Another thing that is good to do when jungling with Trundle is to troll the enemy jungler (so you are playing in-character!).
Does the enemy jungler absolutely have to start at the blue golem? This gives you a lot of freedom for trolling.
You can convince your team to gank him if you think you can win a level 1 team fight. Or you can start at the lizard side of his jungle and steal whatever you can get away with.
Or my personal favorite, convincing your team to help kill the wraiths and the lizard, and leaving one little monster alive at both camps. I have had enemy junglers use some very unkind words after discovering that!
yeah i think i am going to get trundle and learn the vampiric scepter->minigolem->wolves->wraiths-> back-> big golem route
when jungling, when do you STOP jungling?
You stop when you have gank opportunities. If there is nowhere you should be to kill someone, you keep jungling. This continues until your game shifts into the teamfight phase in which case you are roaming with your team taking towers and killing their team.
There is no definite time, but the basic rule is if you COULD be helping your team or killing someone else. You should not be jungling. If there is no objective for you to take at any given time (or one that is about to become available) Then you go back to jungling.
Delphinidaes on
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yeah i think i am going to get trundle and learn the vampiric scepter->minigolem->wolves->wraiths-> back-> big golem route
when jungling, when do you STOP jungling?
You stop when you have gank opportunities. If there is nowhere you should be to kill someone, you keep jungling. This continues until your game shifts into the teamfight phase in which case you are roaming with your team taking towers and killing their team.
There is no definite time, but the basic rule is if you COULD be helping your team or killing someone else. You should not be jungling. If there is no objective for you to take at any given time (or one that is about to become available) Then you go back to jungling.
thanks for this, and all the other jungling tips guys!
yeah i think i am going to get trundle and learn the vampiric scepter->minigolem->wolves->wraiths-> back-> big golem route
when jungling, when do you STOP jungling?
You stop when you have gank opportunities. If there is nowhere you should be to kill someone, you keep jungling. This continues until your game shifts into the teamfight phase in which case you are roaming with your team taking towers and killing their team.
There is no definite time, but the basic rule is if you COULD be helping your team or killing someone else. You should not be jungling. If there is no objective for you to take at any given time (or one that is about to become available) Then you go back to jungling.
Pretty much this. Although I would suggest that you not press for ganks. By which I mean keep an eye out for a good opportunity but don't waste your time if they're just around the river amount of pushed in and likely to escape a gank. A good route on a fast jungler should allow you to keep up with a solo lane until around level 6ish which is when they start outpacing you for good, so just wasting time on failganks is not productive at all if there are camps you could be clearing.
Basically, gank if it's a high percentage play, don't gank if it's a low percentage play. It just takes experience and developing good instincts to know when's a good time to gank.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Failing multiple ganks is a great way to fall far behind the solo lane in experience.
I actually prefer to play a really reactive, counter-aggressive style of jungler. If they're pushing hard I'm going to punish the shit out of them, if they try to tower dive one of my laners they're going to pay, if the enemy jungler tries to gank he's getting counterganked. I look for plays where I catch them committed to an aggressive action then flip it around on them by appearing where I'm not expected.
Some games (where the enemy team is playing very passive and not making aggressive moves I can punish) this means I rarely "gank" in the traditional hide in brush then pop out to disrupt a lane sense; in these games I'll focus strongly on controlling dragon and keeping my jungle clear. (The controlling dragon part is key, of course.)
Granted, a more gank-centric jungler than my Warwick--Rammus for instance--can press ganks and have it work, he can nail you an inch outside of tower range and kill you with a good taunt. In that case you probably want to go for a more aggressive style of play. (And I do, when I play Rammus; I'll do really annoying shit like camp one solo lane and gank them three times in a row in a short period, until they finally die to it.)
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
yeah i think i am going to get trundle and learn the vampiric scepter->minigolem->wolves->wraiths-> back-> big golem route
when jungling, when do you STOP jungling?
You stop when you have gank opportunities. If there is nowhere you should be to kill someone, you keep jungling. This continues until your game shifts into the teamfight phase in which case you are roaming with your team taking towers and killing their team.
There is no definite time, but the basic rule is if you COULD be helping your team or killing someone else. You should not be jungling. If there is no objective for you to take at any given time (or one that is about to become available) Then you go back to jungling.
Pretty much this. Although I would suggest that you not press for ganks. By which I mean keep an eye out for a good opportunity but don't waste your time if they're just around the river amount of pushed in and likely to escape a gank. A good route on a fast jungler should allow you to keep up with a solo lane until around level 6ish which is when they start outpacing you for good, so just wasting time on failganks is not productive at all if there are camps you could be clearing.
Basically, gank if it's a high percentage play, don't gank if it's a low percentage play. It just takes experience and developing good instincts to know when's a good time to gank.
You might do this but it wasn't clear, but putting pressure on a lane when you can is always help. Making the enemy miss last hits by scaring them away or making them blow summoner spells.
As an example in my last game the enemy didn't have a jungle, I was WW, we had Malphite top and the enemy had Janna and Shen. Janna was half HP and low mana so I waited for them to push tower ran in (level 3 or 4 I forget) and janna ghosts, shen exhausts me and they both ran for their tower. I couldn't have killed them but I did make them blow summoners and buy top some breathing room.
If you're waiting for camps to spawn and you don't need to buy - attempt a gank or kill something of theirs. At the very least you'll get them to blow their summoners and B.
Usually when I'm in a lane i'll try calling out to the jungler for an upcoming gank, and then proceed to let my lane push and bait out the enemies. I find that tipping the jungler off that i'm trying to set up a gank well before the actual gank attempt helps a LOT. It give him time to get down to my lane and get in position, and gives me time to discretely let the lane push out while making it look like i'm just losing the lane battle.
Then the enemy team gets eager as I start leaving myself in bad positions that they think they can capitalize on and WHAM, jungler comes barreling out of a bush and it's a gank/double kill.
Works especially well since I've been playing Annie as I can just Shield/stun/combo to give the jungler enough time to close the distance and get a redbuff hit off or two.
Delphinidaes on
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If you're waiting for camps to spawn and you don't need to buy - attempt a gank or kill something of theirs. At the very least you'll get them to blow their summoners and B.
Not necessarily. Lanes playing passively and safely can make it impossible to close the distance before they achieve tower range. Especially if they buy wards. Often if you do this all you'll get is a minute or two wasted which you could have spent buying, dropping wards, whatever (something useful).
At my Elo it's rare to catch somebody just camping out near the enemy tower unless they have strong ward sight (in which case they'll back off when you approach). They commit to an aggressive action for a short time then retreat and resume playing passively and safely. The key is to catch them in the act of aggression and punish them for it.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
If you're waiting for camps to spawn and you don't need to buy - attempt a gank or kill something of theirs. At the very least you'll get them to blow their summoners and B.
There have been so many times where I've bluffed and chased after someone that I knew I wouldn't be able to kill and they would blow one or both of their summoner spells to get away.
It's definitely worth trying if you don't have anything else to do.
Slicer on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
So, new champion, what are we thinking here? Support caster?
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna buy her, but I've no clue how I'm going to fit her into my stable. Still gotta get more time on Renekton when I can, but I've been doing mostly Ranked recently, so I've only gone to my go-to heroes.
So, new champion, what are we thinking here? Support caster?
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna buy her, but I've no clue how I'm going to fit her into my stable. Still gotta get more time on Renekton when I can, but I've been doing mostly Ranked recently, so I've only gone to my go-to heroes.
Not a clue. Honestly her design could go a bunch of different ways. I could see her being a support caster, or using those fans as some sort of ranged assassin type weapon. The clothing doesn't seem to lend itself to high mobility though so probably not a very mobile assassin. They could go tanky with her and use the fans as some sort of shielding mechanic?
Who knows.
Delphinidaes on
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If you're waiting for camps to spawn and you don't need to buy - attempt a gank or kill something of theirs. At the very least you'll get them to blow their summoners and B.
Not necessarily. Lanes playing passively and safely can make it impossible to close the distance before they achieve tower range. Especially if they buy wards. Often if you do this all you'll get is a minute or two wasted which you could have spent buying, dropping wards, whatever (something useful).
At my Elo it's rare to catch somebody just camping out near the enemy tower unless they have strong ward sight (in which case they'll back off when you approach). They commit to an aggressive action for a short time then retreat and resume playing passively and safely. The key is to catch them in the act of aggression and punish them for it.
Yes, I agree fully. Aggressive play = pull out of jungle cycle and punish. During a normal cycle where there is no aggression, if you don't need to buy or drop wards, and there's not more than 2 creep camps spawned - pressure a lane. At the very least it will force them to do SOMETHING, which hopefully forces them out of their rotation/cuts down on EXP/gold. You are sacrificing nothing, as the only option you have is a risky play into their jungle, whereas they sacrifice something (provided you and their jungler aren't on the same timings).
It also messes with some people's rhythm, which is all you need to catch them a few minutes later with the pants down.
Especially as someone like Udyr or WW (most junglers really) that aren't a carry I think it is important to pressure lanes and make sure your carry can do better, and hurt theirs. If they miss 10 cs that is almost 300 gold, just for showing up in a lane. I will sometimes run through from blue to red if the lane is pushed up, get a hit in and they might even blow summoners.
Fizban140 on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Certain junglers are fucked if you break their rhythm
Hey guys, last time I played Irelia was considered "meh". Has she improved at all? Is she still a jungler or can she lane?
She can do both as far as I know, and from what I have seen she can be played at high ELOs but I think Xin is usually the better pick.
I was thinking, why isn't there a list of champion guides in the OP? I mean there are sites like mobafire, but the guides for the most part suck. I bookmark posts in the thread on champion guides, and from high ELO players (reginald, doublelift) wherever I find them.
Hey guys, last time I played Irelia was considered "meh". Has she improved at all? Is she still a jungler or can she lane?
She can do both as far as I know, and from what I have seen she can be played at high ELOs but I think Xin is usually the better pick.
I was thinking, why isn't there a list of champion guides in the OP? I mean there are sites like mobafire, but the guides for the most part suck. I bookmark posts in the thread on champion guides, and from high ELO players (reginald, doublelift) wherever I find them.
Because originally someone was collecting all of our guides from the forum and compiling them into a database. Not sure what happened with that though.
Delphinidaes on
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because the advice here is as bad or worse than on mobafire/etc.
bigwah on
LoL Tribunal:
"Was cursing, in broken english at his team, and at our team. made fun of dead family members and mentioned he had sex with a dog."
"Hope he dies tbh but a ban would do."
0
MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
The other day our midrelia beat a kassadin, though I can't really comment on his skill level since we were owning the sidelanes as well and rolled in teamfights
nealcm on
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MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I gave Irelia a spin the other day and found that her increased ranges on Q and E make things quite a lot easier to mess with people. Also, Wit's End + SotD + Stark's + Bloodrazor = hilarity. I need to play her some more, but I keep getting stuck in the tank role.
My trick of choice when I happen to jungle is to go for a gank and if it fails just run back off the way you came. Generally when that happens the people you tried to gank are like, "fail gank, back to business as usual," and then they go push out again thinking that since you failed the gank you went back to jungle.
But then you pop out of the bushes again and kill them. Jungle mind games. (Obviously only if they're comfortable enough to stay, don't waste time if they pill out or hide behind their tower.) (edit.. also I should point out that you should save your cds if you're not positive you'll get the kill. generally people will blow their cds to escape the first time you show up then the second time you have yours and they don't.)
Also if you ever get a team that can't win/doesn't help a level 1 fight at your golem or whatever just immediately go run over to theirs. I see a lot of people get all sad and start at another spot on their side and just give up. Fuck that noise, get a golem.
Bonus tip: try to hate yourself as much as possible because you really need a strong sense of self loathing to kill neutral creeps while everyone else is having fun playing against other people.
I don't even bother reading guides anymore. If there's an awesome build, I just need to see it in action.
once you have some experience, reading guides shows you just how bad someones opponents usually are. if you have a winning record with about 350 wins, you probably have a decent idea of what items are good. you also realize that unless there is an item that is so good on a champ that you get it every game, you will change you build from game to game, as well as your buy order.
the loop back trick is pretty well known though, so usually after you pop out they play crazy conservative - or their jungler is now lying in wait. All a judgement call given the situation though. Sometimes if it's Shen or something, i'll zone them out of creep experiences if the gank fails, since getting your guy a level on them is quite helpful.
Jungling is sort of calming most of the time, plus normally if I don't jungle, no one will.
Well that was fun. First match of the day, I managed to 3v1 in the top lane as Teemo semi-succesfully (4/3) against a Zilean, Ryze and Panth while the rest of my team ran around with their fingers up their asses. Then Sion (the only other competent member of my team) showed up and we pushed top lane like a freight train. Attack Speed Teemo's animation is so fast that he appears to be a crack addict, twitching away while the enemy get bombarded by darts out of nowhere.
the loop back trick is pretty well known though, so usually after you pop out they play crazy conservative - or their jungler is now lying in wait. All a judgement call given the situation though. Sometimes if it's Shen or something, i'll zone them out of creep experiences if the gank fails, since getting your guy a level on them is quite helpful.
Jungling is sort of calming most of the time, plus normally if I don't jungle, no one will.
Hey, when you jungle you don't have to worry about last hitting! Just have to know enough of when to smite golem and dragon so people can't steal it.
I've recently modified my starting Nunu build to include a ward, helps a lot with early ganks from teams that don't have a jungler. People always make fun of me building wriggles on him as a first item, but you can't beat the free ward, and the ability to do dragon solo a level or 2 earlier.
I am guessing from the new champ's design that she has some sort of yin/yang light/dark thing going on, and will have a Nidalee-style skill swap between the two. Maybe between support and offensive mage or something.
Psycho Internet Hawk on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I am guessing from the new champ's design that she has some sort of yin/yang light/dark thing going on, and will have a Nidalee-style skill swap between the two. Maybe between support and offensive mage or something.
Sounds like a reasonable guess based on the name and the look.
Posts
Does the enemy jungler absolutely have to start at the blue golem? This gives you a lot of freedom for trolling.
You can convince your team to gank him if you think you can win a level 1 team fight. Or you can start at the lizard side of his jungle and steal whatever you can get away with.
Or my personal favorite, convincing your team to help kill the wraiths and the lizard, and leaving one little monster alive at both camps. I have had enemy junglers use some very unkind words after discovering that!
You stop when you have gank opportunities. If there is nowhere you should be to kill someone, you keep jungling. This continues until your game shifts into the teamfight phase in which case you are roaming with your team taking towers and killing their team.
There is no definite time, but the basic rule is if you COULD be helping your team or killing someone else. You should not be jungling. If there is no objective for you to take at any given time (or one that is about to become available) Then you go back to jungling.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
thanks for this, and all the other jungling tips guys!
Pretty much this. Although I would suggest that you not press for ganks. By which I mean keep an eye out for a good opportunity but don't waste your time if they're just around the river amount of pushed in and likely to escape a gank. A good route on a fast jungler should allow you to keep up with a solo lane until around level 6ish which is when they start outpacing you for good, so just wasting time on failganks is not productive at all if there are camps you could be clearing.
Basically, gank if it's a high percentage play, don't gank if it's a low percentage play. It just takes experience and developing good instincts to know when's a good time to gank.
Have some fucking balls
Sorry you all pushed your lanes too hard.
I actually prefer to play a really reactive, counter-aggressive style of jungler. If they're pushing hard I'm going to punish the shit out of them, if they try to tower dive one of my laners they're going to pay, if the enemy jungler tries to gank he's getting counterganked. I look for plays where I catch them committed to an aggressive action then flip it around on them by appearing where I'm not expected.
Some games (where the enemy team is playing very passive and not making aggressive moves I can punish) this means I rarely "gank" in the traditional hide in brush then pop out to disrupt a lane sense; in these games I'll focus strongly on controlling dragon and keeping my jungle clear. (The controlling dragon part is key, of course.)
Granted, a more gank-centric jungler than my Warwick--Rammus for instance--can press ganks and have it work, he can nail you an inch outside of tower range and kill you with a good taunt. In that case you probably want to go for a more aggressive style of play. (And I do, when I play Rammus; I'll do really annoying shit like camp one solo lane and gank them three times in a row in a short period, until they finally die to it.)
As an example in my last game the enemy didn't have a jungle, I was WW, we had Malphite top and the enemy had Janna and Shen. Janna was half HP and low mana so I waited for them to push tower ran in (level 3 or 4 I forget) and janna ghosts, shen exhausts me and they both ran for their tower. I couldn't have killed them but I did make them blow summoners and buy top some breathing room.
If you're waiting for camps to spawn and you don't need to buy - attempt a gank or kill something of theirs. At the very least you'll get them to blow their summoners and B.
Then the enemy team gets eager as I start leaving myself in bad positions that they think they can capitalize on and WHAM, jungler comes barreling out of a bush and it's a gank/double kill.
Works especially well since I've been playing Annie as I can just Shield/stun/combo to give the jungler enough time to close the distance and get a redbuff hit off or two.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Not necessarily. Lanes playing passively and safely can make it impossible to close the distance before they achieve tower range. Especially if they buy wards. Often if you do this all you'll get is a minute or two wasted which you could have spent buying, dropping wards, whatever (something useful).
At my Elo it's rare to catch somebody just camping out near the enemy tower unless they have strong ward sight (in which case they'll back off when you approach). They commit to an aggressive action for a short time then retreat and resume playing passively and safely. The key is to catch them in the act of aggression and punish them for it.
There have been so many times where I've bluffed and chased after someone that I knew I wouldn't be able to kill and they would blow one or both of their summoner spells to get away.
It's definitely worth trying if you don't have anything else to do.
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna buy her, but I've no clue how I'm going to fit her into my stable. Still gotta get more time on Renekton when I can, but I've been doing mostly Ranked recently, so I've only gone to my go-to heroes.
Not a clue. Honestly her design could go a bunch of different ways. I could see her being a support caster, or using those fans as some sort of ranged assassin type weapon. The clothing doesn't seem to lend itself to high mobility though so probably not a very mobile assassin. They could go tanky with her and use the fans as some sort of shielding mechanic?
Who knows.
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Yes, I agree fully. Aggressive play = pull out of jungle cycle and punish. During a normal cycle where there is no aggression, if you don't need to buy or drop wards, and there's not more than 2 creep camps spawned - pressure a lane. At the very least it will force them to do SOMETHING, which hopefully forces them out of their rotation/cuts down on EXP/gold. You are sacrificing nothing, as the only option you have is a risky play into their jungle, whereas they sacrifice something (provided you and their jungler aren't on the same timings).
It also messes with some people's rhythm, which is all you need to catch them a few minutes later with the pants down.
Like Shaco in the beginning
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She can do both as far as I know, and from what I have seen she can be played at high ELOs but I think Xin is usually the better pick.
I was thinking, why isn't there a list of champion guides in the OP? I mean there are sites like mobafire, but the guides for the most part suck. I bookmark posts in the thread on champion guides, and from high ELO players (reginald, doublelift) wherever I find them.
Because originally someone was collecting all of our guides from the forum and compiling them into a database. Not sure what happened with that though.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
"Was cursing, in broken english at his team, and at our team. made fun of dead family members and mentioned he had sex with a dog."
"Hope he dies tbh but a ban would do."
The advice here is different, not necessarily bad. And I've found some amazing advice here that's helped me quite a bit.
So.... Opinions and all that.
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
The other day our midrelia beat a kassadin, though I can't really comment on his skill level since we were owning the sidelanes as well and rolled in teamfights
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
But then you pop out of the bushes again and kill them. Jungle mind games. (Obviously only if they're comfortable enough to stay, don't waste time if they pill out or hide behind their tower.) (edit.. also I should point out that you should save your cds if you're not positive you'll get the kill. generally people will blow their cds to escape the first time you show up then the second time you have yours and they don't.)
Also if you ever get a team that can't win/doesn't help a level 1 fight at your golem or whatever just immediately go run over to theirs. I see a lot of people get all sad and start at another spot on their side and just give up. Fuck that noise, get a golem.
Bonus tip: try to hate yourself as much as possible because you really need a strong sense of self loathing to kill neutral creeps while everyone else is having fun playing against other people.
once you have some experience, reading guides shows you just how bad someones opponents usually are. if you have a winning record with about 350 wins, you probably have a decent idea of what items are good. you also realize that unless there is an item that is so good on a champ that you get it every game, you will change you build from game to game, as well as your buy order.
Jungling is sort of calming most of the time, plus normally if I don't jungle, no one will.
Final Score: 9/5/1. Match went barely 20 minutes.
Hey, when you jungle you don't have to worry about last hitting! Just have to know enough of when to smite golem and dragon so people can't steal it.
I've recently modified my starting Nunu build to include a ward, helps a lot with early ganks from teams that don't have a jungler. People always make fun of me building wriggles on him as a first item, but you can't beat the free ward, and the ability to do dragon solo a level or 2 earlier.
TANK
Sounds like a reasonable guess based on the name and the look.
Design is saved by removing 50% of her intestines to keep waist size down.