I made a news post that goes into more detail. Hope it helps explain our thought process on this. I appreciate all the comments.
Mike, I already thanked you on Twitter, but I want to thank you again. I totally respect your decision in this matter. Obviously we disagree on some stuff here and there, and I know you're not totally happy about this, but this is the kind of class I expect from you guys and I'm glad to see it.
Themiscyra on
PAX EAST 2011 Omegathon Finalist - PAX East 2012 Omeganaut After time adrift among open stars
Among tides of light and to shoals of dust
I will return to where I began
I made a news post that goes into more detail. Hope it helps explain our thought process on this. I appreciate all the comments.
I'm not sure I quite get the thinking behind that post. I mean, it's great you want your people at PAX to be comfortable, that's what PAX is all about but I can't see how removing this shirt will help. In fact by removing the shirt so close to the convention and causing this big controversy so close to the convention are you not ensuring there will be lots of people wearing the shirt this year? If not the official one then it will be one they made. Had you not removed it only a handful of people would be wearing it, but now that it's a hot button issue people will be flocking to make one before PAX. I was just talking with someone earlier that plans on printing 50-100 dickwolf shirts and giving them away for free at PAX, he would not be doing this if the shirt was not removed. Either way I won't be attending this year because I go there for a video game convention, I don't go to see a three ring circus with a dickwolf in the center ring.
I made a news post that goes into more detail. Hope it helps explain our thought process on this. I appreciate all the comments.
I would also like to thank you for removing the shirt.
While the debate about the original comic could likely go back and forth constantly, I feel as an above user did that what happened afterward felt like a hasty response.
Among the things I loved about attending PAX East last year were the many friends from around the world with whom I attended. The majority of them were either women or fellow gaymers. We felt welcomed (for the most part--you'll always have an outlier). PAX East seems among the more fan-focused and friendly spaces I've attended, and knowing you wish to continue that tradition makes me look forward to attending again in the future (unfortunately, having just moved back to Europe--that won't be this year).
Also, about the male feminist comparing this to the KKK: he was called out on his behavior, and he did apologize.
VorpalBunny on
"If Igor get big hero job, can he be pyromaniac, too?" -Igor from Quest for Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness
I made a news post that goes into more detail. Hope it helps explain our thought process on this. I appreciate all the comments.
I'm not sure I quite get the thinking behind that post. I mean, it's great you want your people at PAX to be comfortable, that's what PAX is all about but I can't see how removing this shirt will help. In fact by removing the shirt so close to the convention and causing this big controversy so close to the convention are you not ensuring there will be lots of people wearing the shirt this year? If not the official one then it will be one they made. Had you not removed it only a handful of people would be wearing it, but now that it's a hot button issue people will be flocking to make one before PAX. I was just talking with someone earlier that plans on printing 50-100 dickwolf shirts and giving them away for free at PAX, he would not be doing this if the shirt was not removed. Either way I won't be attending this year because I go there for a video game convention, I don't go to see a three ring circus with a dickwolf in the center ring.
Not to mention that, while I understand the thought process behind the post and the action, it seems to clearly send the message that the majority of readers who had a positive or neutral opinion of the merchandise are to be held beholden to the objections of a very few. I think it sets a bad precedent for the future. I don't agree with the decision, but, alas, it was also not my decision to make.
While I respect that you guys are trying to do the right thing, by whatever standards you get evaluated on that, I'm still disappointed that instead of keeping your "we don't care if you don't like it" message consistent the decision was made to pander to a select few that found this upsetting enough that they don't want to support PA, or read the comic, or attend PAX.
No offense, but if you're caught fucking the dog you should probably just ride with it. Pulling out in the middle doesn't make you any less of a dogfucker, it just makes you look silly because you couldn't go through with it to the end.
No offense, but if you're caught fucking the dog you should probably just ride with it. Pulling out in the middle doesn't make you any less of a dogfucker, it just makes you look silly because you couldn't go through with it to the end.
I wanted so badly to write something witty and biting in response to this whole situation, but your statement perfectly encapsulates everything I would have wanted to say.
I love you guys at PA. Hell, I've been an enforcer for a few years now, but this shit is just embarrassing. Get ready for "vocal minorities" to start pounding your door down.
It was a small group of very vocal people. Not tens of thousands by any stretch. More like a couple dozen. BUT they were very upset and taking the shirt down made them happy. I would never remove the strip or apologize for the joke but if not selling the shirt means I don't have to fight with these people I'll do that.
I'm not super happy about it but it was the path of least resistance.
You have done a good thing for traumatized people. Thank you for removing the shirt. Obviously you did so grudgingly, but no one can censor you and you have done it of your own will. That means a lot.
As far as I know, PAX has never had a dress code (beyond 'wear clothes' and 'please shower, will you?') and I'm not sure it's a good idea to start. I could see a general ban on t-shirts carrying profanity and obscene images (which would bar the official shirts, the Survivors' Guild shirts, and likely most of the homemade shirts that weren't heavily coded), particularly as the mass media are taking more notice of the con, but specifically targeting it...probably not going to lead to hugs and puppies.
They're no longer selling shirts with the Official Seal of Approval, and won't have them at the merch booth at the con. It's a corporate gesture that avoids curtailing individual freedom of expression. Is everyone entirely happy with it? No. Not the pro side, not the anti side, not the shut up about it already both of you side. But that's true of most compromises.
Themiscyra on
PAX EAST 2011 Omegathon Finalist - PAX East 2012 Omeganaut After time adrift among open stars
Among tides of light and to shoals of dust
I will return to where I began
No offense, but if you're caught fucking the dog you should probably just ride with it. Pulling out in the middle doesn't make you any less of a dogfucker, it just makes you look silly because you couldn't go through with it to the end.
I wanted so badly to write something witty and biting in response to this whole situation, but your statement perfectly encapsulates everything I would have wanted to say.
I love you guys at PA. Hell, I've been an enforcer for a few years now, but this shit is just embarrassing. Get ready for "vocal minorities" to start pounding your door down.
Jerry said, once, that it's a wheel of misfortune. At some point, it lands on you and you are made to suffer for the amusement of the rest of the wheel.
I think a lot of people are missing that they haven't apologised or taken down the comic. If they had, this conversation of backing down to vocal activists might hold water. But they removed the shirt, which was a heated response to a heated response. It's not the same thing.
Willeth on
@vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming! @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
It was a small group of very vocal people. Not tens of thousands by any stretch. More like a couple dozen. BUT they were very upset and taking the shirt down made them happy. I would never remove the strip or apologize for the joke but if not selling the shirt means I don't have to fight with these people I'll do that.
I'm not super happy about it but it was the path of least resistance.
You have done a good thing for traumatized people. Thank you for removing the shirt. Obviously you did so grudgingly, but no one can censor you and you have done it of your own will. That means a lot.
No, I am pretty sure that bowing to pressure still counts as censorship. Someone else is still telling them, in essence, what they can and cannot say.
Really, the only thing that needs to be said is this:
If you cave to one person for a silly reason, you set a precedent and they will pressure you and in the end you will have to cave to all of them. Please bring the shirts back.
The alternative is to make a comic where the dickwolves make amends for their previous misdemeanors allowing the t-shirts to be rereleased as the dickwolves would be good guys as opposed to the other type of guys.
Because lets face it - no one in the history of the world has ever melded the words "dick" and "wolves" together into one entity before Gabe and Tycho and it is complete genius. The idea of a world without dickwolves and related merchandise fills me with sorrow - if its the choice of a world without dickwolves or a world with dickwolves who fight for good I know which one I want to live in (the one with dickwolves in it - in case you didn't get what I was striding for there).
I don't mind the original comic. In no way was it condoning rape.
The shirt, however, does basically say "Team Rapist", and that's a totally different message to send.
That's like saying wearing a Horde shirt means you're sending a message that you like to destroy human settlements.
Or perhaps wearing a shirt that reads "Baby Seal Club" means you like watching suggestive videos about young seals in compromising positions. Err... I mean seal poaching.
See, I'm a Gunshot Survivor. I'm trying to get all guns banned from the media because I do not like them because I'm a Gunshot Victim. Just curious about your rights to DICKWOLVES.
Also, can I get a Dickwolf shirt? That shirt is totally sweet.
The Sixth Slave strip was not about rape. The strip was about taking issue with the numerical sufficiency of a "good" character in RPG quests, using World of Warcraft as an example. Likewise, the Dickwolves shirt was not about rape, but a simple image meant to defy the idea that "the JPEG business" must obey to categorical imperative determined by random subsections of the readership.
If you really want an example of a more direct rape joke from Mike and Jerry youcanfindthem.
Now that that's out of the way, I can sympathize with Penny-Arcade wanting to do something to "make it right" for those to whom you feel that you might be hurting, or in a more specific case, facilitating other people to do so via a shirt. But this is a mistake. This is a big mistake.
I'll just rattle off a few off the top of my head: Penny-Arcade is playing moral Calvinball (read as: hypocrisy)
I'm referring to this post by Jerry. I remembered it because "Calvinball" was a term that stuck with me (I'm a big Bill Watterson fan as well), and I've used it pretty regularly since when someone makes an incongruent retreat in attempt to save face without ceding any ground.
Here's the excerpt from the news article:
He retreats at full speed from the items that can't be supported, while simultaneously claiming that his argument hasn't changed. And then, apparently to fill the space left by the original falsehoods, he suggests that the game is actually worse than he originally claimed, but won't say how.
Replace "items that can't be supported" with t-shirt in the first sentence, and "game" with "joke" in the seconds, and essentially you have Penny-Arcade's stance on this. According to Mike, they're removing the shirt because the shirt causes harm when exposed to other people in proximity to PAX. However, they stand by the original joke and refuse to apologize?
I'm not sure if this is just bad PR or a blatant half-measure to try and cater to two diametrically opposed groups of the readership. I'm not sure which would be better.
The ultimate implication is that Penny-Arcade does not bow to the whining masses who upturn their noses at their naughty joke and remains a beacon of honest and derisive humor, but that same company couldn't tolerate further supporting this material being presented in icon form to their customers face to face because of how harmful it was.
I think any one of us who has mastered the content provided by Sesame Street can tell that something in that statement is not like the other. Something in this statement doesn't belong.
You've directly victimized your readers
What has happened now is that Penny-Arcade, the company, has turned it's readers (more specifically those that purchased the shirt) into rape supporters. Because clearly, owning and wearing this shirt is a assuredly a negative - one that causes "tens of thousands" of people to feel hurt.
How do you think that makes someone who purchased your shirt, in assurances that jokes were jokes and advocating rape culture via a t-shirt was a ridiculous notion, feel? Now they own a shirt that most likely will bar them from entry to PAX from now on, or at the very least cause them some kind of emotional issue when doing so:
Because of how it made people feel.
Because of how it made rape victims and rape victim sympathizers feel.
Because of how it made rape victims and rape victim sympathizers that they're going to see at PAX feel.
What does that say about them? What does it say that they found it funny and agreed with your company's follow-up statement? Are they monsters for wearing your shirt, or not? If so, why did you support and sell it, and if not why are you removing it? You have now placed yourself in a situation where Penny-Arcade must victimize one group or the other.
You cast them aside in one swooping post and leave their moral quandaries to someone else, because, the Penny-Arcade PR line is simply Calvinball. There is no wisdom to be gained from it: Dickwolves are both acceptable humor for Penny-Arcade and unacceptable clothing for PAX because it hurts.
You've lost your integrity as JPEGers
What if AT&T takes umbrage to your portrayal of their customer service as involving a robot whose task is to rape people in order to prevent them from complaining about their coverage?
Does the Fruit F*cker now only attack willing fruit that are of consensual age, and if not will his shirt be banned from further sale and being worn at PAX as well?
If a Christian activist group suddenly began to take hold of the various Jesus jokes and Tycho's atheism, would the "Jesus Is F'n Metal" shirt be taken down?
Where does it stop and who makes that judgment? If you're only doing this for Dickwolves, you're still not doing for the countless other rape references then your measure is shallow and insulting to those who were offended. If you are going to make sweeping changes from now on about how jokes are approached, then you're being disingenuous and dishonest with the product you are presenting to your readers.
You make these jokes because we laugh. We laugh because we find them funny. But now you don't like that we laughed... and your move to back away from a joke is one of the cowardly jester who simply tells jokes so that he might save his head from the guillotine. The man in the silly hat with bells can only throw pies in his own face, not make scathing posts and bitingly satirical comics about other people, for he stands for nothing but his own welfare and that is not respected as integrity.
You're inadvertently judging people who use humor to deal with rape
If it seems like I have a lot to say about this, it's because I do. I've dealt with this situation frequently. As a man I feel as though I'm always at a disadvantage when it comes to my opinion about rape because clearly, I'm simply not allowed to. So I'll skip the personal story, for now and just quote a female journalist on Jezebel:
[F]urthermore, by putting sexual assault on a kind of untouchable comedy pedestal, I think we're getting further away from allowing victims to be able to make it a normative, discuss-able and, yes, mock-able experience, and that the more different we make it and ourselves from victims of other situations, the more difficult it is the get actual equity in the way the rest of society treats it.
If we take sexual assault off the table of things we can laugh about or joke about, it's just another way of saying: this is a different crime than any other crime, and so we can and must treat its victims differently than any other crime.
And, you know, f*** that. I got treated differently than any other crime victim once because of the kind of crime that I was the victim of. If I had been mugged, would the cops have been calling my friends and asking them how much I'd been drinking that night? If I had been only robbed, would it have mattered to the cops whether I'd told the guys I was out with that night that I was dating someone? If I had been shot walking out of the bar, would it have been anyone's business if my friend thought that I was flirting or not? And if any of those crimes had been committed instead, would everyone be so horribly offended by me making jokes about it? It's all part of the way in which society wants to treat me differently because of how I was victimized. Let's treat sexual assaults like any other crime and tell some rape jokes. Cool?
The point is that some people would use your shirt for humor. Some people might use your shirt to make themselves feel better about something that happened to them.
It doesn't really change anything at all...
I'd argue that anyone who felt uncomfortable about the Dickwolves shirt needs to reevaluate how they really feel about paying money to attend a convention to sustain a company in which advertising dollars are paid for comics written about rape jokes.
If the shirt was offensive, well, what about the knowledge that someone next to you, at PAX, might think that comic was funny. Because that's essentially what the shirt conveys. And without the shirt, that is still true. But now... that person who could find that comic funny? He could be anyone. I really fail to see how this is doing anything for anyone. The joke still exists. People still stand by it, including Penny-Arcade which coincidentally you're paying to attend PAX. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
All in all, I can't see the logic. For those of you who were honestly and genuinely offended... I can't fathom the idea that the comic where a TSA agent tells Tycho that he's going to rape him "right through [his] pants" isn't the thing that you're upset about. It has to be a wolf comprised of penises. That's the clarion call to action. If you could explain that to me, I'd try to be more understanding...
... until that day, though, it really just seems like a bunch of people taking something out of context and trying to steamroll Penny-Arcade because it was just something to do on the internet. Fake rage and outlets for genuine rage in a disingenuous way that ignored their entire body of work in favor of something topical. Trolls in a truest sense, either due to ignorance of their own hypocrisy or simply readers demanding special attention / treatment for their opinion re: Dickwolves...
I hope you start selling a Penny-Arcade doormat, because I'd buy one those.
Randeh on
Finally, gaming blog that's not about games. You're welcome, internet.
Reading the various blogs the Fruit-Fucker can't actually rape fruit because it isn't "alive" as such and therefore fucking fruit against its will is not really possible. One could think that as it would be quite hard to get permission from fruit before fucking it (or inserting it) that you would probably have to just assume it said yes otherwise it might get a bit wierd. Or you can assume that it wants to be eaten and not fucked so actually the point stands - why are Fruit Fucker t-shirts okay?
This is a more complex subject than I originally realised.
Reading the various blogs the Fruit-Fucker can't actually rape fruit because it isn't "alive" as such and therefore fucking fruit against its will is not really possible. One could think that as it would be quite hard to get permission from fruit before fucking it (or inserting it) that you would probably have to just assume it said yes otherwise it might get a bit wierd. Or you can assume that it wants to be eaten and not fucked so actually the point stands - why are Fruit Fucker t-shirts okay?
This is a more complex subject than I originally realised.
So then are dickwolves even able to rape? Considering they're only animals and can't comprehend the concept of consensual sex?
Coldbrand on
0
EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
Reading the various blogs the Fruit-Fucker can't actually rape fruit because it isn't "alive" as such and therefore fucking fruit against its will is not really possible. One could think that as it would be quite hard to get permission from fruit before fucking it (or inserting it) that you would probably have to just assume it said yes otherwise it might get a bit wierd. Or you can assume that it wants to be eaten and not fucked so actually the point stands - why are Fruit Fucker t-shirts okay?
This is a more complex subject than I originally realised.
You can't rape a satsuma any more than you can rape a vibrator or a facial tissue. Otherwise our laws would just start getting weird.
Themiscyra on
PAX EAST 2011 Omegathon Finalist - PAX East 2012 Omeganaut After time adrift among open stars
Among tides of light and to shoals of dust
I will return to where I began
I wanted a Got Wang shirt, but came to the PA party late and I've no idea when they were last available.
Glad I go my Dickwolves shirt when I did, wondered if something like this would happen. Now, though, do I wear it if I can ever manage to get to a PAX? Heck, do I really want to go to PAX now that it kinda feels like there's some kinda shirt-judge-police action going on? Don't want to be one of those 'poor souls getting unwanted attention'.
And Team Dickwolves really means Team Rapist? That's some really faulty logic. Let's start with the fact that we're dealing with a fictional creature and go from there. It's like a textbook case for using logical fallacies.
Now, for church tomorrow I think I'll wear my Jesus is F'n Metal shirt. That should get me some stern looks from people whose opinion doesn't matter to me, and some appreciative laughs from the rest.
And Team Dickwolves really means Team Rapist? That's some really faulty logic. Let's start with the fact that we're dealing with a fictional creature and go from there. It's like a textbook case for using logical fallacies.
Dickwolves have been shown to rape people on at least one occasion. In fact, it's the most prominent piece of information we have regarding dickwolf behavior.
The comic clearly displays it as a terrible thing, which makes the "hero's" dismissal of the sixth slave all the more darkly humorous. The shirt is basically promoting a creature that rapes as a mascot. I think that crosses a line.
So then are dickwolves even able to rape? Considering they're only animals and can't comprehend the concept of consensual sex?
Well the slaves certainly considered themselves to be raped which means the dickwolves would be rapists whether they comprehend it or not. Fruit couldn't comprehend being raped as it isn't "alive" in the same way as the slaves.
I think its hard to argue the dickwolves aren't commiting crimes. Whether they are aware or not is open for discussion - perhaps they are the unfortunate innocent victims here - losing the t-shirt that threatened to catapult them to superstardom, possibly getting their own book deal.
Had to register to comment on this. Long time reader.
I understand that you want PAX to be a place where everyone is welcome. I've only attended East last year, and will be this year, but it seems you've accomplished that.
However, you'll NEVER accomplish that completely. Someone will always be offended about something. I overheard someone complaining about the girl in the Bayonetta costume last year because it was 'objectifying women'. Should you ban revealing costumes next?
Stick to your guns. Anyone could read Penny Arcade for a couple of weeks and be offended by SOMETHING. Pushing the envelope is something that makes you guys YOU. Anyone who reads your posts or comics more than twice should be able to understand that you guys would never advocate rape.
PAX is about acceptance. If this person can't accept the joke, then that's on them. Not you.
On the other side, you just Streisand effected the shirt. I hear that on the internets there are places that anyone can design shirts.
I'd rather buy it from you.
Beechsack on
0
EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
Question; Fruit Fucker is a known sexual offender, should we also eliminate all FF apparel?
I love me some strawman hypothetical.
Care to explain?
I'm pretty sure I strongly suggested dignified silence.
Suggestion taken.
This entire episode has been played enough as it is, and I am not willing to argue for or against the darker, sinister motives of the Penny Arcade. I will continue to support this comic and its related projects, in light of this truly unenviable position.
Posts
After time adrift among open stars
Among tides of light and to shoals of dust
I will return to where I began
I'm not sure I quite get the thinking behind that post. I mean, it's great you want your people at PAX to be comfortable, that's what PAX is all about but I can't see how removing this shirt will help. In fact by removing the shirt so close to the convention and causing this big controversy so close to the convention are you not ensuring there will be lots of people wearing the shirt this year? If not the official one then it will be one they made. Had you not removed it only a handful of people would be wearing it, but now that it's a hot button issue people will be flocking to make one before PAX. I was just talking with someone earlier that plans on printing 50-100 dickwolf shirts and giving them away for free at PAX, he would not be doing this if the shirt was not removed. Either way I won't be attending this year because I go there for a video game convention, I don't go to see a three ring circus with a dickwolf in the center ring.
I would also like to thank you for removing the shirt.
While the debate about the original comic could likely go back and forth constantly, I feel as an above user did that what happened afterward felt like a hasty response.
Among the things I loved about attending PAX East last year were the many friends from around the world with whom I attended. The majority of them were either women or fellow gaymers. We felt welcomed (for the most part--you'll always have an outlier). PAX East seems among the more fan-focused and friendly spaces I've attended, and knowing you wish to continue that tradition makes me look forward to attending again in the future (unfortunately, having just moved back to Europe--that won't be this year).
Also, about the male feminist comparing this to the KKK: he was called out on his behavior, and he did apologize.
Oh man I didn't even think of that. If they don't know about this whole big thing and wear it they might get real uncomfortable. Poor guys.
Not to mention that, while I understand the thought process behind the post and the action, it seems to clearly send the message that the majority of readers who had a positive or neutral opinion of the merchandise are to be held beholden to the objections of a very few. I think it sets a bad precedent for the future. I don't agree with the decision, but, alas, it was also not my decision to make.
No offense, but if you're caught fucking the dog you should probably just ride with it. Pulling out in the middle doesn't make you any less of a dogfucker, it just makes you look silly because you couldn't go through with it to the end.
I wanted so badly to write something witty and biting in response to this whole situation, but your statement perfectly encapsulates everything I would have wanted to say.
I love you guys at PA. Hell, I've been an enforcer for a few years now, but this shit is just embarrassing. Get ready for "vocal minorities" to start pounding your door down.
You have done a good thing for traumatized people. Thank you for removing the shirt. Obviously you did so grudgingly, but no one can censor you and you have done it of your own will. That means a lot.
As far as I know, PAX has never had a dress code (beyond 'wear clothes' and 'please shower, will you?') and I'm not sure it's a good idea to start. I could see a general ban on t-shirts carrying profanity and obscene images (which would bar the official shirts, the Survivors' Guild shirts, and likely most of the homemade shirts that weren't heavily coded), particularly as the mass media are taking more notice of the con, but specifically targeting it...probably not going to lead to hugs and puppies.
They're no longer selling shirts with the Official Seal of Approval, and won't have them at the merch booth at the con. It's a corporate gesture that avoids curtailing individual freedom of expression. Is everyone entirely happy with it? No. Not the pro side, not the anti side, not the shut up about it already both of you side. But that's true of most compromises.
After time adrift among open stars
Among tides of light and to shoals of dust
I will return to where I began
Jerry said, once, that it's a wheel of misfortune. At some point, it lands on you and you are made to suffer for the amusement of the rest of the wheel.
I think a lot of people are missing that they haven't apologised or taken down the comic. If they had, this conversation of backing down to vocal activists might hold water. But they removed the shirt, which was a heated response to a heated response. It's not the same thing.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
No, I am pretty sure that bowing to pressure still counts as censorship. Someone else is still telling them, in essence, what they can and cannot say.
If you cave to one person for a silly reason, you set a precedent and they will pressure you and in the end you will have to cave to all of them. Please bring the shirts back.
The shirt, however, does basically say "Team Rapist", and that's a totally different message to send.
I like you. You summerise my thoughts before I've had a chance to write them down.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
That's like saying wearing a Horde shirt means you're sending a message that you like to destroy human settlements.
Because lets face it - no one in the history of the world has ever melded the words "dick" and "wolves" together into one entity before Gabe and Tycho and it is complete genius. The idea of a world without dickwolves and related merchandise fills me with sorrow - if its the choice of a world without dickwolves or a world with dickwolves who fight for good I know which one I want to live in (the one with dickwolves in it - in case you didn't get what I was striding for there).
Go (good) Dickwolves!!
Or perhaps wearing a shirt that reads "Baby Seal Club" means you like watching suggestive videos about young seals in compromising positions. Err... I mean seal poaching.
http://twitter.com/DickWolvington
See, I'm a Gunshot Survivor. I'm trying to get all guns banned from the media because I do not like them because I'm a Gunshot Victim. Just curious about your rights to DICKWOLVES.
Also, can I get a Dickwolf shirt? That shirt is totally sweet.
The Sixth Slave strip was not about rape. The strip was about taking issue with the numerical sufficiency of a "good" character in RPG quests, using World of Warcraft as an example. Likewise, the Dickwolves shirt was not about rape, but a simple image meant to defy the idea that "the JPEG business" must obey to categorical imperative determined by random subsections of the readership.
If you really want an example of a more direct rape joke from Mike and Jerry you can find them.
Now that that's out of the way, I can sympathize with Penny-Arcade wanting to do something to "make it right" for those to whom you feel that you might be hurting, or in a more specific case, facilitating other people to do so via a shirt. But this is a mistake. This is a big mistake.
I'll just rattle off a few off the top of my head:
Penny-Arcade is playing moral Calvinball (read as: hypocrisy)
I'm referring to this post by Jerry. I remembered it because "Calvinball" was a term that stuck with me (I'm a big Bill Watterson fan as well), and I've used it pretty regularly since when someone makes an incongruent retreat in attempt to save face without ceding any ground.
Here's the excerpt from the news article:
Replace "items that can't be supported" with t-shirt in the first sentence, and "game" with "joke" in the seconds, and essentially you have Penny-Arcade's stance on this. According to Mike, they're removing the shirt because the shirt causes harm when exposed to other people in proximity to PAX. However, they stand by the original joke and refuse to apologize?
I'm not sure if this is just bad PR or a blatant half-measure to try and cater to two diametrically opposed groups of the readership. I'm not sure which would be better.
The ultimate implication is that Penny-Arcade does not bow to the whining masses who upturn their noses at their naughty joke and remains a beacon of honest and derisive humor, but that same company couldn't tolerate further supporting this material being presented in icon form to their customers face to face because of how harmful it was.
I think any one of us who has mastered the content provided by Sesame Street can tell that something in that statement is not like the other. Something in this statement doesn't belong.
You've directly victimized your readers
What has happened now is that Penny-Arcade, the company, has turned it's readers (more specifically those that purchased the shirt) into rape supporters. Because clearly, owning and wearing this shirt is a assuredly a negative - one that causes "tens of thousands" of people to feel hurt.
How do you think that makes someone who purchased your shirt, in assurances that jokes were jokes and advocating rape culture via a t-shirt was a ridiculous notion, feel? Now they own a shirt that most likely will bar them from entry to PAX from now on, or at the very least cause them some kind of emotional issue when doing so:
Because of how it made people feel.
Because of how it made rape victims and rape victim sympathizers feel.
Because of how it made rape victims and rape victim sympathizers that they're going to see at PAX feel.
What does that say about them? What does it say that they found it funny and agreed with your company's follow-up statement? Are they monsters for wearing your shirt, or not? If so, why did you support and sell it, and if not why are you removing it? You have now placed yourself in a situation where Penny-Arcade must victimize one group or the other.
You cast them aside in one swooping post and leave their moral quandaries to someone else, because, the Penny-Arcade PR line is simply Calvinball. There is no wisdom to be gained from it: Dickwolves are both acceptable humor for Penny-Arcade and unacceptable clothing for PAX because it hurts.
You've lost your integrity as JPEGers
What if AT&T takes umbrage to your portrayal of their customer service as involving a robot whose task is to rape people in order to prevent them from complaining about their coverage?
Does the Fruit F*cker now only attack willing fruit that are of consensual age, and if not will his shirt be banned from further sale and being worn at PAX as well?
If a Christian activist group suddenly began to take hold of the various Jesus jokes and Tycho's atheism, would the "Jesus Is F'n Metal" shirt be taken down?
Where does it stop and who makes that judgment? If you're only doing this for Dickwolves, you're still not doing for the countless other rape references then your measure is shallow and insulting to those who were offended. If you are going to make sweeping changes from now on about how jokes are approached, then you're being disingenuous and dishonest with the product you are presenting to your readers.
You make these jokes because we laugh. We laugh because we find them funny. But now you don't like that we laughed... and your move to back away from a joke is one of the cowardly jester who simply tells jokes so that he might save his head from the guillotine. The man in the silly hat with bells can only throw pies in his own face, not make scathing posts and bitingly satirical comics about other people, for he stands for nothing but his own welfare and that is not respected as integrity.
You're inadvertently judging people who use humor to deal with rape
If it seems like I have a lot to say about this, it's because I do. I've dealt with this situation frequently. As a man I feel as though I'm always at a disadvantage when it comes to my opinion about rape because clearly, I'm simply not allowed to. So I'll skip the personal story, for now and just quote a female journalist on Jezebel:
You can read the whole story here.
The point is that some people would use your shirt for humor. Some people might use your shirt to make themselves feel better about something that happened to them.
It doesn't really change anything at all...
I'd argue that anyone who felt uncomfortable about the Dickwolves shirt needs to reevaluate how they really feel about paying money to attend a convention to sustain a company in which advertising dollars are paid for comics written about rape jokes.
If the shirt was offensive, well, what about the knowledge that someone next to you, at PAX, might think that comic was funny. Because that's essentially what the shirt conveys. And without the shirt, that is still true. But now... that person who could find that comic funny? He could be anyone. I really fail to see how this is doing anything for anyone. The joke still exists. People still stand by it, including Penny-Arcade which coincidentally you're paying to attend PAX. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
All in all, I can't see the logic. For those of you who were honestly and genuinely offended... I can't fathom the idea that the comic where a TSA agent tells Tycho that he's going to rape him "right through [his] pants" isn't the thing that you're upset about. It has to be a wolf comprised of penises. That's the clarion call to action. If you could explain that to me, I'd try to be more understanding...
... until that day, though, it really just seems like a bunch of people taking something out of context and trying to steamroll Penny-Arcade because it was just something to do on the internet. Fake rage and outlets for genuine rage in a disingenuous way that ignored their entire body of work in favor of something topical. Trolls in a truest sense, either due to ignorance of their own hypocrisy or simply readers demanding special attention / treatment for their opinion re: Dickwolves...
I hope you start selling a Penny-Arcade doormat, because I'd buy one those.
This is a more complex subject than I originally realised.
So then are dickwolves even able to rape? Considering they're only animals and can't comprehend the concept of consensual sex?
I love me some strawman hypothetical.
After time adrift among open stars
Among tides of light and to shoals of dust
I will return to where I began
Care to explain?
I'm pretty sure I strongly suggested dignified silence.
I wanted a Got Wang shirt, but came to the PA party late and I've no idea when they were last available.
Glad I go my Dickwolves shirt when I did, wondered if something like this would happen. Now, though, do I wear it if I can ever manage to get to a PAX? Heck, do I really want to go to PAX now that it kinda feels like there's some kinda shirt-judge-police action going on? Don't want to be one of those 'poor souls getting unwanted attention'.
And Team Dickwolves really means Team Rapist? That's some really faulty logic. Let's start with the fact that we're dealing with a fictional creature and go from there. It's like a textbook case for using logical fallacies.
Now, for church tomorrow I think I'll wear my Jesus is F'n Metal shirt. That should get me some stern looks from people whose opinion doesn't matter to me, and some appreciative laughs from the rest.
The comic clearly displays it as a terrible thing, which makes the "hero's" dismissal of the sixth slave all the more darkly humorous. The shirt is basically promoting a creature that rapes as a mascot. I think that crosses a line.
Apparently the answer is they turned Scott Kurtz's office into dickwolf storage.
oh man, the look on his face must have been priceless
Well the slaves certainly considered themselves to be raped which means the dickwolves would be rapists whether they comprehend it or not. Fruit couldn't comprehend being raped as it isn't "alive" in the same way as the slaves.
I think its hard to argue the dickwolves aren't commiting crimes. Whether they are aware or not is open for discussion - perhaps they are the unfortunate innocent victims here - losing the t-shirt that threatened to catapult them to superstardom, possibly getting their own book deal.
We shall never know.
I understand that you want PAX to be a place where everyone is welcome. I've only attended East last year, and will be this year, but it seems you've accomplished that.
However, you'll NEVER accomplish that completely. Someone will always be offended about something. I overheard someone complaining about the girl in the Bayonetta costume last year because it was 'objectifying women'. Should you ban revealing costumes next?
Stick to your guns. Anyone could read Penny Arcade for a couple of weeks and be offended by SOMETHING. Pushing the envelope is something that makes you guys YOU. Anyone who reads your posts or comics more than twice should be able to understand that you guys would never advocate rape.
PAX is about acceptance. If this person can't accept the joke, then that's on them. Not you.
On the other side, you just Streisand effected the shirt. I hear that on the internets there are places that anyone can design shirts.
I'd rather buy it from you.
Suggestion taken.
This entire episode has been played enough as it is, and I am not willing to argue for or against the darker, sinister motives of the Penny Arcade. I will continue to support this comic and its related projects, in light of this truly unenviable position.