It's a shame IdrA lost that 6th game when he basically outplayed Jinro non-stop.
But that's the price of skimping on upgrades, I guess. 3/3 marines are just too strong against poorly upgraded muta/ling after all your banes pop.
Nothing against Jinro, but that game made me hate Terran. More I guess.
Yeah like, I don't think it's super-imba if you basically win on the back of upgrades, but even Jinro basically said "lol marines, lol terran" in the post interview.
Was a bit funny/sad.
kedinik on
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Jinro totally played better (less bad) than Idra in game 6. Idra's macro was terrible for him. Barely any upgrades, bases unsaturated/queenless/injectless for a long time, too slow T3. He also sacrificed far too many mutas to harass because Jinro kept producing SCVs even when saturated so he had enough left to mine at 90% of capacity+ all the time, so his harass was mostly meaningless. Jinro was too slow getting his fourth though. The first big battle pretty much just came down to no upgrades + no baneling speed meaning Idra didn't win, even then Jinro only had a few units left. After that Idra kep engaging with small armies despite the fact that Jinro's marines were 3/3 and marines are amazing in smaller battles even without that, so they were all wasted.
Sure it was mostly a fluke because of Idra forgetting bane speed, but Jinro didn't make a single actual mistake, and the only quesstionable decision was waiting too long to get his fourth. If Idra hadn't constantly muta-harassed he'd probably have tried some drop harassment himself, which would be the main improvement he could make (but between OLs and the way Idra kept circling his base, any drops would probably have been seen).
Idra made poor decisions in several games and lost because of them. When Jinro went mass thor Idra didn't have any broodlords out to punish that (The GSL Code A matches show how powerful that can be) and in the last game Idra was behind on upgrades (baneling speed for reals) the entire game.
Jinro totally played better (less bad) than Idra in game 6. Idra's macro was terrible for him. Barely any upgrades, bases unsaturated/queenless/injectless for a long time, too slow T3. He also sacrificed far too many mutas to harass because Jinro kept producing SCVs even when saturated so he had enough left to mine at 90% of capacity+ all the time, so his harass was mostly meaningless. Jinro was too slow getting his fourth though. The first big battle pretty much just came down to no upgrades + no baneling speed meaning Idra didn't win, even then Jinro only had a few units left. After that Idra kep engaging with small armies despite the fact that Jinro's marines were 3/3 and marines are amazing in smaller battles even without that, so they were all wasted.
Sure it was mostly a fluke because of Idra forgetting bane speed, but Jinro didn't make a single actual mistake, and the only quesstionable decision was waiting too long to get his fourth. If Idra hadn't constantly muta-harassed he'd probably have tried some drop harassment himself, which would be the main improvement he could make (but between OLs and the way Idra kept circling his base, any drops would probably have been seen).
you're entire quote makes it sound like the reality - Idra got outplayed badly.
I wish I could find that episode of BNet attack where a pro was off-racing as T in BW and smashing newbies while talking about how op T bio is.
There were also periods of years in BW where one race was dominant, now-a-days I get the feeling we wouldn't have a bonjwa even if we had a dude winning everything, we'd just get a bunch of people screaming "imba!".
Yet IdrA made some massive and costly mistakes that allowed Jinro to win. It wasn't Terran imba imba lol (Hint: He was joking in the interview...), it was that IdrA fell apart and threw that game away.
I'm just saying IdrA was in a strong lead for 90% of that game until he died to a handful of a-moved marines, and even Jinro acknowledged that was a little silly.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
I'm just saying IdrA was in a strong lead for 90% of that game until he died to a handful of a-moved marines, and even Jinro acknowledged that was a little silly.
He was in it for about half the game. After Jinro had his third secured, IdrA's harass stopped being effective. He didn't transition into Infestors early enough, didn't get Baneling Speed, didn't mass expand for more gasses, lost his Greater Spire because of terrible positioning, and never upgraded past the first level. 3/3 anything will rofl-stomp through 1/0, so complaining that he just a-moved a handful of Marines is a bit oversimplified. It was a shitload of Marines, constantly being reinforced, and supported with a handful of tanks, fighting IdrA in a horrible spot for IdrA.
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I would like to point out that during the entire game Jinro had MORE harvesters than IdrA.
That's right.
Even with the "effective" muta harass, every time they pulled up the income tab, Jinro was ahead in harvesters.
Jinro was 3/3 while Idra was 0/1.
IdrA never got baneling speed.
Idra kept sacking mutalisks into marine clusters.
Don't try to go "lolterran" and act like IdrA just got screwed because of balance. Sneaking expos =/= playing a good game. Expos do you no good if you have FEWER HARVESTERS THAN YOUR OPPONENT.
IdrA got outplayed. Jinro played a better macro game and had much better unit control.
Saying Jinro just a-moved marines is really goosey. Have you tried splitting marines while targeting banelings with your tanks at the same time? Shit is really hard to do well. During the big battles, I'm pretty sure that Terran actually requires significantly more micro than Z.
And Jinro splits beautifully, especially in that game on crossfire.
I also actually agree with THREEclipse for once, IdrA got outplayed in all respects during that last game. Muta harass looked very impressive but actually didn't do crazy damage (mostly turrets) and the two expos were undersaturated.
And I'm an IdrA fan, but Jinro went toe-to-toe with Idra's macro that series, and was more prepared strategically (ex - his mech game).
During the big battles, I'm pretty sure that Terran actually requires significantly more micro than Z.
I can't say I agree with this, I think they are just as difficult as each other. You have to micro your lings to get proper surrounds while not bunching up too much, micro banelings to split up right to counter the splitting of marines while not going for tanks, and make sure your mutas target the tanks or smaller groups of marines. Throw in infestors and that's even more micro.
Most Zs I play just a-move. Most of their micro occurs before battle (poking with lings/mutas to see perfect time to attack, positioning some units for a flank, picking off unguarded tanks, etc.).
Meh, maybe I'm just not encountering those level of players yet, or I'm not paying attention or something. Either way, the main point is T is far, far, from a-move in TvZ.
Most Zs I play just a-move. Most of their micro occurs before battle (poking with lings/mutas to see perfect time to attack, positioning some units for a flank, picking off unguarded tanks, etc.).
Meh, maybe I'm just not encountering those level of players yet, or I'm not paying attention or something. Either way, the main point is T is far, far, from a-move in TvZ.
Well, there's probably just as many terran who just a-move or run their marines back in a group and don't micro their tank targets, as there is zerg who just a-move.
But if we talk about how both races should micro in a battle, I'd say they have to work just as hard as each other.
I wasn't commenting on the Jinro vs Idra game though, I was just saying that I've lost several long long games where I pretty much just get all of the Terran's crap, but he's got so many billion-hp raxes that I've pretty much lost to him just being able to get some marines and end the game with them.
Satsumomo on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Barracks have 1000 hit points.
Which is the same as all other T1 infantry production structures.
I made a habit of doubling up on tech structures if I'm worried about building sniping or base trading. Only in late game though, or if they are shooting at one of them already (can cancel if I fend them off).
But it is kinda sweet to lose your spawning pool and so you can't make any lings/queens/spinecrawlers at all.
That does suck as a Zerg player to lose your ability to make units, but at least you don't have to spend 150 minerals just to have the ability to produce more than one man every 30 seconds.
I know I'd LOVE to have an upgrade that would allow me the option to create SCV's from all my Barracks, Factories, or Starports in addition to the regular units they can create.
Come to think of it, what's with all this Terran and Zerg hatin' on each other? Aren't we supposed to rally against the Clowntoss?
MNC Dover on
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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The series today was a letdown. Any good streams going now?
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
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But that's the price of skimping on upgrades, I guess. 3/3 marines are just too strong against poorly upgraded muta/ling after all your banes pop.
Was a bit funny/sad.
Sure it was mostly a fluke because of Idra forgetting bane speed, but Jinro didn't make a single actual mistake, and the only quesstionable decision was waiting too long to get his fourth. If Idra hadn't constantly muta-harassed he'd probably have tried some drop harassment himself, which would be the main improvement he could make (but between OLs and the way Idra kept circling his base, any drops would probably have been seen).
you're entire quote makes it sound like the reality - Idra got outplayed badly.
Joe's Stream.
Joe's Stream.
There were also periods of years in BW where one race was dominant, now-a-days I get the feeling we wouldn't have a bonjwa even if we had a dude winning everything, we'd just get a bunch of people screaming "imba!".
Completely shut down Jinro's scouting all game long, snuck 2 expos that Jinro was clueless about, killed scv's basically at will.
Seriously, Jinro said he misplayed that game but that "marines are pretty good, hahahah."
http://www.justin.tv/enigma435
Or not streaming per joe's request...sorry.
He was in it for about half the game. After Jinro had his third secured, IdrA's harass stopped being effective. He didn't transition into Infestors early enough, didn't get Baneling Speed, didn't mass expand for more gasses, lost his Greater Spire because of terrible positioning, and never upgraded past the first level. 3/3 anything will rofl-stomp through 1/0, so complaining that he just a-moved a handful of Marines is a bit oversimplified. It was a shitload of Marines, constantly being reinforced, and supported with a handful of tanks, fighting IdrA in a horrible spot for IdrA.
He lost because he fucked up.
I'm saying for the last time that I'm nevertheless sad because Jinro played worse in all other respects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLaDN3YZJAU
That's right.
Even with the "effective" muta harass, every time they pulled up the income tab, Jinro was ahead in harvesters.
Jinro was 3/3 while Idra was 0/1.
IdrA never got baneling speed.
Idra kept sacking mutalisks into marine clusters.
Don't try to go "lolterran" and act like IdrA just got screwed because of balance. Sneaking expos =/= playing a good game. Expos do you no good if you have FEWER HARVESTERS THAN YOUR OPPONENT.
IdrA got outplayed. Jinro played a better macro game and had much better unit control.
And Jinro splits beautifully, especially in that game on crossfire.
I also actually agree with THREEclipse for once, IdrA got outplayed in all respects during that last game. Muta harass looked very impressive but actually didn't do crazy damage (mostly turrets) and the two expos were undersaturated.
And I'm an IdrA fan, but Jinro went toe-to-toe with Idra's macro that series, and was more prepared strategically (ex - his mech game).
I can't say I agree with this, I think they are just as difficult as each other. You have to micro your lings to get proper surrounds while not bunching up too much, micro banelings to split up right to counter the splitting of marines while not going for tanks, and make sure your mutas target the tanks or smaller groups of marines. Throw in infestors and that's even more micro.
rusty! build +1 roaches kill all speedlings!
Meh, maybe I'm just not encountering those level of players yet, or I'm not paying attention or something. Either way, the main point is T is far, far, from a-move in TvZ.
-
And I always thought it was the Protoss that were space orcs.
Well, there's probably just as many terran who just a-move or run their marines back in a group and don't micro their tank targets, as there is zerg who just a-move.
But if we talk about how both races should micro in a battle, I'd say they have to work just as hard as each other.
Protoss don't though. Just mass FF and win :P
Which is the same as all other T1 infantry production structures.
...
But it is kinda sweet to lose your spawning pool and so you can't make any lings/queens/spinecrawlers at all.
Every time a caster says templer instead of templar, a rocket full of kittens is shot into the sun.
GAH
That does suck as a Zerg player to lose your ability to make units, but at least you don't have to spend 150 minerals just to have the ability to produce more than one man every 30 seconds.
I know I'd LOVE to have an upgrade that would allow me the option to create SCV's from all my Barracks, Factories, or Starports in addition to the regular units they can create.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Eldar ;p
And Tyranid and Imperial, ofc... no space Orcs out thar
Hmmm how many hours till that? 45m would put it at the same start time as last night iirc