EDIT: that still doesn't explain why the marker would want to return to the pedestal...
UNLESS
holy fucking shit
UNLESS nicole (in DS1) was exactly one of those 'anti-marker' hallucinations that isaac was following, and the red marker was literally fighting him EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
O_O
I LIKE IT. It's still a retcon, but its a retcon I can live with.
Especially since I thought that idea from Martyr was awesome. An evolved defense mechanism due to millions of years of influence from the Black Marker? Yes, please.
it does seem to fit with the whole 'dead relatives slapping you upside the head and telling you to DO THE RIGHT THING' theme
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
There are six parts of the Dead Space universe that I'm aware of off the top of my head.
Markers have a Dead Space - 3 (Martyr, DS1, Downfall)
Markers don't have a Dead Space -1 (DS2)
No opinion - 2 (Extraction, Ignition)
Based on the timeline, that's a retcon. It's the name of the game for goodness sake!
cross DS1 off the first category. it's not stated in-game, it's only mentioned in downfall, and it's somehow spread virally from there.
also, dead space as the title might be simply referring to....lots of dead things. IN SPACE.
From DS1, Ch 12 (NG+ Logs):
...More confounding results from our research: Today, as we moved what we're now calling the Red Marker, we had to pass by the cellular lab area. The scientists working at the time complained about interruptions in the necrotic flesh experiments. As is turns out, the field generated by the Marker creates a "dead space" around itself that forces the recombination effect into dormancy...
At the very least, it would seem that the Red Marker prevents further necromorph infestation within its field (and this is also consistent with gameplay).
I can't say it's a retcon. I'm confused as anybody, but we don't have quite enough information. DS2 is one of those aggravating sequels that explains almost nothing and just raises a bunch of new questions.
Ultimanecat on
SteamID : same as my PA forum name
0
GreenStick around.I'm full of bad ideas.Registered Userregular
There are six parts of the Dead Space universe that I'm aware of off the top of my head.
Markers have a Dead Space - 3 (Martyr, DS1, Downfall)
Markers don't have a Dead Space -1 (DS2)
No opinion - 2 (Extraction, Ignition)
Based on the timeline, that's a retcon. It's the name of the game for goodness sake!
cross DS1 off the first category. it's not stated in-game, it's only mentioned in downfall, and it's somehow spread virally from there.
also, dead space as the title might be simply referring to....lots of dead things. IN SPACE.
From DS1, Ch 12 (NG+ Logs):
...More confounding results from our research: Today, as we moved what we're now calling the Red Marker, we had to pass by the cellular lab area. The scientists working at the time complained about interruptions in the necrotic flesh experiments. As is turns out, the field generated by the Marker creates a "dead space" around itself that forces the recombination effect into dormancy...
At the very least, it would seem that the Red Marker prevents further necromorph infestation within its field (and this is also consistent with gameplay).
I can't say it's a retcon. I'm confused as anybody, but we don't have quite enough information. DS2 is one of those aggravating sequels that explains almost nothing and just raises a bunch of new questions.
Yeah, I was always under the impression that the "dead space" just stops actual recombination, but doesn't really do anything to tissue that's already been infected
And the destruction of the Red Marker doesn't kill off EVERY necromorph on the Ishimura (see Dead Space: Salvage)
Ok, the ending of 2 has been bothering me since I completed it about 3 weeks ago.
I just figured out what it is, and I'm sure someone will give me some basic simple explanation, but seriously, this one point just bothers me.
If Isaac is mind battling Marker/Nicole in his head as the final boss, why do his guns have any ammo at all? I feel like this spot could have been done in a much different, bigger way.
Not that hard to accept... think about your basic sci-fi storyline about mental battles.
Your in a mental battle...issac thinks he has a gun, so he has a gun, he also thinks his bullets are finite, so they are. Hes not that quick that he instantly thinks he can manipulate the world around him. Hes fighting for his life, what is firm in his head at the time is survival and in his head he knows 'i only have 6 contact rounds and 3 plasma....FUCK!' so thats all he has.
Heh, just noticed this. The best part about all of that is when you start up a new game, all that ammo is GONE!
What actually happens at the end:
Isaac is in a mental battle, whereas in real life he's standing at the base of the giant marker blankly pumping round after round of high-impact mining equipment straight into that fucker. Once he's wrapped up the battle for his soul, he comes to and realizes that severely damaging the base of an obelisk runs the large risk of causing it to come straight down, at which point he sits down before jetting off to have pirate-sex with his new girlfriend.
I would assume that the "death" of the red marker sent out some kind of powerful kill signal with a distinct range. Any necros outside of that were likely unaffected. Hence your lone necro on the escape pod which lead to a new outbreak.
There are six parts of the Dead Space universe that I'm aware of off the top of my head.
Markers have a Dead Space - 3 (Martyr, DS1, Downfall)
Markers don't have a Dead Space -1 (DS2)
No opinion - 2 (Extraction, Ignition)
Based on the timeline, that's a retcon. It's the name of the game for goodness sake!
cross DS1 off the first category. it's not stated in-game, it's only mentioned in downfall, and it's somehow spread virally from there.
also, dead space as the title might be simply referring to....lots of dead things. IN SPACE.
From DS1, Ch 12 (NG+ Logs):
...More confounding results from our research: Today, as we moved what we're now calling the Red Marker, we had to pass by the cellular lab area. The scientists working at the time complained about interruptions in the necrotic flesh experiments. As is turns out, the field generated by the Marker creates a "dead space" around itself that forces the recombination effect into dormancy...
At the very least, it would seem that the Red Marker prevents further necromorph infestation within its field (and this is also consistent with gameplay).
I can't say it's a retcon. I'm confused as anybody, but we don't have quite enough information. DS2 is one of those aggravating sequels that explains almost nothing and just raises a bunch of new questions.
agghhh it's the downfall virus again
i just know someone at visceral has had this exact same argument and was strongly advocating a patch to 'fix the goddamn lore'
ah well, hopefully we'll get a definite answer on what is or isn't a retcon sometime later.
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
This is my thinking:
Black Marker is an alien AI; weaponized for an unknown purpose.
Manmade Markers (Red, Yellow, so far? Haven't played any of the side games like Ignition and such) are replicas of the original Black Marker; but perceived and designed through human recognition. Good example is in Mass Effect: spoilers for ME1
Shepard has no idea what the hell the beacon images mean (I believe they were also corrupted due to beacon damage) until he began to see through the Protheans' perspective (after mindmelding hoobaloo with Liara) and pieced it together.
which leads to the Manmade Markers possibly developing their own 'personality', akin to the AIs in System Shock series. Whatever their function, it's possible it is severely inhibited or functionally different based on said personalities. The only issue is, no one knows how the Red Marker was truly created, other than "reverse-engineered". Was the Yellow Marker done the same way or differently?
And about the "retcon": I believe the 'dead space' effect basically neutralizes (see: sterilizes) the slashers, leapers, etc ability to infect others (see disrupting necrotic flesh) but doesn't hinder ACTIVE infestation performed by Infectors (who presumably could be forcing the physical changes). So basically, that would explain how one slasher could infect the military ship (someone explained earlier quite well: most staffing unaware of necromorphs, possibly injuries in first contact that later escalated infections due to lack of 'dead space' since Red Marker is so small/not on pedestal). The 'dead space' effect just doesn't kill/disrupt/cease LIVING (?) necromorphs, only prevents/ceases their ability to infect living beings (without an Infector).
There was one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet in these discussions that was pretty interesting back in Dead Space: Extraction. When playing as Catherine Howel; she mentioned in one of the videos (I believe she was replaying something and watching the necromorphs), she talked about how necromorphs have an "ecology; a culture"
So is there perhaps a hive thinking within the Necromorphs ("naturally") or is it entirely controlled by Markers? What effect is there without one? What role does the Hivemind play with/without Marker influence?
Anyway, sorry to anyone that reads the above; when you get distracted several times, train of thought tends to go out the window.
Did someone mention new weapons/armor with Severed? And if there are new toys, do they carry over to the main game?
Xenogear_0001 on
0
mosssnackYeah right, man, Bishop should go!Good idea!Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
I've never played Extraction, would I just be completely lost playing Severed? I may at some point end up grabbing Extraction and playing through it, just not anytime soon.
mosssnack on
XBL: mosssnack12
bnet: moss*1454
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
No, it's pretty basic on plot and relatively straightforward. You won't have the same attachment to the characters as someone who played extraction would though.
This is my thinking:
Black Marker is an alien AI; weaponized for an unknown purpose.
Manmade Markers (Red, Yellow, so far? Haven't played any of the side games like Ignition and such) are replicas of the original Black Marker; but perceived and designed through human recognition. Good example is in Mass Effect: spoilers for ME1
Shepard has no idea what the hell the beacon images mean (I believe they were also corrupted due to beacon damage) until he began to see through the Protheans' perspective (after mindmelding hoobaloo with Liara) and pieced it together.
which leads to the Manmade Markers possibly developing their own 'personality', akin to the AIs in System Shock series. Whatever their function, it's possible it is severely inhibited or functionally different based on said personalities. The only issue is, no one knows how the Red Marker was truly created, other than "reverse-engineered". Was the Yellow Marker done the same way or differently?
And about the "retcon": I believe the 'dead space' effect basically neutralizes (see: sterilizes) the slashers, leapers, etc ability to infect others (see disrupting necrotic flesh) but doesn't hinder ACTIVE infestation performed by Infectors (who presumably could be forcing the physical changes). So basically, that would explain how one slasher could infect the military ship (someone explained earlier quite well: most staffing unaware of necromorphs, possibly injuries in first contact that later escalated infections due to lack of 'dead space' since Red Marker is so small/not on pedestal). The 'dead space' effect just doesn't kill/disrupt/cease LIVING (?) necromorphs, only prevents/ceases their ability to infect living beings (without an Infector).
There was one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet in these discussions that was pretty interesting back in Dead Space: Extraction. When playing as Catherine Howel; she mentioned in one of the videos (I believe she was replaying something and watching the necromorphs), she talked about how necromorphs have an "ecology; a culture"
So is there perhaps a hive thinking within the Necromorphs ("naturally") or is it entirely controlled by Markers? What effect is there without one? What role does the Hivemind play with/without Marker influence?
Anyway, sorry to anyone that reads the above; when you get distracted several times, train of thought tends to go out the window.
We do know the origin of the Red Marker.
Dead Space: Martyr spoilers
It was created based on blueprints that Altman created to appease the Black Marker.
This is my thinking:
Black Marker is an alien AI; weaponized for an unknown purpose.
Manmade Markers (Red, Yellow, so far? Haven't played any of the side games like Ignition and such) are replicas of the original Black Marker; but perceived and designed through human recognition. Good example is in Mass Effect: spoilers for ME1
Shepard has no idea what the hell the beacon images mean (I believe they were also corrupted due to beacon damage) until he began to see through the Protheans' perspective (after mindmelding hoobaloo with Liara) and pieced it together.
which leads to the Manmade Markers possibly developing their own 'personality', akin to the AIs in System Shock series. Whatever their function, it's possible it is severely inhibited or functionally different based on said personalities. The only issue is, no one knows how the Red Marker was truly created, other than "reverse-engineered". Was the Yellow Marker done the same way or differently?
And about the "retcon": I believe the 'dead space' effect basically neutralizes (see: sterilizes) the slashers, leapers, etc ability to infect others (see disrupting necrotic flesh) but doesn't hinder ACTIVE infestation performed by Infectors (who presumably could be forcing the physical changes). So basically, that would explain how one slasher could infect the military ship (someone explained earlier quite well: most staffing unaware of necromorphs, possibly injuries in first contact that later escalated infections due to lack of 'dead space' since Red Marker is so small/not on pedestal). The 'dead space' effect just doesn't kill/disrupt/cease LIVING (?) necromorphs, only prevents/ceases their ability to infect living beings (without an Infector).
There was one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet in these discussions that was pretty interesting back in Dead Space: Extraction. When playing as Catherine Howel; she mentioned in one of the videos (I believe she was replaying something and watching the necromorphs), she talked about how necromorphs have an "ecology; a culture"
So is there perhaps a hive thinking within the Necromorphs ("naturally") or is it entirely controlled by Markers? What effect is there without one? What role does the Hivemind play with/without Marker influence?
Anyway, sorry to anyone that reads the above; when you get distracted several times, train of thought tends to go out the window.
We do know the origin of the Red Marker.
Dead Space: Martyr spoilers
It was created based on blueprints that Altman created to appease the Black Marker.
Sorry, my fault I was quick and short on some points.
The question I was attempting to ask:
The process to create the Red Marker and the process that created the Yellow Marker. And the processes used to make the X number of Y Markers elsewhere. (Based on DS2 ending and logs)
From what I've read and understood, the Red Marker was created through reverse-engineering the information found IN (or) ON the Black Marker. Afterward, it gets quite vague and unclear as to the steps involved constructing the Red Marker.
However, the Yellow Marker (speculatively) was created using blueprints found in several subjects (one being Isaac), followed by vague construction methods. This could also explain why the Yellow Marker is "random" or somewhat schizophrenic in its actions; considering it was created by several "architects" all trying to design within the same blueprint. There had to have been mistakes or overlapping/missing/double information.
That is, unless the Red Marker used similar methods in its creation (extractions from test subjects) but I've only read it was based off "code" from the Black Marker; nothing about effects from the Black Marker (insanity, seeing symbols, etc) or extracting information from test subjects.
Dead Space: Martyr quotation to the rescue. Forgive any typos, I have no idea how to copy text from Kindle for PC
It was not love he felt, but something different, something that was not a feeling at all. At first it was as if he was experiencing all the hallucinations he had had at once, as if he was experiencing all the experiences any of the others had had, all laid over one another. Most of it interfered with itself, creating a kind of blinding static that blotted itself out, but beyond that, and in spite of it, he could see something he hadn't seen before. He could see that the hallucinations were not a function of the Marker but of something else that stood in opposition to it, of something that was ingrained in his own brain. The hallucinations had been trying to protect them, but they had failed: the process had begun. Now all he could do was try to satisfy the Marker enough that the process would stop but not do enough to lead to a full-fledged Convergence.
And then, suddenly, something cleared and he could see past the hallucinations to glimpse the Marker itself. It was as if it were changing the structure of his brain, reworking connections, rewiring circuits, to make him understand. Suddenly he felt he could see the structure of the Marker from the inside, and in a way that gave him a complex appreciation of it. It filled his head and set it aflame, and then it poured out through the cracks in his skull and took him with it.
TL;DR - The Black Marker tells him how to make another Marker, he types it in, Unitologists steal it.
On your second question
It's possible that the blueprints coming primarily from Altman helps, but I got the impression that the DS2 Marker was primarily from Isaac.
I wasn't aware the Black Marker attempted to propagate itself. I was assuming that was one of those typical "disasters" that's created by man screwing with something he didn't comprehend.
Although the information on the wiki contradicts some of what you attempt to say, but both correlate that Altman was attempting to STOP the Marker rather than make more.
But looks like the Markers should inhibit the regeneration of necrotic flesh; not necessarily the creation of Necromorphs (few references to people contaminating themselves voluntarily and Infectors).
Anywhoooo, here's hoping for some better fluff DLC or something.
I just started my day by sipping my coffee and reading the three pages I was behind on, hoping to get some answers to my questions.
And, I guess the answer is "Nobody knows"
Right.
Got it.
While that's a little frustrating at least I know I didn't miss any information nor was I completely confused by the story between DS1 and 2.
But since so many people are apparently invested in the story they should really pull it together and release some kind of official canon.
on the other hand, keeping the mystery hidden helps the game world retain its appeal. nobody would still care about the half life series if we knew exactly what the fuck was going on. :P
for me, i'd much rather have the developers err on the side of too little information than too much. too much clearly defined lore and backstory is what sank the halo series' narrative interest.
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
I just started my day by sipping my coffee and reading the three pages I was behind on, hoping to get some answers to my questions.
And, I guess the answer is "Nobody knows"
Right.
Got it.
While that's a little frustrating at least I know I didn't miss any information nor was I completely confused by the story between DS1 and 2.
But since so many people are apparently invested in the story they should really pull it together and release some kind of official canon.
on the other hand, keeping the mystery hidden helps the game world retain its appeal. nobody would still care about the half life series if we knew exactly what the fuck was going on. :P
for me, i'd much rather have the developers err on the side of too little information than too much. too much clearly defined lore and backstory is what sank the halo series' narrative interest.
Oh, I'm fine with mystery. And I agree that keeping us guessing is a good way to keep the DS universe interesting.
But Dead Space isn't so much mystery as it is "Try to make all these square blocks fit in these circular holes" because there are lots of different story arcs released in different mediums that apparently contradict eachother.
Downfall was a shitty, shitty film and it aggrivates me that it's muddying the waters in terms of Dead Space canon. I would like it if the writers of the two Dead Space games would clearly define what, if anything, was retconned and what we can disregard in terms of lore.
I just started my day by sipping my coffee and reading the three pages I was behind on, hoping to get some answers to my questions.
And, I guess the answer is "Nobody knows"
Right.
Got it.
While that's a little frustrating at least I know I didn't miss any information nor was I completely confused by the story between DS1 and 2.
But since so many people are apparently invested in the story they should really pull it together and release some kind of official canon.
on the other hand, keeping the mystery hidden helps the game world retain its appeal. nobody would still care about the half life series if we knew exactly what the fuck was going on. :P
for me, i'd much rather have the developers err on the side of too little information than too much. too much clearly defined lore and backstory is what sank the halo series' narrative interest.
Oh, I'm fine with mystery. And I agree that keeping us guessing is a good way to keep the DS universe interesting.
But Dead Space isn't so much mystery as it is "Try to make all these square blocks fit in these circular holes" because there are lots of different story arcs released in different mediums that apparently contradict eachother.
Downfall was a shitty, shitty film and it aggrivates me that it's muddying the waters in terms of Dead Space canon. I would like it if the writers of the two Dead Space games would clearly define what, if anything, was retconned and what we can disregard in terms of lore.
But that's not going to happen ever.
I find it useful if you just disregard both films in general
This is my thinking:
Black Marker is an alien AI; weaponized for an unknown purpose.
Manmade Markers (Red, Yellow, so far? Haven't played any of the side games like Ignition and such) are replicas of the original Black Marker; but perceived and designed through human recognition. Good example is in Mass Effect: spoilers for ME1
Shepard has no idea what the hell the beacon images mean (I believe they were also corrupted due to beacon damage) until he began to see through the Protheans' perspective (after mindmelding hoobaloo with Liara) and pieced it together.
which leads to the Manmade Markers possibly developing their own 'personality', akin to the AIs in System Shock series. Whatever their function, it's possible it is severely inhibited or functionally different based on said personalities. The only issue is, no one knows how the Red Marker was truly created, other than "reverse-engineered". Was the Yellow Marker done the same way or differently?
And about the "retcon": I believe the 'dead space' effect basically neutralizes (see: sterilizes) the slashers, leapers, etc ability to infect others (see disrupting necrotic flesh) but doesn't hinder ACTIVE infestation performed by Infectors (who presumably could be forcing the physical changes). So basically, that would explain how one slasher could infect the military ship (someone explained earlier quite well: most staffing unaware of necromorphs, possibly injuries in first contact that later escalated infections due to lack of 'dead space' since Red Marker is so small/not on pedestal). The 'dead space' effect just doesn't kill/disrupt/cease LIVING (?) necromorphs, only prevents/ceases their ability to infect living beings (without an Infector).
There was one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet in these discussions that was pretty interesting back in Dead Space: Extraction. When playing as Catherine Howel; she mentioned in one of the videos (I believe she was replaying something and watching the necromorphs), she talked about how necromorphs have an "ecology; a culture"
So is there perhaps a hive thinking within the Necromorphs ("naturally") or is it entirely controlled by Markers? What effect is there without one? What role does the Hivemind play with/without Marker influence?
Anyway, sorry to anyone that reads the above; when you get distracted several times, train of thought tends to go out the window.
There seems to be some confusion about how Markers are made, but DS2 has a log talking about a scientist who builds a Marker from his visions. He talks about programming a heuristic and growing layers of the Marker using "crystal baths." He also mentions blacking out and waking up to see a fully formed Marker. He later destroys it with a sledgehammer and is put under surveillance.
So it's pretty straightforward. The Marker beams blueprints into people's heads and they build it physically. So Isaac was probably sleepwalking for all that missing time, bumbling around a lab or workshop in a trance-like state. Tiedmann and company scrambling to keep up with his pace. Isaac's mind was the "purest" according to Tiedmann, so it may mean that Isaac was literally unconscious most of the time while the Marker fed him data and put him on autopilot.
I sort of imagine it as Dwarf Fortress and one of the Dwarfs is in a mood and gathering materials to make an artifact.
This is my thinking:
Black Marker is an alien AI; weaponized for an unknown purpose.
Manmade Markers (Red, Yellow, so far? Haven't played any of the side games like Ignition and such) are replicas of the original Black Marker; but perceived and designed through human recognition. Good example is in Mass Effect: spoilers for ME1
Shepard has no idea what the hell the beacon images mean (I believe they were also corrupted due to beacon damage) until he began to see through the Protheans' perspective (after mindmelding hoobaloo with Liara) and pieced it together.
which leads to the Manmade Markers possibly developing their own 'personality', akin to the AIs in System Shock series. Whatever their function, it's possible it is severely inhibited or functionally different based on said personalities. The only issue is, no one knows how the Red Marker was truly created, other than "reverse-engineered". Was the Yellow Marker done the same way or differently?
And about the "retcon": I believe the 'dead space' effect basically neutralizes (see: sterilizes) the slashers, leapers, etc ability to infect others (see disrupting necrotic flesh) but doesn't hinder ACTIVE infestation performed by Infectors (who presumably could be forcing the physical changes). So basically, that would explain how one slasher could infect the military ship (someone explained earlier quite well: most staffing unaware of necromorphs, possibly injuries in first contact that later escalated infections due to lack of 'dead space' since Red Marker is so small/not on pedestal). The 'dead space' effect just doesn't kill/disrupt/cease LIVING (?) necromorphs, only prevents/ceases their ability to infect living beings (without an Infector).
There was one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet in these discussions that was pretty interesting back in Dead Space: Extraction. When playing as Catherine Howel; she mentioned in one of the videos (I believe she was replaying something and watching the necromorphs), she talked about how necromorphs have an "ecology; a culture"
So is there perhaps a hive thinking within the Necromorphs ("naturally") or is it entirely controlled by Markers? What effect is there without one? What role does the Hivemind play with/without Marker influence?
Anyway, sorry to anyone that reads the above; when you get distracted several times, train of thought tends to go out the window.
There seems to be some confusion about how Markers are made, but DS2 has a log talking about a scientist who builds a Marker from his visions. He talks about programming a heuristic and growing layers of the Marker using "crystal baths." He also mentions blacking out and waking up to see a fully formed Marker. He later destroys it with a sledgehammer and is put under surveillance.
So it's pretty straightforward. The Marker beams blueprints into people's heads and they build it physically. So Isaac was probably sleepwalking for all that missing time, bumbling around a lab or workshop in a trance-like state. Tiedmann and company scrambling to keep up with his pace. Isaac's mind was the "purest" according to Tiedmann, so it may mean that Isaac was literally unconscious most of the time while the Marker fed him data and put him on autopilot.
I sort of imagine it as Dwarf Fortress and one of the Dwarfs is in a mood and gathering materials to make an artifact.
...
You have just birthed the idea to create a dwarven fortress mod that makes a fortress a space station and all the enemies suddely start turning into necros when one of your dwarves goes mad and builds a marker.
This is my thinking:
Black Marker is an alien AI; weaponized for an unknown purpose.
Manmade Markers (Red, Yellow, so far? Haven't played any of the side games like Ignition and such) are replicas of the original Black Marker; but perceived and designed through human recognition. Good example is in Mass Effect: spoilers for ME1
Shepard has no idea what the hell the beacon images mean (I believe they were also corrupted due to beacon damage) until he began to see through the Protheans' perspective (after mindmelding hoobaloo with Liara) and pieced it together.
which leads to the Manmade Markers possibly developing their own 'personality', akin to the AIs in System Shock series. Whatever their function, it's possible it is severely inhibited or functionally different based on said personalities. The only issue is, no one knows how the Red Marker was truly created, other than "reverse-engineered". Was the Yellow Marker done the same way or differently?
And about the "retcon": I believe the 'dead space' effect basically neutralizes (see: sterilizes) the slashers, leapers, etc ability to infect others (see disrupting necrotic flesh) but doesn't hinder ACTIVE infestation performed by Infectors (who presumably could be forcing the physical changes). So basically, that would explain how one slasher could infect the military ship (someone explained earlier quite well: most staffing unaware of necromorphs, possibly injuries in first contact that later escalated infections due to lack of 'dead space' since Red Marker is so small/not on pedestal). The 'dead space' effect just doesn't kill/disrupt/cease LIVING (?) necromorphs, only prevents/ceases their ability to infect living beings (without an Infector).
There was one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet in these discussions that was pretty interesting back in Dead Space: Extraction. When playing as Catherine Howel; she mentioned in one of the videos (I believe she was replaying something and watching the necromorphs), she talked about how necromorphs have an "ecology; a culture"
So is there perhaps a hive thinking within the Necromorphs ("naturally") or is it entirely controlled by Markers? What effect is there without one? What role does the Hivemind play with/without Marker influence?
Anyway, sorry to anyone that reads the above; when you get distracted several times, train of thought tends to go out the window.
There seems to be some confusion about how Markers are made, but DS2 has a log talking about a scientist who builds a Marker from his visions. He talks about programming a heuristic and growing layers of the Marker using "crystal baths." He also mentions blacking out and waking up to see a fully formed Marker. He later destroys it with a sledgehammer and is put under surveillance.
So it's pretty straightforward. The Marker beams blueprints into people's heads and they build it physically. So Isaac was probably sleepwalking for all that missing time, bumbling around a lab or workshop in a trance-like state. Tiedmann and company scrambling to keep up with his pace. Isaac's mind was the "purest" according to Tiedmann, so it may mean that Isaac was literally unconscious most of the time while the Marker fed him data and put him on autopilot.
I sort of imagine it as Dwarf Fortress and one of the Dwarfs is in a mood and gathering materials to make an artifact.
...
You have just birthed the idea to create a dwarven fortress mod that makes a fortress a space station and all the enemies suddely start turning into necros when one of your dwarves goes mad and builds a marker.
this is FUCKING AMAZING and should happen AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
0
anoffdayTo be changed whenever Anoffday gets around to it.Registered Userregular
So I loved DS1 and 2, but didn't really get into Extraction. Maybe I'll like it more if I get a PS move.
But the DLC plays just like DS1 and 2 though, right?
Same gameplay yes, but it's 15% creepy atmosphere 85% FUCK NECROMORPHS EVERYWHERE
Green on
0
anoffdayTo be changed whenever Anoffday gets around to it.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
What's up with the guy's suit? It looks like he has one eye.
anoffday on
Steam: offday
0
GreenStick around.I'm full of bad ideas.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
Probably the same reason Isaac's usual suits have three eye slits
i.e. it looks futuristic and cool
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anoffdayTo be changed whenever Anoffday gets around to it.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
That's true.
And yeah, it looks cool for sure.
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Steam: offday
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MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
So I hop on the train, right? Of course, right after it starts to move, a necromorph busts in through the window. well, I had the contact beam so I shove it into the ground and pull the trigger. The resulting shockwave blows the necromorph apart and blows every window in the train out simultaniously.
So. Fucking. Awesome.
Not only that, the contact beam is fully upgraded, so there's a fucking torso just floating in the air in front of me. I take a deft swing at it. Fuck yeah. Dead and looted even before it hits the ground. Except that awesome right hook to the torso's left nipple sent my two rounds of contact energy straight out the previously broken window. I'm sitting here laughing so hard I have the hiccups just from the sheer absurdity of watching my prize fly right off the train. Yes, it is possible to be too cool.
Plasma Cutter fundamentalism is the only way to go. You have all strayed from the purity of the One True Way. You neglect your arts with Kinesis and Stasis. You do not appreciate merging the strength of all three into a harmonious symphony of violent power.
Kneel and repent!
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MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
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Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
From DS1, Ch 12 (NG+ Logs):
At the very least, it would seem that the Red Marker prevents further necromorph infestation within its field (and this is also consistent with gameplay).
I can't say it's a retcon. I'm confused as anybody, but we don't have quite enough information. DS2 is one of those aggravating sequels that explains almost nothing and just raises a bunch of new questions.
Yeah, I was always under the impression that the "dead space" just stops actual recombination, but doesn't really do anything to tissue that's already been infected
And the destruction of the Red Marker doesn't kill off EVERY necromorph on the Ishimura (see Dead Space: Salvage)
Heh, just noticed this. The best part about all of that is when you start up a new game, all that ammo is GONE!
What actually happens at the end:
agghhh it's the downfall virus again
i just know someone at visceral has had this exact same argument and was strongly advocating a patch to 'fix the goddamn lore'
ah well, hopefully we'll get a definite answer on what is or isn't a retcon sometime later.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Black Marker is an alien AI; weaponized for an unknown purpose.
Manmade Markers (Red, Yellow, so far? Haven't played any of the side games like Ignition and such) are replicas of the original Black Marker; but perceived and designed through human recognition. Good example is in Mass Effect: spoilers for ME1
And about the "retcon": I believe the 'dead space' effect basically neutralizes (see: sterilizes) the slashers, leapers, etc ability to infect others (see disrupting necrotic flesh) but doesn't hinder ACTIVE infestation performed by Infectors (who presumably could be forcing the physical changes). So basically, that would explain how one slasher could infect the military ship (someone explained earlier quite well: most staffing unaware of necromorphs, possibly injuries in first contact that later escalated infections due to lack of 'dead space' since Red Marker is so small/not on pedestal). The 'dead space' effect just doesn't kill/disrupt/cease LIVING (?) necromorphs, only prevents/ceases their ability to infect living beings (without an Infector).
There was one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet in these discussions that was pretty interesting back in Dead Space: Extraction. When playing as Catherine Howel; she mentioned in one of the videos (I believe she was replaying something and watching the necromorphs), she talked about how necromorphs have an "ecology; a culture"
So is there perhaps a hive thinking within the Necromorphs ("naturally") or is it entirely controlled by Markers? What effect is there without one? What role does the Hivemind play with/without Marker influence?
Anyway, sorry to anyone that reads the above; when you get distracted several times, train of thought tends to go out the window.
I'm 20 pages behind!
it's nice if you liked extraction
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
bnet: moss*1454
We do know the origin of the Red Marker.
Dead Space: Martyr spoilers
Sorry, my fault I was quick and short on some points.
The question I was attempting to ask:
From what I've read and understood, the Red Marker was created through reverse-engineering the information found IN (or) ON the Black Marker. Afterward, it gets quite vague and unclear as to the steps involved constructing the Red Marker.
However, the Yellow Marker (speculatively) was created using blueprints found in several subjects (one being Isaac), followed by vague construction methods. This could also explain why the Yellow Marker is "random" or somewhat schizophrenic in its actions; considering it was created by several "architects" all trying to design within the same blueprint. There had to have been mistakes or overlapping/missing/double information.
That is, unless the Red Marker used similar methods in its creation (extractions from test subjects) but I've only read it was based off "code" from the Black Marker; nothing about effects from the Black Marker (insanity, seeing symbols, etc) or extracting information from test subjects.
And then, suddenly, something cleared and he could see past the hallucinations to glimpse the Marker itself. It was as if it were changing the structure of his brain, reworking connections, rewiring circuits, to make him understand. Suddenly he felt he could see the structure of the Marker from the inside, and in a way that gave him a complex appreciation of it. It filled his head and set it aflame, and then it poured out through the cracks in his skull and took him with it.
TL;DR - The Black Marker tells him how to make another Marker, he types it in, Unitologists steal it.
On your second question
Although the information on the wiki contradicts some of what you attempt to say, but both correlate that Altman was attempting to STOP the Marker rather than make more.
But looks like the Markers should inhibit the regeneration of necrotic flesh; not necessarily the creation of Necromorphs (few references to people contaminating themselves voluntarily and Infectors).
What if Markers turn out to be like Dicrocoelium dendriticum?
That doesn't mean his method for stopping it wasn't later abused by the Unitologists.
And, I guess the answer is "Nobody knows"
Right.
Got it.
While that's a little frustrating at least I know I didn't miss any information nor was I completely confused by the story between DS1 and 2.
But since so many people are apparently invested in the story they should really pull it together and release some kind of official canon.
on the other hand, keeping the mystery hidden helps the game world retain its appeal. nobody would still care about the half life series if we knew exactly what the fuck was going on. :P
for me, i'd much rather have the developers err on the side of too little information than too much. too much clearly defined lore and backstory is what sank the halo series' narrative interest.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Oh, I'm fine with mystery. And I agree that keeping us guessing is a good way to keep the DS universe interesting.
But Dead Space isn't so much mystery as it is "Try to make all these square blocks fit in these circular holes" because there are lots of different story arcs released in different mediums that apparently contradict eachother.
Downfall was a shitty, shitty film and it aggrivates me that it's muddying the waters in terms of Dead Space canon. I would like it if the writers of the two Dead Space games would clearly define what, if anything, was retconned and what we can disregard in terms of lore.
But that's not going to happen ever.
I find it useful if you just disregard both films in general
So it's pretty straightforward. The Marker beams blueprints into people's heads and they build it physically. So Isaac was probably sleepwalking for all that missing time, bumbling around a lab or workshop in a trance-like state. Tiedmann and company scrambling to keep up with his pace. Isaac's mind was the "purest" according to Tiedmann, so it may mean that Isaac was literally unconscious most of the time while the Marker fed him data and put him on autopilot.
I sort of imagine it as Dwarf Fortress and one of the Dwarfs is in a mood and gathering materials to make an artifact.
...
You have just birthed the idea to create a dwarven fortress mod that makes a fortress a space station and all the enemies suddely start turning into necros when one of your dwarves goes mad and builds a marker.
this is FUCKING AMAZING and should happen AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
But the DLC plays just like DS1 and 2 though, right?
Same gameplay yes, but it's 15% creepy atmosphere 85% FUCK NECROMORPHS EVERYWHERE
i.e. it looks futuristic and cool
And yeah, it looks cool for sure.
So. Fucking. Awesome.
Not only that, the contact beam is fully upgraded, so there's a fucking torso just floating in the air in front of me. I take a deft swing at it. Fuck yeah. Dead and looted even before it hits the ground. Except that awesome right hook to the torso's left nipple sent my two rounds of contact energy straight out the previously broken window. I'm sitting here laughing so hard I have the hiccups just from the sheer absurdity of watching my prize fly right off the train. Yes, it is possible to be too cool.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Plasma Cutter fundamentalism is the only way to go. You have all strayed from the purity of the One True Way. You neglect your arts with Kinesis and Stasis. You do not appreciate merging the strength of all three into a harmonious symphony of violent power.
Kneel and repent!
Wait, there's an agnostic/aweaponist in the thread?
Get the pitchforks! Even better, modify your Javelin gun to FIRE pitchforks!
I want to be a necromorph when I grow up.
How does this modify our position that you are to be shot at? (Albeit with lines of plasma.)
Now we aim for his limbs.