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Starcraft 2: We're just a bunch of crazy guys and Dhals.

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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    teamliquid is depressing to read anymore. everyone is fucking whining! about balance, about maps... it's really intolerable and ruins the game

    bad enough if I want to watch Idra stream I have to see comments like 'this game is a joke'

    I know he's pissed but if he really thinks that what does it say about his life? his dedication to being the best at this joke of a game.

    ugh. I guess I'm just a different type of fan than a lot of team liquid people. I'm not trying to be miserable about things I like 24/7. good god.

    Variable on
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    FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    But you play terran, you have nothing to complain about.

    Frozenzen on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    great

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    And the internet likes to whine, teamliquid has gotten such an amazingly huge influx of new people it was unavoidable, their moderators aren't nearly vicious enough.

    And you should take all my comments about terran with a grain of salt at this points, really.

    Frozenzen on
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    HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    When in doubt, always return to the following philosophy:

    "Vidja games are serious business."

    Heartlash on
    My indie mobile gaming studio: Elder Aeons
    Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
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    mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    reading teamliquid is a lot like reading blizzard forums-- they only make you hate people more. Just stay here, in the comfort of sanity.

    mastman on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    oh yeah I don't mean I don't know where it comes from, and certainly don't mean it's the website/community's fault, it's just difficult to deal with.

    the reason it keeps happening is I go there for news and streams and whatnot. because for that it is best

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Just respond with

    "Imba

    imba world"

    TL DR on
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    where are you guys watching these jinro games?

    bwanie on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    12 hours ago

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    heeyooo

    bwanie on
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    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    2v2s are infinitely more fun for me than 1v1s

    Zen Vulgarity on
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    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    4v4s are infinitely more fun 3v3s are infinitely more fun than 2v2s are infinitely more fun than 1v1s

    Zen Vulgarity on
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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    2v2s are infinitely more fun for me than 1v1s

    Not when your partner is some random unranked kid, or is in cahoots with the others to backstab you.

    Oh wonderful interwebs...

    MMMig on
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    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
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    hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm feeling really good about playing SC2 lately - it seems like I've turned some kind of corner where, while my macro is still bad, it feels like I see more stuff to improve while I'm playing, if that makes sense. So, for example, I'll still miss workers during the first push/defense but now I'll remember "oh shit, workers!" after just a bit, rather than just stopping at 24 workers or what have you.

    It feels like I've got more potential to improve now than I did, say, a month ago. It's exciting!

    hlprmnky on
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    TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    2v2's suck when you're zerg. Oh look.. I'm always the target of everything because I don't have a wall. =_=

    TheBog on
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    MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Muriden wrote: »
    I remember listening to Idra (of all people) on State of the Game talk about how Brood War never got to be great until Blizzard stopped patching it. Once the players knew there wouldn't be any changes they had to stop thinking in terms of balance and start actually playing the game.

    MikeMan on
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    CuddlyCuteKittenCuddlyCuteKitten Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Muriden wrote: »
    I remember listening to Idra (of all people) on State of the Game talk about how Brood War never got to be great until Blizzard stopped patching it. Once the players knew there wouldn't be any changes they had to stop thinking in terms of balance and start actually playing the game.

    A lot of necessary balance changes before that happened though.

    I also think Blizzard is much better this time around. They have a LOT of more imput from different sources and it seems they aim to make the game more fun as well as more balanced with each patches. In BW a lot of the units were never used or very rarely used and I hope they try to fix that in SCII.

    Edit: A suggestion for the OP. When I started SC2 I just went with protoss and played. I got much better much quicker once I got the Dhal strat and perfected it because I felt safe. I then branched out to other strats as I got bored but I had a firm grasp of what makes a good BO and why. It also makes the first games a lot less painful because you don't lose just because you don't know your BO. I switched to zerg recently since that was my second BW race and I've thus far been doing the 7 RR strat. I feel that having a solid opening that is general and works is a great way to learn a new race because you get further into the game and get a good feel to the mechanics.

    So I wonder if we could add 1 "general" strat for each race in the OP so new players have a solid BO to start out with. Something like 7 RR, 3 rax or *shudder* 4 gate

    CuddlyCuteKitten on
    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaow - Felicia, SPFT2:T
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    kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Muriden wrote: »
    I remember listening to Idra (of all people) on State of the Game talk about how Brood War never got to be great until Blizzard stopped patching it. Once the players knew there wouldn't be any changes they had to stop thinking in terms of balance and start actually playing the game.

    A lot of necessary balance changes before that happened though.

    I also think Blizzard is much better this time around. They have a LOT of more imput from different sources and it seems they aim to make the game more fun as well as more balanced with each patches. In BW a lot of the units were never used or very rarely used and I hope they try to fix that in SCII.

    I'm pretty happy with what seems to be a proposed revamping of LT.

    Really mitigating the balance issues that Lost Temple seems to have.

    kedinik on
    I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
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    Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    the horror...
    Teamliquid wrote:
    WHY DO BLIZZARD AND CUSTOM MAP MAKERS REFUSE TO USE THE DESERT/BADLANDS TILESET A LA DESERT OASIS? WTF!?!?!!?!?

    the horror...

    Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo on
    SteamID- Enders || SC2 ID - BurningCrome.721 || Blogging - Laputan Machine
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    Orikae! |RS| : why is everyone yelling 'enders is dead go'
    When I say pop it that means pop it
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    TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Legit question. I'm a big fan of the desert tileset. I wish more maps would use it.

    TheBog on
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    Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    otherwise known as "TF2 syndrome"

    Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo on
    SteamID- Enders || SC2 ID - BurningCrome.721 || Blogging - Laputan Machine
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    Orikae! |RS| : why is everyone yelling 'enders is dead go'
    When I say pop it that means pop it
    heavy.gif
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    EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I really want a snow tileset map.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    What would be REALLY cool is a swamp tileset, with water ripples as you walk around n stuff.

    Or marsh too (GIS marsh for NSFW GG).

    MMMig on
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    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    snow would be awesome

    I just want more maps. I'd rather them just throw maps at us every freaking week and see what sticks.

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    peacekeeperpeacekeeper AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    they have thrown new maps at us, they're on the ptr and they look tiny and bad

    peacekeeper on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I mean

    so many maps

    not 5 after like 8 months

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    ImthebOHGODBEESImthebOHGODBEES Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Hello! I think I've posted in here a few times, mostly whining. Less whining this post!

    Allow me to preface this post by also mentioning that I am just a lowly silver lvl zerg player who admits he has lots to learn. Moving on!

    First, as I was reading through the discussions about zerg early game, and trying to balance things, I had a thought. What if the unburrow time for spinecrawlers were to exist (instant atm) and the burrow time were lessened? Pulling numbers out of a bodily orrifice, say 2 seconds to unburrow, then 4 seconds to re-burrow.

    I know for me, this could/would dramaaaatically change my early game play. As it is, I only ever make spinecrawlers when I know from scouting that my oponent is doing something super early cheezy. Which, with my very limited scouting skills, means rarely to almost never. Why? because I don't dare move them. Early game, you want them close to your hatch so they can't be surrounded quite as easily. But mid-late, if their army is that close to your hatch, you're already dead. But when do I move them? 10 seconds to actually be anything other than target practice is a looooooooooooooooong time. I think if it were slightly easier to re-position spine-crawlers, I would be more likely to try and use them for more than just cheeze stoppers.

    But as I said at the beginning, I'm lowbie learning silver. How/would this affect higher level play? IMBAIMBA, lol doesn't matter, or hmmm it's a thinker?

    Anyway, second thought train:

    My co-workers and I talk oft times about the differences in the races, and something occured to me:
    All 3 races have mobile stealth detection.
    All 3 races have stationary stealth detection.
    For general scouting, zerg have to risk a unit, protos USUALLY risk a unit (even if it's a stealthed detector thingy, it's risky, and illusion doesn't always exist in their builds) but terran just scan.
    That seems unfair right? Zerg and protoss scouting can be (if you really want to invest in it) completely shut down, but Terran can't be stopped no matter what you do.

    But on the other hand, I look at stealthed units.

    Protoss have DTs and detectors, (and anything under a mothership I know, but shush you) which are permanently stealthed. Zerg have burrowed roaches and infestors which have to pop out of stealth to attack, but could conceivably stay stealthed for infinity. Terran stealth takes energy, their ghosts and banshees WILL eventually stop being stealthed, one way or another.

    I'm not really making anything of the second point, just an interesting difference I noted to myself. Basically I see the differences as being something that I as a zerg player can really try to focus on to exploit to the best of my ability. Not sure how yet. Any ideas?

    ImthebOHGODBEES on
    Do you, in fact, have any builds in this shop at all?
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    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The races are different, yes. If they weren't the game wouldn't be interesting. I highly doubt that changing burrow/unburrow time on spinecrawlers wouldn't solve any real pro-level "issues" with racial balance.

    JAEF on
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    ImthebOHGODBEESImthebOHGODBEES Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well I know they're different :P

    I was sort of hoping to lead discussion specifically to how I, as a new zerg player, can use those differences noted to my advantage, instead of having them hurt me when my base gets scanned by a terran and I can do nothing about it >.<

    ImthebOHGODBEES on
    Do you, in fact, have any builds in this shop at all?
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    MashimaroMashimaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Hello! I think I've posted in here a few times, mostly whining. Less whining this post!

    Allow me to preface this post by also mentioning that I am just a lowly silver lvl zerg player who admits he has lots to learn. Moving on!

    First, as I was reading through the discussions about zerg early game, and trying to balance things, I had a thought. What if the unburrow time for spinecrawlers were to exist (instant atm) and the burrow time were lessened? Pulling numbers out of a bodily orrifice, say 2 seconds to unburrow, then 4 seconds to re-burrow.

    I know for me, this could/would dramaaaatically change my early game play. As it is, I only ever make spinecrawlers when I know from scouting that my oponent is doing something super early cheezy. Which, with my very limited scouting skills, means rarely to almost never. Why? because I don't dare move them. Early game, you want them close to your hatch so they can't be surrounded quite as easily. But mid-late, if their army is that close to your hatch, you're already dead. But when do I move them? 10 seconds to actually be anything other than target practice is a looooooooooooooooong time. I think if it were slightly easier to re-position spine-crawlers, I would be more likely to try and use them for more than just cheeze stoppers.

    But as I said at the beginning, I'm lowbie learning silver. How/would this affect higher level play? IMBAIMBA, lol doesn't matter, or hmmm it's a thinker?

    Anyway, second thought train:

    My co-workers and I talk oft times about the differences in the races, and something occured to me:
    All 3 races have mobile stealth detection.
    All 3 races have stationary stealth detection.
    For general scouting, zerg have to risk a unit, protos USUALLY risk a unit (even if it's a stealthed detector thingy, it's risky, and illusion doesn't always exist in their builds) but terran just scan.
    That seems unfair right? Zerg and protoss scouting can be (if you really want to invest in it) completely shut down, but Terran can't be stopped no matter what you do.

    But on the other hand, I look at stealthed units.

    Protoss have DTs and detectors, (and anything under a mothership I know, but shush you) which are permanently stealthed. Zerg have burrowed roaches and infestors which have to pop out of stealth to attack, but could conceivably stay stealthed for infinity. Terran stealth takes energy, their ghosts and banshees WILL eventually stop being stealthed, one way or another.

    I'm not really making anything of the second point, just an interesting difference I noted to myself. Basically I see the differences as being something that I as a zerg player can really try to focus on to exploit to the best of my ability. Not sure how yet. Any ideas?

    wat?

    Mashimaro on
    463084-1.png
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    MashimaroMashimaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Variable wrote: »
    snow would be awesome

    I just want more maps. I'd rather them just throw maps at us every freaking week and see what sticks.

    Me too.... me too....

    You know what's fun? Iccup maps :)

    Mashimaro on
    463084-1.png
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    StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Variable wrote: »
    teamliquid is depressing to read anymore. everyone is fucking whining! about balance, about maps... it's really intolerable and ruins the game

    bad enough if I want to watch Idra stream I have to see comments like 'this game is a joke'

    I know he's pissed but if he really thinks that what does it say about his life? his dedication to being the best at this joke of a game.

    ugh. I guess I'm just a different type of fan than a lot of team liquid people. I'm not trying to be miserable about things I like 24/7. good god.

    That isn't too different from this thread, the way it's been lately.

    TL used to be different back in BW days, but there's not much they can do now. I hope they create a pro-player only section that we can read, it's how I usually read threads there now anyways, it'd just save me having to scroll through hundreds of shitty posts.

    Streltsy on
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    SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Eh, I think a lot of us (Well at least me) like to come here and whine/complain just to let steam off. I know I am in now way qualified to say what is balanced or not, but I like stating an opinion on what I think is dumb.

    Like Planetary Fortresses.

    Satsumomo on
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    His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Streltsy wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    teamliquid is depressing to read anymore. everyone is fucking whining! about balance, about maps... it's really intolerable and ruins the game

    bad enough if I want to watch Idra stream I have to see comments like 'this game is a joke'

    I know he's pissed but if he really thinks that what does it say about his life? his dedication to being the best at this joke of a game.

    ugh. I guess I'm just a different type of fan than a lot of team liquid people. I'm not trying to be miserable about things I like 24/7. good god.

    That isn't too different from this thread, the way it's been lately.

    TL used to be different back in BW days, but there's not much they can do now. I hope they create a pro-player only section that we can read, it's how I usually read threads there now anyways, it'd just save me having to scroll through hundreds of shitty posts.
    They're going to have VIP posts "highlighted", which seems like a completely non-solution to me.

    His Corkiness on
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    EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Soooooo...new maps on PTR?

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
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    SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Streltsy wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    teamliquid is depressing to read anymore. everyone is fucking whining! about balance, about maps... it's really intolerable and ruins the game

    bad enough if I want to watch Idra stream I have to see comments like 'this game is a joke'

    I know he's pissed but if he really thinks that what does it say about his life? his dedication to being the best at this joke of a game.

    ugh. I guess I'm just a different type of fan than a lot of team liquid people. I'm not trying to be miserable about things I like 24/7. good god.

    That isn't too different from this thread, the way it's been lately.

    TL used to be different back in BW days, but there's not much they can do now. I hope they create a pro-player only section that we can read, it's how I usually read threads there now anyways, it'd just save me having to scroll through hundreds of shitty posts.
    They're going to have VIP posts "highlighted", which seems like a completely non-solution to me.

    TBH, it seems like a pretty good solution to a pretty difficult problem. Draw attention to reputable and notable members of the community so that they stand out from the rest.

    Sceptre on
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    His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    A large part of the problem was that hardly any VIPs even post because of the inevitable tide of shitposts every time they do. I don't think that'll change just because their posts are now a different colour. I also don't want to wade through a 20-page thread just to read 4 posts by knowledgeable people.

    His Corkiness on
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    HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well I know they're different :P

    I was sort of hoping to lead discussion specifically to how I, as a new zerg player, can use those differences noted to my advantage, instead of having them hurt me when my base gets scanned by a terran and I can do nothing about it >.<

    If you want to know the differentiating advantages of Zerg, they are, on a basic level, twofold.

    1. Expanding is faster/less expensive, and provides you with an increase in both resource harvesting AND production capacity (via additional larva).

    2. Mobility. Zerg have, by in large, the fastest units for their cost effectiveness of any of the races. Absolutely study ways in which this can be used to your advantage on specific maps and in specific situations. You have the best potential for harassment, and withdrawal is much more viable with a number of your unit types than it is with the other races.

    Other than that, the main way to improve Zerg play is to focus very specifically on two things. Always use your larva, and always inject larva. If you have larva sitting around and it isn't for a VERY specific reason (e.g. I'm waiting for my spire to finish so I can build exactly X mutas at the same time, etc), then you are not using the race to its full potential.

    From there, it's a matter getting a strong enough game sense that you know when to drone vs when to pump units for either offense or defense. A general rule of thumb is that if you know you've got a safe window, or are performing an aggressive maneuver yourself, build drones and nothing but drones. The faster you get your bases saturated, the faster you will be able to construct and replenish an army.

    EDIT:

    Also, with regard to your spine crawler issue, it would be pretty irrelevant at higher levels. Spine crawlers simply are not used or moved in battle all that much. It happens from time to time, but it would hardly be a game changer.

    Heartlash on
    My indie mobile gaming studio: Elder Aeons
    Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
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    EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The changes to LT are great. Love it. It's like playing Shakuras. Wider chokes, nice open center with only 1 watchtower to control, breakable rocks to islands. I think the ramp is a touch wider too.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
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