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guys. check out these cars.

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    The Black HunterThe Black Hunter The key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple, unimpeachable reason to existRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Zero mutation rate means they will never progress, in the most absolute meaning of the word never.

    Once they reach a certain point, there is nothing new

    The Black Hunter on
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    VALVEjunkieVALVEjunkie Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    yeah man, have you even looked at those times? they more than likely hit that point about ten minutes after you went to bed.

    VALVEjunkie on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I left a window of this running when I left work on Friday.

    Framling on
    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
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    ASimPersonASimPerson Cold... and hard.Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Stupid question: what does the frequency slider do?

    ASimPerson on
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    Day of the BearDay of the Bear The Qun demandsRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I think it adjusts the frequency of wheels appearing in a design.

    Day of the Bear on
    m6eoUgQ.jpg
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    RaneadosRaneados police apologist you shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    the slider determines how often you'll get a car with 0 wheels

    the slider doesn't say how many wheels you'll get other than "not 0", that's determined by the evolution

    if you set max wheels to 3, you could be getting cars with 1, 2 or 3 wheels, but a 100% wheel slider just insures you don't get any 0-wheel cars

    Raneados on
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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So, in my parallel courses, the big winner seems to be mutation. The most interesting thing going on is the diversification going on in both camps now that serious obstacles have been reached. Rate of change is outstripping ability to overcome the course.

    One thing of note is that the first course, which has generally favoured faster wheels overall, has now run through 1.5 times as many generations as the second course. It also suffered a severe performance crash (it's most successful generation remains generation 4), so whether this rapid evolution is due to the faster wheels pushing the entities through the course faster or if it's because the crash caused shorter run times, it's not clear.

    In any case, I'm going to need a reboot tomorrow so I can play some XCom. I'll let it run overnight one last time and see what develops in my original course (now at generation 106).

    Fishman on
    X-Com LP Thread I, II, III, IV, V
    That's unbelievably cool. Your new name is cool guy. Let's have sex.
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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    huh, a few weeks back the guy who made this uploaded the demo (which was less complex and had a point on the cars that, if it touched the ground, was insta death) on 4chan.

    I left it on all night and i got some sick scores.

    Mortal Sky on
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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    oh yeah, btw, the idea to increase the target score for each generation?

    My idea.

    Mortal Sky on
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    RaneadosRaneados police apologist you shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    good to know you are a 4chan regular

    I'll file that knowledge away and use it to base an opinion on you

    Raneados on
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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I wouldn't say I'm a regular, but yeah I'm not in the closet about it either.

    Mortal Sky on
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    FyndirFyndir Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Zero mutation rate means they will never progress, in the most absolute meaning of the word never.

    Once they reach a certain point, there is nothing new

    Yes, I was mostly interested to see when they would reach that point and if they would ever manage to slip past it within a reasonable timescale.

    Since they've had about 14 hours now, and are still exactly where they were this morning, I'm going to cull them all and start a new batch later, probably with 2% mutation and higher max wheels or something.

    Fyndir on
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    The Black HunterThe Black Hunter The key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple, unimpeachable reason to existRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'd say go with 4-5% mutation

    you'll end up with a certain style of car, but not the exact same one over and over

    The Black Hunter on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Fyndir wrote: »
    Zero mutation rate means they will never progress, in the most absolute meaning of the word never.

    Once they reach a certain point, there is nothing new

    Yes, I was mostly interested to see when they would reach that point and if they would ever manage to slip past it within a reasonable timescale.

    Since they've had about 14 hours now, and are still exactly where they were this morning, I'm going to cull them all and start a new batch later, probably with 2% mutation and higher max wheels or something.

    No, once they reach that point, they literally will not ever change again without mutation added back in. Never ever ever. It doesn't matter how many or which genes you swap in two identical chromosomes, you will end up with two identical chromosomes.

    Framling on
    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Here's my longest running population:

    boxcar.png

    After about 20 generations, you can see that spike trap was stopping almost everything, and the population seemed stagnant. In an effort to come up with something dramatic to overcome the obstacle, I ramped up mutation to 12%. The effect led to an almost immediate downward trend in the the success of the population. However, a few strong genotypes were being produced.

    At around generation 100, the population had come up with a few ways of defeating the spike - namely, by producing designs similar to the one below with a light weight extended front wheel, allowing the design to 'skip' across the top of the spikes and hit the slope at speed. With a few such designs in the population and some indicators of success, the mutation the was dropped down to 3% and the effect was immediate and dramatic. The population success skyrocketed, both on average and the 'high-tide' mark.

    The new block seems to be 266, where a wall exists similar to Black Hunters. I see no way for any design to overcome this slope, plus I want to reboot my computer, so I'm ending this experiment here.

    Fishman on
    X-Com LP Thread I, II, III, IV, V
    That's unbelievably cool. Your new name is cool guy. Let's have sex.
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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The worst one of all is at about 400 feet. I have had cars successfully surmount it multiple times only to breed a tiny bit and fuck it all up the next generation.

    To get over it you need a slim, elongated body with not-bouncy wheels running the entire length and no spikes, in order to get enough torque to run up a near vertical climb. (edit: It is actually impossible with fewer than three wheels, and very hard above six wheels unless they are all not bouncy)

    Mortal Sky on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    bounciness isn't a feature of wheels
    I think bounciness or lack thereof just results from the overall combination of the shape of the chassis and location of the wheels in interaction with the right kind of terrain

    and it's expected that if a chassis manages to have the right features to clear a major obstacle that the rest of them can't clear, its features will of course be diluted into the population due to "breeding" and there's even a likely chance the right features won't be preserved from a single chassis

    after all, just because a chassis is more successful and is more likely to breed, that still doesn't determine exactly which of its traits will be passed on, so it typically takes a fair amount of time for a rare feature to get fixed in the population due to increased success

    and that's assuming you don't have the mutation rate set high enough that you're introducing too many new traits (which will tend to be bad traits the majority of the time)

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
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    the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Druhim wrote: »
    bounciness isn't a feature of wheels
    I think bounciness or lack thereof just results from the overall combination of the shape of the chassis and location of the wheels in interaction with the right kind of terrain

    and it's expected that if a chassis manages to have the right features to clear a major obstacle that the rest of them can't clear, its features will of course be diluted into the population due to "breeding" and there's even a likely chance the right features won't be preserved from a single chassis

    after all, just because a chassis is more successful and is more likely to breed, that still doesn't determine exactly which of its traits will be passed on, so it typically takes a fair amount of time for a rare feature to get fixed in the population due to increased success

    and that's assuming you don't have the mutation rate set high enough that you're introducing too many new traits (which will tend to be bad traits the majority of the time)

    I cheat a little and vote up any car that clears a particularly difficult obstacle, as well as turning down the mutation rate until the capacity to clear the obstacle becomes fixed in the population. By that time, there's usually the next obstacle to be cleared, and the mutation rate has to go back up.

    the wook on
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    AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Druhim wrote: »
    bounciness isn't a feature of wheels
    I think bounciness or lack thereof just results from the overall combination of the shape of the chassis and location of the wheels in interaction with the right kind of terrain

    The orientation of the shocks is a pretty big factor.

    Aneurhythmia on
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    AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I just can't get out past 600 with a 3 wheel max. Maybe I'll start over entirely if I'm adding more wheels.

    Aneurhythmia on
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    PeccaviPeccavi Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    From generation 19 through 27, I ran at 0% mutation, to try and speed up homogenization. My cars ended up getting to 507, which was pretty awesome since in generation 18 most only went 320 with a couple going 440. Now that everything looked the same, I figured I'd bump it up to 4% to try and improve on that distance.

    Oh God, what have I done?

    Peccavi on
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    AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I put it on 4 wheels at 20% with a 5% mutation rate, and didn't up or down vote anything. It was breaking 900 in 16 generations.

    Aneurhythmia on
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    redheadredhead Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    oh whoa version 2.0 has hell of awesome changes

    http://www.boxcar2d.com/changelog.html

    this guy just keeps makin' shit better, good for him

    redhead on
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    EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Oh wow, thanks for that

    Hadn't realised a new version had popped up

    Edcrab on
    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
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    redheadredhead Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    i'm having a lot of fun with this new option to choose your terrain

    redhead on
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    redheadredhead Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    oh man speedway is fucking rad

    working with 2 wheels right now, but later i wanna find out what the fastest unicycle would be

    edit: weirdly enough, i'm starting to think the best two-wheel design is going to be one that spends most of its time on just one wheel. cars that balance on their back wheel seem to be mostly immune to the bumpy road problem that is slowing down the ones with two wheels on the ground at all times. right now i'm thinking the best two-wheel design for speedway would have one big back wheel, a small wheel in front just to keep it from flipping when the front side occasionally touches down, and a light draggy piece behind to keep it from doing a backflip

    redhead on
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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I love Hang Ten so much. Such a fun little map to watch.

    Mortal Sky on
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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    just got to exactly 20 seconds on speedway. The trick appears to be, with two wheels touching the ground, to have a stiff back wheel and a lightly bouncy front.

    EDIT:19.3 seconds on that same body type.
    ed2:19.1 woo

    Mortal Sky on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I think I hit 15.7 on speedway after letting it run through a meeting.

    No, now I'm on the one with the stacks of blocks. That is absolutely what this thing was missing before. SMASHING.

    Framling on
    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
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    redheadredhead Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    yeah i eventually got to 15.5 on speedway, just with a pretty standard looking car with two big wheels, maybe a tiny bit front-heavy

    doesn't seem like you could get there much faster so i got bored

    i was playing around with the gap for a while. it's a good idea for a track but it needs to have a) longer flat areas between jumps, so as not to punish cars that do "too well" on the first few and b) an actually possible-to-beat fourth jump

    redhead on
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    redheadredhead Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    oh man blockhead does indeed own, why hadn't i tried this before

    can't wait to see what this will be like after it sits and evolves for a while

    redhead on
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    BallmanBallman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So, it's probably been done, but when you go to version 2.0 and can enter a seed for a previously used car? I figured out what the numbers mean.

    First, 8 pairs of numbers give locations of the 8 vertices from the origin. Of all things, this is the hard part. I think the numbers mean (angle in radians, distance from 0,0), but I'm not totally sure.

    Second, there are 8 triplets of numbers. In order, these are 1) The index of the vertex the wheel is attached to (from 0-7), 2) The angle of the piston relative to the origin in radians, and 3) the radius of the wheel. So, for example, (0,3.14,1) puts a wheel on the first vertex at an angle of 180 degrees with a radius of 1. You have to specify all 8 wheels even if you don't use them. You can use the "number of wheels" option at the bottom to only use, say, the first 3 wheels you specify.

    Finally, you have two sets of 8 numbers. These are just the colors of the 8 polygons created by the vertices and then the colors of the pistons for the 8 wheels. These can be left alone unless you want the car to be pretty.

    Here's the one I put together. It's slow, but it can go over a lot of obstacles and climbs pretty well:

    1,1,1,2,1,1,1,0.5,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,0.5,
    1,-1.57,1.35,5,1.57,1.35,3,0,0.4,7,3.14,0.4,2,-0.78,0.3,4,0.78,0.3,6,2.35,0.3,0,3.92,0.3,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002


    Edit: Different design, similar idea:

    1,0.5,1,1,1,0.5,1,0.2,1,0.5,1,1,1,0.5,1,0.2,
    1,-1.57,0.8,5,1.57,0.8,1,0.78,0.6,1,2.36,0.6,5,3.92,0.6,5,-0.78,0.6,6,2.35,0.3,0,3.92,0.3,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002

    Ballman on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ballman wrote: »
    So, it's probably been done, but when you go to version 2.0 and can enter a seed for a previously used car? I figured out what the numbers mean.

    First, 8 pairs of numbers give locations of the 8 vertices from the origin. Of all things, this is the hard part. I think the numbers mean (angle in radians, distance from 0,0), but I'm not totally sure.

    Second, there are 8 triplets of numbers. In order, these are 1) The index of the vertex the wheel is attached to (from 0-7), 2) The angle of the piston relative to the origin in radians, and 3) the radius of the wheel. So, for example, (0,3.14,1) puts a wheel on the first vertex at an angle of 180 degrees with a radius of 1. You have to specify all 8 wheels even if you don't use them. You can use the "number of wheels" option at the bottom to only use, say, the first 3 wheels you specify.

    Finally, you have two sets of 8 numbers. These are just the colors of the 8 polygons created by the vertices and then the colors of the pistons for the 8 wheels. These can be left alone unless you want the car to be pretty.

    Here's the one I put together. It's slow, but it can go over a lot of obstacles and climbs pretty well:

    1,1,1,2,1,1,1,0.5,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,0.5,
    1,-1.57,1.35,5,1.57,1.35,3,0,0.4,7,3.14,0.4,2,-0.78,0.3,4,0.78,0.3,6,2.35,0.3,0,3.92,0.3,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002


    Edit: Different design, similar idea:

    1,0.5,1,1,1,0.5,1,0.2,1,0.5,1,1,1,0.5,1,0.2,
    1,-1.57,0.8,5,1.57,0.8,1,0.78,0.6,1,2.36,0.6,5,3.92,0.6,5,-0.78,0.6,6,2.35,0.3,0,3.92,0.3,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002

    You could also learn this from reading The Algorithm page.

    Framling on
    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
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    AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm lazy. Someone write a quick java program where I can draw the car, and it'll spit out the right seed number.

    Aneurhythmia on
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    BallmanBallman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Framling wrote: »
    Ballman wrote: »
    So, it's probably been done, but when you go to version 2.0 and can enter a seed for a previously used car? I figured out what the numbers mean.

    First, 8 pairs of numbers give locations of the 8 vertices from the origin. Of all things, this is the hard part. I think the numbers mean (angle in radians, distance from 0,0), but I'm not totally sure.

    Second, there are 8 triplets of numbers. In order, these are 1) The index of the vertex the wheel is attached to (from 0-7), 2) The angle of the piston relative to the origin in radians, and 3) the radius of the wheel. So, for example, (0,3.14,1) puts a wheel on the first vertex at an angle of 180 degrees with a radius of 1. You have to specify all 8 wheels even if you don't use them. You can use the "number of wheels" option at the bottom to only use, say, the first 3 wheels you specify.

    Finally, you have two sets of 8 numbers. These are just the colors of the 8 polygons created by the vertices and then the colors of the pistons for the 8 wheels. These can be left alone unless you want the car to be pretty.

    Here's the one I put together. It's slow, but it can go over a lot of obstacles and climbs pretty well:

    1,1,1,2,1,1,1,0.5,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,0.5,
    1,-1.57,1.35,5,1.57,1.35,3,0,0.4,7,3.14,0.4,2,-0.78,0.3,4,0.78,0.3,6,2.35,0.3,0,3.92,0.3,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002


    Edit: Different design, similar idea:

    1,0.5,1,1,1,0.5,1,0.2,1,0.5,1,1,1,0.5,1,0.2,
    1,-1.57,0.8,5,1.57,0.8,1,0.78,0.6,1,2.36,0.6,5,3.92,0.6,5,-0.78,0.6,6,2.35,0.3,0,3.92,0.3,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,111065,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002,771002

    You could also learn this from reading The Algorithm page.

    Pffft, reading.

    Ballman on
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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    holy shit I left it on all day and now some cars are making 16 second times

    Mortal Sky on
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    redheadredhead Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    after a few generations of unicycles on speedway i've got one with a 17 second time on just one wheel
    0.579,0.469,0.211,1.551,0.348,2.464,0.75,0.403,0.562,0.964,0.142,0.414,0.817,2.821,0.139,1.961,4,6.049,1.422,1,1.995,0.655,6,1.545,0.849,7,2.286,0.773,4,5.745,0.985,5,0.528,1.415,5,2.41,0.222,6,0.45,1.416,10395571,4610557,8327673,16130309,15350233,10719230,6529082,2272731,4719685,14315314,7834287,16707339,16268750,5185068,10394600,1688292

    edit: it actually doesn't perform as well on tracks other than the one it was generated on, so i'm thinking the bumps on speedway tracks are randomized like the hills + valleys on the default tracks

    it's down to 16 on my computer tho

    after running all night, down to 15

    redhead on
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    DichotomyDichotomy Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    oh my god blockhead is everything I ever wanted from this

    Dichotomy on
    0BnD8l3.gif
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    FlatEricFlatEric Leaves from the vine, Falling so slow Like fragile, tiny shells, Drifting in the foamRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Anyone else getting memory use issues? On version 1.2 I was getting 15-20 mb used, even after leaving it on for hours.

    I just tried it today and it almost crashed my browser. Said it was using 980 mb.

    FlatEric on
    S80hoUu.jpg
    hDrW8.png
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Hahah watching
    0.189,2.549,0.096,1.499,0.362,0.549,0.169,0.712,0.651,0.118,0.969,0.291,0.742,1.301,0.887,0.743,-1,4.099,0.718,0,2.696,1.318,6,5.713,0.938,1,4.597,1.474,2,1.688,1.4,-1,1.275,0.157,4,0.565,0.41,-1,1.564,0.954,15633665,15633665,15633665,15633665,5939004,5939004,5939004,7242529,15288493,13748370,15633665,15633665,15633665,15633665,14052777,15633665

    go through Hang 10 is hilarious.

    Aistan on
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