I haven't seen the Q&A yet since no one has C-P'd it here, so that was the first time I'd seen the dev clarification about making ability-specific changes like with Colossus Smash. The position is understandable; however, it's still kind of a lazy stance to take when you have ability-specific "bugs" (using that as a general word for software defects, design oversight, whatever) in the first place. The CS change was a ruleset separation specifically to address warriors exploding people without hindering PvE. Traps are another matter entirely, since they're essentially bugged.
I completely agree. Fix the damn bug, then worry about fixing it in an elegant way on your own time.
*snip* You literally change nothing about your gear based on individual opponents. *snip*If you feel you're dying too fast in general for your own preference or your pocket healer to keep up, then you try to get more resilience at the cost of some DPS, but that's the sort of thing that will vary from game to game to game*snip*
I'm honestly curious how you expect this scenario to work in practice. It reads like a hand wave over the two massive issues of 1) actually identifying a gear differential beyond "he geared good" and "he geared not so good" and 2) what strategic or tactical change one would make based on somehow getting through (1).
No, this is actually what I'm trying to get at, that you should have a rough idea of your opponents' gear and abilities, and if you have a personal preference, change your gear once, not from fight to fight.
Let me be hyperbolic for a minute. Imagine a new ring was made that gave all caster an extra +2000 spell pen. Would a warrior care that such an item existed? I would say yes, and that a lot of people would post that it was an imbalanced item, meanwhile every caster would try and grab it. Everyone would then have to decide if they wanted to die faster, or re-gear to adjust.
Alternatively, would a warrior care that a new glyph was released that made polymorph last three times as long? Yes, it will change how that matchup goes. Things like this also matter more in battlegrounds than arenas, where you have better opportunities to pick your battles, run away, or wait for backup.
I get it that you were trying to bring up "Warriors don't care about spell pen because they don't want it on their gear" as a counterpoint to the example "Everyone should care the same amount about spell pen". The thing is if you pvp, then you care about how gearing works for all classes, not just the one you are playing as. Again, in this example, care = thinks about, as opposed to care = gears for.
(As a side note, I was unaware that resilience no longer affected how you took crits. Good to know!)
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3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Maybe you're not using the right examples to illustrate your point or something, but what would anyone do to re-gear around the existence of a 2000 spell pen ring? As it is, no one gears for resistance at all. Spell pen is solely a stat that the attacker cares about (and just to get over the resist humps of MotW/kings/resist aura/etc.), not the attackee, as there is nothing the attackee can do to prepare or account for it.
Caring about how mechanics work has nothing to do with gearing. If melee damage gets buffed, that affects mages, even though it isn't their gear that changes. Some players might not care at all. Some players might think twice about trying to cast that one last frostbolt, instead of running away just a little bit earlier.
The example that "warriors don't care about spell pen" is flawed because if you play the game, you should know how the mechanics of the game work, think about them, and then decide if and how you want to adjust your play. That is the definition of "care about" that I was trying to imply in my earlier posts.
It seems that you are saying "the way that spell pen works makes it unnecessary to change your gearing if spell pen does not appear on your gear." Cool. How did you come by that information? Either you care about the mechanic spell pen, and how it works, and you thought it through, or you looked it up on Arena Junkies, where someone else cares enough about spell pen to find out how it works.
To get back to the reason I made that statement in the first place, which was addressing hunter traps and not warriors, is that the devs were considering making a change to the game that would change the way that spell pen interacts with traps. Even if you are a warrior, if you want to be better at PVP, you should either care enough to look up how this change affects you, or at least find someone else to tell you if you need to pay attention. Therefore, I do believe it is a legitimate statement to say, "All classes care about the existence of the game mechanic spell pen, and should know enough about the game to know how it affects their class."
It was never my intention to say "warriors need to know exactly how much spell pen each opponent has at all times" and I apologize if I left you with that impression. Again, this came up because I was using the word "cares about" to mean "should think about how it affects his PVP, then act", rather than "gears for". If I had explained that better earlier, we probably would not have spent so much time talking about gearing.
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3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
I'm not sure how many WoW threads you look at, but "care about" in the context of stats is pretty much universal shorthand for "do we want this stat or not?" (e.g., "Do resto shamans care about mastery rating?" "Do tanks care about expertise?")
You've clearly taken it at a high level concept of "need to know what it does and how it works to be optimal," which is kind of pointless since, to be optimal at PvP, you need to know how essentially every class in the game functions and what it can do. At that point the answer is a shallow "yes" to any question about any game mechanic for PvP, pretty much.
I'm not sure how many WoW threads you look at, but "care about" in the context of stats is pretty much universal shorthand for "do we want this stat or not?" (e.g., "Do resto shamans care about mastery rating?" "Do tanks care about expertise?")
You've clearly taken it at a high level concept of "need to know what it does and how it works to be optimal," which is kind of pointless since, to be optimal at PvP, you need to know how essentially every class in the game functions and what it can do. At that point the answer is a shallow "yes" to any question about any game mechanic for PvP, pretty much.
Yeah, I think you are entirely correct, which is why I chose to answer your warrior question that way. I realized that you were implying "gear for". I tried to make it clear that I was not. In that case, my first post (about the Dev Q&A) should have been written as
"The point is that they'd like for EVERYONE to [strike]care about[/strike] be affected by resist chance and spell pen (for traps), rather than just pretend that those two values don't exist for traps."
where the important part of the sentence is that the word EVERYONE is replacing the word ROGUES.
I see now that by saying "care about" that I gave you the wrong context.
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darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
I'm still not following your logic here. It seems the point you're trying to make is that if you care enough about PvP to excel then you'll care enough to understand each stat and what it does. I can understand that, but I think you're making your argument in a poor way. From my perspective, I give fuck all about spell pen because there is absolutely nothing I can do to counter it. If I were to stack resists (which by the way, I can't think of any relevent piece of gear that have any resists on them anymore) then it would come at the cost of useful stats.
You state that: "All classes care about the existence of the game mechanic spell pen, and should know enough about the game to know how it affects their class." My retort would be that it doesn't affect any class in such a way that they should care about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but spell pen essentially ups your chance to hit and/or reduces the chance of your spells being resisted correct? So, in your opinion, what viable solutions are there to counter spell pen outside of class buffs which, if you're any good at PvP will be on you 95-100% of the time anyway?
My point here is that no one that cares enough to know what spell pen is/does is going to be stupid enough to gear around it simply to counter an insignificant aspect of what the enemy is throwing at you. I think I understand the point you're trying to make, being along the lines of knowledge is power, but I think you're using the wrong vehicle to make that point.
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Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
1. The devs wrote a confusing post using rogues as an example.
2. I tried to clear that up by saying all classes would be equally affected, not just rogues.
3. I made a word choice that implied "gear choices." I did not then, nor do I now, care about gear choices.
4. I tried to defend my word choice by explaining it in terms of gear choices, rather than by ONLY saying "I'm not talking about gear choices. I am talking about game mechanics." This was a mistake, and led to much confusion.
5. I changed the word choice I used in step 3.
The take home message: It doesn't take a lot to be misunderstood on the internet, which is pretty interesting, since that's what started the whole conversation in the first place
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Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
I read the Q&A last night. It was mostly ugh and facepalm all over. The only thing that felt agreeable was their intention to reduce the interrupt/lockdown/instant cast game that PvP has become. I'm curious what these "scary changes" will be and how long we'll have to wait to see them.
Oh, and their "fix" to PvP for the most part not providing guild XP? Make world PvP ganks and sub-80 BGs give XP. Why the fuck not level 85 ones? Ugh, it's like whoever is in charge of PvP there makes every decision explicitly to piss me off.
I do not understand this garbage about "CC being too powerful" this season. CC was significantly more powerful last season when you could kill someone in a blanket silence, the cast time was almost half as long as it is now, there was dispel protection, and only two classes could dispel to begin with.
If anything Blizzard needs to rebuff CC to S8 levels, of the last 10 matches I've played in 3s, 8 of them were mindless melee cleave. It seriously feels like S6 all over again.
Have you played against a hunter as a healer? Scatter into trap into blanket silence into another trap into, probably, a hex. All while doing big damage to an arena partner. Since they pretty much control everyone's position with double deterrence, disengage and masters call, it's next to impossible to avoid.
I read the Q&A last night. It was mostly ugh and facepalm all over. The only thing that felt agreeable was their intention to reduce the interrupt/lockdown/instant cast game that PvP has become. I'm curious what these "scary changes" will be and how long we'll have to wait to see them.
Have diminishing returns kick in alot sooner than it does now (maybe having all interrupts / lockdowns / cc's in one category)? Increase the cooldowns of all interupts in only BG's and arenas?
(note, I'm not saying this is what Blizz should do, more briefly speculating and is obviously to be in conjunction with instants being alot less powerful).
I read the Q&A last night. It was mostly ugh and facepalm all over. The only thing that felt agreeable was their intention to reduce the interrupt/lockdown/instant cast game that PvP has become. I'm curious what these "scary changes" will be and how long we'll have to wait to see them.
Have diminishing returns kick in alot sooner than it does now (maybe having all interrupts / lockdowns / cc's in one category)? Increase the cooldowns of all interupts in only BG's and arenas?
(note, I'm not saying this is what Blizz should do, more briefly speculating and is obviously to be in conjunction with instants being alot less powerful).
"Scary changes" makes me think they will be consolidating a lot of the DR categories, increasing cooldowns does not sound like something they would do.
But they've also talked about instants being "too good." Are they actually going to reduce the effectiveness of them compared to cast time spells? Or are they just figuring/hoping that nerfing lockdowns will inherently make cast time abilities good enough that no explicit changes need to be made? Because if they're going to change them, that has pretty major ramifications for PvE.
I read the Q&A last night. It was mostly ugh and facepalm all over. The only thing that felt agreeable was their intention to reduce the interrupt/lockdown/instant cast game that PvP has become. I'm curious what these "scary changes" will be and how long we'll have to wait to see them.
Have diminishing returns kick in alot sooner than it does now (maybe having all interrupts / lockdowns / cc's in one category)? Increase the cooldowns of all interupts in only BG's and arenas?
(note, I'm not saying this is what Blizz should do, more briefly speculating and is obviously to be in conjunction with instants being alot less powerful).
"Scary changes" makes me think they will be consolidating a lot of the DR categories, increasing cooldowns does not sound like something they would do.
Well I was more just trying to think out loud of what "scary changes" might be; Blizzard applying a whole bunch of "this works in pvp this way, but works in pve this way" would be a pretty big / major (Colossus Smash maybe the start of this?).
I do not understand this garbage about "CC being too powerful" this season. CC was significantly more powerful last season when you could kill someone in a blanket silence, the cast time was almost half as long as it is now, there was dispel protection, and only two classes could dispel to begin with.
If anything Blizzard needs to rebuff CC to S8 levels, of the last 10 matches I've played in 3s, 8 of them were mindless melee cleave. It seriously feels like S6 all over again.
Have you played against a hunter as a healer? Scatter into trap into blanket silence into another trap into, probably, a hex. All while doing big damage to an arena partner. Since they pretty much control everyone's position with double deterrence, disengage and masters call, it's next to impossible to avoid.
I am confused as to how you being silenced makes you get trapped twice.
I do not understand this garbage about "CC being too powerful" this season. CC was significantly more powerful last season when you could kill someone in a blanket silence, the cast time was almost half as long as it is now, there was dispel protection, and only two classes could dispel to begin with.
If anything Blizzard needs to rebuff CC to S8 levels, of the last 10 matches I've played in 3s, 8 of them were mindless melee cleave. It seriously feels like S6 all over again.
Have you played against a hunter as a healer? Scatter into trap into blanket silence into another trap into, probably, a hex. All while doing big damage to an arena partner. Since they pretty much control everyone's position with double deterrence, disengage and masters call, it's next to impossible to avoid.
I am confused as to how you being silenced makes you get trapped twice.
As a Paladin? You can't slow? That's ok, you can do basically everything else.
Watch for seaforium peeps!
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GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
Paladins at least have Seal of Justice, right?
Anyway, you can just fight against some of the 11 attackers not sitting in demos. In the old SotA, pretty much everyone was riding in a demo and in my experience there was even less actual PvP happening. SotA still sucks, but it sucked more before the changes.
I enjoy both strand and IoC quite a bit. I know that I'm in the minority on this, but I don't really understand why. Then again, I also enjoyed Oculus.
I wouldn't call IoC good but I enjoy it well enough. Strand is pretty awful though. I appreciate how it could be fun, but it's not for me. I liked it better when the demos weren't so fast, really. But even then, it wasn't terribly fun, and was awful when it eventually just devolved into ranged piling into demos to cc everyone and melee driving them and nothing else.
It's kind of ridiculous how easy it is to get conquest points in that manner. Relatively speaking.
So much so that random BG's still seem stupid and pointless.
Well saying it's relatively easy, when the only other source of conquest points is the 25* you get from winning your first daily random BG, is not really saying much.
1.3k points per week. The armour is what, 2.1k for legs / helm / chest, then the gloves / shoulders are, some value I can't remember (1.6k?).
Before, you used to be able to buy all the off-set pieces for honor, but now you need conquest for all of it. The only nice thing, is that you get the conquest points immediately, but I'd debate that the overall grind is any better / easier.
Before, you could just suck it up with 4 other people and belt out 10 games to get the points in 5vs5, but now with having to win games to get points, it's probably not as easy as it once was to look for some people to do some games with just before the reset.
*The 25 points is silly. Not that winning 5 games in arena is hard or particularly time consuming if you really do want the points, but I don't see why it couldn't be updated to 250 points for a win (i.e. if you logged in 5 times in a week and got that win, you'd get pretty close to the cap, but considering the way heroics are changing with their cap, I suppose you could change the daily BG to match that).
Please note, I'm not that fussed about the rate at which I get conquest points outside of arena and rated BG's. I only do pug BG's and the honor set is good enough.
I think he's saying "easy" relative to your other PvP options: ≈jack shit CPs from winning random daily BGs or the boondoggle that is rated BGs. Besides those, the only other thing is getting inferior gear from honor for a relatively heavy time investment.
In other words, Blizzard is hamfisting PvP like crazy, as usual.
*The 25 points is silly. Not that winning 5 games in arena is hard or particularly time consuming if you really do want the points, but I don't see why it couldn't be updated to 250 points for a win (i.e. if you logged in 5 times in a week and got that win, you'd get pretty close to the cap, but considering the way heroics are changing with their cap, I suppose you could change the daily BG to match that).
I think "insulting" is a more apt word than "silly" here. 25 is so close to nothing it could just as well be nothing. Considering that, on average, you're getting 25 CPs from about an hour of time investment (two games per hour, queues being what they are, and a 50% win rate), it's a fucking joke. With all the "points" being on the same scale now, there is no reason that it shouldn't give at the very least 70 CPs for a win.
But, yeah, it needs to be increased significantly, like you said.
There is absolutely no reason that an hour worth of BG should be worth less than two schmucks in trade getting together to dick around and maybe win one match in four.
Kind of sad. Why don't they just remove random BG's from the game? It would be almost the same. Those blues are worth almost nothing considering the queue times I've experienced.
I think he's saying "easy" relative to your other PvP options: ≈jack shit CPs from winning random daily BGs or the boondoggle that is rated BGs. Besides those, the only other thing is getting inferior gear from honor for a relatively heavy time investment.
In other words, Blizzard is hamfisting PvP like crazy, as usual.
*The 25 points is silly. Not that winning 5 games in arena is hard or particularly time consuming if you really do want the points, but I don't see why it couldn't be updated to 250 points for a win (i.e. if you logged in 5 times in a week and got that win, you'd get pretty close to the cap, but considering the way heroics are changing with their cap, I suppose you could change the daily BG to match that).
I think "insulting" is a more apt word than "silly" here. 25 is so close to nothing it could just as well be nothing. Considering that, on average, you're getting 25 CPs from about an hour of time investment (two games per hour, queues being what they are, and a 50% win rate), it's a fucking joke. With all the "points" being on the same scale now, there is no reason that it shouldn't give at the very least 70 CPs for a win.
But, yeah, it needs to be increased significantly, like you said.
I think it more likely that Blizzard just forgot to update (either increase the costs, or get rid and bump up the honor) the 25 points for this expansion, and have not got around to sorting it out or thought of an alternative they like.
The honor set is going to cost 50% less, resilience will scale better below 3k, and worse beyond (although it would not surprise me if people just started filling in pve gear in those slots once past 3k, but that's just me being cynical) seem to all be steps in the right direction with regards to people gearing up.
I offer that when you're fighting dudes in TB who already have generous amounts of Arena based epics, the difference between heroic blue's and PVP gear that took you DAYS of straight gameplay to farm is pretty insignificant.
The way Honor Points are awarded and as flaky as BG queue's seem to be now in non-peak times, you could spend 3+ hours accruing points for a single blue "set" item. Whereas you could just do arena for an hour or less and walk away with a better item and way less frustration.
I think Blizzard misevaluates the real value of casual arena. My only assumption can be that Arena gives more because it requires organization... but there is almost nothing sacred about 90% of the Arena teams in this game. The only difference between a small group queue to a random BG and a slapdash arena team is that you have to click two or three extra buttons.
Well they doubled honor rate on the PTR.. so that's a good sign. That brings it close to not sucking.
On another note... jesus christ. I played a Twin Peaks today...both sides had three great healers, and it was stupid.
I am not sure there is anyone happier than I am that they've slowed PVP down and made healing less digital, but I think they overdid it. Twin Peaks should not be 25 minutes of chasing around a Warlock spamming Life Drain and Fear while two shaman and a druid heal the shit out of him.
I think in 10 minutes I may have killed ONE of the three healers and that was with Berserker.
It was just 10 or 11 people fighting each other on the ledge inside the alliance base for half a match... very few deaths. Pretty sure I was in up to 7 or 8 minutes of straight combat in an endless stalemate.
There has certainly been a post saying items you buy with honor, cost 50% less on the ptr. There's also another post, saying the amount of honor you get has been increased by 50% as well.
Whether both are going to happen or not, I can't say, but it's a boost nevertheless.
Difference between honor blues and gear from heroics? They've got the same health pools nearly, but I certainly notice the difference between my 2 kits.
The trade goods will cost 50% less honor. The gear prices aren't changing. The honor rate doubling will help, but that still doesn't address the rated BG boondoggle or the feeling of obligation of throwing together an arena team for 5 wins per week.
Well they doubled honor rate on the PTR.. so that's a good sign. That brings it close to not sucking.
On another note... jesus christ. I played a Twin Peaks today...both sides had three great healers, and it was stupid.
I am not sure there is anyone happier than I am that they've slowed PVP down and made healing less digital, but I think they overdid it. Twin Peaks should not be 25 minutes of chasing around a Warlock spamming Life Drain and Fear while two shaman and a druid heal the shit out of him.
I think in 10 minutes I may have killed ONE of the three healers and that was with Berserker.
It was just 10 or 11 people fighting each other on the ledge inside the alliance base for half a match... very few deaths. Pretty sure I was in up to 7 or 8 minutes of straight combat in an endless stalemate.
Uh, healing isn't the problem there. It's shoehorning a shitty, CTF-style game type with dumb mechanics/ruleset into an MMORPG.
I like CTF a lot and I like the twin peaks map design much more than WSG.
And I think it's not hard to make CTF better in this game, along the lines of marginalizing certain things that give certain specs ridiculous advantages.
Limiting movement speed, limiting effective damage reduction, limiting diminishing returns benefits for Flag carries would be a pretty easy way to make CTF seem more dynamic without making any changes the rest of the game. Or just have a stacking Mortal Strike effect every minute instead of a 50% damage intake debuff right now.
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I completely agree. Fix the damn bug, then worry about fixing it in an elegant way on your own time.
No, this is actually what I'm trying to get at, that you should have a rough idea of your opponents' gear and abilities, and if you have a personal preference, change your gear once, not from fight to fight.
Let me be hyperbolic for a minute. Imagine a new ring was made that gave all caster an extra +2000 spell pen. Would a warrior care that such an item existed? I would say yes, and that a lot of people would post that it was an imbalanced item, meanwhile every caster would try and grab it. Everyone would then have to decide if they wanted to die faster, or re-gear to adjust.
Alternatively, would a warrior care that a new glyph was released that made polymorph last three times as long? Yes, it will change how that matchup goes. Things like this also matter more in battlegrounds than arenas, where you have better opportunities to pick your battles, run away, or wait for backup.
I get it that you were trying to bring up "Warriors don't care about spell pen because they don't want it on their gear" as a counterpoint to the example "Everyone should care the same amount about spell pen". The thing is if you pvp, then you care about how gearing works for all classes, not just the one you are playing as. Again, in this example, care = thinks about, as opposed to care = gears for.
(As a side note, I was unaware that resilience no longer affected how you took crits. Good to know!)
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Caring about how mechanics work has nothing to do with gearing. If melee damage gets buffed, that affects mages, even though it isn't their gear that changes. Some players might not care at all. Some players might think twice about trying to cast that one last frostbolt, instead of running away just a little bit earlier.
The example that "warriors don't care about spell pen" is flawed because if you play the game, you should know how the mechanics of the game work, think about them, and then decide if and how you want to adjust your play. That is the definition of "care about" that I was trying to imply in my earlier posts.
It seems that you are saying "the way that spell pen works makes it unnecessary to change your gearing if spell pen does not appear on your gear." Cool. How did you come by that information? Either you care about the mechanic spell pen, and how it works, and you thought it through, or you looked it up on Arena Junkies, where someone else cares enough about spell pen to find out how it works.
To get back to the reason I made that statement in the first place, which was addressing hunter traps and not warriors, is that the devs were considering making a change to the game that would change the way that spell pen interacts with traps. Even if you are a warrior, if you want to be better at PVP, you should either care enough to look up how this change affects you, or at least find someone else to tell you if you need to pay attention. Therefore, I do believe it is a legitimate statement to say, "All classes care about the existence of the game mechanic spell pen, and should know enough about the game to know how it affects their class."
It was never my intention to say "warriors need to know exactly how much spell pen each opponent has at all times" and I apologize if I left you with that impression. Again, this came up because I was using the word "cares about" to mean "should think about how it affects his PVP, then act", rather than "gears for". If I had explained that better earlier, we probably would not have spent so much time talking about gearing.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
You've clearly taken it at a high level concept of "need to know what it does and how it works to be optimal," which is kind of pointless since, to be optimal at PvP, you need to know how essentially every class in the game functions and what it can do. At that point the answer is a shallow "yes" to any question about any game mechanic for PvP, pretty much.
Yeah, I think you are entirely correct, which is why I chose to answer your warrior question that way. I realized that you were implying "gear for". I tried to make it clear that I was not. In that case, my first post (about the Dev Q&A) should have been written as
where the important part of the sentence is that the word EVERYONE is replacing the word ROGUES.
I see now that by saying "care about" that I gave you the wrong context.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
You state that: "All classes care about the existence of the game mechanic spell pen, and should know enough about the game to know how it affects their class." My retort would be that it doesn't affect any class in such a way that they should care about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but spell pen essentially ups your chance to hit and/or reduces the chance of your spells being resisted correct? So, in your opinion, what viable solutions are there to counter spell pen outside of class buffs which, if you're any good at PvP will be on you 95-100% of the time anyway?
My point here is that no one that cares enough to know what spell pen is/does is going to be stupid enough to gear around it simply to counter an insignificant aspect of what the enemy is throwing at you. I think I understand the point you're trying to make, being along the lines of knowledge is power, but I think you're using the wrong vehicle to make that point.
1. The devs wrote a confusing post using rogues as an example.
2. I tried to clear that up by saying all classes would be equally affected, not just rogues.
3. I made a word choice that implied "gear choices." I did not then, nor do I now, care about gear choices.
4. I tried to defend my word choice by explaining it in terms of gear choices, rather than by ONLY saying "I'm not talking about gear choices. I am talking about game mechanics." This was a mistake, and led to much confusion.
5. I changed the word choice I used in step 3.
The take home message: It doesn't take a lot to be misunderstood on the internet, which is pretty interesting, since that's what started the whole conversation in the first place
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Oh, and their "fix" to PvP for the most part not providing guild XP? Make world PvP ganks and sub-80 BGs give XP. Why the fuck not level 85 ones? Ugh, it's like whoever is in charge of PvP there makes every decision explicitly to piss me off.
"We have some of the best programmers in the industry who can't fix traps, so we'll just leave them broken because fuck hunters."
Nice work as usual on PvP, Blizz!
Have you played against a hunter as a healer? Scatter into trap into blanket silence into another trap into, probably, a hex. All while doing big damage to an arena partner. Since they pretty much control everyone's position with double deterrence, disengage and masters call, it's next to impossible to avoid.
Have diminishing returns kick in alot sooner than it does now (maybe having all interrupts / lockdowns / cc's in one category)? Increase the cooldowns of all interupts in only BG's and arenas?
(note, I'm not saying this is what Blizz should do, more briefly speculating and is obviously to be in conjunction with instants being alot less powerful).
"Scary changes" makes me think they will be consolidating a lot of the DR categories, increasing cooldowns does not sound like something they would do.
Well I was more just trying to think out loud of what "scary changes" might be; Blizzard applying a whole bunch of "this works in pvp this way, but works in pve this way" would be a pretty big / major (Colossus Smash maybe the start of this?).
I am confused as to how you being silenced makes you get trapped twice.
Trying to get into LoS to heal my arena partner.
Holy shit is it retarded now.
Watch for seaforium peeps!
Anyway, you can just fight against some of the 11 attackers not sitting in demos. In the old SotA, pretty much everyone was riding in a demo and in my experience there was even less actual PvP happening. SotA still sucks, but it sucked more before the changes.
*edit* oh just teleporting them to a control point if they are already in.
yeah that could suck.
It's kind of ridiculous how easy it is to get conquest points in that manner. Relatively speaking.
So much so that random BG's still seem stupid and pointless.
Well saying it's relatively easy, when the only other source of conquest points is the 25* you get from winning your first daily random BG, is not really saying much.
1.3k points per week. The armour is what, 2.1k for legs / helm / chest, then the gloves / shoulders are, some value I can't remember (1.6k?).
Before, you used to be able to buy all the off-set pieces for honor, but now you need conquest for all of it. The only nice thing, is that you get the conquest points immediately, but I'd debate that the overall grind is any better / easier.
Before, you could just suck it up with 4 other people and belt out 10 games to get the points in 5vs5, but now with having to win games to get points, it's probably not as easy as it once was to look for some people to do some games with just before the reset.
*The 25 points is silly. Not that winning 5 games in arena is hard or particularly time consuming if you really do want the points, but I don't see why it couldn't be updated to 250 points for a win (i.e. if you logged in 5 times in a week and got that win, you'd get pretty close to the cap, but considering the way heroics are changing with their cap, I suppose you could change the daily BG to match that).
Please note, I'm not that fussed about the rate at which I get conquest points outside of arena and rated BG's. I only do pug BG's and the honor set is good enough.
In other words, Blizzard is hamfisting PvP like crazy, as usual.
I think "insulting" is a more apt word than "silly" here. 25 is so close to nothing it could just as well be nothing. Considering that, on average, you're getting 25 CPs from about an hour of time investment (two games per hour, queues being what they are, and a 50% win rate), it's a fucking joke. With all the "points" being on the same scale now, there is no reason that it shouldn't give at the very least 70 CPs for a win.
But, yeah, it needs to be increased significantly, like you said.
There is absolutely no reason that an hour worth of BG should be worth less than two schmucks in trade getting together to dick around and maybe win one match in four.
Kind of sad. Why don't they just remove random BG's from the game? It would be almost the same. Those blues are worth almost nothing considering the queue times I've experienced.
I think it more likely that Blizzard just forgot to update (either increase the costs, or get rid and bump up the honor) the 25 points for this expansion, and have not got around to sorting it out or thought of an alternative they like.
The honor set is going to cost 50% less, resilience will scale better below 3k, and worse beyond (although it would not surprise me if people just started filling in pve gear in those slots once past 3k, but that's just me being cynical) seem to all be steps in the right direction with regards to people gearing up.
Eh?
The way Honor Points are awarded and as flaky as BG queue's seem to be now in non-peak times, you could spend 3+ hours accruing points for a single blue "set" item. Whereas you could just do arena for an hour or less and walk away with a better item and way less frustration.
I think Blizzard misevaluates the real value of casual arena. My only assumption can be that Arena gives more because it requires organization... but there is almost nothing sacred about 90% of the Arena teams in this game. The only difference between a small group queue to a random BG and a slapdash arena team is that you have to click two or three extra buttons.
On another note... jesus christ. I played a Twin Peaks today...both sides had three great healers, and it was stupid.
I am not sure there is anyone happier than I am that they've slowed PVP down and made healing less digital, but I think they overdid it. Twin Peaks should not be 25 minutes of chasing around a Warlock spamming Life Drain and Fear while two shaman and a druid heal the shit out of him.
I think in 10 minutes I may have killed ONE of the three healers and that was with Berserker.
It was just 10 or 11 people fighting each other on the ledge inside the alliance base for half a match... very few deaths. Pretty sure I was in up to 7 or 8 minutes of straight combat in an endless stalemate.
There has certainly been a post saying items you buy with honor, cost 50% less on the ptr. There's also another post, saying the amount of honor you get has been increased by 50% as well.
Whether both are going to happen or not, I can't say, but it's a boost nevertheless.
Difference between honor blues and gear from heroics? They've got the same health pools nearly, but I certainly notice the difference between my 2 kits.
And I think it's not hard to make CTF better in this game, along the lines of marginalizing certain things that give certain specs ridiculous advantages.
Limiting movement speed, limiting effective damage reduction, limiting diminishing returns benefits for Flag carries would be a pretty easy way to make CTF seem more dynamic without making any changes the rest of the game. Or just have a stacking Mortal Strike effect every minute instead of a 50% damage intake debuff right now.