I've seen every episode of the show up until somewhere in the middle of season 27, where I got rid of cable.
Eyepatch Wolf puts a lot of work into researching his videos and the shows his videos covers, and I have no doubt that he watched plenty of modern Simpsons himself.
I've seen every episode of the show up until somewhere in the middle of season 27, where I got rid of cable.
Eyepatch Wolf puts a lot of work into researching his videos and the shows his videos covers, and I have no doubt that he watched plenty of modern Simpsons himself.
But does he mention how the show has evolved post-crappening?
The fundamental changes the show went through and settled into by season 11-12ish, the fundamental changes the video talks about, have stayed that way. The quality of the show has had its ups and downs since then, but the show has a very specific new identity now that has stayed that way for a decade and a half. The video talks about the fundamental changes, not minor ones.
You could take a random selection of episodes from seasons 12-27 and show them to me out of order and I would have a genuinely hard time telling you around when each of them aired. Same for if you did so with a random group of season 3-8 episodes. 1 and 2 are easier because they look and sound rough around the edges, and 9-11 was the middle ground where the shift was happening. In either of those groups, there will be a variance in individual episode quality but they will be there same fundamental show. There is a very real and specific division that has persisted ever since.
The fundamental changes the show went through and settled into by season 11-12ish, the fundamental changes the video talks about, have stayed that way. The quality of the show has had its ups and downs since then, but the show has a very specific new identity now that has stayed that way for a decade and a half. The video talks about the fundamental changes, not minor ones.
You could take a random selection of episodes from seasons 12-27 and show them to me out of order and I would have a genuinely hard time telling you around when each of them aired. Same for if you did so with a random group of season 3-8 episodes. 1 and 2 are easier because they look and sound rough around the edges, and 9-11 was the middle ground where the shift was happening. In either of those groups, there will be a variance in individual episode quality but they will be there same fundamental show. There is a very real and specific division that has persisted ever since.
So in other words, no.
I'd argue that the show has evolved plenty over the years, and that not acknowledging the changes made by the show over the years -- or, at the very least, attempting to refute the fact that it has changed with specific evidence, as you're suggesting -- is pretty much just rehashing the same tut-tutting argument made countless times already over the last 17 years. I'm not spending half an hour on that.
Edit: I'm sure the video makes a very good case for how the Simpsons changed from the early years to season 10 and so, but I'm ready for a fresh take, not one I've heard 47,000 times.
I've spent the majority of my life watching the Simpsons, and I've heard the whole "it's better now!" thing so many times only for me to tune in to each new episode and still see the same problems persist. The show may have changed, but it has not strayed from the core changes that turned it from the show I loved to the show it became.
Wolf does a good job laying out and explaining what those core changes are, and why modern Simpsons has lost its luster with people like me. And does so in a thoughtful way with good, reasonable analysis, not by going "tsk tsk".
I've spent the majority of my life watching the Simpsons, and I've heard the whole "it's better now!" thing so many times only for me to tune in to each new episode and still see the same problems persist. The show may have changed, but it has not strayed from the core changes that turned it from the show I loved to the show it became.
Wolf does a good job laying out and explaining what those core changes are, and why modern Simpsons has lost its luster with people like me. And does so in a thoughtful way with good, reasonable analysis, not by going "tsk tsk".
I've spent the majority of my life watching the Simpsons, and I've heard the whole "it's better now!" thing so many times only for me to tune in to each new episode and still see the same problems persist. The show may have changed, but it has not strayed from the core changes that turned it from the show I loved to the show it became.
Wolf does a good job laying out and explaining what those core changes are, and why modern Simpsons has lost its luster with people like me. And does so in a thoughtful way with good, reasonable analysis, not by going "tsk tsk".
Which is totally fine! I don't mind if you disagree. Personally, I think it's gotten better relatively recently. You disagree, and it's no skin off of my nose if you (or anyone, really) don't watch the show again to see if I'm right.
But honestly, I'd be much more interested in watching the video if it actually compared classic Simpsons to various post-crappening eras, rather than lumping them all as one unchanging blob. If nothing else, to at least give evidence for the Simpsons being an unchanging blob, or at least a compelling reason that the Simpsons has been an unchanging blob. Because otherwise, it's pretty much the same analysis we've been getting for the last 17 years. I'd rather watch something new.
You're not spending 30 minutes to watch the video but you expect me to watch 125.35 hours* of Simpsons to refute yours?
*everything from Season 13 on, roughly when I stopped watching, not counting commercial time; assuming a run time of 23 minutes per episode.
....I literally just said in the post above yours I don't expect anyone to watch something they don't want to in order to prove me wrong. All I said is that the video doesn't interest me.
You know what? I give up. The last time I attempted to to say I enjoyed modern Simpsons I was accused of being a troll, simply for liking the show. I'm too tired for this.
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ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
you don't see to be putting much effort into this yourself. "they're different now! because I said so" um, how? we clearly can't see the difference and you have made no effort to explain what it is
You're not spending 30 minutes to watch the video but you expect me to watch 125.35 hours* of Simpsons to refute yours?
*everything from Season 13 on, roughly when I stopped watching, not counting commercial time; assuming a run time of 23 minutes per episode.
....I literally just said in the post above yours I don't expect anyone to watch something they don't want to in order to prove me wrong. All I said is that the video doesn't interest me.
You know what? I give up. The last time I attempted to to say I enjoyed modern Simpsons I was accused of being a troll, simply for liking the show. I'm too tired for this.
Don't pretend to be interested in criticism and then write off criticism that you refuse to even experience or engage.
You're being deliberately unfair and dismissive of something based on assumptions.
Before we go any further:
Have you even watched seasons 10-28? Can you make a reasonable claim that the show somehow hasn't changed much in 18 years?
Also, you still haven't answered my question on whether or not the video addresses how the show has changed over the last 18 years.
And then you said that you don't care if we don't watch all of it in order to prove you right... but you still expect us to watch it in order for you to listen to the argument.
And then of course dismiss the person who has watched those episodes out of hand.
You're not spending 30 minutes to watch the video but you expect me to watch 125.35 hours* of Simpsons to refute yours?
*everything from Season 13 on, roughly when I stopped watching, not counting commercial time; assuming a run time of 23 minutes per episode.
....I literally just said in the post above yours I don't expect anyone to watch something they don't want to in order to prove me wrong. All I said is that the video doesn't interest me.
You know what? I give up. The last time I attempted to to say I enjoyed modern Simpsons I was accused of being a troll, simply for liking the show. I'm too tired for this.
Don't pretend to be interested in criticism and then write off criticism that you refuse to even experience or engage.
You're being deliberately unfair and dismissive of something based on assumptions.
Before we go any further:
Have you even watched seasons 10-28? Can you make a reasonable claim that the show somehow hasn't changed much in 18 years?
Also, you still haven't answered my question on whether or not the video addresses how the show has changed over the last 18 years.
And then you said that you don't care if we don't watch all of it in order to prove you right... but you still expect us to watch it in order for you to listen to the argument.
And then of course dismiss the person who has watched those episodes out of hand.
No, I didn't dismiss him, I said I disagreed with him. And I disagreed with him respectfully in the same post where I said I don't want to force people to watch stuff they wouldn't like! I just wanted to see if he had actually watched them, for context in the discussion. And when he said he did, I actually acknowledged that.
you don't see to be putting much effort into this yourself. "they're different now! because I said so" um, how? we clearly can't see the difference and you have made no effort to explain what it is
Honestly, does anyone here give a shit what I think about seasons 10-28 at this point? I haven't elaborated because I think I know the answer, given the hostility that happens whenever someone says something beyond "yeah, it sucks now." I'm too tired of the same argument and I'm not egotistical enough to force my opinions.
All I'm arguing is that I don't need to waste 30 minutes of my life on a video that, by definition, makes pretty much the same arguments that have been beaten into my brain with a sledgehammer over the last 18 years, and that I'd love to see criticism that actually acknowledges how the show has changed over that time. If anyone else could point me to some now that I'm curious I would definitely appreciate it.
I genuinely don't understand why some keep saying that video is about a writing staff change when that is only one small part of it. And even then when talking about the writing staff it focuses way more on the structure of the writing staff and how they were organized and their methods used to write the show then about specific writers leaving or coming in.
That video isn't one line of discussion. It's like twenty.
And it's gaining traction because it's well-made and well-done.
It just doesn't give the complexity of the "post-fall" era it's due, is all. It wasn't "2 seasons of promise 7 seasons of gold, and 19 seasons of unchanging shit," there are definite peaks and valleys, and changes that were made after the changes of the early Al Jean era.
While its arguments are complex and well-formed, it's simply a more exhaustive version of the arguments we've heard again and again and again and again over the last 18 years. Plus it assumes the Simpsons have been encased in amber over the last 18 years.
I want that 30 minutes of my life back.
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Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
So out of curiosity, of the problems the video discusses, which ones do you feel are no longer problems in the current incarnation of the show?
Long story short, the plots stopped using the outlandish settings as the source of the humor itself and returned (mostly) to using the outlandish settings as a setting for character humor, the show stopped using celebrities as a "hey, look at this celebrity!" and more to using them for interesting characters, the characters developed more heart and became less of shoehorned joke delivery systems, and the show continues to have relevant things to say about modern society even though it's no longer considered a groundbreaking source of satire for its time (to do that, the Simpsons would have had to have transformed into something akin to South Park or Family Guy, and none of us would want that).
Also, his harping on the horrible "real" Skinner episode kind of takes things out of context as that episode was just abnormally awful even for the season it appeared in.
But beyond that, I disagree with the thesis that if the Simpsons doesn't do everything exactly like seasons 3-7, it's crap. Here's my secret to enjoying modern-day Simpsons: I don't expect it to be like seasons 3-7. I realize that the golden age is gone and never will return. I don't demand that the show have the exact same beats and structure and characterization and details. I don't go, say, "seasons 3-7 would never use a celebrity that way! Therefore it's crap!" I instead go, "was that celebrity used well for that situation?" I do the same for the humor, the satire, the plot structure, the characters, the emotion, etc. etc. Holding up season 3-7 as the only way the Simpsons can be good is like saying Batman's been crap ever since Bob Kane and Bill Finger stopped working on it.
As I've said many, many times before, I don't think modern Simpsons always work. There are missteps, and uneven quality can still be a problem. But even acknowledging that, the show still generates plenty of episodes that do work quite well and, at their best, entertain me as much as an average episode from season 3-7, even if it's a different kind of entertainment.
The comedy is just miserably worse after a point. There are still moments that feel like golden era simpsons, but if you watch a S5 and S15 episode back to back it's... not pretty.
The comedy is just miserably worse after a point. There are still moments that feel like golden era simpsons, but if you watch a S5 and S15 episode back to back it's... not pretty.
Hey, don't look at me to defend seasons 10-20, I'll agree they were pretty lame for the most part. I mean, probably better than 90% of TV on at the time, but still a shadow of what it had been.
See unless something radically changed since like 2015 I think every single problem that video brings up is still a problem in modern Simpsons. I genuinely have not seen a real change.
I wouldn't mind seeing a similar video done on South Park, just comparing the various era's , South Park's been weird in the reverse way of Simpsons I've found. You can sorta tell within seconds what era an episode is from. Yet there's multiple vastly different eras
For the Simpsons critique, every single thing he brings up as being explicitly bad, the golden era had plenty of. It had Homer acting as an absolute total jackass, it had celebrities showing up as themselves, and it had absurd situations. None of his complaints are specific to the era he's trying to decry, and as such I think his real complaint is "this isn't new to me anymore like it was back then, therefore I've grown bored of it and drifted away." I think it would take a much longer, closer, in-depth look at the series that doesn't bundle the seasons after 10 as one big monolith to rail against for a video like this to work properly.
For me, South Park jumped the shark with "Scott Tenorman Must Die" where they overstepped with how evil they could make Cartman and have the show still work.
Theres a difference between something happening very occasionally vs something being how things are every episode.
You can find instances of these things in older episodes here and there, but when judging the overall product and direction of the show the differences are clear.
I have to be the only person who likes "The Principal and the Pauper."
My theory is that every season of The simpsons is it's own canon where every was born a year later (thus, keeping the ages consistent). Therefore, that episode is only canon in that particular season and in seasons referring directly to it.
That said, I haven't watched The Simpsons in a decade because I felt it wasn't that funny anymore. Not so much "too outlandish" but more like.......... slightly soulless, I guess?
I don't agree with the guy on the celebrity issue, but yeah I think there is a good point to be made with regards to characters becoming one dimensional (I've even seen the term "Flanderization" used when talking about other media) and simpler joke structure.
That, and the big thing was how much the show was about being a response to the norms of the day, only to become the norm. Same thing happened to Family Guy, only harsher.
It was about then I stopped watching the simpsons
I came back for a Halloween special that was lame ripping on harry potter {I heard better jokes about it from kids when I played pokemon the CCG }
Posts
That graph is seven years out of date. :P
oh yeah, it gets worse.
You're being deliberately unfair and dismissive of something based on assumptions.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Before we go any further:
Have you even watched seasons 10-28? Can you make a reasonable claim that the show somehow hasn't changed much in 18 years?
Also, you still haven't answered my question on whether or not the video addresses how the show has changed over the last 18 years.
Eyepatch Wolf puts a lot of work into researching his videos and the shows his videos covers, and I have no doubt that he watched plenty of modern Simpsons himself.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
and yet you can't be bothered to watch a short youtube video?
But does he mention how the show has evolved post-crappening?
You could take a random selection of episodes from seasons 12-27 and show them to me out of order and I would have a genuinely hard time telling you around when each of them aired. Same for if you did so with a random group of season 3-8 episodes. 1 and 2 are easier because they look and sound rough around the edges, and 9-11 was the middle ground where the shift was happening. In either of those groups, there will be a variance in individual episode quality but they will be there same fundamental show. There is a very real and specific division that has persisted ever since.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
So in other words, no.
I'd argue that the show has evolved plenty over the years, and that not acknowledging the changes made by the show over the years -- or, at the very least, attempting to refute the fact that it has changed with specific evidence, as you're suggesting -- is pretty much just rehashing the same tut-tutting argument made countless times already over the last 17 years. I'm not spending half an hour on that.
Edit: I'm sure the video makes a very good case for how the Simpsons changed from the early years to season 10 and so, but I'm ready for a fresh take, not one I've heard 47,000 times.
Wolf does a good job laying out and explaining what those core changes are, and why modern Simpsons has lost its luster with people like me. And does so in a thoughtful way with good, reasonable analysis, not by going "tsk tsk".
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Which is totally fine! I don't mind if you disagree. Personally, I think it's gotten better relatively recently. You disagree, and it's no skin off of my nose if you (or anyone, really) don't watch the show again to see if I'm right.
But honestly, I'd be much more interested in watching the video if it actually compared classic Simpsons to various post-crappening eras, rather than lumping them all as one unchanging blob. If nothing else, to at least give evidence for the Simpsons being an unchanging blob, or at least a compelling reason that the Simpsons has been an unchanging blob. Because otherwise, it's pretty much the same analysis we've been getting for the last 17 years. I'd rather watch something new.
*everything from Season 13 on, roughly when I stopped watching, not counting commercial time; assuming a run time of 23 minutes per episode.
....I literally just said in the post above yours I don't expect anyone to watch something they don't want to in order to prove me wrong. All I said is that the video doesn't interest me.
You know what? I give up. The last time I attempted to to say I enjoyed modern Simpsons I was accused of being a troll, simply for liking the show. I'm too tired for this.
Has the show changed over the last 18 years?
No. This is what you said.
And then you said that you don't care if we don't watch all of it in order to prove you right... but you still expect us to watch it in order for you to listen to the argument.
And then of course dismiss the person who has watched those episodes out of hand.
No, I didn't dismiss him, I said I disagreed with him. And I disagreed with him respectfully in the same post where I said I don't want to force people to watch stuff they wouldn't like! I just wanted to see if he had actually watched them, for context in the discussion. And when he said he did, I actually acknowledged that.
Honestly, does anyone here give a shit what I think about seasons 10-28 at this point? I haven't elaborated because I think I know the answer, given the hostility that happens whenever someone says something beyond "yeah, it sucks now." I'm too tired of the same argument and I'm not egotistical enough to force my opinions.
All I'm arguing is that I don't need to waste 30 minutes of my life on a video that, by definition, makes pretty much the same arguments that have been beaten into my brain with a sledgehammer over the last 18 years, and that I'd love to see criticism that actually acknowledges how the show has changed over that time. If anyone else could point me to some now that I'm curious I would definitely appreciate it.
Pretty good breakdown of Simpsons losing relevancy beginning with a shift in writing staff
edit- saw this was posted 2 pages back but uh, watch it again?
That video isn't one line of discussion. It's like twenty.
And it's gaining traction because it's well-made and well-done.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
While its arguments are complex and well-formed, it's simply a more exhaustive version of the arguments we've heard again and again and again and again over the last 18 years. Plus it assumes the Simpsons have been encased in amber over the last 18 years.
I want that 30 minutes of my life back.
Funny, that's how I feel about anything post S11
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Long story short, the plots stopped using the outlandish settings as the source of the humor itself and returned (mostly) to using the outlandish settings as a setting for character humor, the show stopped using celebrities as a "hey, look at this celebrity!" and more to using them for interesting characters, the characters developed more heart and became less of shoehorned joke delivery systems, and the show continues to have relevant things to say about modern society even though it's no longer considered a groundbreaking source of satire for its time (to do that, the Simpsons would have had to have transformed into something akin to South Park or Family Guy, and none of us would want that).
Also, his harping on the horrible "real" Skinner episode kind of takes things out of context as that episode was just abnormally awful even for the season it appeared in.
But beyond that, I disagree with the thesis that if the Simpsons doesn't do everything exactly like seasons 3-7, it's crap. Here's my secret to enjoying modern-day Simpsons: I don't expect it to be like seasons 3-7. I realize that the golden age is gone and never will return. I don't demand that the show have the exact same beats and structure and characterization and details. I don't go, say, "seasons 3-7 would never use a celebrity that way! Therefore it's crap!" I instead go, "was that celebrity used well for that situation?" I do the same for the humor, the satire, the plot structure, the characters, the emotion, etc. etc. Holding up season 3-7 as the only way the Simpsons can be good is like saying Batman's been crap ever since Bob Kane and Bill Finger stopped working on it.
As I've said many, many times before, I don't think modern Simpsons always work. There are missteps, and uneven quality can still be a problem. But even acknowledging that, the show still generates plenty of episodes that do work quite well and, at their best, entertain me as much as an average episode from season 3-7, even if it's a different kind of entertainment.
But that's just my thoughts of course.
Hey, don't look at me to defend seasons 10-20, I'll agree they were pretty lame for the most part. I mean, probably better than 90% of TV on at the time, but still a shadow of what it had been.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
For me, South Park jumped the shark with "Scott Tenorman Must Die" where they overstepped with how evil they could make Cartman and have the show still work.
You can find instances of these things in older episodes here and there, but when judging the overall product and direction of the show the differences are clear.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
My theory is that every season of The simpsons is it's own canon where every was born a year later (thus, keeping the ages consistent). Therefore, that episode is only canon in that particular season and in seasons referring directly to it.
That said, I haven't watched The Simpsons in a decade because I felt it wasn't that funny anymore. Not so much "too outlandish" but more like.......... slightly soulless, I guess?
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Nope love it. I think its brilliant commentary on how the simpsons universe worked at that time.
If youre mad about Armen Tanzarian then you missed the point imo
I don't agree with the guy on the celebrity issue, but yeah I think there is a good point to be made with regards to characters becoming one dimensional (I've even seen the term "Flanderization" used when talking about other media) and simpler joke structure.
That, and the big thing was how much the show was about being a response to the norms of the day, only to become the norm. Same thing happened to Family Guy, only harsher.
It was about then I stopped watching the simpsons
I came back for a Halloween special that was lame ripping on harry potter {I heard better jokes about it from kids when I played pokemon the CCG }