The Internet just seems to find the word 'rape' hilarious. I guess when you're far removed enough from it it's just this absurd thing, almost ridiculous. I guess that changes when it happens to you or someone you know.
well everyone has someone they know who's been affected by it
they just don't know
because they're not the kind of person who would ever have that information shared with them
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
This depends on if you view a predominantly gender-based social and cultural construct as being "perfectly natural". If a culture repeatedly articulates sexuality in terms of conquest and dominance then of course other examples of conquest and/or dominance will be sexualized by people. It really doesn't matter that much how blatantly that's expressed.
it doesn't, eh? Can I look forward to being reminded of this the next time I gripe about my bank fucking me?
Well, actually, using the word "fucking" to describe a a negative, often violent non-sexual action or occurrence has the same root cultural cause as using "rape", but I can not remind you of that if it makes you feel any better.
what I am suggesting is that maybe it doesn't really matter at all
I make jewish jokes all the time, like at the store I said "I was afraid of Juice." and the checker looked at me kind of funny and I said "Juice you know like you drink, not jews, though I am scared about them taking over the media with their mind rays."
and now OJ is offended
Don't squeeze the Juice!
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
The Internet just seems to find the word 'rape' hilarious. I guess when you're far removed enough from it it's just this absurd thing, almost ridiculous. I guess that changes when it happens to you or someone you know.
well everyone has someone they know who's been affected by it
they just don't know
because they're not the kind of person who would ever have that information shared with them
This is unfair.
My brothers don't know I've been raped, and its not because they're terrible human beings.
Survivors are not under any sort of obligation to tell their friends and family and be a symbol of why it's bad to use rape as a verb in regards to Halo.
Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
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CindersWhose sails were black when it was windyRegistered Userregular
I make jewish jokes all the time, like at the store I said "I was afraid of Juice." and the checker looked at me kind of funny and I said "Juice you know like you drink, not jews, though I am scared about them taking over the media with their mind rays."
I'm constantly worried that I will pronounce YOU so that it sounds like jew. And that it will sound offensive in some contexts.
Honk on
PSN: Honkalot
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I believe those who both protested and defended the t-shirt are guilty of phony outrage. Reasonable people shouldn't give a shit, but this is the internet.
the idea that everyone who professes a strong feeling you don't share one way or the other must be conspiring to get your attention is kind of absurd.
I disagree with some of the extremes I've read from both sides but I don't doubt that their feelings are sincerely felt.
I question your motives for expressing your stance.
Also, saying "we beat the other team" marginalizes abuse victims
you people sure are insensitive
you sure are ridiculous
How so? He's using the exact same logic as you are with the word rape near as I can tell.
'Beat' has more than one meaning and context
'Rape' is pretty straightforward
Though I hate being this guy......I count at least 3 separate definitions here. And admittedly I'm being rather particular, you do make a good point.
–noun
1.
an act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
2.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
3.
statutory rape.
4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic . the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
Regardless, it all comes back to my original point, is that the language of society changes over time, and words can come to take multiple or differing meanings, that even if you choose not accept, doesn't mean you get to judge everyone who may use it.
A good example is the use of funner and funnest...which is now basically excepted in most circles as ok. I struggled with that one for awhile.
I said "straightforward" not "has a single definition"
but those are extremely similar
anyway I'm done with this because if people are going to be unreasonable for the sake of being unreasonable I'm not going to participate
I make jewish jokes all the time, like at the store I said "I was afraid of Juice." and the checker looked at me kind of funny and I said "Juice you know like you drink, not jews, though I am scared about them taking over the media with their mind rays."
I believe those who both protested and defended the t-shirt are guilty of phony outrage. Reasonable people shouldn't give a shit, but this is the internet.
I don't think I expressed outrage
I said I found the responses in the thread to be gross and depressing
and I found Mike and Jerry's behavior on the subject (especially Mike's) to be sort of tasteless and unbecoming
clearly I am still posting on their forum though, so
The Internet just seems to find the word 'rape' hilarious. I guess when you're far removed enough from it it's just this absurd thing, almost ridiculous. I guess that changes when it happens to you or someone you know.
I feel that this is the case with pretty much any terrible thing used in a context of hyperbole. You are far enough removed from it so when you say something like "I'm starving" or "we murdered that team" or you make holocaust jokes or something it continues to be funny because there is a significant element of unreality to those concepts. If someone has actually experienced one of those things then they become a reality to them and the hyperbole isn't funny anymore.
I don't think that there is anything fundamentally wrong with that sort of humor, only that you have to be very aware of people for who these sort of things are a reality and how they will react to your joking about something. When you're just joking amongst friends you can account for the experiences of the people around you, but in different contexts you could be seriously upsetting someone.
I mean this is where 'privilege' comes in. It's been so overused in the feminist blogosphere that its basically lost all meaning, but I mean
it's a privilege to be able to use the term 'rape' without being reminded, even a little, of your own rape.
Of course, as Fro reminds us, rape survivors are not a monolith. But this is from my perspective.
And, Cass(I feel weird calling you Cass, but DreadPirate also seems weird because everybody calls you Cass, so... is it ok if I call you Cass?), I'm really, really not mocking you or your viewpoint. I want to make that particularly clear.
I'm a male victim of sexual abuse. I just don't really feel the same... whatever it is everybody else seems to. We're all individuals, I know. But I really, really, reeeeeeeeeally don't get what the problem with the joke was.
I make jewish jokes all the time, like at the store I said "I was afraid of Juice." and the checker looked at me kind of funny and I said "Juice you know like you drink, not jews, though I am scared about them taking over the media with their mind rays."
I'm constantly worried that I will pronounce YOU so that it sounds like jew. And that it will sound offensive in some contexts.
just play it off like you are cooban, joo know mang
I believe those who both protested and defended the t-shirt are guilty of phony outrage. Reasonable people shouldn't give a shit, but this is the internet.
the idea that everyone who professes a strong feeling you don't share one way or the other must be conspiring to get your attention is kind of absurd.
I disagree with some of the extremes I've read from both sides but I don't doubt that their feelings are sincerely felt.
I question your motives for expressing your stance.
I'm glad you give a shit, Fartacus. You really do make the world a better place, and I'm not just saying that flippantly.
It's just that when your entire persona is "giving a shit", and you're constantly charging at whatever windmill you decide is the biggest that day, it comes off as just some kind of psychological compulsion to make sure the world is as politically correct as it can possibly be, rather than you holding the actual beliefs that you profess. That's admirable, but naive to the point of ridicule to me.
It's not my entire persona
it just seems like that this last week or so in [chat] because I made some jokey, off-hand remarks that other people decided to troll me on, or went ape-shit over
I am mainly defined by my love of sharp dressing, phat asses, sweet kicks, and generally being fantastic
but yes I am frequently and genuinely irritated by a lot of the stupid shit that I see
and when I make an off-hand remark it turns into a thing because that off-hand remark comes from a viewpoint not shared by a large chunk of this forum
I'm not complaining
I'm just explaining
I mean for instance I just made one post today about how I found the dickwolves thread depressing and gross, because it seemed to me to inescapably reek of misogyny and privilege and at the very least a distinct and troubling lack of empathy
I would have left it at that one post but folks felt like engaging in some debate on it and I'm game
I believe those who both protested and defended the t-shirt are guilty of phony outrage. Reasonable people shouldn't give a shit, but this is the internet.
I don't think I expressed outrage
I said I found the responses in the thread to be gross and depressing
and I found Mike and Jerry's behavior on the subject (especially Mike's) to be sort of tasteless and unbecoming
clearly I am still posting on their forum though, so
mike kind of has like, social issues.
Yeah amazingly growing up a disliked minority in highschool doesn't suddenly go away when you get older and richer. Amazing.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I make jewish jokes all the time, like at the store I said "I was afraid of Juice." and the checker looked at me kind of funny and I said "Juice you know like you drink, not jews, though I am scared about them taking over the media with their mind rays."
I'm constantly worried that I will pronounce YOU so that it sounds like jew. And that it will sound offensive in some contexts.
just play it off like you are cooban, joo know mang
Also known as the all pacino method.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The Internet just seems to find the word 'rape' hilarious. I guess when you're far removed enough from it it's just this absurd thing, almost ridiculous. I guess that changes when it happens to you or someone you know.
I feel that this is the case with pretty much any terrible thing used in a context of hyperbole. You are far enough removed from it so when you say something like "I'm starving" or "we murdered that team" or you make holocaust jokes or something it continues to be funny because there is a significant element of unreality to those concepts. If someone has actually experienced one of those things then they become a reality to them and the hyperbole isn't funny anymore.
I don't think that there is anything fundamentally wrong with that sort of humor, only that you have to be very aware of people for who these sort of things are a reality and how they will react to your joking about something. When you're just joking amongst friends you can account for the experiences of the people around you, but in different contexts you could be seriously upsetting someone.
I mean this is where 'privilege' comes in. It's been so overused in the feminist blogosphere that its basically lost all meaning, but I mean
it's a privilege to be able to use the term 'rape' without being reminded, even a little, of your own rape.
Of course, as Fro reminds us, rape survivors are not a monolith. But this is from my perspective.
And, Cass(I feel weird calling you Cass, but DreadPirate also seems weird because everybody calls you Cass, so... is it ok if I call you Cass?), I'm really, really not mocking you or your viewpoint. I want to make that particularly clear.
I'm a male victim of sexual abuse. I just don't really feel the same... whatever it is everybody else seems to. We're all individuals, I know. But I really, really, reeeeeeeeeally don't get what the problem with the joke was.
I didn't have a problem with the dickwolf comic.
I thought the followup comic was kind of dumb, because it seemed like they thought just using the word 'rape' over and over was funny, but I recognized that I didn't really know if that was the case and I didn't really care, the next update I stopped thinking about it.
I thought the t-shirt could really easily be interpeted as "team rapist", and more than that, was mocking survivors of rape. Even if Gabe meant it as a 'fuck you' to Shakesville, they're still rape survivors, and I was uncomfortable with that.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I make jewish jokes all the time, like at the store I said "I was afraid of Juice." and the checker looked at me kind of funny and I said "Juice you know like you drink, not jews, though I am scared about them taking over the media with their mind rays."
I'm constantly worried that I will pronounce YOU so that it sounds like jew. And that it will sound offensive in some contexts.
just play it off like you are cooban, joo know mang
My brothers don't know I've been raped, and its not because they're terrible human beings.
Survivors are not under any sort of obligation to tell their friends and family and be a symbol of why it's bad to use rape as a verb in regards to Halo.
Sorry, I was referring to the people you mentioned specifically (i.e. people who find rape hilarious)
also while you may not have shared that with them, they might have friends or other family members who have shared their experiences
I find that most men who are genuinely "allies" (for lack of a better term) pretty much never don't know someone who has been a victim of sexual violence
I hope this isn't just a convenient way for you to rationalize away unpleasant arguments that have implications you don't care to think about (I think "white guilt" is a term used mainly for this purpose).
I hope this isn't just a convenient way for you to rationalize away unpleasant arguments that have implications you don't care to think about (I think "white guilt" is a term used mainly for this purpose).
uh eddy isn't white
He's asian, that's like mega white, I mean even white people get to make fun of asians with impunity.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I believe those who both protested and defended the t-shirt are guilty of phony outrage. Reasonable people shouldn't give a shit, but this is the internet.
I don't think I expressed outrage
I said I found the responses in the thread to be gross and depressing
and I found Mike and Jerry's behavior on the subject (especially Mike's) to be sort of tasteless and unbecoming
clearly I am still posting on their forum though, so
mike kind of has like, social issues.
to the level he's medicated for them, if I remember correctly from older newsposts. maybe that was anxiety, though
I make jewish jokes all the time, like at the store I said "I was afraid of Juice." and the checker looked at me kind of funny and I said "Juice you know like you drink, not jews, though I am scared about them taking over the media with their mind rays."
I'm constantly worried that I will pronounce YOU so that it sounds like jew. And that it will sound offensive in some contexts.
just play it off like you are cooban, joo know mang
But then I'd have to live in Florida.
Yes, that's the best way to avoid accidentally offending any Jewish people.
Move to Florida.
Oy gevalt, look at dem pelicangs fly.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I find that most men who are genuinely "allies" (for lack of a better term) pretty much never don't know someone who has been a victim of sexual violence
That's all I meant
I'm not sure what this means. What is an "ally" here?
Aroused Bull on
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I make jewish jokes all the time, like at the store I said "I was afraid of Juice." and the checker looked at me kind of funny and I said "Juice you know like you drink, not jews, though I am scared about them taking over the media with their mind rays."
I'm constantly worried that I will pronounce YOU so that it sounds like jew. And that it will sound offensive in some contexts.
just play it off like you are cooban, joo know mang
But then I'd have to live in Florida.
Yes, that's the best way to avoid accidentally offending any Jewish people.
ok, differerent subject: ancient history is a fucking awesome subject.
Been reading "Egypt, Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times". It's very well sourced and (more importantly) more recent (1992, Princeton University Press) than a lot of the stuff that gets into textbooks or National Geographic stuff on TV (which, having seen a lot of what they added to netflix streaming, is actually really bad. especially the one about stone henge)
The main difference being the invention and later refinements in dating (starting with carbon dating which only got going in the 70s with any reliability, but later expanded to many very clever dating techniques) and more data from archeology (especially bronze age writings from the Hittites, Mari, Ugarit etc...)
Even really brilliant Egyptologists working earlier in the 20th century were so limited in the raw evidense available to them that large swaths of what is known about the ancient world has radicially changed since then.
Just finished several chapters about the "hyksos" ("foreign rulers" conquered Egypt following the end of the Old Kingdom) and they are so different from the common picture you would find in a textbook based on older scholarship (because mostly what that older scholarship had to work with was the writings of Hellenisitic and Roman era historians writing about events that, from their point of view, were over 1500 years in the past).
Posts
well everyone has someone they know who's been affected by it
they just don't know
because they're not the kind of person who would ever have that information shared with them
what I am suggesting is that maybe it doesn't really matter at all
and now OJ is offended
Don't squeeze the Juice!
I also bet $5 on eater of ants.
This is unfair.
My brothers don't know I've been raped, and its not because they're terrible human beings.
Survivors are not under any sort of obligation to tell their friends and family and be a symbol of why it's bad to use rape as a verb in regards to Halo.
No fair, you've got socialized medicine.
I'm constantly worried that I will pronounce YOU so that it sounds like jew. And that it will sound offensive in some contexts.
I question your motives for expressing your stance.
I said "straightforward" not "has a single definition"
but those are extremely similar
anyway I'm done with this because if people are going to be unreasonable for the sake of being unreasonable I'm not going to participate
This homonym-based joke is now availble in handy cartoon form.
That's why his $5 are actually only worth $1.37 after taxes.
mike kind of has like, social issues.
And, Cass(I feel weird calling you Cass, but DreadPirate also seems weird because everybody calls you Cass, so... is it ok if I call you Cass?), I'm really, really not mocking you or your viewpoint. I want to make that particularly clear.
I'm a male victim of sexual abuse. I just don't really feel the same... whatever it is everybody else seems to. We're all individuals, I know. But I really, really, reeeeeeeeeally don't get what the problem with the joke was.
just play it off like you are cooban, joo know mang
Shit, I've been rumbled!
It's not my entire persona
it just seems like that this last week or so in [chat] because I made some jokey, off-hand remarks that other people decided to troll me on, or went ape-shit over
I am mainly defined by my love of sharp dressing, phat asses, sweet kicks, and generally being fantastic
but yes I am frequently and genuinely irritated by a lot of the stupid shit that I see
and when I make an off-hand remark it turns into a thing because that off-hand remark comes from a viewpoint not shared by a large chunk of this forum
I'm not complaining
I'm just explaining
I mean for instance I just made one post today about how I found the dickwolves thread depressing and gross, because it seemed to me to inescapably reek of misogyny and privilege and at the very least a distinct and troubling lack of empathy
I would have left it at that one post but folks felt like engaging in some debate on it and I'm game
Takes two to tango is all I'm saying
Yeah amazingly growing up a disliked minority in highschool doesn't suddenly go away when you get older and richer. Amazing.
pleasepaypreacher.net
and neither is "excepted" if I want to get personal about it
Also known as the all pacino method.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I didn't have a problem with the dickwolf comic.
I thought the followup comic was kind of dumb, because it seemed like they thought just using the word 'rape' over and over was funny, but I recognized that I didn't really know if that was the case and I didn't really care, the next update I stopped thinking about it.
I thought the t-shirt could really easily be interpeted as "team rapist", and more than that, was mocking survivors of rape. Even if Gabe meant it as a 'fuck you' to Shakesville, they're still rape survivors, and I was uncomfortable with that.
But then I'd have to live in Florida.
Sorry, I was referring to the people you mentioned specifically (i.e. people who find rape hilarious)
also while you may not have shared that with them, they might have friends or other family members who have shared their experiences
I find that most men who are genuinely "allies" (for lack of a better term) pretty much never don't know someone who has been a victim of sexual violence
That's all I meant
I used to be just Cass, and then I got a name change to Dread Pirate Cassandra, and then when I tried to change back to Cass I lost the coin flip.
uh eddy isn't white
Fartacus isn't black?
What a country!
He's asian, that's like mega white, I mean even white people get to make fun of asians with impunity.
pleasepaypreacher.net
to the level he's medicated for them, if I remember correctly from older newsposts. maybe that was anxiety, though
Yes, that's the best way to avoid accidentally offending any Jewish people.
Move to Florida.
Oy gevalt, look at dem pelicangs fly.
I AM TRANSPARENT!
this is a common misapprehension
the "rapeatorium" was actually just a large structure used for storing logs
I'm not sure what this means. What is an "ally" here?
I... I didn't know.
I'll have to live in New Jersey then!
Oh wait!
Been reading "Egypt, Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times". It's very well sourced and (more importantly) more recent (1992, Princeton University Press) than a lot of the stuff that gets into textbooks or National Geographic stuff on TV (which, having seen a lot of what they added to netflix streaming, is actually really bad. especially the one about stone henge)
The main difference being the invention and later refinements in dating (starting with carbon dating which only got going in the 70s with any reliability, but later expanded to many very clever dating techniques) and more data from archeology (especially bronze age writings from the Hittites, Mari, Ugarit etc...)
Even really brilliant Egyptologists working earlier in the 20th century were so limited in the raw evidense available to them that large swaths of what is known about the ancient world has radicially changed since then.
Just finished several chapters about the "hyksos" ("foreign rulers" conquered Egypt following the end of the Old Kingdom) and they are so different from the common picture you would find in a textbook based on older scholarship (because mostly what that older scholarship had to work with was the writings of Hellenisitic and Roman era historians writing about events that, from their point of view, were over 1500 years in the past).