The disadvantage to the super units is having to float the massive store of resources needed for them.
In the time it takes to tech to tier 3, then save for and build the Baneblade, an IG player could have built 2 Ogryn squads with Bone'eads and raped a power farm. All the super units have a distorting presence on the battlefield, as they tend to draw people's fire, when for the most part they should be the last thing targeted in the enemy army.
The Baneblade especially inspires massive hate, due to its high hp and vehicle armor requiring actual AV units to kill it.
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
An early Baneblade absolutely destroyed my three squads of VC Warriors in a frontal assault. I couldn't ambush him from behind either because he had flank support - by an early Land Raider (3v3). Funnily enough we still won because they completely ignored victory points, but our armies were almost non-existant at that point.
The tier 4 unit race is ridicules - looks like I'm mainly in for the campaign again. I really do have high hopes for the campaign though.
I assume you mean the tier 3 super unit race.
In which you are absolutely correct.
I doubt that they will hold like this forever though.
While I do agree all the new super units need a look at (though the Battlewagon for a completly different reason) I don't think they are the GG unit everyone thinks they are.
I had one match where I took out 2 Baneblades with 2 squads of Melta Stormtroopers, an IG squad and a Commisar Lord with the Fist of Brokus and Artillery Call-in. Artillery power and IG squad killed or scared off most of the Infantry supporting/repairing, and the Fist of Brokus's power keept the Stormtroopers at full strengh as the Commisar Lord punched it in melee, inside the min. range of the demolisher cannon and main gun. Still lost the match (reason why I was using such a power-light strat) but I felt like a badass, especially since one ally had quit early on and the other wanted to concced as soon as the first one showed up.
I think they are pretty bad. Though I hesitate to say they should be removed or heavily nerfed because I have some hope that the battlewagon will be made not shit at some point...and that might be really fun.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
baneblades horribly fuck over everything on the map
the eldar just don't have enough faith in their vehicles that's all
No. Flying anti-gravity tanks being slower and less manueverable than tanks with wheels is pants on head retarded. Lower the damage if you want for balance reasons or whatever, but eldar should not have the slowest tanks.
Its nothing to do with faith, it simply doesn't make sense.
the eldar just don't have enough faith in their vehicles that's all
No. Flying anti-gravity tanks being slower and less manueverable than tanks with wheels is pants on head retarded. Lower the damage if you want for balance reasons or whatever, but eldar should not have the slowest tanks.
Its nothing to do with faith.
The longest ranged and largest aoe tank in the game should not also have the most mobility.
Though it would be nice if the Falcon was a bit faster.
Eldar tanks pay for that range by having the lowest damage (AV) and the lowest HP of the other tanks.
They are also the slowest.
This is why good eldar players get D-cannons instead of FirePrisms. They dont need to switch modes, move at the same rate, and sacrifice having to setup to get a decent ability.
Falcons have more HP when you factor in their Shield, but they have pitiful AV/AI damage. (Their total AI damage with main turret is close to that of a predator with no main turret I recall).
Oh yes, and Falcons have the same range as any other infantry / troop transport. And req/pow cost that is closer to a predator than a razorback.
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MWO: Adamski
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
I don't see why an imaginary hover technology automatically equates to fast. Maybe all of the energy in it's dumb engine has to go to keeping it hovering so it doesn't have enough power to move forward quickly.
That could be, except in the Tabletop all the Eldar tanks are faster than their Imperial or Ork etc counter parts.
It isnt like speeding up just the Eldar grav vehicles would unbalance the game, the things are already squishy as shit, and do generally piss poor damage. With a speed boost, you could actually run them away before they got in trouble and they would actually get away. As opposed to now where you start running before they get detected and they still go pop.
I don't see why an imaginary hover technology automatically equates to fast. Maybe all of the energy in it's dumb engine has to go to keeping it hovering so it doesn't have enough power to move forward quickly.
More so that in the W40k game, the Eldar skimmers were always faster than any ground bound tank, but they had weaker armor and crashed (removing it from play) if it suffered even some minor damage. So watching falcons lazily drift about was a bit jarring at first.
I don't see why an imaginary hover technology automatically equates to fast. Maybe all of the energy in it's dumb engine has to go to keeping it hovering so it doesn't have enough power to move forward quickly.
Okay, first, what darksier, mechmantis, and gnome said.
And second, use a little common sense.
What possible reason would you have to install super advanced anti-gravity technology on a tank if it made it worse than basic wheels?
To save on tires. Not having to ship tires across the galaxy probably saves them tons of money.
Also "It isnt like speeding up just the Eldar grav vehicles would unbalance the game" - I don't agree with this. I almost always grab a falcon as eldar already, making them intensely microable out of danger would be an issue.
And just because they can't jump like in dawn of war 1 doesn't mean they should get some other kind of advantage to make up for it. They are entirely different games. Tankbustas can't stealth either anymore...making them a lot more difficult to use effectively. That said I don't really see anything wrong with them being the fastest vehicles in the game as long as its all balanced out. But to suggest that making them faster (especially assuming we are primarily talking about acceleration since vehicles don't have far to travel in this game anyways) won't mess with balance is really...well not very thoughtful.
Speaking of tanks, have there been any changes to Looted Tanks in the last two years? I remember I used to love these things but now I am having a lot of trouble making them work for me.
If I'm playing eldar I love it when my enemy builds tanks. Warp to haywire, and then my wraithlord jams his wraithsword clean through the fucker, or cuts it down with his lance as it tries to run.
God I love the wraithlord. Best dred in the game imo.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Speaking of tanks, have there been any changes to Looted Tanks in the last two years? I remember I used to love these things but now I am having a lot of trouble making them work for me.
I don't know when you stopped playing exactly, but I think they had some speed and HP changes sometime after CR went live.
Also, eldar grav tanks are harder to hit as they move because of holo fields. For real though, eldar tanks, you are so slow, and your drivers, they are so dumb. Hey, fire prism, go here, face this way. "Oh, what's that? Put it in reverse and make sure I expose myself to rear armor hits?" "Power around the map ass-first? CAN DO!"
There's nothing quite as great as the seer council though, riding that lightning all over the place.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Spam Imperial Guardsmen
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CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
In the grim darkness of the far future there is only guardsmen blobs
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Do not have a cow, mortal.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
It's fun when I'm in T2 and I can reinforce in five seconds from one guardsman living
I've learned to keep a chimera in the retreat path, retreat the guardsmen after some casualties, then execute near the chimera to reinforce
I'm having lots of trouble as space marines staying competitive in the late game, I can do okay with devastator squads and scouts early but when heavy units start coming in I really don't know how to fight back.
CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Zen should I play this video game with you
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Are you okay with me fucking around and building no units, teching up to tier III as fast as possible, and shoving my Force Commander in Terminator Armor to burn to death an entire IG army?
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CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I am poop at this video game so I don't really care what happens
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
I'm having lots of trouble as space marines staying competitive in the late game, I can do okay with devastator squads and scouts early but when heavy units start coming in I really don't know how to fight back.
Well if they've got vehicles coming out, that's when you equip a Tac squad with a missile. Good thing about Tac squads, you can re-spec them, so even if you bought a flamer earlier you can still switch to a missile later.
Devastators can be upgraded to Las Cannons, which makes for really solid AV, and slows down what they hit. ASM are a soft melee counter with their sergeant and Melta bombs. Plasma Devastators can deter vehicles as well and make good anti-infantry, but like regular Devastators be weary of them getting targeted for jump-in attacks and melee.
With commanders, Force Commander can get a powerfist that's very effective against vehicles. TechMarine gets the Orb which halts vehicles in their tracks, great for setting them up for other units to take them down.
Apothecary can't do too much against vehicles. Poweraxe maybe? Don't think it'll do much.
For heavier infantry you want Tacs with plasma guns. Dreadnought with Assault Cannon is also good, but expensive and will delay your teching to level 3.
What's happening with your devastators when the heavier units hit the field? Do they just get hit with jump troops?
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Assault terminators are serial rapists. They will shred basically anything.
Terminators of all flavours are bastards, but I hate assault terminators the most because you can sortov counter regular terminators with high level buffed banshees.
Not really, but it kinda works.
To kill assault terminators you basically need those same banshees, plus an avatar, and even then...
Cost the same as a space marine and have half the health and take a shit ton more damage if you want them to sneeze on people?
Sure thing sign me the fuck up!
Storm troopers are great. They're a finesse unit that will really, really preform for you if you use them right, and will get massacred if you use them wrong.
They're one of the few units that feel like dow1 IG.
If I'm playing eldar I love it when my enemy builds tanks. Warp to haywire, and then my wraithlord jams his wraithsword clean through the fucker, or cuts it down with his lance as it tries to run.
God I love the wraithlord. Best dred in the game imo.
Didnt they disable the wraithlord brightlance from firing on the move?
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I assume you mean the tier 3 super unit race.
In which you are absolutely correct.
I doubt that they will hold like this forever though.
In the time it takes to tech to tier 3, then save for and build the Baneblade, an IG player could have built 2 Ogryn squads with Bone'eads and raped a power farm. All the super units have a distorting presence on the battlefield, as they tend to draw people's fire, when for the most part they should be the last thing targeted in the enemy army.
The Baneblade especially inspires massive hate, due to its high hp and vehicle armor requiring actual AV units to kill it.
While I do agree all the new super units need a look at (though the Battlewagon for a completly different reason) I don't think they are the GG unit everyone thinks they are.
I had one match where I took out 2 Baneblades with 2 squads of Melta Stormtroopers, an IG squad and a Commisar Lord with the Fist of Brokus and Artillery Call-in. Artillery power and IG squad killed or scared off most of the Infantry supporting/repairing, and the Fist of Brokus's power keept the Stormtroopers at full strengh as the Commisar Lord punched it in melee, inside the min. range of the demolisher cannon and main gun. Still lost the match (reason why I was using such a power-light strat) but I felt like a badass, especially since one ally had quit early on and the other wanted to concced as soon as the first one showed up.
No. Flying anti-gravity tanks being slower and less manueverable than tanks with wheels is pants on head retarded. Lower the damage if you want for balance reasons or whatever, but eldar should not have the slowest tanks.
Its nothing to do with faith, it simply doesn't make sense.
The longest ranged and largest aoe tank in the game should not also have the most mobility.
Though it would be nice if the Falcon was a bit faster.
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They are also the slowest.
This is why good eldar players get D-cannons instead of FirePrisms. They dont need to switch modes, move at the same rate, and sacrifice having to setup to get a decent ability.
Falcons have more HP when you factor in their Shield, but they have pitiful AV/AI damage. (Their total AI damage with main turret is close to that of a predator with no main turret I recall).
Oh yes, and Falcons have the same range as any other infantry / troop transport. And req/pow cost that is closer to a predator than a razorback.
MWO: Adamski
It isnt like speeding up just the Eldar grav vehicles would unbalance the game, the things are already squishy as shit, and do generally piss poor damage. With a speed boost, you could actually run them away before they got in trouble and they would actually get away. As opposed to now where you start running before they get detected and they still go pop.
MWO: Adamski
More so that in the W40k game, the Eldar skimmers were always faster than any ground bound tank, but they had weaker armor and crashed (removing it from play) if it suffered even some minor damage. So watching falcons lazily drift about was a bit jarring at first.
Okay, first, what darksier, mechmantis, and gnome said.
And second, use a little common sense.
What possible reason would you have to install super advanced anti-gravity technology on a tank if it made it worse than basic wheels?
Its not like they can jump like in DOW1.
Also "It isnt like speeding up just the Eldar grav vehicles would unbalance the game" - I don't agree with this. I almost always grab a falcon as eldar already, making them intensely microable out of danger would be an issue.
And just because they can't jump like in dawn of war 1 doesn't mean they should get some other kind of advantage to make up for it. They are entirely different games. Tankbustas can't stealth either anymore...making them a lot more difficult to use effectively. That said I don't really see anything wrong with them being the fastest vehicles in the game as long as its all balanced out. But to suggest that making them faster (especially assuming we are primarily talking about acceleration since vehicles don't have far to travel in this game anyways) won't mess with balance is really...well not very thoughtful.
easy to keep floating by blowing air against it
If I'm playing eldar I love it when my enemy builds tanks. Warp to haywire, and then my wraithlord jams his wraithsword clean through the fucker, or cuts it down with his lance as it tries to run.
God I love the wraithlord. Best dred in the game imo.
There's nothing quite as great as the seer council though, riding that lightning all over the place.
I've learned to keep a chimera in the retreat path, retreat the guardsmen after some casualties, then execute near the chimera to reinforce
It's like a mobile relay station!
Cost the same as a space marine and have half the health and take a shit ton more damage if you want them to sneeze on people?
Sure thing sign me the fuck up!
fan fucking tastic
Well if they've got vehicles coming out, that's when you equip a Tac squad with a missile. Good thing about Tac squads, you can re-spec them, so even if you bought a flamer earlier you can still switch to a missile later.
Devastators can be upgraded to Las Cannons, which makes for really solid AV, and slows down what they hit. ASM are a soft melee counter with their sergeant and Melta bombs. Plasma Devastators can deter vehicles as well and make good anti-infantry, but like regular Devastators be weary of them getting targeted for jump-in attacks and melee.
With commanders, Force Commander can get a powerfist that's very effective against vehicles. TechMarine gets the Orb which halts vehicles in their tracks, great for setting them up for other units to take them down.
Apothecary can't do too much against vehicles. Poweraxe maybe? Don't think it'll do much.
For heavier infantry you want Tacs with plasma guns. Dreadnought with Assault Cannon is also good, but expensive and will delay your teching to level 3.
What's happening with your devastators when the heavier units hit the field? Do they just get hit with jump troops?
Terminators of all flavours are bastards, but I hate assault terminators the most because you can sortov counter regular terminators with high level buffed banshees.
Not really, but it kinda works.
To kill assault terminators you basically need those same banshees, plus an avatar, and even then...
Storm troopers are great. They're a finesse unit that will really, really preform for you if you use them right, and will get massacred if you use them wrong.
They're one of the few units that feel like dow1 IG.
Didnt they disable the wraithlord brightlance from firing on the move?
MWO: Adamski