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Package delivered to old apartment, new tenant feigns ignorance, any recourse?

SaraLunaSaraLuna Registered User regular
edited February 2011 in Help / Advice Forum
Recently I bought an xbox live subscription card on ebay and had it shipped to my old address. (I knew paypal had my current info on file so I missed that ebay didn't on the confirmation screen with the big paypal logo :P )
The USPS had a change of address on file for me, but they delivered to the old place anyway. I have a delivery confirmation on it for last friday. My old roommate, who still lives in that same complex is gonna go ask the current tenant about it tomorrow, but he actually did the same thing a few months ago and the guy living there now up-and-down denied ever getting a package. My friend didn't pursue it as it was a $5 PC game but I don't want to let a $40 item slide if the guy just denies getting it.

Do I have any options for recovering my property should the need arise?

SaraLuna on

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    TopiaTopia Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Tell him you have proof (USPS tracking) and threaten him with legal action.

    Topia on
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    Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I take it he had to sign for it?

    If he doesn't cough it up report that shit to the post office.

    Macro9 on
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    saltinesssaltiness Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You're boned. Change your address with the sender next time. USPS tracking is about as reliable as, "My cousin's girlfriend's brother's dog saw it." You're not going to be able to prove he got the package.

    Edit: Unless he signed for it in which case you might be able to get the post office to report it stolen.

    saltiness on
    XBL: heavenkils
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Delivery confirmation does not require a signature. You can call the post office and explain your situation. There is a small chance that the letter carrier handed it personally to the guy, and remembers doing so. If he left it in the mailbox though the tenant can simply claim he never got such a thing in the mail.

    Regina Fong on
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    MrDelishMrDelish Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Doesn't make a difference if it was addressed to your name or not; mail is delivered as addressed, not to whom it is addressed. The USPS will also most certainly not do anything for you in this case beyond tell you what you already know. I worked almost two years telling this to people on USPS' customer support.

    Maybe a judge might take into consideration that the USPS probably delivered something to the address, but you won't get anything from the Post Office. Your most likely course of action is to hound the place you bought it from and hope they re-ship it. A chargeback through your bank is also an option but seems wildly unethical to me.

    MrDelish on
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If you'd shipped by UPS or something you might have a chance in hell... There's two rules about problems with the post office, though: They usually can't help, and when they can they usually won't.

    The guy it was sent to might have some legal protection, depending on your state. Back in the 80's some shady mail order places would send merchandise to people unsolicited and then bill them at the end of a trial period. In response, a few states like Michigan passed unsolicited delivery laws. In those states, if you didn't order it and it was still delivered, you can pretty much keep it and never pay for it, because as long as you don't notify the sender that you got it, you can't be legally held to possess the item, even if you're actively exercising ownership over it.

    Hevach on
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    Coarse LanguageCoarse Language Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It's an xbox live subscription card. I can get those at wal-mart for under twenty bucks. Call it a wash, you aren't going to court over it, you'll pay more for a judge's time anyway. You learned a twenty dollar lesson about proofreading order forms.

    Coarse Language on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    It should be also noted that change of address notifications have a time limit and the USPS ignores them after a certain amount of time.

    FyreWulff on
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    FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Simply to echo everyone here, you're pretty much fucked. Unless the guy admits getting the package and handing it over, there is nothing you can do. Take solace in the fact that you bought it off eBay and there's a good chance it wasn't a legit code anyway!

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
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    RusparRuspar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    MrDelish wrote: »
    Doesn't make a difference if it was addressed to your name or not; mail is delivered as addressed, not to whom it is addressed..

    Holy Way Wrong!

    It's a FEDERAL OFFENCE to open and/or dispose of mail that isn't addressed to you in YOUR NAME. It soooo makes a difference.

    If you can prove that your mail was delivered there and you haven't lived there for a while you can press charges of theft. I do believe it's also Technicaly fraud for accepting a package that isn't for you (eg. Doesn't have YOUR NAME ON IT)
    It's the responsibility of the current tenant to inform that there is no one by that name at that address, mark it as "Person Moved" and send it back.

    Anything else is Highly Illegal.

    So yeah, it Does, in fact make a difference who it's addressed to.



    But Anyways... I'm done playing Devil's Advocate... why would you buy a time code off ebay anyways? you are asking to get scammed. Every store that carries even the most basic electronic equipment sells the damn things. And yeah, you really should have been paying attention to what you were doing.

    But if you ever feel the need to do something stupid like that again, might I suggest a less painful route, Give me the money you were going to throw away, and I'll kick you in the junk. we'll both come out better for it.

    Ruspar on
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    Coarse LanguageCoarse Language Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    http://www.adrforum.com/users/naf/resources/NewJerseyCivilLitigationCosts.pdf

    For the arm chair lawyers that are bad at math. Enjoy.

    How much is a twenty dollar time code worth to you? Also, if you bought on ebay to avoid leaving your home you realize that you can use the very same credit card you used for ebay on xbl right? Ebay is the best place to buy things that were probably stolen. Stolen time cards don't get activated and are useless. If it wasn't stolen it was used.

    FUCK! 7-Eleven carries these things, you could walk to the joint and pay twenty dollars without worrying about shipping costs. If you buy a drink or a pack of smokes the price works out the same as ebay with shipping costs factored in. If you would like to throw free cash at my pay pal account I would be more than happy to take it.

    Coarse Language on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yes if filing the court claim costs more than the $40 (it will), you may have to cut your losses. What it costs taxpayers and the states really doesn't matter to someone who needs to get their property and money back. Shit I've taken people to court for $150 before, why? It's my money, and $150 > $50 (court fee), but it probably still cost the court money to try my case.

    Did you get insurance for the package? If yes, get the item amount refunded. If no, well, you've learned your lesson and hopefully will pay attention next time you do this.

    I will concur that it was incredibly silly to buy a card like this over ebay.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Was it illegal for the new tenant to open and keep his mail? shit yes.

    Can he prove anything or get his card back? Probably not.

    If you REALLY want to press it, ask the guy and tell him about the delivery confirmation and unless he gives you the package you will go to the police. More than likely, he'll slam the door in your face and you will be screwed. even if you followed up on that threat, i doubt they will be able or willing to do anything.

    Dr. Frenchenstein on
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    Coarse LanguageCoarse Language Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I think the police are a bit more concerned with chasing potheads than they are trying to solve the mystery of he said that she said that my video game shit was stolen.

    Coarse Language on
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I think the police are a bit more concerned with chasing potheads than they are trying to solve the mystery of he said that she said that my video game shit was stolen.

    Seriously. This sort of shit is so far under police radar they probably won't even bother giving you a decent excuse.

    Hevach on
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    MidshipmanMidshipman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Depending on what the package looked like, it's also possible that it was just thrown away. I get tons of mail from about 6-7 old tenants at my apartment. I usually just drop it in the recycle bin by the mailboxes. If it looked like an actual package (in a box, not an envelope), I'd take it to the manager's office so that they can send it back, but I'm not going to bother doing that for the 20 or so envelopes that I get every week.

    Midshipman on
    midshipman.jpg
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    MrDelishMrDelish Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ruspar wrote: »
    MrDelish wrote: »
    Doesn't make a difference if it was addressed to your name or not; mail is delivered as addressed, not to whom it is addressed..

    stuff.

    It doesn't make a difference to the Post Office. OP can try taking it up with the police and see what they do, but the Post Office will almost definitely do nothing.

    MrDelish on
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    kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Mail fraud is a federal crime. I'm not sure why Ruspar got infracted. If anyone would investigate this, it would be the United States Postal Inspection Service, not the cops. Threatening him may be more effective than anything else. At the very least if you report and nothing happens the guy will worry about it for a while.

    kaliyama on
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    tallgeezetallgeeze Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You mentioned complex, so I assume you mean apartments. I know from past experience that UPS delivers packages to the leasing office if you are not home. They do leave a notice on your door telling you that it's there, but that notice could fly away for any number of reasons.

    Have you checked the leasing office?

    tallgeeze on
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    Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Hevach wrote: »
    The guy it was sent to might have some legal protection, depending on your state. Back in the 80's some shady mail order places would send merchandise to people unsolicited and then bill them at the end of a trial period. In response, a few states like Michigan passed unsolicited delivery laws. In those states, if you didn't order it and it was still delivered, you can pretty much keep it and never pay for it, because as long as you don't notify the sender that you got it, you can't be legally held to possess the item, even if you're actively exercising ownership over it.
    Just to clarify this point- you can't legally keep something that was sent to another person. But if a company sends you something unsolicited, they can't bill you for it. It's like they sent you a free gift.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

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    Coarse LanguageCoarse Language Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Mail fraud is a federal crime. I'm not sure why Ruspar got infracted...

    It seems like the H/A thing to do, if you look at someone sideways it's an infraction. I know I racked up 4 in the matter of an hour. I guess mod is having a bad day.

    I still think that even if the card was a one year subscription you'd be better off cutting your losses. This is more of a hassle than it's worth. Assuming a pay-rate for your time at 10/hr you will spend far more than five hours chasing this sub card down. Simple economics says to fold the damn hand.

    Furthermore if we're armchair lawyering receiving stolen merchandise is a crime, the vast majority of what goes on ebay was the result of garage hopping or shoplifting. Also the police don't care about your video games.

    Coarse Language on
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    ChickeenChickeen Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Mail fraud is a federal crime. I'm not sure why Ruspar got infracted. If anyone would investigate this, it would be the United States Postal Inspection Service, not the cops. Threatening him may be more effective than anything else. At the very least if you report and nothing happens the guy will worry about it for a while.

    Read his whole post, specifically the last 2 paragraphs.

    Chickeen on
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    Coarse LanguageCoarse Language Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ruspar wrote: »
    But Anyways... I'm done playing Devil's Advocate... why would you buy a time code off ebay anyways? you are asking to get scammed. Every store that carries even the most basic electronic equipment sells the damn things. And yeah, you really should have been paying attention to what you were doing.

    But if you ever feel the need to do something stupid like that again, might I suggest a less painful route, Give me the money you were going to throw away, and I'll kick you in the junk. we'll both come out better for it.

    Personally I don't understand how telling someone that they made a stupid move is an infraction. Ruspar is totally right, if he were to give him the money for a kick in the johnson it would save a lot of time and energy, also the money goes to someone we'll talk to rather than some ebay scammer. Win - win right? So what if it was mildly insulting buying consumables on ebay is like ordering a turd in a box. It's a stupid move. If everyone gets butthurt over being told they're wrong wtf is the point of H/A? Shouldn't the forum then be called "I feel bad and want someone to agree with me"

    Coarse Language on
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    Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    b/c it's help and advice, not abuse and berate.

    Dr. Frenchenstein on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ruspar wrote: »
    But Anyways... I'm done playing Devil's Advocate... why would you buy a time code off ebay anyways? you are asking to get scammed. Every store that carries even the most basic electronic equipment sells the damn things. And yeah, you really should have been paying attention to what you were doing.

    But if you ever feel the need to do something stupid like that again, might I suggest a less painful route, Give me the money you were going to throw away, and I'll kick you in the junk. we'll both come out better for it.

    Personally I don't understand how telling someone that they made a stupid move is an infraction. Ruspar is totally right, if he were to give him the money for a kick in the johnson it would save a lot of time and energy, also the money goes to someone we'll talk to rather than some ebay scammer. Win - win right? So what if it was mildly insulting buying consumables on ebay is like ordering a turd in a box. It's a stupid move. If everyone gets butthurt over being told they're wrong wtf is the point of H/A? Shouldn't the forum then be called "I feel bad and want someone to agree with me"

    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=128774

    That may be helpful. As far as I know, if it's not written there, badgering a poster about a bad decision rather than offering help or advice is verboten.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    RusparRuspar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I was infracted for "threatening physical Violence"

    Ruspar on
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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2011
    Don't feed the trolls, guys.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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