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Business vs friendship
koconutmonkey
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I have a friend that runs a game store. As a member of the community for 10 years, I have seen this store go from epic awesomeness to its current state of complacency. It pains me to say, but I know that I could come into town and do it better, as I have run a store in the past. The problem is that the guy is a friend. At what point do I stop complaining to him about things and take it into my own hands?
The latest example that bugged me is this. He gets new models into the store a month early, for display copies. The model is a new space marine flying transport, which equals tons of freaking money in this hobby. Its like a new halo game, it prints money. I only knew the model was coming next month because I have another friend running a store a few hundred miles away and he posted on monday about it on his facebook page.
So friday comes around and I go to the store. The employee is painting elf models from 4 months ago while the brand spanking new awesome model is sitting on the counter. Wow. Meanwhile I look on my friends facebook page and the model is already built and posted on his page...
This is just one of the many examples of what I think is not going well with the place. I have tried to get in there and help, but the guy has a hard time letting go of any kind of power. It is hard to even clean the game room of anything but what is in the garbage for fear of pissing him off for throwing something away that shouldnt have, like broken terrain from 15 years ago....
I have the ability to run, and get investors, a better store. I know its not easy, but I know it can be done better. Do I wait for the store to go under, which after 25 years, its starting to look like it might in the next few years? I am done talking to him about fixing things, since he wont listen.
The latest example that bugged me is this. He gets new models into the store a month early, for display copies. The model is a new space marine flying transport, which equals tons of freaking money in this hobby. Its like a new halo game, it prints money. I only knew the model was coming next month because I have another friend running a store a few hundred miles away and he posted on monday about it on his facebook page.
So friday comes around and I go to the store. The employee is painting elf models from 4 months ago while the brand spanking new awesome model is sitting on the counter. Wow. Meanwhile I look on my friends facebook page and the model is already built and posted on his page...
This is just one of the many examples of what I think is not going well with the place. I have tried to get in there and help, but the guy has a hard time letting go of any kind of power. It is hard to even clean the game room of anything but what is in the garbage for fear of pissing him off for throwing something away that shouldnt have, like broken terrain from 15 years ago....
I have the ability to run, and get investors, a better store. I know its not easy, but I know it can be done better. Do I wait for the store to go under, which after 25 years, its starting to look like it might in the next few years? I am done talking to him about fixing things, since he wont listen.
Time to roll the dice.
koconutmonkey on
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I'm not really sure how you think a painted model is supposed to bring in revenue...?
Money talks, offer to buy a % of the business.
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
If it's the first and you really have the resources and drive for it, go ahead but realize that he's got 25 years on you, and probably a good few loyal customers.
If it's the second, don't be a jerk. If he won't listen to you you can find other places to buy things you want, but if he's actually your friend and not just some guy with a game store, let it go.
I know there is not a lot of money here, but there is enough for me to live and be happy at it. My goal here is to have a store that feeds the community, not just vampires off of it and complains all the time. I am focused on the community here. I have not moved sooner because of my friend. Overall I would value that gaming community more than his friendship.
He does have loyal customers, but not loyal enough that a store with a solid game room and a steady stream of events couldnt deal with. His store is in a crappy location, no parking, and the game room is a dive. Its only benefit is the fact that its a separate space, so you can actually use it past the bankers hours of the store.
I have seen some of them. I have seen the sales figures and know a lot about how much he pays for rent. I know how many hours he works and how many his employees do. A lot of it is the fact that his hours suck, open 55 hours a week and he is only there for 30 of them.
Just from the way your posts reads it sounds like you've seen your other friend's success and would like to mimic that so that you can make a living while playing warhammer. That's great but its not very practical. I'm not saying it can't be done either, but a lot of these stores go under.
For example at your friend's store, the one which doesn't suck apparently, you say his game rooms are frequently populated. That's swell, but how many of those people actually spend money there? I'm sure plenty do, and I'm sure plenty don't. How big of population in this area are we talking about? You say this guy is opening a second location so is it nearby or is it far away? How many of these stores can your population support?
Shogun Streams Vidya
Sounds to me your friend is burnt out and confused about his hobby rather than not wanting to do things. He may not have wanted to paint that marine because he likes elfs. The problem is when you want to make tons of money rather than just money, you'll want to do what others want rather than yourself.
complicated, but the gist of it was a fire, bad insurance and a now exwife all lead to me not reopening. Consequently, this is the same place my friend reopened the store a few years later. I was stoked he could do it, as I was not in a position to do it then. Now I feel like I am at a point I can make it happen.
This is not about wanting to play warhammer all day, its about doing something I love. I loved running the store and events. I could not be there enough. I loved my weeks of the events when I would pull 60 hours. Those 60 hours felt less than my current 10 hours a week do at a job I hate...
The location needs to change, as do the hours and the owner commitment. My friends store is successful because his game room is open good hours, til midnights on weekends, and he has snacks and soda for sale. This typically nets a few dollars per person per day in the store, atleast it did when I was running it.
On the first part, yes I have thought about that, but there is a gap of about 300 miles, which makes management a bit tricky. He is also working on his second store now, so that is something I could broach in the summer probably.
Yeah the guy is burnt out, but he is stubborn. He is not open to selling the place for what its worth, just what he has perceived in value. Over half of his inventory is dead and not sellable, but he still wants full wholesale value for it, for example. Sorry I am not going to pay full wholesale on starship troopers or old heroclix crap.
Shogun Streams Vidya
You want to run a gaming store.
It isn't just the way your friend runs his that rankles you, but that you do not run one anymore.
If you have an investor (be careful with too many investors: too many hands in the pot could be a mess with a small retail operation), and a location, and a business plan, execute it!
Don't worry about the friendship. If this is your dream, take it.
Don't worry about how your friend runs his shop. Offer him some cross-promotional stuff (for example, the two of you can buy advertising together for an event you both contribute to) if you want to maintain the friendship.
Keep in mind that while your hobby isn't the biggest hobby in the world, there is money there, and if you can find a niche/area that your friend doesn't serve as well, both stores can do well.
Make sure to tell your friend you aren't trying to hurt his business, you just really want to run a game business.
Ironically, it sounds like the friend is the one who was caught up in the "I can own a store and play warhammer all day, this is awesome!" and has slowly been facing reality that running a store about something you like is not the same as actually playing the thing you like.
So do it. You did it already and are back on your feet apparently enough to open another store. Talk about buying out your friend or, perhaps, talk to your friend 300 miles away about extending his brand and opening another location of the same store name in your town.
You can tell your friend that you want to buy him out but it sounds like he's actually ruined the brand and location as far as a store is concerned. He has bad hours, a store filled with old junk, and apparently not much focus on the latest stuff. And he apparently isn't interested in selling it to you.
So talk to your friend about how you're serious about re-opening your own store because you're excited about it and you feel that he isn't, and that you don't want to be competitors but you will be, and that it could mean that you would force him to close down. Don't hem and haw -- tell him you are going to open a store and let him respond.
I'm skeptical of how much danger this shop is actually in of closing. 25 years is quite a long time for one of these game stores to stay open. It suggests at least a certain amount of business acumen for that much staying power. But who knows he could be circling the drain. He may also resent someone trying to buy him out for what he may consider a paltry sum compared to the time, money, and personal investment he has made.
Shogun Streams Vidya
The only reason he is till around is his good business sense. He know how to run a business but he has gotten complacent. He is not excited about events like 5 years ago. He sells because people are loyal and he is the only game in town.
I really want tp get back to my own business. The town I currently live in is not the same place I owned a store, but I see the potential. I am going to make one final push to see if I can make an offer on this current store that works for me. If that doesn't work then I am going to set things in motion to start up myself. Thanks for the feedback
Yes its a bit odd. He is 20 years older than me but we hang out once a week for football or drinks. I have helped out run events there so I am a bit elevated beyond a customer but not a super close friend. We share beer and such, but not anything super personal. I know a bit more of his business dealing, but he is a pretty open guy about that.
If you take the friendship element out of the ENTIRE EQUATION the idea of opening a physical location for a game store is not exactly an award winning business concept to begin with. That there is clear competition in the same area just makes it worse.
Now throw in the friendship.
It just doesn't seem like a good idea.
If you have enough money to start an incredibly low-margin business that relies on customer loyalty almost completely to pay the rent, then why not just buy a part of his business?
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
I would disagree on the low margin, as 45% minimum up to 60% on some lines for product. That is not bad.
I will agree that its not going to make money hand over fist, but it will create a lifestyle that I am comfortable with. I would rather work a job I love and live modestly than have a horrible job and have a higher lifestyle.
I have already gone down the road of attempting to buy in or buy out. His expectations for what the business are worth would create a situation where the business would be hard to make money. If I am going to spend captial, its going to be on product and events, not perceived customer loyalty.
If I had been running a place for 25 years, and some young'un kept barking at me to change the way I did business, I would probably think he was completely full of shit. I mean by that point, I would have seen what like 6-7 generations of go-gettin' gamers come and go, every one of them brimming with passion and ideas for a while before that fire just slowly died and they went on to other things.
It would be pretty hard to tell the ones who talk about how glorious everything could be, from the ones who could actually dig in and improve business. Everybody talks in a hobby shop, remarkably few can actually execute. It would take some pretty hefty proof of ability to convince me that buddy wasn't just blowing smoke.
That being said, I like money. Everybody does. If you want to work as staff for a while, I'd probably be willing to see a small wage and go in on some minor changes to see if you're actually capable. Start bringing some people, or rather, the cold hard cash from those people, and I'd probably let you have a bigger leash. With additional funds, there may be more in the budget for sound improvements, and if you've had a decent track record I might just toss you the ball for a while. Let the young lions chase after the gazelles, I'm good gnawing bones in the shade.
But you'd have to show me. After that many years in the business, I'd know the best way to keep what I've got is the slow and steady. Risk is for passionate people, whose elbow grease can make up for all the minor shifts and adjustments. No real call to be the best, when being pretty okay takes a third of the effort and pays all the bills. Still, money is money, might be worth a shot. Worst case, the young'un is extremely enthusiastic with other customers, and that in itself usually brings in a few bucks...
I'm not doubting your abilities, just throwing out some perspective. See if you can figure out where he's coming from, then see what you can do to work with him to realize your dream. Theres only so much of a customer base, and dividing that base, that community you love, is bad for business. Both businesses. It is not only possible, but likely that you might succeed just enough to fuck everyone, including yourself. Building it up is the better choice all around, if you can do it.
I have also gone in and ran events for him. They have crap for attendance because he doesnt promote them. I get signs made, on my dime, and put them up, but I can t get him or his staff to promote them. Of course, he doesnt make any money off the events because the soda machine has been broken for years... Just one of many.
I have thought about going the route of an employee, but right now he only hires young girls, (which is another issue but its not too bad so far) and doesnt have any openings. I would also have to drop a position that has potential. I would be willing to drop the position for owing the place, maybe just not for a p.t position.
I feel that I have a good grasp on what is going on now, but I am not sure its the right time to proceed. I will keep making suggestions and see if I can help the community out. Ill see if I can help him get past the burnout or sellout.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Didn't mean to imply that you were. But he's a full generation up on you, and that gap is going to give you less credit than you may have otherwise.
No money means no incentive. Tourments and community events do trickle down; solid competition invites players to stock up on gear. Meanwhile though, it's got to be made worth his time. Costs covered, a few more bucks on the side. Wouldn't take much, but its got to be there, as is. There's probably a way to make it pay. There always is.
All the best in your future endeavours. Sounds like you know what you want, and thats a pretty big chunk of getting it. Good on ya.
He'd pretty much have to put the other store out of business for his own to succeed. I get the idea that this is a fairly small town that probably can't profitably support 2 tabletop gaming stores.
Do you see him outside the store?
Cause I get the feeling that you guys are more acquantances than friends.
Really if you want to open a gaming store then do it, I see no reason to try and buy out the dude, you'll buy out the place and then be on a shitty location which you yourself have said is rubbish.
Satans..... hints.....
If you really want to open a competitor location in the area, you need to be cutthroat, because what you'll be doing is shooting yourself in the foot for several years so that you can choke the life out of his business and steal his customers. If you've got the capital to survive those thin years while you destroy his dreams and close his business, you can make it around to being the only game shop in town. (At least until someone else opens up and tries to put you out.) Once you've done that, you can dedicate your life to always being in your shop and generally ignoring the aspects of your hobby that you want to participate in, in favor of the ones that generate revenue streams for you.
That said, many people would rather have a job at least tangentially related to things they care about. There will be days when it's just a job to you, and you can barely bring yourself to get out of bed to go deal with customers. At the same time, there's immense satisfaction in owning your own business and proving you're capable of real success. Good luck with that.
He sounds older than you and it doesnt sound like you're hanging at his place for BBQ's.
Do you guys have an actual relationship outside the store? Because it sounds like you're a customer to him. Maybe you're a regular who tries to organize events with the store and increase the atmosphere, but to him you're still a customer...first and foremost.
If you arent close friends, then you are welcome to start your own store. You've got a vision.....get to making a business plan and see if you can turn it into a reality.
Well said. That is the crux of the matter. I know that for a second store to succeed, I will have to shut him down. Some how this town has two comic book stores. It also has a hobby town, but that place is a joke.
It is a situation where there would be bad blood and I am questioning the ability for him to cause issues with customers. I am confident that a good number of people would follow the shiny new digs, but would that be enough.
The ideal situation would be for me to get some of his good inventory and he retires. I would only take over his business if his lease was close to being over, as his location is crap. I would take his store over if the price was right and the lease was over quick, that is it. Otherwise I would have to go up against him. I know I would put out a better product and he would really have to step it up to keep up, however he has the loyalty issue. Im not sure I want to do that yet.
I want to own a game store because I enjoyed it before. The hours were long, the money was meh, but I loved it. I loved running events and getting people together for a good time. I enjoyed the sense of community in all the games I ran, hell even Magic had it working. Not a clubhouse, but a more open place for anyone to show up and play a game. It was a clubhouse that actually welcomed new players. Growth is integral to the success of the place.
I ran a store for awhile that just shut down a year or so ago. It went from awesome to barely breaking even between 2002 and 2010. In fact, the owner got a day job to make up the difference.
Don't do it. You'll just get saddled with debt.
If so, go for it. If not, wait.
Do not make the mistake of assessing your chances against the competition as it is now. You'll have to go up against the competition on the terms he'll be willing and able to achieve.
What you enjoyed before was running a succesful game store. I'm sure you'd still enjoy that, but there's no guarantee of success.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade here. If this is what you really want, go for it. But nostalgia is only a reason to consider an idea, not to go through with it. The latter requires a reasonable, honest chance of succeeding.
Yes I agree. I have seen what he has done in the past, but even then it was not what I think I can do. I do not know for sure, as there are a lot of variables.
The Crowing One: I guess I am basing my optimism on two things. One is the community here. I have seen their hunger for a better store and I see them going elsewhere for product when the local store fails them. Cant please them all, but there might be enough.
Two. I have seen a store grow in my old town in the last year amazingly. He has had a huge success in a town that is similar in size to what I live in now, but with three competitors. I know it can be done. The business is hard, but not gone. Just look at the PR penny arcade has given warmachine lately.
I dont see the total doom and gloom, but its not all sunshine and lollypops. It will not be an easy road, but I think it might be worth trying.
schuss: Yep I am good with failing. I view my past venture as a mix of success and failure. I am willing to try again and fail. Its something I have learned from some of the great business people: Dave Rasmey, Donald Trump, Robert Kiyosaki. They all failed multiple times, but eventually it can work. Not a guarantee, but its worth trying.
brain operator: Yeah there might be some nostalgia going on.