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The State of the Middle East [Talking 'dominos]

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Posts

  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I can't decide whether Egypt blowing up is a good thing or a bad thing. If the current President gets knocked out, what are the alternative options?

    WMain00 on
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I hope Mubarak's regime falls. He's a thug, and it is high time that the Egyptian people get the government they deserve.

    programjunkie on
  • apricotmuffinsapricotmuffins Angry Bee Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    so are any of you watching the goings on? Its absolutely astounding. Theres far more protesters than police. It looks like they may actually achieve something.

    Al jazeera loves the word unprecedented. all their reporters sound shocked and in awe.

    apricotmuffins on
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Here's Al-Jazeera's live stream: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

    Lots of protesters on a bridge, the riot police keep pushing them off, then they return.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • MachismoMachismo Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    WMain00 wrote: »
    I can't decide whether Egypt blowing up is a good thing or a bad thing. If the current President gets knocked out, what are the alternative options?

    Just be worried if the Muslim Brotherhood comes to power. They claim to condemn the 9/11 attacks and acts of terror (good for the West), but their entire goal is to force society, family, and state to look to the Qu'ran and such as the sole reference point.

    Pretty much the kind of right-wing assholes that oppose freedom.

    Basically, Iran 2.0

    Machismo on
    steam_sig.png
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Al-Jazeera's reporting that they've seen at least 6 riot vans on fire. Protesters are outnumbering the police and in some cases have been jumping the vans as they show up, pulling out the police and taking their riot gear away. Some protesters are also picking up the tear gas cannisters thrown at them and throwing them back at the police (who don't seem to have their own gas masks).

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Worst case, we're looking at another Islamic Republic hostile to the United States. I like to think this wouldn't happen in a country as developed and communications equipped as Egypt.

    And thank you, Al Jazeera English, for the livestream.

    enc0re on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So there's a lot of rock throwing by protesters being shown. How come they don't use Molotov cocktails like in Western countries? Is it considered too violent?

    enc0re on
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    enc0re wrote: »
    Worst case, we're looking at another Islamic Republic hostile to the United States. I like to this wouldn't happen in a country as developed and communications equipped as Egypt.

    That's pretty much the only case, in fact. Peaceful democratic regimes do not arise from street riots.

    I guess we could get lucky and have another secular thug take power and maintain the status quo. But it's either status quo or downhill.

    Richy on
    sig.gif
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    enc0re wrote: »
    So there's a lot of rock throwing by protesters being shown. How come they don't use Molotov cocktails like in Western countries? Is it considered too violent?

    Watching the livestream on Al-Jazera, crazy stuff. They gave up tipping that armored car and set it on fire instead. Did they loot guns in it? Some people near it seemed to have automatics and teargas launchers when I started the stream.

    Demiurge on
    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Machismo wrote: »
    WMain00 wrote: »
    I can't decide whether Egypt blowing up is a good thing or a bad thing. If the current President gets knocked out, what are the alternative options?

    Just be worried if the Muslim Brotherhood comes to power. They claim to condemn the 9/11 attacks and acts of terror (good for the West), but their entire goal is to force society, family, and state to look to the Qu'ran and such as the sole reference point.

    Pretty much the kind of right-wing assholes that oppose freedom.

    Basically, Iran 2.0

    I'm quite worried about that as well, but OTOH, well, they already have a right wing asshole who opposes freedom.
    enc0re wrote: »
    So there's a lot of rock throwing by protesters being shown. How come they don't use Molotov cocktails like in Western countries? Is it considered too violent?

    They do to some extent, hence the burning armored police vehicles. That said rocks are easier on the budget for the 25% unemployment rate youth.

    programjunkie on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    graph.jpg

    Ego hit it right on the head;

    Ominous.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Worst case, we're looking at another Islamic Republic hostile to the United States. I like to this wouldn't happen in a country as developed and communications equipped as Egypt.

    That's pretty much the only case, in fact. Peaceful democratic regimes do not arise from street riots.

    I guess we could get lucky and have another secular thug take power and maintain the status quo. But it's either status quo or downhill.

    I think that's overly simplistic. Many democracies had violent beginnings.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Army has shown up in Cairo. Protesters are riding the Army vehicles, Army doing nothing to stop them at this point.

    For what it's worth, Al Jazeera said that the Army is practically revered by the civilians of Egypt.

    Edit: It's "alledgedly" the Army, no strong confirmation yet.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Al-Jazeera on the Suez situation: At least one protester killed by police, 1 police station "taken over" (not clear on this), another set on fire.

    Edit: Police forces have almost completely in Alexandria.

    Here's the possible Army vehicle seen:

    Spoilered for biggish
    cDuxF.jpg

    The riot police v. civilians on the bridge is just back and forth back and forth. Same as before ... Riot police run on the bridge, fire off tear gas, run back off the bridge, civilians retreat, civilians run back up, grab tear gas, throw it back at police controlled section of the bridge. Repeat. The police look pretty disorganized.

    Christ, now the police are throwing rocks.

    Government has ordered a curfew, but I don't see how the hell they're gonna enforce that.

    Protesters have taken the bridge; some protesters are making the other protesters stop throwing rocks at the police. It's prayer time, protesters are trying to assemble for prayer and the police don't seem to be attacking them. There's a policeman off the bridge who's definitely injured.

    State security has entered the building the Al Jazeera reporters are broadcasting from.

    Riot police are giving the protesters a wide berth to do their evening prayers, though they're less than 50 feet away. I don't think the riot police's heart is in it anymore, but that's just a gut feeling from their body language.

    No update on the state security entering the building, except that they have shields and batons.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • CheezyCheezy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Worst case, we're looking at another Islamic Republic hostile to the United States. I like to this wouldn't happen in a country as developed and communications equipped as Egypt.

    That's pretty much the only case, in fact. Peaceful democratic regimes do not arise from street riots.

    I guess we could get lucky and have another secular thug take power and maintain the status quo. But it's either status quo or downhill.

    Yes, they do.

    Or we could get lucky and let the people who live in the region determine their own futures.

    Cheezy on
  • CheezyCheezy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    "State security is entering the building that we are broadcasting."

    Cheezy on
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Waiting to see what happens when the evening prayers end.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Worst case, we're looking at another Islamic Republic hostile to the United States. I like to this wouldn't happen in a country as developed and communications equipped as Egypt.

    That's pretty much the only case, in fact. Peaceful democratic regimes do not arise from street riots.

    I guess we could get lucky and have another secular ?thug take power and maintain the status quo. But it's either status quo or downhill.
    You need to elaborate. Honestly, I found no way to express my bafflement without turning berating, so for the love of all that is good on the internet, clarify.


    Also, I'd like to reiteriate my previous comments on the lack of perfection in all democracies. It is pretty fucking rich to sit here and decry what a theoretical future democracy might or might not implement in the accordance of the will of it's people, while living in the nations we live in, with our respective histories of mistakes and errors.

    Calixtus on
    -This message was deviously brought to you by:
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    That is a LOT of police trucks. I count at least 20 so far.

    Demiurge on
    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah. Democracy is an inherent good. All this "dictators for their own good" bullshit is just neo-colonialist, imperialist crap.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Al-Jazeera reporter says no one has approached them yet. They'll broadcast as long as possible. They've closed their offices however.

    There's at least 20, probably more, new police vans that have just showed up, no one's disembarked yet.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    88% of Egypt has no internet access right now.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Yeah. Democracy is an inherent good.

    This is way too broad a statement to hold any truth.

    Populism is nothing but pure democracy, and populism is terrible.

    Atomika on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    And with the day over, protesters and police are shaking hands.

    Classy people those Egyptians.

    enc0re on
  • apricotmuffinsapricotmuffins Angry Bee Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    so apparently theres an imposed curfew 6pm local time


    good luck with that


    what the fuck are they PLANNING O_o

    apricotmuffins on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Yeah. Democracy is an inherent good.

    This is way too broad a statement to hold any truth.

    Populism is nothing but pure democracy, and populism is terrible.

    Even tyranny of the majority is better than actual tyranny.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Scare at Al-Jazeera's location, they were just alerted that the police are on their way up.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates
    3.43pm: Egyptian state TV says Mubarak has asked the army to take charge of security alongside the police. Looks like that is how he intends to impose the curfew, due to start in about 15 minutes.

    Protesters aren't going anywhere, very close to the riot police, but no violence yet.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited January 2011
    enc0re wrote: »
    And with the day over, protesters and police are shaking hands.

    Classy people those Egyptians.

    What was the final score?

    Tiger Burning on
    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • SparvySparvy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Yeah. Democracy is an inherent good.

    This is way too broad a statement to hold any truth.

    Populism is nothing but pure democracy, and populism is terrible.

    Even tyranny of the majority is better than actual tyranny.

    Doesn't make tyranny of the majority inherently good

    Sparvy on
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Al-Jazeera's pulled the camera inside the building, I guess to make it more difficult to spot. View isn't as good now, but they're still reporting.

    "No indication that the police have the situation under control."

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I think someone just tossed some molotovs.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So the Egyptian government hasn't issued a media blackout?

    Henroid on
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    And AJ's back to focusing on the bridge again, camera's back outside.

    Army vehicles are showing up at the bridge on the underpasses.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah those are APCs of some kind, pretty sure.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    President has ordered Army onto the streets to enforce the curfew. Hearing more tear gas cannisters being fired. Curfew begins in just a couple of minutes.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm surprised the military isn't staying out of this.

    enc0re on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    President has ordered Army onto the streets to enforce the curfew. Hearing more tear gas cannisters being fired. Curfew begins in just a couple of minutes.

    What time is it over there?

    Henroid on
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    enc0re wrote: »
    I'm surprised the military isn't staying out of this.

    They've shown up, but AJ hasn't shown any activity from them outside of that.

    Oh wait, civilians are surrounding one of the troop carriers, military personel are pouring out

    Holy shit, they're shaking the carrier.

    Edit: It's just a little after 6 pm.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
This discussion has been closed.