What you NEED is a team that works well together. Oftentimes this is achieved by having a Ranged Carry, Tank, Support, AP Burst, and Tough Jungler/Anti carry. But this is NOT required.
This is NOT an MMO or RPG, you don't NEED the Holy trinity (Dps/Tank/Support) You are taking on real people and you can use the skills you have and many many many champion combinations to destroy them.
This is not directed at any particular person btw, I've just observed that people are fixated on this concept and it is somewhat silly. People like to blame the team comp a lot for losses because they didn't have a (Tank/Support/Jungler) it is a good team comp to be sure, but you can make a lot of team comps work.
I would much prefer people to experiment with various compositions than to continually pigeonhole themselves into the same thing over and over.
Delphinidaes on
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What you NEED is a team that works well together. Oftentimes this is achieved by having a Ranged Carry, Tank, Support, AP Burst, and Tough Jungler/Anti carry. But this is NOT required.
This is NOT an MMO or RPG, you don't NEED the Holy trinity (Dps/Tank/Support) You are taking on real people and you can use the skills you have and many many many champion combinations to destroy them.
This is not directed at any particular person btw, I've just observed that people are fixated on this concept and it is somewhat silly. People like to blame the team comp a lot for losses because they didn't have a (Tank/Support/Jungler) it is a good team comp to be sure, but you can make a lot of team comps work.
I would much prefer people to experiment with various compositions than to continually pigeonhole themselves into the same thing over and over.
I actually dont even think its champions that win a game, its the people playing them. Anytime my team actually talks and communicates, we more than likely will win. People that listen, ping places, call mia, move as a unit, win games.
The times where people don't talk or help each other, is more than likely a loss (from my experience)
The other team had GREAT initiators (Xin, Sion), but we always caught them in places they didnt want to be in, or they tried to fight be our towers.
I agree on the fact that you don't need all specific roles filled to win games.
However, having someone initiate and soak damage whilst everyone else murders thier team is extremely useful.
Although watching a full health mondo melt because all 5 team members pump out so much damage is just hilarious ....
My game last night was like this, everyone chooses, I realize we're looking pretty squishy, figure I'm going to have to go tank build on nunu. Get into game the enemy team starts in.."hey guys...they don't have a tank, you're all so squishy!" And then we completely roll them.
Was a strange game though, our Lux was just raging in chat about how awful our team was and "fuck you guys, no help at all!" By the end we figured out that he was pissed because he didn't get to finish his build and stomp people, due to him figuring he do 1v5's and not die. Game's stats show up and he's still complaining, I look at his build and it's shit (Who doesn't buy CD boots on Lux right now?), CS...also shit. This community I swear.
If there is one thing I cannot stand. It is people complaining when they win. It is absurd, it is childish, and it is completely unnecessary. (Complaining in general is unecessary). It doesn't matter who did what, or if someone was completely useless. You won. That fact alone means whatever it is you did worked out in your favor. It doesn't even matter if it was a fluke that you won, you still won.
Delphinidaes on
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0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I like it when people complain when they win; it completes the circle of life.
surrealitycheck on
0
MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
You know, something I've run into lately in SoloQQ is odd complaining. Like...our team is absolutely DESTROYING the other team and they aren't surrendering so it's like stomping poor little kittens over and over. Yet there's one person on our team who is just rage typing whenever they die, or they perceive a KS or whatever because they are building stacks and not getting them.
I've had a Fiddles, an Akali, and a LeBlanc all do this in individual games over the past week because they've bought occult or soulstealer and kept dying or not gaining stacks fast enough during a game we were obviously winning. It's...weird. Like, who gives a fuck? Just play and stop being retarded.
E: Maybe it's the kiddie WoW mentality? I'm not getting PURPLES, I hate all of you!!!
You know, something I've run into lately in SoloQQ is odd complaining. Like...our team is absolutely DESTROYING the other team and they aren't surrendering so it's like stomping poor little kittens over and over. Yet there's one person on our team who is just rage typing whenever they die, or they perceive a KS or whatever because they are building stacks and not getting them.
I've had a Fiddles, an Akali, and a LeBlanc all do this in individual games over the past week because they've bought occult or soulstealer and kept dying or not gaining stacks fast enough during a game we were obviously winning. It's...weird. Like, who gives a fuck? Just play and stop being retarded.
That was the Lux in my game to a T. It was bizarre. It was just a sub 30 Normal game too..all I could think is dude reallllllly needs to chill out. I'm pretty sure dude was just pissed he was doing to the worst on our team...but he was also playing pretty stupidly so it wasn't like it should have been a surprise.
I don't even bother reading guides anymore. If there's an awesome build, I just need to see it in action.
once you have some experience, reading guides shows you just how bad someones opponents usually are. if you have a winning record with about 350 wins, you probably have a decent idea of what items are good. you also realize that unless there is an item that is so good on a champ that you get it every game, you will change you build from game to game, as well as your buy order.
I disagree completely, this is a misconception from bad guides. I mean at high ELO there is pretty much a standard item build for the champions, obviously a lot is situational but the most important part of a guide is how to play them champion. Take a loot a this guide for a perfect example. Everyone knows that after you grab as blitz you should knock them up for a longer disable, well he goes into much greater detail on how to play blitz, how and when to grab. It is perfect if you are trying to get good with the champion. There are things here that would take a lot of time with blitz to learn but he just tells you.
If there is one thing I cannot stand. It is people complaining when they win. It is absurd, it is childish, and it is completely unnecessary. (Complaining in general is unecessary). It doesn't matter who did what, or if someone was completely useless. You won. That fact alone means whatever it is you did worked out in your favor. It doesn't even matter if it was a fluke that you won, you still won.
Winning when the other team is down a person always feel wrong
What you NEED is a team that works well together. Oftentimes this is achieved by having a Ranged Carry, Tank, Support, AP Burst, and Tough Jungler/Anti carry. But this is NOT required.
This is NOT an MMO or RPG, you don't NEED the Holy trinity (Dps/Tank/Support) You are taking on real people and you can use the skills you have and many many many champion combinations to destroy them.
This is not directed at any particular person btw, I've just observed that people are fixated on this concept and it is somewhat silly. People like to blame the team comp a lot for losses because they didn't have a (Tank/Support/Jungler) it is a good team comp to be sure, but you can make a lot of team comps work.
I would much prefer people to experiment with various compositions than to continually pigeonhole themselves into the same thing over and over.
I only half agree. You can make up for deficiencies, or build around a specific strategy, but not having a jungler, for example, is a disadvantage unless you specifically build around not having one. If your Taric / Sion burns down their lane opponents, fine, you actually are better off now, but OTOH, if no one does unusually well / poorly during laning, you could have done yourself a favor by having a jungler.
Same for the other items. Anything works when very well executed, but only some stuff works well executed averagely with a handful of mistakes. I've seen a MF go like 13/0 by 25 minutes, and at that point, her team comp is purely perfunctory, but OTOH, if she was 2/0, well, then other stuff matters (she was on the opponent team QQ).
I sometimes complain when I win. Sometimes I just don't feel my team deserved the win, be it because they were mouth breathers or I had to carry them on my back and they somehow went out of their way to make it the worst game ever, or even if the other team is just plain bad, and my team just happens to be not as bad. I've always said it's not about winning with me (outside of ranked of course...), it's about actually having a good game. If I feel the need to rage while even winning, then you know its not a good game.
again, this is for nonranked. in ranked, you can be the biggest asshole moron monkey in the world, as long as I rarely have to see you again while climbin that ladder, but I don't play much ranked anymore...
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
0
MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
I don't even bother reading guides anymore. If there's an awesome build, I just need to see it in action.
once you have some experience, reading guides shows you just how bad someones opponents usually are. if you have a winning record with about 350 wins, you probably have a decent idea of what items are good. you also realize that unless there is an item that is so good on a champ that you get it every game, you will change you build from game to game, as well as your buy order.
I disagree completely, this is a misconception from bad guides. I mean at high ELO there is pretty much a standard item build for the champions, obviously a lot is situational but the most important part of a guide is how to play them champion. Take a loot a this guide for a perfect example. Everyone knows that after you grab as blitz you should knock them up for a longer disable, well he goes into much greater detail on how to play blitz, how and when to grab. It is perfect if you are trying to get good with the champion. There are things here that would take a lot of time with blitz to learn but he just tells you.
How about we just accept everyone's opinions as...opinions. Take away some ideas and mold them into how they fit your play style and then move on.
I'd say a good player knows how to read guides or suggestions, and then incorporate their own flavor to make a direct fit for them. Also to know what changes to make during a match depending on multiple factors during the match.
Also what I believe is a common mis-conception: reading bad strategies is bad. You can always glean something out of information, even if it's poorly written or ill thought out. Heck, maybe some variant of the idea will come to you and you'll build something that DOES work out of the strat. The core of what the person is thinking may be flawed, but the new thought that came from it isn't always.
So like I've said before - don't stop posting your opinions. It's what makes a community evolve and get better. And you're lying if you say you get nothing from the discussions and suggestions here.
E: added a quote for relevance and spoilered for length.
So like I've said before - don't stop posting your opinions. It's what makes a community evolve and get better. And you're lying if you say you get nothing from the discussions and suggestions here.
E: added a quote for relevance and spoilered for length.
Yeah. I tried Shurylia's on Shen after reading about it here, and it's surprisingly good. The small amount of gold that is wasted on mana regen is more than made up by the other stats.
There has been some bad advice here, but there's some really solid advice too.
Yeah, on a jungler like Warwick you need to know when you can get the kills and go for those ganks, not just gank randomly. It helps your team more for you to get farmed than for you to run around not getting kills.
The only exception is if one of the solo lanes is clearly having a lot of trouble. Even a gank that doesn't kill can send the opposing solo healing and buy your guy the breathing room he needs. It's worth missing out on a bit of farm if it keeps your solo from getting utterly crushed/zoned.
Although once WW is 6 he should get a gank almost every time his ult is up, same with malphite or even shaco with someone like ashe mid.
Yeah no. Ideally everyone should kill someone everytime their ult is up. Realistically the people you are playing against have a brain and are trying their best not to being a situation where Warwick can gank them. Expecting your Warwick (or anyone) to get a gank every time his ult is up is a bit absurd.
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
My apologies to those I afk'd with earlier. The soft tip of my earbud came out and started working itself up my ear canal. Had to get it out before it moved any further.
Along the same lines of Shurelya's (speed relative to enemy champions) I've been thinking of switching it up and getting Frozen Mallet on Shen after Aegis, rather than Warmog's.
It seems like it would have a nice synergy with the movespeed quints I run on Shen.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
0
MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
Along the same lines of Shurelya's (speed relative to enemy champions) I've been thinking of switching it up and getting Frozen Mallet on Shen after Aegis, rather than Warmog's.
It seems like it would have a nice synergy with the movespeed quints I run on Shen.
Along the same lines of Shurelya's (speed relative to enemy champions) I've been thinking of switching it up and getting Frozen Mallet on Shen after Aegis, rather than Warmog's.
I've actually been meaning to try something similar, as you could land a lot of key slows with how much mobility Shadow Dash gives in fights. Probably go something like Boots->Aegis->Negatron->Mallet.
My big problem with Shen when it comes is what to get really late-game, like as a 5th or 6th big item. By that time I usually feel so tanky that death isn't an issue (FoN + Randuins + Aegis + Warmogs or similar), but the effectiveness of his ult-shield drops off and his passive + Q doesn't hit all that hard. I might try something silly like Triforce next game.
Along the same lines of Shurelya's (speed relative to enemy champions) I've been thinking of switching it up and getting Frozen Mallet on Shen after Aegis, rather than Warmog's.
I've actually been meaning to try something similar, as you could land a lot of key slows with how much mobility Shadow Dash gives in fights. Probably go something like Boots->Aegis->Negatron->Mallet.
My big problem with Shen when it comes is what to get really late-game, like as a 5th or 6th big item. By that time I usually feel so tanky that death isn't an issue (FoN + Randuins + Aegis + Warmogs or similar), but the effectiveness of his ult-shield drops off and his passive + Q doesn't hit all that hard. I might try something silly like Triforce next game.
Teehee. A Triforce isn't silly at all. It's actually the best DPS item for Shen if you already have your tank gear. I much prefer a Sunfire over the Aegis because it's a more direct buff towards Shen's HP and armor. Not to mention it helps you farm a whole lot better. Make sure that the Sheen is the part of the Triforce you purchase first. It makes you a bursting god. It's like having another Ki Strike for half the cooldown. I'm still debating whether I want to post a guide to my build or not...
Does anyone know of a solid guide that shows the amount of damage Smite does to Dragon/Baron at each level? I've been missing a lot of smites going by guesswork and it would be nice to have hard numbers.
Posts
nope deathcap sona all the way
Picks in order:
Irelia
Crock-dude
Zilean
some one else
and then I picked Lux
Then after all of that they say "what, we have no tank!" and blame me. I told them "why didnt you pick a tank then" and no one answered.
Then after that the team was cool. Irelia and Croc-dude agreed to build kinda tanky after Zilean talked them into it. Worked well
We fought: Sion, Xin, Sivir, and 2 other champs.
We won and they only got 1 tower the whole time. Dont mess with zilean and lux in a lane, u be screwed!
You don't NEED a Tank.
You don't NEED a Jungler.
You don't NEED a Support.
What you NEED is a team that works well together. Oftentimes this is achieved by having a Ranged Carry, Tank, Support, AP Burst, and Tough Jungler/Anti carry. But this is NOT required.
This is NOT an MMO or RPG, you don't NEED the Holy trinity (Dps/Tank/Support) You are taking on real people and you can use the skills you have and many many many champion combinations to destroy them.
This is not directed at any particular person btw, I've just observed that people are fixated on this concept and it is somewhat silly. People like to blame the team comp a lot for losses because they didn't have a (Tank/Support/Jungler) it is a good team comp to be sure, but you can make a lot of team comps work.
I would much prefer people to experiment with various compositions than to continually pigeonhole themselves into the same thing over and over.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
However, having someone initiate and soak damage whilst everyone else murders thier team is extremely useful.
Although watching a full health mondo melt because all 5 team members pump out so much damage is just hilarious ....
Sion+Taric all the way baby.
I actually dont even think its champions that win a game, its the people playing them. Anytime my team actually talks and communicates, we more than likely will win. People that listen, ping places, call mia, move as a unit, win games.
The times where people don't talk or help each other, is more than likely a loss (from my experience)
The other team had GREAT initiators (Xin, Sion), but we always caught them in places they didnt want to be in, or they tried to fight be our towers.
The team that talks together, wins together!
My game last night was like this, everyone chooses, I realize we're looking pretty squishy, figure I'm going to have to go tank build on nunu. Get into game the enemy team starts in.."hey guys...they don't have a tank, you're all so squishy!" And then we completely roll them.
Was a strange game though, our Lux was just raging in chat about how awful our team was and "fuck you guys, no help at all!" By the end we figured out that he was pissed because he didn't get to finish his build and stomp people, due to him figuring he do 1v5's and not die. Game's stats show up and he's still complaining, I look at his build and it's shit (Who doesn't buy CD boots on Lux right now?), CS...also shit. This community I swear.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I've had a Fiddles, an Akali, and a LeBlanc all do this in individual games over the past week because they've bought occult or soulstealer and kept dying or not gaining stacks fast enough during a game we were obviously winning. It's...weird. Like, who gives a fuck? Just play and stop being retarded.
E: Maybe it's the kiddie WoW mentality? I'm not getting PURPLES, I hate all of you!!!
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
That was the Lux in my game to a T. It was bizarre. It was just a sub 30 Normal game too..all I could think is dude reallllllly needs to chill out. I'm pretty sure dude was just pissed he was doing to the worst on our team...but he was also playing pretty stupidly so it wasn't like it should have been a surprise.
Edit: Also, defile, wait to get focused, zhonya, ult, is just ridiculous if you have over 500ap. Too bad he's really not fun to play.
I disagree completely, this is a misconception from bad guides. I mean at high ELO there is pretty much a standard item build for the champions, obviously a lot is situational but the most important part of a guide is how to play them champion. Take a loot a this guide for a perfect example. Everyone knows that after you grab as blitz you should knock them up for a longer disable, well he goes into much greater detail on how to play blitz, how and when to grab. It is perfect if you are trying to get good with the champion. There are things here that would take a lot of time with blitz to learn but he just tells you.
Winning when the other team is down a person always feel wrong
But I love feeling wrong.
Oh man what?
Karthus is god damn hilarious to play.
I only half agree. You can make up for deficiencies, or build around a specific strategy, but not having a jungler, for example, is a disadvantage unless you specifically build around not having one. If your Taric / Sion burns down their lane opponents, fine, you actually are better off now, but OTOH, if no one does unusually well / poorly during laning, you could have done yourself a favor by having a jungler.
Same for the other items. Anything works when very well executed, but only some stuff works well executed averagely with a handful of mistakes. I've seen a MF go like 13/0 by 25 minutes, and at that point, her team comp is purely perfunctory, but OTOH, if she was 2/0, well, then other stuff matters (she was on the opponent team QQ).
again, this is for nonranked. in ranked, you can be the biggest asshole moron monkey in the world, as long as I rarely have to see you again while climbin that ladder, but I don't play much ranked anymore...
I'm dead serious."
How about we just accept everyone's opinions as...opinions. Take away some ideas and mold them into how they fit your play style and then move on.
I'd say a good player knows how to read guides or suggestions, and then incorporate their own flavor to make a direct fit for them. Also to know what changes to make during a match depending on multiple factors during the match.
Also what I believe is a common mis-conception: reading bad strategies is bad. You can always glean something out of information, even if it's poorly written or ill thought out. Heck, maybe some variant of the idea will come to you and you'll build something that DOES work out of the strat. The core of what the person is thinking may be flawed, but the new thought that came from it isn't always.
So like I've said before - don't stop posting your opinions. It's what makes a community evolve and get better. And you're lying if you say you get nothing from the discussions and suggestions here.
E: added a quote for relevance and spoilered for length.
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
Yeah. I tried Shurylia's on Shen after reading about it here, and it's surprisingly good. The small amount of gold that is wasted on mana regen is more than made up by the other stats.
There has been some bad advice here, but there's some really solid advice too.
The only exception is if one of the solo lanes is clearly having a lot of trouble. Even a gank that doesn't kill can send the opposing solo healing and buy your guy the breathing room he needs. It's worth missing out on a bit of farm if it keeps your solo from getting utterly crushed/zoned.
Aye, there has been both. Also some of the bad advice has been mine
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
Yeah no. Ideally everyone should kill someone everytime their ult is up. Realistically the people you are playing against have a brain and are trying their best not to being a situation where Warwick can gank them. Expecting your Warwick (or anyone) to get a gank every time his ult is up is a bit absurd.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
It seems like it would have a nice synergy with the movespeed quints I run on Shen.
You can't escape the ninja!
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
I've actually been meaning to try something similar, as you could land a lot of key slows with how much mobility Shadow Dash gives in fights. Probably go something like Boots->Aegis->Negatron->Mallet.
My big problem with Shen when it comes is what to get really late-game, like as a 5th or 6th big item. By that time I usually feel so tanky that death isn't an issue (FoN + Randuins + Aegis + Warmogs or similar), but the effectiveness of his ult-shield drops off and his passive + Q doesn't hit all that hard. I might try something silly like Triforce next game.
Was Nasus and had to solo against a Mundo. Oh god so agressive ... He murdered me twice under my own tower without trying.
Speaking of, shall have to buy him at some point, would be a good pick for soloing.
Yeah, I aint diggin' this Riot.
Teehee. A Triforce isn't silly at all. It's actually the best DPS item for Shen if you already have your tank gear. I much prefer a Sunfire over the Aegis because it's a more direct buff towards Shen's HP and armor. Not to mention it helps you farm a whole lot better. Make sure that the Sheen is the part of the Triforce you purchase first. It makes you a bursting god. It's like having another Ki Strike for half the cooldown. I'm still debating whether I want to post a guide to my build or not...
It could just be a strait copy of Soul Keeper's Ult from DotA.
Maybe it will be some sort of stacking passive.
I'd love some more creative heroes artistically then we've been getting. More stuff like Trundle and less Scantily Clad Woman v23 please
I'm dead serious."
need more nonhumans
more things like renekton
even though you can argue how good he is and all that, he looks bossly