 second school silencing effect.

    shergak on
    ...
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    forty wrote: »
    Err, redoing? Not sure how. They're just shifting around where the damage comes from somewhat to reduce the insane burst damage.

    Other than that, what? Arms is getting its rotation simplified a bit with Rend refreshing automatically, and Fury gets to use Whirlwind more often in AoE situations? What am I missing here?

    Halla-fuggin-yeah! I know it was only one dot to watch but refreshing rend while being a melee dps was MUCH harder than being afflict on my lock and having 4 times the dots to watch.

    Jubal77 on
  • TurksonTurkson Near the mountains of ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    How is it going to affect the timing of Overpower? Screw it, think I'll just head over to EJ and read up on it.

    Turkson on
    oh h*ck
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I havent even looked. What is the mechanism that refreshes it?

    Jubal77 on
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    I havent even looked. What is the mechanism that refreshes it?

    when rend deals damage it allows you to use Overpower. Mortal Strike resets the timer on Rend (does not affect when the next tick will happen, it's just the same as rending again).

    All it changes is that you only need to Rend once in a fight, unless you are off the boss for more than 15 seconds.

    Buddies on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So with MS Refreshing it it would be on all the time. That is nice. But that does mean you might get less overall Overkills as well which I guess is what turkson was gonna check out.

    Jubal77 on
  • TurksonTurkson Near the mountains of ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Right. You had to time your rend refreshes to get the maximum number of Overpower's off. If you were off on your timing even by a little it could end up delaying your next OP by 2-3 seconds.

    But this all might be completely irrelevant.

    Turkson on
    oh h*ck
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Isn't the ICD on TfB such that every other rend tick will proc it?
    shergak wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Err, redoing? Not sure how. They're just shifting around where the damage comes from somewhat to reduce the insane burst damage.

    Other than that, what? Arms is getting its rotation simplified a bit with Rend refreshing automatically, and Fury gets to use Whirlwind more often in AoE situations? What am I missing here?

    Well Flurry's been buffed to provide 50% haste rather than 25%.
    forty wrote:
    They're just shifting around where the damage comes from somewhat to reduce the insane burst damage.
    And Flurry is entirely passive. It's not going to change how you play. All the changes will affect is stat priorities somewhat, but not how the class plays.

    forty on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    One more round of TB dailies for my Mirror of Broken Images.

    Screw you Blizzard for making a BiS Prot Warrior trinket require a rep grind that has no tabard. Screw you indeed.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So looking at my armory (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/whisperwind/tegan/advanced), I'm not really sure there is much more I can do outside of raids for gear. Ignore the Tia's Grace in my trinket slot, that will be a Mirror of Broken Images in about an hour. The only heroic piece I have left to get is the Thundercall from VP, but that's one of those "if I get it great, if I don't oh well it won't break my gear setup" pieces. This is specially true since Blizzard has promised a decent tanking ranged in the new heroics in 4.1, so there will be a 353 epic available for that slot sooner than later.

    Everything else I can upgrade at this point is Valor Points and raid drops, I'm pretty sure.

    e: Also ignore the chest piece. I could make myself the hardened elementium hauberk, but I am less than 300 VP from the tier chest, so I'm holding off.

    e: Speaking of the Mirror, I am trying to decide how best to use it. My first thought is to macro it to Last Stand and Shield Wall, since it's on such a short timer. My other thought is that I should use it as a completely separate CD, like my own little Anti-Magic Shell.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    So looking at my armory (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/whisperwind/tegan/advanced), I'm not really sure there is much more I can do outside of raids for gear. Ignore the Tia's Grace in my trinket slot, that will be a Mirror of Broken Images in about an hour. The only heroic piece I have left to get is the Thundercall from VP, but that's one of those "if I get it great, if I don't oh well it won't break my gear setup" pieces. This is specially true since Blizzard has promised a decent tanking ranged in the new heroics in 4.1, so there will be a 353 epic available for that slot sooner than later.

    Everything else I can upgrade at this point is Valor Points and raid drops, I'm pretty sure.

    e: Also ignore the chest piece. I could make myself the hardened elementium hauberk, but I am less than 300 VP from the tier chest, so I'm holding off.

    e: Speaking of the Mirror, I am trying to decide how best to use it. My first thought is to macro it to Last Stand and Shield Wall, since it's on such a short timer. My other thought is that I should use it as a completely separate CD, like my own little Anti-Magic Shell.

    It gets it's own hot key. You don't want to have to use Shield Wall for an OH SHIT moment 20 seconds before you are supposed to use the trinket amd not be able to because it already activated with the shield wall. Mine is set to "Shift-G"

    Buddies on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    There, finally done with TB dailies. Maybe someday when the place doesn't make me want to slit my wrists, I'll go back and grind up the 200 marks for the mount.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Very excited about the arms changes. More Slams that are more powerful is always a good change. Though our burst damage is going to drop a bit from the colusses smash change. No more colussus smash, recklessness other CDs and execute spamming.

    Smaug6 on
    steam_sig.png
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I feel they need to drop our burst if I ever want to dps in raids. I am happy that I am a tanky spec but it would be fun to not have to swap out because maintained warrior dps sucks so much balls. Or I just need to practice it more... but from what I have see on the log sites we are behind.

    Jubal77 on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Fury is a high tier melee spec now, so unless you're being swapped out for ranged DPS, you can't do much better.

    Edit: On the other hand, Fury does have pretty big threat issues early on in a fight.

    forty on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh tell me about it I have pulled off the tank a couple times in my patchwork dps gear and I couldnt imagine what it would be like tiered out. I must be mismanaging my rotation but the thing is the rotation is about as easy as they come so I dunno. I will continue tanking.

    BTW they usually bring in ranged for me as most fights are much more ranged friendly.

    Edit: just checked State of dps and it has fury behind assass rogues, unholy dk, and ret palis on adjusted totals.... 0_o

    Jubal77 on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Edit: just checked State of dps and it has fury behind assass rogues, unholy dk, and ret palis on adjusted totals.... 0_o
    By how much? A couple hundred?

    forty on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    forty wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Edit: just checked State of dps and it has fury behind assass rogues, unholy dk, and ret palis on adjusted totals.... 0_o
    By how much? A couple hundred?

    Just checked it put Fury in the 89% percentile with the highest of melee dps at 92%. Not tons of differnce. I am mostly venting from my personal experience. I can burst over 20k but I end up at ~12-14k overall. I am still mostly in 346 gear so like I said that is probably most of the issue. Fury is just spamming your head on two buttons really.

    Jubal77 on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah, that's my idea of high tier as far as melee goes.

    Anyway, I guess they were so busy with the rage overhaul/inner rage implementation that they forgot to make Fury not super simple to play. Whoops!

    forty on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Its definatly not as bad as I thought it was.

    Jubal77 on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Eh, I don't find Fury to be just two buttons. If you're properly timing things with Colossus Smash and such, it requires some thought. It's not a super hard rotation, but it's not a rotation based spec, it's a priority based spec, so it requires more attention span than a real tight rotation spec. Less button presses, but more paying attention.

    I find pure rotation specs to be quite ab it more mindless to play, personally.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What are these rotation specs? I'm pretty sure everything is a priority system anymore.

    forty on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    DK is still very much a rotation spec, at least Unholy. The only "priority" you worry about is super-pet.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh I know but I differ between filler buttons and primary dps buttons. RB and BT are your primary button slams and then you have your fillers and procs and major CDs. I know I over simplified the rotation.

    Jubal77 on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    DK is still very much a rotation spec, at least Unholy. The only "priority" you worry about is super-pet.
    Eh? Unholy is definitely a priority system. Things get mixed up quite a bit depending on RC and SD procs.

    See EJ

    forty on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    forty wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    DK is still very much a rotation spec, at least Unholy. The only "priority" you worry about is super-pet.
    Eh? Unholy is definitely a priority system. Things get mixed up quite a bit depending on RC and SD procs.

    See EJ

    They list it as a priority system, but in practice, having done Unholy DPS quite a bit this expansion, it's very rotationy. Dark Transformation and SD are the only procs you really have to prioritize, and those are a bit strange.

    He even says it at the start "this looks more complex than it is", and he's right...because it's really a rotation. You maximize DT uptime, and you dump DC on SD procs, but you'll actually find that SD loves to proc right around the time you would want to RP dump anyway. Not always, but I'd say 80% of the time.

    I mean, you're right in a sense, the stupidly rigid rotations of Wrath are gone, but certain specs (unholy among them), are actually pretty rotationy. Mostly because of the predictably of Death Runes.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    He even says it at the start "this looks more complex than it is", and he's right...because it's really a rotation.
    No? He says that because it's not as confusing to play as you might think from reading the text diagram, but it's definitely not "really a rotation."
    GnomeTank wrote:
    You maximize DT uptime, and you dump DC on SD procs, but you'll actually find that SD loves to proc right around the time you would want to RP dump anyway. Not always, but I'd say 80% of the time.
    O_o

    SD has no preference. It has the same chance of procing on any given swing.

    forty on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    forty wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    He even says it at the start "this looks more complex than it is", and he's right...because it's really a rotation.
    No? He says that because it's not as confusing to play as you might think from reading the text diagram, but it's definitely not "really a rotation."
    GnomeTank wrote:
    You maximize DT uptime, and you dump DC on SD procs, but you'll actually find that SD loves to proc right around the time you would want to RP dump anyway. Not always, but I'd say 80% of the time.
    O_o

    SD has no preference. It has the same chance of procing on any given swing.

    No kidding? That doesn't mean it's not streaky, and that doesn't mean that you will find that a lot of time it's up right when you want to RP dump.

    Seriously, go play Unholy sometime. Just because EJ lists it as a priority system doesn't mean it doesn't have a rotation feel. It's not as rigid as Wrath, but it's most certainly still has a rotation feel to it, because of how predictable death runes are. It's no where near as priority based as Fury, which has almost no predictable rotation at all aside from "Hey, I always know HS and BT will be up".

    You can always predict what runes will be up, when they will be up, and how fast they will recover. This absolutely creates a rotation feel to the play, aside from the obvious SD and DT procs. Even when using Runic Empowerment, you can still predict that your runes will just recover 50% faster (provided you have Runic Corruption). In some ways, the only real unpredictable part of the Unholy play style is SD, because you know when you're going to drop your fifth DC to open up DT.

    My point is still the same. I can play Unholy almost without ever looking at my bars, just by ticking the rune recovery down in my head, and knowing whether I'm on a Death Rune cycle or not. All I really have to watch for is SD procs. I cannot do this with Fury, which requires me to watch my bars for Slam and RB, as well as Colossus Smash so that I can setup my "burst shot" with CS, Inner Rage, RB, et al.

    e: As a side note, "looking at my bars" here is relative. I actually have a mod that puts little icons around my character to indicate when certain things proc. I don't actually have to sit and stare at my bars, I was being figurative.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Dpsing as Arms is very difficult. Timing slam usage with MS is a huge. Also considering you are working overpower in with occasional heroic strikes, watching your rend timer and the suddenly having CS pop up from its 20 sec CD. It can be incredibly stressful especially when you are watching for raid damage and being forced to move around.

    When it goes well it feels incredible, but when you do 2k dps less than normal, you feel like a turkey.

    Smaug6 on
    steam_sig.png
  • Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Good news, everyone!
    Colossus Smash now ignores 50% of a hostile player's armor (PvP), but continues to ignore 100% of a non-player character's armor (PvE).

    From the PTR notes. It's about time they implemented different effects for PC and NPC combat.

    Seattle Thread on
    kofz2amsvqm3.png
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So I noticed something the past couple weeks. I finally got my sybiotic worm and have been using it on the appropriate fights but there is a problem. I think I am reaching the "coefficient" in terms of HP pool and Rage gen. I am finding myself to be rage starved and my tps went down accordingly.

    I would say that it was a bad night for me but on if I swap back to my heroic finger I have no issues. I heard through the grapevine that unbuffed you start to notice it at ~150k unbuffed hp but you really start to notice it at ~160k unbuffed hp. Its to the point people are asking me if something is wrong. Heh.

    Jubal77 on
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    So I noticed something the past couple weeks. I finally got my sybiotic worm and have been using it on the appropriate fights but there is a problem. I think I am reaching the "coefficient" in terms of HP pool and Rage gen. I am finding myself to be rage starved and my tps went down accordingly.

    I would say that it was a bad night for me but on if I swap back to my heroic finger I have no issues. I heard through the grapevine that unbuffed you start to notice it at ~150k unbuffed hp but you really start to notice it at ~160k unbuffed hp. Its to the point people are asking me if something is wrong. Heh.

    Maybe I am ignorant on how Rage generation works for Tanks, but my HP is decently high and the only time I REALLY notice threat being an issue is in Heroic Dungeons. I attributed that to just being overgeared as I am sometimes rage starved in heroics, especially when I get a string of dodge/parries right at the beginning of a pull when people are blowing their loads to stay on top of recount.

    In Raids it's only a problem at the very beginning of some fights where I have to pull the boss to a certain position and the DPS have the opportunity to destroy him before I can build Threat. Which is Cho'gall and Atramedes for me, and it's typically the Arcane Mage that pulls threat as she is mashing her 2 button for 10 straight casts and getting a string of crits spiking up over 25k DPS for a a few seconds.

    Learn me about this coefficient.

    Buddies on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Buddies wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    So I noticed something the past couple weeks. I finally got my sybiotic worm and have been using it on the appropriate fights but there is a problem. I think I am reaching the "coefficient" in terms of HP pool and Rage gen. I am finding myself to be rage starved and my tps went down accordingly.

    I would say that it was a bad night for me but on if I swap back to my heroic finger I have no issues. I heard through the grapevine that unbuffed you start to notice it at ~150k unbuffed hp but you really start to notice it at ~160k unbuffed hp. Its to the point people are asking me if something is wrong. Heh.

    Maybe I am ignorant on how Rage generation works for Tanks, but my HP is decently high and the only time I REALLY notice threat being an issue is in Heroic Dungeons. I attributed that to just being overgeared as I am sometimes rage starved in heroics, especially when I get a string of dodge/parries right at the beginning of a pull when people are blowing their loads to stay on top of recount.

    In Raids it's only a problem at the very beginning of some fights where I have to pull the boss to a certain position and the DPS have the opportunity to destroy him before I can build Threat. Which is Cho'gall and Atramedes for me, and it's typically the Arcane Mage that pulls threat as she is mashing her 2 button for 10 straight casts and getting a string of crits spiking up over 25k DPS for a a few seconds.

    Learn me about this coefficient.

    Well according to what I read rage from getting hit is tied to your health pool. So the more hp you have the less % of HP you take from mobs meaning in smaller amount of rage generated. This all stems from people being able to blow shit up from initial pull. Just an FYI I am 2 slots from 359ilvl.

    On fights like you mentioned while repositioning I am usually able to maintain agro as well as have people blow thier wad. It may also be just be as dps is scaling up with new gear we will have to change and have have dps keep it in their pants. But since people have become accustomed to this I just get whining from dps that they have to scale back on some of the boss fights now :)

    Jubal77 on
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