Trolls are so-so, not great but not completely awful. But compare the Troll models to Forest (ZA) or Ice Trolls (Zul'Drak) and it's night & day.
Imagine the shit they could do though with face paint, tusk design, piercings, etc.
Yeah that would be great. And really, I would love to see that kind of stuff expanded for everyone. I think pretty much all races should be able to have some kind of tatoo (like, Dwaves should be able to look like Wildhammer Dwarves, Orcs could have war paint, etc) and I'd love to see more options like additional beards or more hairstyles, etc.
All i'm really wondering about is when I get to have my moonkin form change with my hair color. I mean sure is great that bear and cat form got new models, but im not a filthy fur druid. *preens*
L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I just want my main, Shaman, and Hunter, both of which are Trolls, to one day blink.
Or do something when idle. Standing there like a goddamned wooden board when other races, sigh, breath, look behind them, look around, wince, fart, scratch their asses, etc., is kind of discouraging.
I, for one, wouldn't mind the player characters getting updated. At least most of the female models for the original eight races. Dwarves, Trolls and Tauren were all added in towards the end, and it shows. Their quality is just lacking.
Fun fact, when I made my Shaman, I didn't even realize that I had selected female. I thought I had a male for the longest time, until someone in my guild started mocking me about it.
Racial bonuses are incredibly marginal and nearly meaningless. They shouldn't be a huge factor for you.
Play whatever race you think is cool/looks cool.
This is something I'm extremely pissed about with this game. When you look at something like Oblivion, where all the playable races have game-changing traits, WoW's "racial traits" are a goddamn joke. I understand balancing for an online environment, but it can be done without leaving everything as tiny bonuses. If everyone has 2 or 3 extreme advantages exclusive to their race, it IS still balanced in the long run. Sure, if a draenei walks up to a shadow priest and kicks the shit out of him because draenei are resistant to shadow magic, oh well, but it's not the only thing you're running into in the online environment. Because as a troll priest, your health is regenerating faster than other people's would be.
Yeah no. I'm happy with the way it is. Balance is hard and I'd rather races continue to be borderline irrelevant. Let it be cosmetic, no one should ever feel like they have to play a race they fucking hate to be optimal with their class.
Orcs are "optimal" for Unholy DKs but it's still to an extent that can be shrugged at without a second thought. Especially with Expertise being significantly less relevant in the current metagame.
Racial bonuses are incredibly marginal and nearly meaningless. They shouldn't be a huge factor for you.
Play whatever race you think is cool/looks cool.
This is something I'm extremely pissed about with this game. When you look at something like Oblivion, where all the playable races have game-changing traits, WoW's "racial traits" are a goddamn joke. I understand balancing for an online environment, but it can be done without leaving everything as tiny bonuses. If everyone has 2 or 3 extreme advantages exclusive to their race, it IS still balanced in the long run. Sure, if a draenei walks up to a shadow priest and kicks the shit out of him because draenei are resistant to shadow magic, oh well, but it's not the only thing you're running into in the online environment. Because as a troll priest, your health is regenerating faster than other people's would be.
Yeah no. I'm happy with the way it is. Balance is hard and I'd rather races continue to be borderline irrelevant. Let it be cosmetic, no one should ever feel like they have to play a race they fucking hate to be optimal with their class.
Orcs are "optimal" for Unholy DKs but it's still to an extent that can be shrugged at without a second thought. Especially with Expertise being significantly less relevant in the current metagame.
I dont know man, 5% increased dmg for pets seems like quite a bit to me, especially for hunters.
Racial bonuses are incredibly marginal and nearly meaningless. They shouldn't be a huge factor for you.
Play whatever race you think is cool/looks cool.
This is something I'm extremely pissed about with this game. When you look at something like Oblivion, where all the playable races have game-changing traits, WoW's "racial traits" are a goddamn joke. I understand balancing for an online environment, but it can be done without leaving everything as tiny bonuses. If everyone has 2 or 3 extreme advantages exclusive to their race, it IS still balanced in the long run. Sure, if a draenei walks up to a shadow priest and kicks the shit out of him because draenei are resistant to shadow magic, oh well, but it's not the only thing you're running into in the online environment. Because as a troll priest, your health is regenerating faster than other people's would be.
Yeah no. I'm happy with the way it is. Balance is hard and I'd rather races continue to be borderline irrelevant. Let it be cosmetic, no one should ever feel like they have to play a race they fucking hate to be optimal with their class.
Orcs are "optimal" for Unholy DKs but it's still to an extent that can be shrugged at without a second thought. Especially with Expertise being significantly less relevant in the current metagame.
I dont know man, 5% increased dmg for pets seems like quite a bit to me, especially for hunters.
I also don't get how expertise is less relevant.
You get free expertise, you get to reforge some excess into more useful stats like crit and such.
Unless you mean that the amount of expertise needed per point is relatively small compared to the inflation of other stats.
Let it be cosmetic, no one should ever feel like they have to play a race they fucking hate to be optimal with their class.
This is why racials have to be minor/flavor at best. It is just unfair to people to have to play a certain race to be ideal for their class. We all know full well that people wouldn't want a less than ideal race-class combo in their random party. It would just cause a lot of unnecessary grief for .. what? It's not like WoW is immersive like Oblivion or something to begin with.
I actually rather liked FFXI's races, mostly because there was such a huge difference between them. But their differences made it, like ... Yes, that Galka Paladin has a huge ridiculous amount of hitpoints and Vitality for soaking damage, but he has like no mana for Flash and shit like that. Taru's were frail, but good at dodging, and shat MP from every orafice. Mithras could dodge around more with their naturally higher Agi, etc.
Having races have large differences in their stats, or giving them powerful abilities, works... But those stats/abilities have to be useful, in different ways, to most classes.
I'd rather see racials removed entirely and replaced with a talent-like system, except the talent tree is the same for every class. Maybe you could choose one or two big, main on-use abilities when you create the character, and then choose some passive bonuses as you level up.
Also, the game really isn't hard enough that you can't make up the slight advantage/disadvantage of racials with just a little bit of extra skill. Except for the first few world first kills in raids, and extra 1 or 2% in anything doesn't make much difference in PvE.
Grand Vizier Ertan
* His health has been reduced slightly.
* He now knocks away players standing too close to him when he retracts his Cyclone Shield, which now inflicts Nature damage if it touches players.
Well there goes that strategy of just standing on him.
So in other words, Blizzard didn't feel there was enough of their raids' "fuck you, melee" design in heroics? Good, good. It'll be nice that melee will have to spend about 20% of the fight standing around playing grab ass while ranged have full uptime.
I'd rather see racials removed entirely and replaced with a talent-like system, except the talent tree is the same for every class. Maybe you could choose one or two big, main on-use abilities when you create the character, and then choose some passive bonuses as you level up.
Trolls are so-so, not great but not completely awful. But compare the Troll models to Forest (ZA) or Ice Trolls (Zul'Drak) and it's night & day.
Imagine the shit they could do though with face paint, tusk design, piercings, etc.
Yeah that would be great. And really, I would love to see that kind of stuff expanded for everyone. I think pretty much all races should be able to have some kind of tatoo (like, Dwaves should be able to look like Wildhammer Dwarves, Orcs could have war paint, etc) and I'd love to see more options like additional beards or more hairstyles, etc.
All i'm really wondering about is when I get to have my moonkin form change with my hair color. I mean sure is great that bear and cat form got new models, but im not a filthy fur druid. *preens*
I'd just be happy to see worgens and trolls get their own moonkin form, rather than have a recolor of night elf/tauren.
Trolls are so-so, not great but not completely awful. But compare the Troll models to Forest (ZA) or Ice Trolls (Zul'Drak) and it's night & day.
Imagine the shit they could do though with face paint, tusk design, piercings, etc.
Yeah that would be great. And really, I would love to see that kind of stuff expanded for everyone. I think pretty much all races should be able to have some kind of tatoo (like, Dwaves should be able to look like Wildhammer Dwarves, Orcs could have war paint, etc) and I'd love to see more options like additional beards or more hairstyles, etc.
All i'm really wondering about is when I get to have my moonkin form change with my hair color. I mean sure is great that bear and cat form got new models, but im not a filthy fur druid. *preens*
I'd just be happy to see worgens and trolls get their own moonkin form, rather than have a recolor of night elf/tauren.
Even the nightelf/Tauren were different enough (Horns vs Antlers) I would like Worgen and Troll to get their own but I don't know how much a change like that would been prioritized
Delphinidaes on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Trolls are so-so, not great but not completely awful. But compare the Troll models to Forest (ZA) or Ice Trolls (Zul'Drak) and it's night & day.
Imagine the shit they could do though with face paint, tusk design, piercings, etc.
Yeah that would be great. And really, I would love to see that kind of stuff expanded for everyone. I think pretty much all races should be able to have some kind of tatoo (like, Dwaves should be able to look like Wildhammer Dwarves, Orcs could have war paint, etc) and I'd love to see more options like additional beards or more hairstyles, etc.
All i'm really wondering about is when I get to have my moonkin form change with my hair color. I mean sure is great that bear and cat form got new models, but im not a filthy fur druid. *preens*
I'd just be happy to see worgens and trolls get their own moonkin form, rather than have a recolor of night elf/tauren.
Even the nightelf/Tauren were different enough (Horns vs Antlers) I would like Worgen and Troll to get their own but I don't know how much a change like that would been prioritized
I'm pretty sure they said before Cataclysm was released that they're working on new models for moonkins, but that it isn't a priority.
Trolls are so-so, not great but not completely awful. But compare the Troll models to Forest (ZA) or Ice Trolls (Zul'Drak) and it's night & day.
Imagine the shit they could do though with face paint, tusk design, piercings, etc.
Yeah that would be great. And really, I would love to see that kind of stuff expanded for everyone. I think pretty much all races should be able to have some kind of tatoo (like, Dwaves should be able to look like Wildhammer Dwarves, Orcs could have war paint, etc) and I'd love to see more options like additional beards or more hairstyles, etc.
All i'm really wondering about is when I get to have my moonkin form change with my hair color. I mean sure is great that bear and cat form got new models, but im not a filthy fur druid. *preens*
I'd just be happy to see worgens and trolls get their own moonkin form, rather than have a recolor of night elf/tauren.
Even the nightelf/Tauren were different enough (Horns vs Antlers) I would like Worgen and Troll to get their own but I don't know how much a change like that would been prioritized
I'm pretty sure they said before Cataclysm was released that they're working on new models for moonkins, but that it isn't a priority.
Guessed as much. Ah well. I'm just glad they are adding in the new flight forms at least.
Delphinidaes on
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Also, the game really isn't hard enough that you can't make up the slight advantage/disadvantage of racials with just a little bit of extra skill. Except for the first few world first kills in raids, and extra 1 or 2% in anything doesn't make much difference in PvE.
Racials like BE silence for cho'gall's worship and goblin rocket jump for any encounter ever are absolutely bullshit.
end-game raiding is redundant. There's only one tier of content. Shit matters.
Edit: Mechanical abuses (Every Man, Rocket Jump, etc.) will never stop mattering in raid content unless they either quit making interesting fights or homogenize racials.
JAEF on
0
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
2% is not trivial at all when you look at it as a ratio of total avoidance. For example, not counting block, I've got about 24% avoidance before diminishing returns. Granted, I'm stacking mastery, but I wouldn't be able to push that above 30% even if I wanted to. I'm not exactly raid geared yet, I've only run a few heroics, but that's my point. The significance gets greater as you level, peaks when you ding 85 and your ratings plummet for the last time, and then slowly gets less and less significant as you gear up.
In a world of non-trivial heroics, an improvement of nearly 10% to one of the most fundamental characteristics of your role is not ignorable. I'm not saying it's amazing, I'm not saying tank = night elf or gtfo. I'm just saying it is significant.
In the end the profession buffs are (generally) much more significant than the racials.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Grand Vizier Ertan
* His health has been reduced slightly.
* He now knocks away players standing too close to him when he retracts his Cyclone Shield, which now inflicts Nature damage if it touches players.
Well there goes that strategy of just standing on him.
So in other words, Blizzard didn't feel there was enough of their raids' "fuck you, melee" design in heroics? Good, good. It'll be nice that melee will have to spend about 20% of the fight standing around playing grab ass while ranged have full uptime.
Well, to be fair ranged has to deal with the massive slow effect in that fight.
Always feels like something is missing in that fight. Like.. this is it? Just stand here? Okkaaay.
Grand Vizier Ertan
* His health has been reduced slightly.
* He now knocks away players standing too close to him when he retracts his Cyclone Shield, which now inflicts Nature damage if it touches players.
Well there goes that strategy of just standing on him.
So in other words, Blizzard didn't feel there was enough of their raids' "fuck you, melee" design in heroics? Good, good. It'll be nice that melee will have to spend about 20% of the fight standing around playing grab ass while ranged have full uptime.
Well, to be fair ranged has to deal with the massive slow effect in that fight.
Always feels like something is missing in that fight. Like.. this is it? Just stand here? Okkaaay.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that it's a poorly designed fight. Unfortunately, they decided to make it worse.
Javen on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
LOOK AT ME!!!! I'M A MANATAUR!!!
Henroid on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Grand Vizier Ertan
* His health has been reduced slightly.
* He now knocks away players standing too close to him when he retracts his Cyclone Shield, which now inflicts Nature damage if it touches players.
Well there goes that strategy of just standing on him.
So in other words, Blizzard didn't feel there was enough of their raids' "fuck you, melee" design in heroics? Good, good. It'll be nice that melee will have to spend about 20% of the fight standing around playing grab ass while ranged have full uptime.
Well, to be fair ranged has to deal with the massive slow effect in that fight.
Always feels like something is missing in that fight. Like.. this is it? Just stand here? Okkaaay.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that it's a poorly designed fight. Unfortunately, they decided to make it worse.
They didn't make it worse, they made it less boring.
If you were standing in melee range, you were still getting the HUGE slow debuff and gimping your DPS. IE - you were sucking
They are just now changing the encounter to force you to actually do something instead of just cheesing it and ignoring the mechanics of the fight (and hence making it deathly dull and longer then it needs to be because everyones DPS goes to shit)
It's real easy. Back up/move in through the spaces in the tornadoes, watch your DPS skyrocket compared to the geese standing in it.
If you were standing in melee range, you were still getting the HUGE slow debuff and gimping your DPS. IE - you were sucking
If you're standing inside the boss you never get hit with the cyclones and never get debuffed. That's what they're fixing. If you're stacking inside him and getting hit by cyclones right now you're doing it wrong.
JAEF on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
So is twinking still a thing? I'm thinking about raising a Warrior to 29 and leaving them there and having fun with Battlegrounds for awhile.
Well, you get experience from doing battlegrounds and gaining honor. But, you can pay an NPC to turn off experience in battlegrounds. But, I believe this also triggers you to only do battlegrounds against other players who turned exp off, so it's only twinks vs twinks.
Posts
All i'm really wondering about is when I get to have my moonkin form change with my hair color. I mean sure is great that bear and cat form got new models, but im not a filthy fur druid. *preens*
Unless you're a pet-focused class on Horde.
Then you play an Orc and bitch about it. Especially Unholy DK's.
Free DPS trinket for your racial. +5% pet damage. Free expertise on Axes.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Or do something when idle. Standing there like a goddamned wooden board when other races, sigh, breath, look behind them, look around, wince, fart, scratch their asses, etc., is kind of discouraging.
I, for one, wouldn't mind the player characters getting updated. At least most of the female models for the original eight races. Dwarves, Trolls and Tauren were all added in towards the end, and it shows. Their quality is just lacking.
Fun fact, when I made my Shaman, I didn't even realize that I had selected female. I thought I had a male for the longest time, until someone in my guild started mocking me about it.
Yeah no. I'm happy with the way it is. Balance is hard and I'd rather races continue to be borderline irrelevant. Let it be cosmetic, no one should ever feel like they have to play a race they fucking hate to be optimal with their class.
Orcs are "optimal" for Unholy DKs but it's still to an extent that can be shrugged at without a second thought. Especially with Expertise being significantly less relevant in the current metagame.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I dont know man, 5% increased dmg for pets seems like quite a bit to me, especially for hunters.
I also don't get how expertise is less relevant.
You get free expertise, you get to reforge some excess into more useful stats like crit and such.
Unless you mean that the amount of expertise needed per point is relatively small compared to the inflation of other stats.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
This is why racials have to be minor/flavor at best. It is just unfair to people to have to play a certain race to be ideal for their class. We all know full well that people wouldn't want a less than ideal race-class combo in their random party. It would just cause a lot of unnecessary grief for .. what? It's not like WoW is immersive like Oblivion or something to begin with.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
Having races have large differences in their stats, or giving them powerful abilities, works... But those stats/abilities have to be useful, in different ways, to most classes.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Race should be an exclusively aesthetic choice.
Blizzard sure loves to change racials enough, shit.
Hell, even in PvP, WotF ain't what it used to be.
Situational shadow res (which is actually more valuable right now with all the shadow damage flying around) isn't... bad.
Cannibalize was more relevant when you actually needed to stop to eat/drink while leveling.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I'd just be happy to see worgens and trolls get their own moonkin form, rather than have a recolor of night elf/tauren.
Steam: pazython
Even the nightelf/Tauren were different enough (Horns vs Antlers) I would like Worgen and Troll to get their own but I don't know how much a change like that would been prioritized
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I'm pretty sure they said before Cataclysm was released that they're working on new models for moonkins, but that it isn't a priority.
Guessed as much. Ah well. I'm just glad they are adding in the new flight forms at least.
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Oh yeah?
This is exactly my point. Those numbers are meaningless in every aspect of the game EXCEPT the end-game raiding.
.... Soooo, the level where most of us spend 90% of our time these days?
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Edit: Mechanical abuses (Every Man, Rocket Jump, etc.) will never stop mattering in raid content unless they either quit making interesting fights or homogenize racials.
In a world of non-trivial heroics, an improvement of nearly 10% to one of the most fundamental characteristics of your role is not ignorable. I'm not saying it's amazing, I'm not saying tank = night elf or gtfo. I'm just saying it is significant.
In the end the profession buffs are (generally) much more significant than the racials.
Well, to be fair ranged has to deal with the massive slow effect in that fight.
Always feels like something is missing in that fight. Like.. this is it? Just stand here? Okkaaay.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that it's a poorly designed fight. Unfortunately, they decided to make it worse.
Oh I didn't know everybody quit PvP'ing ever.
Are you going to throw me into your malevolent murder maze?
Steam: pazython
Nobody ever retires from the Phantom Limb's Shit List!
Looking for something... MANOTAAAAAAAAUR?
They didn't make it worse, they made it less boring.
If you were standing in melee range, you were still getting the HUGE slow debuff and gimping your DPS. IE - you were sucking
They are just now changing the encounter to force you to actually do something instead of just cheesing it and ignoring the mechanics of the fight (and hence making it deathly dull and longer then it needs to be because everyones DPS goes to shit)
It's real easy. Back up/move in through the spaces in the tornadoes, watch your DPS skyrocket compared to the geese standing in it.
Level 1 twinking has exploded.
Well, you get experience from doing battlegrounds and gaining honor. But, you can pay an NPC to turn off experience in battlegrounds. But, I believe this also triggers you to only do battlegrounds against other players who turned exp off, so it's only twinks vs twinks.