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[FF] The Heroes formerly known as the Fantastic Four

LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
edited July 2011 in Graphic Violence
There hasn't really been a Fantastic Four thread around here for quite some time. Today brings us a fairly momentous occasion in one of Marvel's premiere books so I figured I'd make one to discuss both the big events of today's issue as well as just all things Fantastic Four related in general.

I haven't been following FF for very long. In fact, I only jumped on board with collecting it when I saw that they were going to be killing a member of the team.

That isn't to say I'm not a fan of the series, its just one that I've never bothered to collect until very recently.

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So lets talk about this...

"THREE" as it has been called, is a story arc which is 5 issues in length, issue five having just released today. All along, it has been advertised since the start of this arc that one of the FF is gonna die. Being curious, I've been following the arc since the first issue.

Here is a brief synopsis of issues 1-4 (out of 5) of THREE. COLOR="Orange"]NOTE: SPOILERS[/COLOR
Each of the members of the Fantastic Four have been put in impossible situations. Situations in which any one of them could be the one who dies. Here's a rundown on what's going on:

SUE STORM: She was invited by Namor to attend an undersea summit between Namor and an aquatic species of Old Atlanteans. While at this summit, Namor assassinates the King of the other tribe in an effort to start a war. There is a long history of bad blood here, and Namor wants to wipe them out once and for all. Sue Storm is caught in the middle of this war, trying to act as a mediator and ambassador.

REED RICHARDS: Reed has an encounter with Galactus on Earth. Galactus shows up, upset because he found his own corpse out in space and he wanted to know what was up with that. Apparently, Reed found Galactus's body in the future and brought it to the past and hid it from him in an effort to conceal how he died. Galactus gets angry and decides he's gonna eat a planet. Reed and some other dudes go to try to evacuate the planet while it is being consumed by Galactus.

JOHNNY STORM & BEN GRIMM: Ben (Thing) drinks a potion which restores him to his normal human form for a week. He and Johnny are tasked with taking care of the Baxster Building, the Richards children and the Children of the Future Foundation while Reed and Sue are away. While they are babysitting, an evil insect swarm of bugs called the Annihilus Swarm shows up to devour the earth. Their point of entry is the portal to the negative zone inside the Baxster building. Ben and Johnny have to protect the kids and the whole earth pretty much from an alien invasion and Ben has no super powers.

So that's the lead-up to the final issue.

Now. Before I get into who actually dies, let me say who I wanted to die. I wanted Reed to die. Why? Because his death would have the biggest impact on the rest of the Marvel Universe. Reed is a very important person with his brilliant scientific mind and the relationship he has with all sorts of people (i.e. other heroes and many super powerful galactic beings.) To me, if you're gonna hype up a death in a big team book, I would want the death to have meaning and have an impact. To me, the best choice was Reed Richards.

Who actually died?

SPOILERS
For Real. Spoilers.
JOHNNY STORM

Gotta say. I'm pretty disappointed by this. Out of all 4 that they could have killed, Johnny dying is probably the weakest option in my mind. Johnny isn't nearly as important to the rest of the Marvel Universe. There aren't a lot of important relationships there that make his death very impactful outside of the Fantastic Four book.

Was his death cool? Hell yeah. He went out like a champ. They had to seal the portal to the Negative zone and someone had to stay. He stays behind to insure that the Annihilus swarm doesn't break through to earth, thus saving the life of Ben, the kids, and pretty much the whole world.

But even with as cool as it was, I don't think its gonna be nearly as big of a deal as if one of the other three had died.

Lets talk about this. What do you guys think. Do you agree with my opinion (in the spoiler tag)?

Are we taking bets on how long this death sticks?

Lucascraft on
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Posts

  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User
    edited January 2011
    I haven't read this story yet, but based on your description I have a question
    You say he stayed behind to seal the portal, was he shown dead or did it just cut off with an assumption he would die on the other side? Obviously this matters a big deal in the comics world.

    Also, I am mostly glad it wasn't Sue, violence against women is something too many comic writers seem to jump to.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen All the dinosaurs fear the T-Rex Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If they could go storm Jack Kirby's house last time one of them died, what's stopping them this time? Even if Kirby/God said they can't do it again, this is the FF we're talking about, they can do anything before breakfast.

    (is this going to be the FF thread?)

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Direct answer to your question, kdrudy:
    The final page shows a swarm of bugs all over Johnny and the last words of the issue are "THREE: The final stand of Johnny Storm."

    I guess technically he could be alive because they didn't show the aliens ripping him to shreds. But it was implied that it was gonna happen. These weren't very friendly bugs. Basically, they were the zerg.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yes it is gonna be the FF thread, Tex. I said that in like the 2nd sentence of the OP.

  • TexiKenTexiKen All the dinosaurs fear the T-Rex Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Sorry!

    And I would be surprised if the death lasts beyond FF #600, and would be even more surprised if they don't revert FF to #600 in a year.

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I actually really enjoyed this arc. Hickman's writing is pretty solid. I'm thinking of picking up some trades of the rest of his run on the book.

  • TexiKenTexiKen All the dinosaurs fear the T-Rex Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I enjoyed his first arc with Reed very much, and the Franklin birthday issue minus Val's retarded line. Then there was a some stuff with Millar's nu-earth plotlines that kind of killed the book for me. If they put this whole first act of Hickman's stuff into a nice hardcover/omnibus like Frankencastle, I'd buy it.

    edit: Dark Reign: FF is actually Hickman's first FF stuff, and it was really good. Franklin is the bestest.

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Honestly, Hickman's run has been pretty neat, but also kind of feels like an encyclopedia entry.

    The "death" is really... eh. At least it was a super cool way to go out, but I mean I've read the entire run of this thing. The number of "Deaths" and "gone forevers" and "3s" that I've seen make me not quite care. I'm looking forward to what he does with the aftermath/resurrection.

    And for real, the sooner Nu-Earth is killed/forgotten about the better. Ugh. I was so annoyed he maintained that horrible thing.

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  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Damn that was an awesome way to die... more epic than Capt's "death" (although his death wasn't suppose to be I suppose) and I thought even more epic than Batman's "death".

    And as we all know...
    Johnny will be coming back one day. Although honestly, I think this will be a Thor/Sabretooth situation. He won't be back in a year, prob not even two. No "oh but he's really alive... in the PAST" type situations.

    It's not impossible we'll see him in under a year, but considering how Marvel hyped this up AND considering how he's not an extremely popular character or one that has a huge impact on the world, I think they're in it for a while.

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  • NogsNogs Crap, crap, mega crap. Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    didn't read the books yet but
    dude just has to go nova and he ought to be just fine

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  • GankGank Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Read 587 and loved it.
    But, as someone has said elsewhere in here, for all the media releases and marvel hype over the death of one of the fantastic four you never actually see him bite the dust. It's very much like how DnA killed of Starlord and Nova. You don't see them die, you just see them reeeeeeally close to death.
    I'm praying that they all somehow "come back to life" together.

    Also Thing crying nearly made me cry.

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  • ThaneThane Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Whedonesque ending was good times

    So now what? Fantastic Three relaunch?

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Maybe bring back She-Hulk.

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  • cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I feel like:
    Johnny is in the negative zone, so maybe he's dead trapped there in some supernova form and can be chilling with Nova and Blastar maybe startup some negative zone policing force... I dunno completely unlikely since I don't think they died in the same universes.

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  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Thane wrote: »
    Whedonesque ending was good times

    So now what? Fantastic Three relaunch?

    #588 and then whatever the hell "FF" is going to be.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen All the dinosaurs fear the T-Rex Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    "final issue" teaser:

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    Spider-Man looks like he's going to kidnap Franklin there.

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  • cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If it's going by the name FF, I'm assuming they will have a fourth. Franklin seems most likely, since he has a power set.

    edit:
    Spider-Man will probably talk to him about the whole responsibility schtick and say it's what Johnny would have wanted.

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  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If they're calling it the "final issue," then doesn't that mean they will be changing the title?

  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If they're calling it the "final issue," then doesn't that mean they will be changing the title?

    Have you not seen the solicit for FF #1?

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  • cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Robos may have assumed I was abbreviating vs the fact the ongoing is changing to "FF"

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  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm pretty far behind here, I think the last issue I read was the first of "Three."

    However, I am going to guess that FF now stands for Fantastic Five, and that Franklin and Val will be joining.
    Possibly the time displaced versions?

    Also, I did spoil myself on who died, but I don't know how yet.

    I was hoping
    that it would be Reed, since I believe that's the only death that would drastically alter how the team works and operates.

  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah, I did assume that.

    But FF could stand for Future Foundation or Fantastic Five or Fantastic Family or whatever. It doesn't mean that you need four members.
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    that it would be Reed, since I believe that's the only death that would drastically alter how the team works and operates.

    There was already a story arc about that, though, so I can see why Hickman wouldn't want to go there again.

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah, I did assume that.

    But FF could stand for Future Foundation or Fantastic Five or Fantastic Family or whatever. It doesn't mean that you need four members.
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    that it would be Reed, since I believe that's the only death that would drastically alter how the team works and operates.

    There was already a story arc about that, though, so I can see why Hickman wouldn't want to go there again.

    Partially because it was done twice.

    Mostly because it sucked.

    Interesting to see Alex Power on the potential replacement list. The Power kids always did seem the most likely to do the space explorer universal hero bit for whenever the FF would go into semi-retirement (IE, alternate futures, ect.)

  • MastaPMastaP Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Well, Alex Power has been a cast member for a few arcs now

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    What was the purpose of that scene where Val goes to talk to Doom in Latveria in the first issue of the Three arc? I kept expecting him to show up at some point (probably to stab someone in the back) but he never did.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Oh, that is my only other complaint with the Hickman run: super-intelligent people whose primary trait is "*smugface* I'm super intelligent *smugface*" annoy me all to hell. That dressing-down of scientists/going to start Bold New Learning Experiment bit he did with Reed was just not good even if I get what he was going for.

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  • cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    What was the purpose of that scene where Val goes to talk to Doom in Latveria in the first issue of the Three arc? I kept expecting him to show up at some point (probably to stab someone in the back) but he never did.

    I'm hoping this is used somewhere, I feel like it could have proved to be of better use. Hopefully in 588 we'll see something.

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  • GankGank Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Dooms brain issues have already gotten some mentions in New Avengers and a couple of other marvel titles. I imagine its going to culminate into some sorta mini-event. You know, being Doom n all.

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Doom will steal the silver surfer's brain or something and implant it in his own head

    "Now DOOM has Cosmic Awareness! Now Richards, you will pay!"

    That's just how he rolls

  • Linespider5Linespider5 Eat at Jobe's Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    What's Spider-Man up to these days?
    Couldn't he kind of replace the wise-cracking younger guy role in the Four? He seems pretty tight with those guys anyway.

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  • RingoRingo Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    More to the point, what's Mephisto up to these days? There's a perfectly good marriage to wreck here!

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
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  • TexiKenTexiKen All the dinosaurs fear the T-Rex Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Reed Richards and Peter Parker to fight over Carlie Cooper, Civil War 2.

    (this reminds me of when Sue was jealous of Reed's former girlfriend in a backup during Waid's FF run, catfight)

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  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Doom came out of the World War Hulks/Fall of the Hulks crossover with brain damage - Hickman is just following up on that with the Doom-Valeria stuff. I imagine it'll get a mention in FF#588 or the new FF#1.

    I thought #587 was really well done, and its ambiguous enough that it can be reversed if necessary. The Wrath of Khan moment was a nice touch.

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  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Doom came out of the World War Hulks/Fall of the Hulks crossover with brain damage - Hickman is just following up on that with the Doom-Valeria stuff. I imagine it'll get a mention in FF#588 or the new FF#1.
    The Doom's brain damage stuff has also appeared in New Avengers and X-Factor. Also, Bendis has kept Doom on the radar in his Avengers books for the past several years.

    Like Gank, I also expect this to culminate in a Doom event of some kind.

  • TexiKenTexiKen All the dinosaurs fear the T-Rex Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    FF#1 felt a bit all over the place, kind of hard to put my finger on whether it was good or average.
    Nathaniel Richards is a good character to counter Reed, and the general idea of the Future Foundation is fun. The idea that Doom showing up to be in the group sounds interesting but really, the guy's done so much shit to the family (Franklin alone) that it seems odd for Val to consider it despite being a genius, and it should be mentioned that just because Nathaniel went to the future it means nothing in the context of the Marvel Universe.

    And the prayer scene felt a little too smug, it kind of read like Alex was making fun of all those different religions with a "we're so smart I can't believe these people still believe this stuff" kind of thing. I mean, God exists in the Marvel Universe, and so do other gods, somehow religion is a bit more silly? Not really buying that.

    There was also a two page silhouette spread of the characters on the family/foundation that would have worked better with the full character reveal in distinguishing Mik and Turg and Wu and Vii from one another, if only by the color of their clothes.

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  • Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    In regard to Val and Doom . . .
    She may be bringing him on board to help with her plan of eventually killing Anihillus, which may be the foil that brings back Johnny Storm to the book. Also, why does she call him Uncle Doom? Is it anything to do with him being her first word or is there another connection between Doom and the children that I don't know about? I haven't really followed the FF books.

    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
  • MastaPMastaP Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Doom chose Valeria's name after assisting in her birth.

  • GankGank Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I agree
    about Nathaniel being a good anti Reed, the dinner scene was great and I'm glad that Reed didn't buck at being criticized. And Alex's grace business did seem a tad smug, but I think it was meant to show just how crazy diverse the FF is both genetically and religiously. Didn't help that Alex was drawn smirking the whole time...

    I'm glad the first arc
    is probably going to involve the Wizard and his clone because I've really been enjoying Bentley being part of the Future Foundation. His love of bombs in "Three" was hilarious.
    All in all, I really can't wait for the next issue.

    And, by proxy, the next issue of Hickmans S.H.I.E.L.D. cos I can't get enough Nathaniel.

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  • BlankzillaBlankzilla Peace and Tranquility Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I guess I'm the only one didn't find the grace bit smug at all. We only actually see Alex once during it, and he isn't smiling at all. The only ones who smile are Sue at the end(probably due to how dang weird it was) and Bentley, because he is Bentley.

  • GankGank Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Alrighty, went and re-read FF #1. Alex is kinda smirking in the panel where he agrees to lead in grace but when you see him again he's lookin pretty solemn. And Reeds smiling with Sue, but probably for the same reasons you said. I probably just read it as smarmy cos that's how I woulda said it.

    Also I should probably not care about that so much, seeing as I still enjoyed the issue as a whole.

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