Networking problem

Nakatomi2010

So, I recently got a Netgear WNR3500L and connected it to my verizon wireless router, but after a little but the DHCP server on the Netgear passes all functions to the Verizon router, which I don't want.

What feature is doing this, and how do I stop it?

AngelHedgie

Do you have the cable modem plugged into the WAN port on the router?

Nakatomi2010

Verizon doesn't issue modems. They issue these stupid modem/router things.

But yes it is plugged into the WAN port on my router, but there's some feature in my router and the Verizon router that's making them talk and be all like "Oh hey, I see you have a DHCP, let me hand these functions over to you" and so my new router is passing the functions over.

I think it has something to do with RIP, but I'm unfamiliar with it....

AngelHedgie

Nakatomi2010 wrote: »

Verizon doesn't issue modems. They issue these stupid modem/router things.

But yes it is plugged into the WAN port on my router, but there's some feature in my router and the Verizon router that's making them talk and be all like "Oh hey, I see you have a DHCP, let me hand these functions over to you" and so my new router is passing the functions over.

I think it has something to do with RIP, but I'm unfamiliar with it....

No, what is most likely happening is that your router and the Verizon router have the same network mask for their internal networks. The result is that your router then acts as more or less a glorified repeater. The solution is that you have to change the internal network mask on your router to a different mask - either switch to the Class A or Class B private space, or set up a Class C subnet.

Nakatomi2010

Currently my Verizon is putting out 192.168.1.x while my Netgear is pushing 192.168.100.x

You're suggesting I just go to a scheme of like 10.0.0.x?

AngelHedgie

Nakatomi2010 wrote: »

Currently my Verizon is putting out 192.168.1.x while my Netgear is pushing 192.168.100.x

You're suggesting I just go to a scheme of like 10.0.0.x?

Hmm. That would be set up on different subnets. And yet computers connected to the internal Netgear network get assigned 192.168.1.x addresses?

harry.timbershaft

Disable uPnP on both devices, reboot, check config and make sure it stuck, then try again. Are you absolutely positively sure that the cable thingy is plugged into the "WAN" port? Is there a configuration setting in the NetGear device that lets you turn the "WAN" port into a "regular" port? Is that setting turned on or off?

L Ron Howard

AngelHedgie wrote: »

Nakatomi2010 wrote: »

Currently my Verizon is putting out 192.168.1.x while my Netgear is pushing 192.168.100.x

You're suggesting I just go to a scheme of like 10.0.0.x?

Hmm. That would be set up on different subnets. And yet computers connected to the internal Netgear network get assigned 192.168.1.x addresses?

No. Only if you change the subnets from the default 255.255.255.0 to something like 255.0.0.0 or whatever.

Also, which one do you want to give out your IP addresses? The Verizon or the Netgear router?

Bowen

I think Netgears have an option for DHCP relay. Turn DHCP off in your verizon router, and all will be well. I have the exact same setup just with different devices (and my router's subnet is 192.168.202.0/24). RIP can play a part in it, but shouldn't, and the issue will still probably persist even after changing the class of your subnet.

Make sure that the cable from the verizon unit is going into your uplink/internet port as well.

DaMoonRulz

I got a Netgear N300 wireless router. My desktop's connection is 100mbps, my laptop (older) is at 54mbps, but my PS3 is only at an upload speed of anywhere from 2-6 mbps. Any advice on how to pimp out my connection? I have comcast and use a motorola modem

Bowen

Wireless G will, unfortunately, usually peak out at 6.

Jimmy King

Yeah, speeds sound right. I suspect you are confusing Mb/s (megabits) and MB/s (megabytes). You are likely seeing your upload speed in MB/s, wireless g is 54Mb/s which is ~ 6-7MB/s and you'll rarely see full throughput.

harry.timbershaft

bowen wrote: »

I think Netgears have an option for DHCP relay.

I refuse to believe that a consumer-level Netgear product has the capability to do DHCP relay. I just won't hear of it.

Bowen

I didn't know there was business class level of netgear routers, thought it was just switches.

DaMoonRulz

Is G too slow for multiplayer gaming? I tried playing X-men arcade just to test it out and there was a one to one and a half second lag

Jimmy King

It shouldn't be. People played multiplayer games online with way slower than 54Mbps for years. In fact most of us still do as our actual internet connections are usually far below that.

Tofystedeth

Speedwise G should be fine for gaming. You could either be getting wireless interference, or the internet connection itself (which is typically the slowest part of any link) was insufficient or flaky.

DaMoonRulz

K. I only tried that one game, so maybe it was someone else's connection. Netflix was downloading movies just fine, is that a good indicator for MP games?

Jimmy King

Most games need way less bandwidth than netflix, especially if you're getting HD from netflix. There's about a million things that can cause latency like that, so unless it's happening all the time, i wouldn't worry about it.

That signal from your computer to the server is going through probably thousands of miles of cables and several other computers (using that term very generically for routers, firewalls, etc.). and there can be a problem anywhere in between your computer and the server AND the other players' computers and server.

Nakatomi2010

Quick update.

I turned off DHCP on the Verizon router and my Netgear took over, however I lost all connectivity to the internet.

Turning off DHCP on the Verizon router is not really an option anyways. The way Verizon FiOS work is that your TV set top box pulls it's guide through the router. So the DHCP assigning is required so that the set top box TV guide has information, and it can't get an IP from the Netgear since I can't screw a cable into it.

I'l have to rummage through the settings later.

I still suspect it may be RIP that getting me... It's a feature that was not on my old Linksys router (WRT350N)....

Jimmy King

Did you set a static IP (on the correct subnet) on the netgear on its interface that faces the verizon router? It needs to have an IP on that interface so that it can pass traffic through to the verizon router. My guess is it was getting that IP set via DHCP from the verizon router.

Of course since you need the verizon router to be handing out DHCP anyway, the above doesn't matter that much as that won't be what you need it to do.

It IS strange to use RIP for a home network like this, you would enable that to use it like a real router rather than for NAT like you're likely doing, so having RIP enabled may be causing it to pass the DHCP requests through.

Nakatomi2010

Yup, did that. No dice.

harry.timbershaft

Any chance you can simply disable the firewall, NAT, and DHCP functionality on the Netgear device so it's simply serving a wireless network and not doing anything else? Essentially, you'll have one flat, layer 2 network. I know you can easily do this with dd-wrt, but I'm not sure about the stock Netgear firmware.

Nakatomi2010

I could, but I dislike the UI on the Verizon router, I've been having it just ignoring it for years until this crap... If it's possible I'd rather not rely on it, but it's seeming like I'll have no other choice.

Jimmy King

Are you using the stock firmware on your router? If so, have you tried dd-wrt or tomato?

Bowen

It sounds like you've plugged the verizon into a standard port on the router rather than the uplink/internet port. As long as it's there, your computers should not be able to see or get DHCP from the verizon router. If you just plugged it into a port then, the network traffic is going to collide with each other and it's going to be a race case over who can give what.

If you get DHCP from the verizon router even if it's plugged into the internet port? I uh, good luck with that.

Nakatomi2010

I can assure you I am plugging into the WAN port on my Netgear. I believe the feature that's screwing me over is RIP.

Nakatomi2010

I found this online which is basically text book to my issue.

http://www.increa.com/computers/verizon-dsl-hacked-my-network/index.html

Granted I'm FiOS not DSL, but it's the exact samr thing going on. So now I know what's happening. The question is how to stop it.

AngelHedgie

Wow. That's...pretty fucking evil.

Jimmy King

My advice is to try out a third party firmware on your router. I had Verizon DSL for years at home with two different Westell modems/routers. We've also had Verizon FiOS for a year or two at work and have not run into any issues like that.

Routers can be configured to route DHCP traffic across subnets, so you could be correct that with rip enabled it's making things be all weird. I know Tomato will allow you to turn off rip very easily and defaults to it being off.

Bowen

Yeah I have an older netgear router from probably 12 years ago and I haven't had this issue at all.

Try a different firmware.

Nakatomi2010

Changing the firmware isn't really an option as I'm taking part in the SamKnows broadband performance and reliabilty program.

Let me run this logic by you all though. The problem is with IP address assigning. What if the device was out of IPs?

What if I set the DHCP scope on the Verizon box to be two IPs. Think I can be sneaky and get away with that?

Jimmy King

It might work, depending on exactly what is causing the problem. It's worth a shot, though. It still might be flaky even if it does work... turn your tv off, its IP becomes available again, and then your computer gets it. It's unlikely, but maybe the FiOS router/modem will let you specify mac addresses to hand out dhcp IPs to?

I just looked into this SamKnows deal and it sounds like they provided you with the router, possibly with their own firmware on it. Does it have any firewalling capabilities? It might be possible to block dhcp requests at the netgear.

Nakatomi2010

This thread can be closed now. After significantly more time in researching the issue I believe I've been able to resolve it. It looks like the SamKnows router does use a special type of firmware, specifically one that ships in "bridge mode", and cannot be changed. I was able to find on their site a firmware update that allows me to change from Bridge to Router mode. The issue appears to have resolved itself. I've been able to maintain my IP addressing scheme over night, which I couldn't before.

Supposed it's my fault for accepting gifts from strange people...