man I'm getting dangerously close to being ranked 1 in my bronze division
it's good and bad... what I want is a promotion but I don't deserve one yet. still way to close to 50/50 against equal level people. argh. still lose to dumb things.
embrace the #1 spot, and make it impossible for the rest of your div to come close.
eventually, you'll figure out how to beat higher level players. but damnit, your beter than the rst of the idiots in your div.
oh I'll wear it loud and proud believe me I just want more
i hear ya. i'd rather be a 300 point gold than a 3000 point bronze.
man I'm getting dangerously close to being ranked 1 in my bronze division
it's good and bad... what I want is a promotion but I don't deserve one yet. still way to close to 50/50 against equal level people. argh. still lose to dumb things.
embrace the #1 spot, and make it impossible for the rest of your div to come close.
eventually, you'll figure out how to beat higher level players. but damnit, your beter than the rst of the idiots in your div.
oh I'll wear it loud and proud believe me I just want more
i hear ya. i'd rather be a 300 point gold than a 3000 point bronze.
i'm fairly sure Vari mistyped Bronze and meant Diamond because he's nearly 3k diamond.
Hello. How come I lost to this zerg? I scouted his roaches, built lots of stalkers + immortals, sniped his expo while getting my own up, but he still over-ran me. What gives?
Hello. How come I lost to this zerg? I scouted his roaches, built lots of stalkers + immortals, sniped his expo while getting my own up, but he still over-ran me. What gives?
After your successful initial attack and after investing heavily into your economy (look at the worker count when he's about to counterattack you, it's like 41-27) instead of taking advantage of your economy and getting out some immortals or colossi or a void ray and more gateway units you choose to attack into 9 roaches and 2 spinecrawlers with 6 stalkers, 3 zealots and 1 (ONE!?) sentry with no forward pylon. You can't afford to lose your entire army like that to a zerg. After that you spam out a ton of stalkers with no zealots to help tank and only have one immortal to defend against his push, and no cannons at your expo to hide behind.
Should've waited longer for your econ to kick in a bit, in that game once you saw that amount of roaches probably pumped out some more immortals and zealots and for the love of god a sentry or two, and then done some later aggression.
1) In ZvP, metagame shifts mean that you can't risk fast expanding or going early mutas without being punished for it heavily (with cannons or phoenixes, respectively).
2) Like horizontal shakuras, colo/stalker and marine/tank pushes through the rocks are difficult to stop.
3) Taking and defending your third becomes extremely difficult if you allow your opponent to pick up their third in turn.
In short, it's no basin, but mid-/late-game on scrap can be incredibly uncomfortable for zerg.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
After your successful initial attack and after investing heavily into your economy (look at the worker count when he's about to counterattack you, it's like 41-27) instead of taking advantage of your economy and getting out some immortals or colossi or a void ray and more gateway units you choose to attack into 9 roaches and 2 spinecrawlers with 6 stalkers, 3 zealots and 1 (ONE!?) sentry with no forward pylon.
Should've waited longer for your econ to kick in a bit, in that game once you saw that amount of roaches probably pumped out some more immortals and zealots and for the love of god a sentry or two, and then done some later aggression.
After I killed off his expo, I figured that with my reinforcements heading in, he wouldn't be able to make any more stuff... I thought if I didn't push my advantage then, being zerg, he'd catch right up... I take it this is the wrong approach?
In my mind all I saw were a billion drones hatching at once and my econ advantage disappearing, so my mind screamed GO NOW GO GO.
And lastly, the sentry thing... When the unit numbers are that low, I can see the appeal of cutting the army in half with forcefields... but in small numbers they practically move in a line, how do you cut them in half?
Spaffy on
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Hello. How come I lost to this zerg? I scouted his roaches, built lots of stalkers + immortals, sniped his expo while getting my own up, but he still over-ran me. What gives?
Watching it now. Don't have time for a detailed analysis, I'll type this up as I go
1) Forge and cannon was a waste of 300 minerals. That was a standard pool timing.
2) You had LONG periods of time (and lots of them) where you were making no workers. You were behind on workers despite his later expansion AND him making a ton of lings that did nothing.
3) You threw your army away against his front defenses at 11mins. You were ahead until you did that. From there you just had no units to defend with.
4) You pushed out AGAIN with your stalkers and 1 immortal, putting yourself in a position where Zerglings could surround you.
After your successful initial attack and after investing heavily into your economy (look at the worker count when he's about to counterattack you, it's like 41-27) instead of taking advantage of your economy and getting out some immortals or colossi or a void ray and more gateway units you choose to attack into 9 roaches and 2 spinecrawlers with 6 stalkers, 3 zealots and 1 (ONE!?) sentry with no forward pylon.
Should've waited longer for your econ to kick in a bit, in that game once you saw that amount of roaches probably pumped out some more immortals and zealots and for the love of god a sentry or two, and then done some later aggression.
After I killed off his expo, I figured that with my reinforcements heading in, he wouldn't be able to make any more stuff... I thought if I didn't push my advantage then, being zerg, he'd catch right up... I take it this is the wrong approach?
In my mind all I saw were a billion drones hatching at once and my econ advantage disappearing, so my mind screamed GO NOW GO GO.
If he hatches a billion drones now he'll have no army while your army and economy continue to grow.
He doesn't seem very high level to me. No, you didnt need broodlords. Perhaps making Hydras and Corrupters might've helped you?!
Complaining about Scrap as Zerg. I think he's bad.
Yeah but he is Masters League. His knowledge doesn't seem the greatest but he gets wins somehow, micro maybe?
He can complain and it doesn't make him bad at the game. Maybe his strategy is really bad on scrap station, but works well (or he executes it well enough) on other maps, so he feels like scrap is imba.
Hello. How come I lost to this zerg? I scouted his roaches, built lots of stalkers + immortals, sniped his expo while getting my own up, but he still over-ran me. What gives?
You didn't make enough probes and you threw away your army on the second push. Once you saw those spines you should've been out of there. I feel like your first push would've outright killed him if you hadn't built the forge and cannons (it would've been there substantially earlier.
I never liked scrap as zerg... even though I was told I should.
- The multiple chokes just make it impossible to surround and macro.
- You can only get to 3 bases once you've already won (breaking the rocks favor the other races heavily due to their siege weapons)
- And yes a safe natural favours the other races because that's all they usually need until late mid-game
Hello. How come I lost to this zerg? I scouted his roaches, built lots of stalkers + immortals, sniped his expo while getting my own up, but he still over-ran me. What gives?
Watching it now. Don't have time for a detailed analysis, I'll type this up as I go
1) Forge and cannon was a waste of 300 minerals. That was a standard pool timing.
2) You had LONG periods of time (and lots of them) where you were making no workers. You were behind on workers despite his later expansion AND him making a ton of lings that did nothing.
3) You threw your army away against his front defenses at 11mins. You were ahead until you did that. From there you just had no units to defend with.
4) You pushed out AGAIN with your stalkers and 1 immortal, putting yourself in a position where Zerglings could surround you.
After your successful initial attack and after investing heavily into your economy (look at the worker count when he's about to counterattack you, it's like 41-27) instead of taking advantage of your economy and getting out some immortals or colossi or a void ray and more gateway units you choose to attack into 9 roaches and 2 spinecrawlers with 6 stalkers, 3 zealots and 1 (ONE!?) sentry with no forward pylon.
Should've waited longer for your econ to kick in a bit, in that game once you saw that amount of roaches probably pumped out some more immortals and zealots and for the love of god a sentry or two, and then done some later aggression.
After I killed off his expo, I figured that with my reinforcements heading in, he wouldn't be able to make any more stuff... I thought if I didn't push my advantage then, being zerg, he'd catch right up... I take it this is the wrong approach?
In my mind all I saw were a billion drones hatching at once and my econ advantage disappearing, so my mind screamed GO NOW GO GO.
If he hatches a billion drones now he'll have no army while your army and economy continue to grow.
Thank you Dhal. Point taken about the probes but I was never more than 3 workers behind him and then I overtook him by quite some distance? I'll watch it again and check, though. That was the reason I attacked when I did - I thought my econ advantage would mean he had nothing to defend with.
I definitely should have retreated in both occasions but in the time it took me to take my eyes off battle, warp in more units, and move back to the battle, all my army were dead
I feel like your first push would've outright killed him if you hadn't built the forge and cannons (it would've been there substantially earlier.
At the time I thought it seemed like an early pool... when I see a pool and gas go down close together like that my first thought is roach rush Wish I could remember what scouting info actually means!
So I just got worker rushed on Steppes...but it was only with the original six drones. And I'm protoss.
Before that, a guy left instantly at the start of the game. I looked at his match history and he'd lost 20 games in a row in the past hour. He was platinum, so I guess he's looking to get demoted.
Bronze is seriously the best. Also, I don't care what anyone says, to win in bronze, you only need macro. Well, and the ability to hold off some early bullshit. But seriously, every single game I've won (that people have actually tried to win), I've had double or 33% larger of an army as basically all times. And my macro is really, really not good.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Bronze is fun. Some days I want to tank myself to bronze just so that I can fuck around and do weird stuff and not get annihilated.
It is fun. No one seems to know about, or at least is able to implement in any effective way, timing pushes, counter attacks, upgrades, expanding, any of it.
I don't want to talk like I'm too far above it all, but...well, so far, I kinda am.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
It is fun. No one seems to know about, or at least is able to implement in any effective way, timing pushes, counter attacks, upgrades, expanding, any of it.
I don't want to talk like I'm too far above it all, but...well, so far, I kinda am.
Wait til you get to the giddy heights of gold!
Seriously fuck gold
Spaffy on
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
although knowing how itll be, incontrol will just restate what has been announced, maybe get tangental on a few points like the voting or something and not really go into depth on things that matter
oh well
i dont think theres a way someone could unhype me for nasl
i dont think theres a way someone could unhype me for nasl
"The production quality will be equal to or worse than that of the showmatch."
Jk. Hope they sort all of that out before the first season, though. I really do expect the quality to meet or exceed that of the GSL stream/broadcasts.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
i dont think theres a way someone could unhype me for nasl
The production quality will be equal to or worse than that of the showmatch.
Jk. Hope they sort all of that out before the first season, though. I really do expect the quality to meet or exceed that of the GSL stream/broadcasts.
see i have realized that is a distinct possibility
doesnt phase me
although
if this whole thing faceplants, im scared about the possibility of it scaring away any future investors in esports
i dont think theres a way someone could unhype me for nasl
The production quality will be equal to or worse than that of the showmatch.
Jk. Hope they sort all of that out before the first season, though. I really do expect the quality to meet or exceed that of the GSL stream/broadcasts.
see i have realized that is a distinct possibility
doesnt phase me
although
if this whole thing faceplants, im scared about the possibility of it scaring away any future investors in esports
That's actually my fear too. I have no worries about there being a good 3 seasons of starcraft games. I'm worried about production values not meeting the expectations of a 20-25$/season, and the lack of big sponsors to give a sense that the whole thing will last after the initial season.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
alright I like 1 and 2 a lot, not so much 3. maybe... it looks really difficult to expand at all but idk for sure... I guess rocks do count for something
we literally cant talk about the game in this thread
Ah ok. I agree with that easy nat defense takes one of the problematic areas out of zerg gameplay (i.e., early game cheese). I wouldn't say that the map is necessarily zerg favored though as a result because it can suffer from jungle basin syndrome where a third (and consequently your fourth or fifth) is difficult to hold. And zerg need those extra bases to break mid-/late-game protoss and terran.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
NASL is sponsored by Blizzard at least, dunno who else (if anyone).
I assume it's just blizzard because if there were sponsors already, they would have their branding all over the website. And also I wonder how much of that money is coming from Blizzard.
I think an entirely-blizzard sponsored league feels stable. A league that only has blizzard's backing in name has me worried for its future without other sponsors propping it up.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Posts
i hear ya. i'd rather be a 300 point gold than a 3000 point bronze.
Joe's Stream.
Man, if only I had spent thousands of hours learning how to draw then I could have won the computer instead
Oh well, at least I'm pretty good at starcraft! That's a much cooler skill.
holy shit! nice! post up specs and pictures!
i'm fairly sure Vari mistyped Bronze and meant Diamond because he's nearly 3k diamond.
Steam: adamjnet
But stilllllll awesome.
Should've waited longer for your econ to kick in a bit, in that game once you saw that amount of roaches probably pumped out some more immortals and zealots and for the love of god a sentry or two, and then done some later aggression.
1) In ZvP, metagame shifts mean that you can't risk fast expanding or going early mutas without being punished for it heavily (with cannons or phoenixes, respectively).
2) Like horizontal shakuras, colo/stalker and marine/tank pushes through the rocks are difficult to stop.
3) Taking and defending your third becomes extremely difficult if you allow your opponent to pick up their third in turn.
In short, it's no basin, but mid-/late-game on scrap can be incredibly uncomfortable for zerg.
After I killed off his expo, I figured that with my reinforcements heading in, he wouldn't be able to make any more stuff... I thought if I didn't push my advantage then, being zerg, he'd catch right up... I take it this is the wrong approach?
In my mind all I saw were a billion drones hatching at once and my econ advantage disappearing, so my mind screamed GO NOW GO GO.
And lastly, the sentry thing... When the unit numbers are that low, I can see the appeal of cutting the army in half with forcefields... but in small numbers they practically move in a line, how do you cut them in half?
Steam: adamjnet
Watching it now. Don't have time for a detailed analysis, I'll type this up as I go
1) Forge and cannon was a waste of 300 minerals. That was a standard pool timing.
2) You had LONG periods of time (and lots of them) where you were making no workers. You were behind on workers despite his later expansion AND him making a ton of lings that did nothing.
3) You threw your army away against his front defenses at 11mins. You were ahead until you did that. From there you just had no units to defend with.
4) You pushed out AGAIN with your stalkers and 1 immortal, putting yourself in a position where Zerglings could surround you.
If he hatches a billion drones now he'll have no army while your army and economy continue to grow.
He can complain and it doesn't make him bad at the game. Maybe his strategy is really bad on scrap station, but works well (or he executes it well enough) on other maps, so he feels like scrap is imba.
You didn't make enough probes and you threw away your army on the second push. Once you saw those spines you should've been out of there. I feel like your first push would've outright killed him if you hadn't built the forge and cannons (it would've been there substantially earlier.
- The multiple chokes just make it impossible to surround and macro.
- You can only get to 3 bases once you've already won (breaking the rocks favor the other races heavily due to their siege weapons)
- And yes a safe natural favours the other races because that's all they usually need until late mid-game
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
hopefully ill play some more after dinner
Thank you Dhal. Point taken about the probes but I was never more than 3 workers behind him and then I overtook him by quite some distance? I'll watch it again and check, though. That was the reason I attacked when I did - I thought my econ advantage would mean he had nothing to defend with.
I definitely should have retreated in both occasions but in the time it took me to take my eyes off battle, warp in more units, and move back to the battle, all my army were dead
At the time I thought it seemed like an early pool... when I see a pool and gas go down close together like that my first thought is roach rush
Steam: adamjnet
Before that, a guy left instantly at the start of the game. I looked at his match history and he'd lost 20 games in a row in the past hour. He was platinum, so I guess he's looking to get demoted.
Bronze is seriously the best. Also, I don't care what anyone says, to win in bronze, you only need macro. Well, and the ability to hold off some early bullshit. But seriously, every single game I've won (that people have actually tried to win), I've had double or 33% larger of an army as basically all times. And my macro is really, really not good.
I don't want to talk like I'm too far above it all, but...well, so far, I kinda am.
boo
maybe they announced it and I forgot.
Wait til you get to the giddy heights of gold!
Seriously fuck gold
Steam: adamjnet
JP and iNcontroL's twitters both say there'll be one.
i would hope theres a sotg tonight
want more juicy details on nasl
although knowing how itll be, incontrol will just restate what has been announced, maybe get tangental on a few points like the voting or something and not really go into depth on things that matter
oh well
i dont think theres a way someone could unhype me for nasl
"The production quality will be equal to or worse than that of the showmatch."
It is impossible for me to disagree more with this.
like
we cant even start
its just words
1.21 TestMap1
1.21 TestMap2
1.21 TestMap3
1.21 TestMap4
1.21 TestMap5
Was that quote in reference to scrap station or just in general?
see i have realized that is a distinct possibility
doesnt phase me
although
if this whole thing faceplants, im scared about the possibility of it scaring away any future investors in esports
we literally cant talk about the game in this thread
fucking aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
That's actually my fear too. I have no worries about there being a good 3 seasons of starcraft games. I'm worried about production values not meeting the expectations of a 20-25$/season, and the lack of big sponsors to give a sense that the whole thing will last after the initial season.
yeah, and the mlg ceo sounded like he is going to support sc2 for as long as he is getting sponsors
although, did nasl say who their sponsors were?
i should probably just wait and see with nasl rather than speculating though
edit: Pretty much the same for foreign statistics, too.
Ah ok. I agree with that easy nat defense takes one of the problematic areas out of zerg gameplay (i.e., early game cheese). I wouldn't say that the map is necessarily zerg favored though as a result because it can suffer from jungle basin syndrome where a third (and consequently your fourth or fifth) is difficult to hold. And zerg need those extra bases to break mid-/late-game protoss and terran.
I assume it's just blizzard because if there were sponsors already, they would have their branding all over the website. And also I wonder how much of that money is coming from Blizzard.
I think an entirely-blizzard sponsored league feels stable. A league that only has blizzard's backing in name has me worried for its future without other sponsors propping it up.