i must be one of the few who got into this late but really likes the campaign. i had some questions about how one would best spec the squads. i just finished the original campaign and started CR, and took that chance to reset my skill points. on FC, tarkus and thaddeus I think i maxed health, on cyrus energy then some health/ranged, and then on avitus, max ranged, enough health to get sprint, and then working on energy. it seems like energy spec is pretty awesome on everyone now.
my main question was about what damage spec to use. i like melee, but i notice that against stronger enemies, only the FC can stand in there, and he can't even go toe-to-toe against everything. thaddeus can't even last in terminator armor, though i'll probably still leave him melee to terminator, then get more energy. the main thing is the FC, should i leave him melee or focus on ranged with him? i plan to put him back in terminator armor when i can.
Feldorn on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Its dps seemed pretty bad, and we were using it on guardmen, against chaos or sm i'd imagine its abysmal. But I never thought to test it on gens.
It's ironic because the banewolf is surreally good on tabletop against marines and power armour type units because of its incredible armour penetration.
Banewolf is excellent. Plays perfectly to the strengths of IG's currently crazy tier 1.
The IG can get away with minimal power expenditures in tier one. They have their melee counter as soon as it is built (The sentinel). You'd be wise to pick up a HMG or Catachan depending on your tastes, and maybe a piece of wargear (Lord General grenades, for example). For the inquisitor maybe the Brazier? Haven't experimented with her much.
Regardless, I find I spend about 50-60 power whereas with most other races I average 80-100 in tier 1.
It's easy to rack up 150 global resource in tier 1. As soon as you hit tier 2 you can drop the banewolf and guarantee about one minute where the enemy will have no counter. With it's flamer damage type you can burn out their power and set them far behind, perhaps even delaying their teching further. The banewolf's damage is not incredible, but it slows and does do constant, consistent damage and keeps people out of cover (where it does much more, I think the flamer mulitplier for green cover is 2.5x damage).
More useful than this though is that it has an effect on what the enemy must now do. They have to bring out AT, and fast, to protect their generators and maintain map control. Now you pump resources into plasma guardsmen, or an early Ogyrn squad. That new tactical missile squad will be quite lackluster against your new empowered infantry force. The banewolf, late game, acts as a good melee deterrent with it's slowing blast.
The banewolf should be looked at in the same way that the bloodcrusher and killa-kan are. They have a window where they are very potent and worth their cost (Mostly due to high health and vehicle armor). They can maintain usefulness in later battles, but you will never go buy one after you hit tier 3 or some other milestone.
Corp.Shephard on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I'd rather pump out a back-seat chimera for infinite on-the-field guardsmen, but yeah
I always feel in T2 against chaos I have to immediately build a Stormtrooper squad with melta guns because I just know if they hit T2 a bloodcrusher is coming
Zen Vulgarity on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
What's the general opinion on storm troopers?
I like the design idea but not sure how equal the various specialisations feel. For example, do many people buy the sprinting one?
surrealitycheck on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Don't get the hotdick upgrade because then they become the most fragile things since eldar
Yeah, so banewolf DPS vs buildings is shocking. Also it destroys base turrets in about 15 seconds.
CROAK! BASE TURRETS. 10-15 SECONDS! MUST FIX.
... but yeah, I didn't even think to test it on gens, given fluff wise its suppossed to be used exclusively on infantry. As others have said, if you rush t2, and drop it by the power it preforms excellently.
The stealth stormtroopers are useless, for example. You get sprint and stealth, but they can't be used together and you're stuck with shitty weapons? There are so many more useful things to invest in. They're just not combat capable in a tier 2 world. They're a stealth unit with no ability to surprise people with a deadly attack. Kommandoz do pretty terrible damage for a tier 3 unit, but they have disruption and can engineer circumstances where they do great damage through grenades and knockback, all the while scouting and gathering useful information.
To add insult to injury Stormtrooper sight radius is god awful. I remember trying to use one for scouting in a FFA and nearly bumping into enemy units while groping around in the fog of war. Stealth stormtroopers need something.
On paper, hot-shot las seems pretty good (four or so plasma weapons with long range? Not bad), but they're very fragile and don't seem worth it either. I haven't even used these once, so I won't comment to much more on them.
Melta stormtroopers are the best. Melta weapons are reliable and can be used to tackle many different targets. The melta-bomb is the perfect anti-vehicular insurance that will quickly shut down a walker rush.
Stormtroopers feel like the low power AT option that every race is supposed to have with a little variation added in for good measure.
Corp.Shephard on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
God it was fun to load up three storm troopers into a chimera and poop them out right next to a walker
I'd rather pump out a back-seat chimera for infinite on-the-field guardsmen, but yeah
I always feel in T2 against chaos I have to immediately build a Stormtrooper squad with melta guns because I just know if they hit T2 a bloodcrusher is coming
Why build a Bloodcrusher when Bloodletters do a million damage, and can teleport and turn invincible?
Akira on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I don't play chaos and my TS is shit so people still think bloodcrushers are jawsome
Bloodcrushers are awesome. But I basically accept that Chaos requires cultist worshiping in tier 2 for bloodcrushers and bloodletters to be fully destructive. Of course since my army usually is cultist, more cultist and then demons that probably explains a lot. Also maybe some marines or other support for the cultist.
Hotshot stormtroopers with the generals range increase can fire from a screen away. Nothing can touch them in team games in terms of raw range. Until you get a manticore barrage on your head at least.
Hotshot stormtroopers with the generals range increase can fire from a screen away. Nothing can touch them in team games in terms of raw range. Until you get a manticore barrage on your head at least.
Any IG players out there have any bloody idea how to deal with an apoc and ASM? Guardsmen en masse seem to have a hard enough time early game doing enough damage to even the apoc to force him to retreat, especially with the standard tac squad picking things to pieces aswell. I've yet to really try sentinels (I know, etc) but quite frankly against SM they could just switch to tacs and render those useless anyway. Supression teams without buildings are a waste of time, and catachans can't really salvage much once the ASM are in the middle of your guardsmen - sure they can supress and do a bit of melee damage, but by the time your guardsmen reorganise the ASM will be back on their feet anyway.
Hotshot stormtroopers with the generals range increase can fire from a screen away. Nothing can touch them in team games in terms of raw range. Until you get a manticore barrage on your head at least.
Sentinal stomp will stun them, allowing your forces to regroup away.
Otherwise Commissar with Powersword and his bubble can take the Apoth head on, while you try to kite the ASM about.
I dont know what it is about the IG HWT but it really doesnt seem worth the cost, and I would recommend forgoing it entirely, and have the Catachans be the only power cost for T1 outside of maybe a commander upgrade.
The IG can get away with minimal power expenditures in tier one. They have their melee counter as soon as it is built (The sentinel). You'd be wise to pick up a HMG or Catachan depending on your tastes, and maybe a piece of wargear (Lord General grenades, for example). For the inquisitor maybe the Brazier? Haven't experimented with her much.
Inquisitor Brasier is pretty much in the same catagory as the Lord General's Grenade launcher; you always want it, and the only reason you'd switch out is for the commander's AV weapon instead. Holy Pyre is not only very effective against large infantry squads (it's damage is a little too low to bother tacs or commanders by itself, but that's what Hammer of the Witches is for ) but it also lasts a very, very long time... Though, if you're dealing with turrets in T1 (and because of the location and/or it's too early in the match, you can't consider just dropping a Banewolf the moment you hit T2) you might want to get her T1 armor instead, which allows her to infiltrate a single squad, ala the Kommando Nob Hide da Boyz Global, and sneak a squad behind it's firing arc.
As for Commisar Lord... is Stubborness T1? If not, best upgrade to consider picking up is the Power Sword. Lead by Example buffs your squads' damage without killing any of them (which is a plus if your learry about doing that until you have a Chimera to reinforce on the spot) and the speed buff in gives to the Commisar means he can rush in and tie up ranged squads faster.
Foefaller on
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
Do LOLManticores 1-2-3-shot units in building too? I spend so much time building a nice defense line and then LOLManticores destroy everything in mere seconds. And fucking Sentinels just walk over everything
New patch for tommorow, and with it, the thing we wanted most!
Beta Update 3.7
...
Balance changes Land Raider
•The assault cannon and heavy flamers no longer suppress infantry
•Multi-melta damage reduced from 100 to 80
•Heal aura now increases a units regeneration by 100%, down from 150%
•Health reduced from 3500 to 3000
... Baneblade
•Left and right lascannon damage reduced from 65 to 55
•Health decreased from 4200 to 3750
... Swarmlord
•Speed synapse now increases a units speed by 1.5 rather than multiplying it by 1.5
•Speed synapse radius lowered from 32 to 27
•Melee resistance damage reduction reduced from 0.45 to 0.6
That's right, nerfs on Land Raider, Baneblade and Swarmlord!
The nerfs seem fairly small though. Maybe it's one of those compounding issues where it doesn't look like much, but in the long run, it can be noticeable.
So how do I import my stats? It just says it cant be done every time i click with out any details.
Boot up chaos rising, play a matchmaking game of any kind.
I don't think you even really need to win or do anything special, just wait like two minutes and surrender. I did a head on head and base-raped a guy who didn't know how to retreat. It was dirty, but thankfully quick.
After I did this, it asked if I wanted to import when I booted retribution and I got all my stats carried over.
So how do I import my stats? It just says it cant be done every time i click with out any details.
Boot up chaos rising, play a matchmaking game of any kind.
I don't think you even really need to win or do anything special, just wait like two minutes and surrender. I did a head on head and base-raped a guy who didn't know how to retreat. It was dirty, but thankfully quick.
After I did this, it asked if I wanted to import when I booted retribution and I got all my stats carried over.
So guys, just to keep you up to date, it looks like that 2012 shit was on the money.
End of the world, all that jazz. Yeah I know I thought it was pseudoscience too, but I'm playing with goomba these days and well...
Hes playing IG, and bitching about how Eldar are overpowered.
---
Yes, really.
Totally true though Eldar are a bs race. Hurf durf extra commander and op infantry squad.
Also I saw this on the official forums and it is fantastic.
randombattle on
I never asked for this!
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
Is anyone even bothering with Imperial Guards anymore? I grew sick of seeing them die to some Chaos/Eldar spell or some other silly thing just because I wasn't paying attention for a microsecond. I normally just start with 2 Sentinels now.
Is anyone even bothering with Imperial Guards anymore? I grew sick of seeing them die to some Chaos/Eldar spell or some other silly thing just because I wasn't paying attention for a microsecond. I normally just start with 2 Sentinels now.
I keep trying, but does feel like I'm being punished for keeping my army alive by being forced to retreat and reinforce every other minute against half decent players. So I just get a manticore and have fun annoying people that way instead.
As of last night, the dark flames global from the sorc started to get really very very annoying for this very reason. If it touches a full health guardsman squad atall, it seems to bring them down to about half health or lower. And it will hit them. All of them. Yes I shouldn't blob as much, but sometimes it really isn't an option...
altid on
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
oh great the Exarch grenades killed an entire CSM squad at full health. And I lost a full health predator to one volley from a Manticore - again. Multiplayer is the same fuckfest as always
Dawn of you have two seconds to dodge the shiny symbols on the ground II
played three games, won em all, autarch is all kinds of awesome.
avatar is still weaksauce though.
Yeah I found the Autarch weak at first, but that was because I was trying to use her as a super-unit / hero. She can't take on armies by herself but she tanks really well with her shield, and gives good support to surrounding units with her jump-in-heal and aura.
Avatar I'm finding OK so far, though admittedly my experience with it is limited to about 3-4 games maybe. I'd say it's primarily focussed against infantry as opposed to vehicles, anything that tries to stand up to it typically gets flattened. I've had Wailing Doom decimate whole armies (at least enough to cause them to mass retreat) and one-shot IG bunkers. Plus he's got 5600 health compared to the Baneblade's (soon to be) 3750. Even with concentrated AV fire it's difficult to take him down, assuming he's not left unattended as I have done by accident on one occasion. :oops:
Like the Autarch you use him alongside the rest of your army, his aura making them suppression immune and enhancing ranged damage resistance.
Basically I'd use him to deal with supporting infantry and tank damage whilst you get your other units to try to pummel the Baneblade. If the BB isn't moving, then you drive him closer to hit them with his sword. Haywire grenades are useful for that. Otherwise, the Baneblade's pretty slow at turning and once the supporting infantry's been cleared out, I can usually get the Autarch or Banshees behind it to block its path and attack it from behind. Its guns are pretty ineffective once you get behind it.
New expansion comes out -> Play team games with friends "Hey this is fun" -> Assholes figure out all the broken shit "Fuck this game" -> Maybe 1v1 is more balanced? -> Beat up scrubs for a while -> "No Dreadnought don't sync kill that guy, now the missile squad can get away and kill you noooo" -> Quit until the next expansion
Actually I'm impressed with how fast patches are coming out now, if that keeps up and we get a global nerf to Global AoEs then we're golden.
Akira on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Though it may feel that way when facing the IG, with the Manticore dropping them on your head every 30s and some IG commanders have 2 different low cost artillery call ins as well.
Posts
my main question was about what damage spec to use. i like melee, but i notice that against stronger enemies, only the FC can stand in there, and he can't even go toe-to-toe against everything. thaddeus can't even last in terminator armor, though i'll probably still leave him melee to terminator, then get more energy. the main thing is the FC, should i leave him melee or focus on ranged with him? i plan to put him back in terminator armor when i can.
It's ironic because the banewolf is surreally good on tabletop against marines and power armour type units because of its incredible armour penetration.
The IG can get away with minimal power expenditures in tier one. They have their melee counter as soon as it is built (The sentinel). You'd be wise to pick up a HMG or Catachan depending on your tastes, and maybe a piece of wargear (Lord General grenades, for example). For the inquisitor maybe the Brazier? Haven't experimented with her much.
Regardless, I find I spend about 50-60 power whereas with most other races I average 80-100 in tier 1.
It's easy to rack up 150 global resource in tier 1. As soon as you hit tier 2 you can drop the banewolf and guarantee about one minute where the enemy will have no counter. With it's flamer damage type you can burn out their power and set them far behind, perhaps even delaying their teching further. The banewolf's damage is not incredible, but it slows and does do constant, consistent damage and keeps people out of cover (where it does much more, I think the flamer mulitplier for green cover is 2.5x damage).
More useful than this though is that it has an effect on what the enemy must now do. They have to bring out AT, and fast, to protect their generators and maintain map control. Now you pump resources into plasma guardsmen, or an early Ogyrn squad. That new tactical missile squad will be quite lackluster against your new empowered infantry force. The banewolf, late game, acts as a good melee deterrent with it's slowing blast.
The banewolf should be looked at in the same way that the bloodcrusher and killa-kan are. They have a window where they are very potent and worth their cost (Mostly due to high health and vehicle armor). They can maintain usefulness in later battles, but you will never go buy one after you hit tier 3 or some other milestone.
I always feel in T2 against chaos I have to immediately build a Stormtrooper squad with melta guns because I just know if they hit T2 a bloodcrusher is coming
I like the design idea but not sure how equal the various specialisations feel. For example, do many people buy the sprinting one?
CROAK! BASE TURRETS. 10-15 SECONDS! MUST FIX.
... but yeah, I didn't even think to test it on gens, given fluff wise its suppossed to be used exclusively on infantry. As others have said, if you rush t2, and drop it by the power it preforms excellently.
The stealth stormtroopers are useless, for example. You get sprint and stealth, but they can't be used together and you're stuck with shitty weapons? There are so many more useful things to invest in. They're just not combat capable in a tier 2 world. They're a stealth unit with no ability to surprise people with a deadly attack. Kommandoz do pretty terrible damage for a tier 3 unit, but they have disruption and can engineer circumstances where they do great damage through grenades and knockback, all the while scouting and gathering useful information.
To add insult to injury Stormtrooper sight radius is god awful. I remember trying to use one for scouting in a FFA and nearly bumping into enemy units while groping around in the fog of war. Stealth stormtroopers need something.
On paper, hot-shot las seems pretty good (four or so plasma weapons with long range? Not bad), but they're very fragile and don't seem worth it either. I haven't even used these once, so I won't comment to much more on them.
Melta stormtroopers are the best. Melta weapons are reliable and can be used to tackle many different targets. The melta-bomb is the perfect anti-vehicular insurance that will quickly shut down a walker rush.
Stormtroopers feel like the low power AT option that every race is supposed to have with a little variation added in for good measure.
Guy shit bricks
Why build a Bloodcrusher when Bloodletters do a million damage, and can teleport and turn invincible?
Oh yeah, tell them my secret why dont you. :P
So, any ideas?
I was getting bored with it anyway. :P
Otherwise Commissar with Powersword and his bubble can take the Apoth head on, while you try to kite the ASM about.
I dont know what it is about the IG HWT but it really doesnt seem worth the cost, and I would recommend forgoing it entirely, and have the Catachans be the only power cost for T1 outside of maybe a commander upgrade.
The rest of it, just try to hold on for T2.
MWO: Adamski
Inquisitor Brasier is pretty much in the same catagory as the Lord General's Grenade launcher; you always want it, and the only reason you'd switch out is for the commander's AV weapon instead. Holy Pyre is not only very effective against large infantry squads (it's damage is a little too low to bother tacs or commanders by itself, but that's what Hammer of the Witches is for
As for Commisar Lord... is Stubborness T1? If not, best upgrade to consider picking up is the Power Sword. Lead by Example buffs your squads' damage without killing any of them (which is a plus if your learry about doing that until you have a Chimera to reinforce on the spot) and the speed buff in gives to the Commisar means he can rush in and tie up ranged squads faster.
That's right, nerfs on Land Raider, Baneblade and Swarmlord!
Read the whole thing Here
I never asked for this!
http://beta.humugus.com/index.php/auth/register/inv/1966
Boot up chaos rising, play a matchmaking game of any kind.
I don't think you even really need to win or do anything special, just wait like two minutes and surrender. I did a head on head and base-raped a guy who didn't know how to retreat. It was dirty, but thankfully quick.
After I did this, it asked if I wanted to import when I booted retribution and I got all my stats carried over.
Oh I uninstalled when the beta came out.
I never asked for this!
End of the world, all that jazz. Yeah I know I thought it was pseudoscience too, but I'm playing with goomba these days and well...
Hes playing IG, and bitching about how Eldar are overpowered.
---
Yes, really.
Also I saw this on the official forums and it is fantastic.
I never asked for this!
Also yeah, that is fantastic.
Space Marines unwind after a battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPIN4MidP5o
I keep trying, but does feel like I'm being punished for keeping my army alive by being forced to retreat and reinforce every other minute against half decent players. So I just get a manticore and have fun annoying people that way instead.
As of last night, the dark flames global from the sorc started to get really very very annoying for this very reason. If it touches a full health guardsman squad atall, it seems to bring them down to about half health or lower. And it will hit them. All of them. Yes I shouldn't blob as much, but sometimes it really isn't an option...
Dawn of you have two seconds to dodge the shiny symbols on the ground II
avatar is still weaksauce though.
The bitching
It feeds me
Yeah I found the Autarch weak at first, but that was because I was trying to use her as a super-unit / hero. She can't take on armies by herself but she tanks really well with her shield, and gives good support to surrounding units with her jump-in-heal and aura.
Avatar I'm finding OK so far, though admittedly my experience with it is limited to about 3-4 games maybe. I'd say it's primarily focussed against infantry as opposed to vehicles, anything that tries to stand up to it typically gets flattened. I've had Wailing Doom decimate whole armies (at least enough to cause them to mass retreat) and one-shot IG bunkers. Plus he's got 5600 health compared to the Baneblade's (soon to be) 3750. Even with concentrated AV fire it's difficult to take him down, assuming he's not left unattended as I have done by accident on one occasion. :oops:
Like the Autarch you use him alongside the rest of your army, his aura making them suppression immune and enhancing ranged damage resistance.
Basically I'd use him to deal with supporting infantry and tank damage whilst you get your other units to try to pummel the Baneblade. If the BB isn't moving, then you drive him closer to hit them with his sword. Haywire grenades are useful for that. Otherwise, the Baneblade's pretty slow at turning and once the supporting infantry's been cleared out, I can usually get the Autarch or Banshees behind it to block its path and attack it from behind. Its guns are pretty ineffective once you get behind it.
New expansion comes out -> Play team games with friends "Hey this is fun" -> Assholes figure out all the broken shit "Fuck this game" -> Maybe 1v1 is more balanced? -> Beat up scrubs for a while -> "No Dreadnought don't sync kill that guy, now the missile squad can get away and kill you noooo" -> Quit until the next expansion
Actually I'm impressed with how fast patches are coming out now, if that keeps up and we get a global nerf to Global AoEs then we're golden.
Though it may feel that way when facing the IG, with the Manticore dropping them on your head every 30s and some IG commanders have 2 different low cost artillery call ins as well.
MWO: Adamski
Why you gotta be like that