I have no problems with those items, I just want to see what Nintendo can do when they don't have the old staples to fall back on. A whole game of deku leaves and zora masks and spinners. I haven't played Zelda 2, but now I want to check it out.
The trouble with giving these up is that they are solutions to very common problems - breaking holes in walls, hitting far away objects / bringing items back to you, and pulling yourself to hard-to-reach areas.
As a result they'd probably just fix those old problems with almost identical items or just design around them.
For example, if you're going to limit yourself that you can't use bombs to blow up rocks and make holes in walls, it'd be very easy to just say "ok, no more cracked walls, now they're all doors that require common keys."
Or if you can't use a hookshot to get yourself to a hard-to-reach spot, then instead you just have a "grappling hook" sort of like Wind Waker (though I know later it had a hookshot). Or alternatively, you just make it so that a hookshot isn't required and every area is reachable on foot.
It'd be extremely forced not to have them in. I don't know how you could do it without a) designing the game so those items aren't needed or b) giving you the same item with a different name.
It would be great if there were many more combinations of items you could use. Not necessarily on the level of bomb-arrows (though these are very cool and a great idea!), which is literally using two items at once.
I'm thinking more like, wearing iron boots + hookshot or grappling hook more or less makes you an anchor and can be used to pull things toward you, or drag flying enemies out of the air by grappling them and leaping off a ledge.
Or using a gust-jar or similar item to fill up a balloon and hang onto it with a grappling hook, and drive the thing using the gust jar. Sounds awkward but even if it could only be used very selectively in dungeons or something, it would be awesome.
I guess I'd just like to see some creative uses out of all of the awesome items we've gotten over the years.
So the unthinkable happened to me last night - I got completely and legitimately stuck in a Zelda dungeon.
Second dungeon of Oracle of Ages, I could not leave this red area:
I pushed that block at the bottom aside and went up to the next screen, and couldn't progress because I didn't have a key. When I returned to the lower screen, the block was back in place and I couldn't push it. None of those other blocks are pushable from the inside either. I didn't do anything remarkable at all, and it's not a very complicated dungeon...I had just decided not to bomb that wall at the bottom and went up first. You have to bomb that wall to get a key.
I was able to save and restart at the beginning of the dungeon, I was just really shocked at how easy that was. It's never been that simple to trap yourself in other games.
I'm thinking more like, wearing iron boots + hookshot or grappling hook more or less makes you an anchor and can be used to pull things toward you, or drag flying enemies out of the air by grappling them and leaping off a ledge.
I don't really understand this. Is it part of an article that explains it?
I don't see why you can't run into the same problem on both the left diagram and right diagram.
Also I don't see anything about not being able to backtrack, which was my primary problem.
EDIT: I found the article and it doesn't help much. Is "small key 1" an actual key, or the place where you use a key? Same question for "key" surrounded by a dashed line.
Small key 1 would be the room where you acquire the key, and the dotted line box would be a room you need to use a key to enter
In the case you ran into, by choosing not to immediately get the key, you ended up trapped because the designers did not take that into consideration when designing the dungeon layout
basically, unless the player already possess's a key, a key should always be available to them in the dungeon. Every locked door should also open access to another key.
Just did the fire temple, noticed the music seemed different than I remembered. Discovered the whole controversy thing and how some things got changed. I guess the mirror shield won't have a moon on it anymore either.
Just beat Ocarina and I've been missing Wind Waker so I just popped it in for the first time in years.
Got it all up and I find my save files from 8 and 9 years ago, one of which is my fiancee's from when we were teenagers. I want to start a new game but I also hate to delete a file.
Really does not feel like that much time has passed, I feel all old now.
I just beat the water temple. I kind of thought it wasn't really that hard? It was basically a bunch of unconnected rooms around the main room where you can change the water levels. The first few keys which you acquire by working your way up from bottom to top seemed pretty straightforward to me. After that you only had to change the water levels a couple of times, really.
I can definately understand how it would be more frustrating without the iron boots quickswitch and the colored lines guiding you to the water level switches. It's my favorite dungeon overall so far.
I just beat the water temple. I kind of thought it wasn't really that hard? It was basically a bunch of unconnected rooms around the main room where you can change the water levels. The first few keys which you acquire by working your way up from bottom to top seemed pretty straightforward to me. After that you only had to change the water levels a couple of times, really.
I can definately understand how it would be more frustrating without the iron boots quickswitch and the colored lines guiding you to the water level switches. It's my favorite dungeon overall so far.
The problem is if you would mistakenly move on to another floor before you got both keys from what ever level you're on, then you'd have to move the water level up (and get lost finding how) to use it, and then you'd get in that room and realize you need another key, so you have to get the water level back down, find the key, move the water up again, etc.
Getting lost in that process can be frustrating and make you forget what you were doing in the first place.
It would be great if there were many more combinations of items you could use. Not necessarily on the level of bomb-arrows (though these are very cool and a great idea!), which is literally using two items at once.
I'm thinking more like, wearing iron boots + hookshot or grappling hook more or less makes you an anchor and can be used to pull things toward you, or drag flying enemies out of the air by grappling them and leaping off a ledge.
Or using a gust-jar or similar item to fill up a balloon and hang onto it with a grappling hook, and drive the thing using the gust jar. Sounds awkward but even if it could only be used very selectively in dungeons or something, it would be awesome.
I guess I'd just like to see some creative uses out of all of the awesome items we've gotten over the years.
Random question, but did you ever play Wind Waker?
Has Nintendo addressed the Skyward Sword issue where Link just sort of holds his sword out all weird and arkward while walking around because that's the angle the player is holding the Wiimote? Is there like, a button that desyncs the two? Are E3 videos just showing really bad players, or is that really how it's supposed to be?
I am looking forward to having full control over how Link holds his sword because it's going to be friggin' rad to hold it above your head when you're charging towards a darknut.
I am also probably going to yell while doing this.
Just beat Ocarina and I've been missing Wind Waker so I just popped it in for the first time in years.
Got it all up and I find my save files from 8 and 9 years ago, one of which is my fiancee's from when we were teenagers. I want to start a new game but I also hate to delete a file.
Really does not feel like that much time has passed, I feel all old now.
My roommate and I decided to bust out the NES and play through Zelda 2 a couple months back. One of the saved games was titled with my name, and the other was titled "Daddy"... it almost brought a tear to my eye. That saved game is from 1989. I was 6 years old! (28 now). I was blown away that it was still saved on that damned cartridge after all these years.
I took a picture of the screen and framed it for my Dad for Father's Day. He liked it.
I'm not against the idea of a SciFi Zelda. Hell, it could work.
But I am strongly against the idea of taking the magic of Hyrule and making it nothing more than leftover technology.
It turns out the Triforce is nanotechnology that embeds itself into the back of the hand because the density of nerves make for a good connection to the Central Nervous System while not compromising it! Sensors in the laboratories ("temples") detect that specific signature and grand access! And Dekus were actually genetically engineered to be a food crop incorporating Goron DNA, but when they achieved sentience it was decided that they were to be left alone to develop from that point on!
Ridiculous? You betcha. But I think we've gotten away from the original point that was being made. It's not the idea of a SciFi Zelda that bothers me. It's a bastardization of the current world by retconning the whole thing and making it "not magic."
I wouldn't mind just one character who talked like this (like the sword lady) and who confuses the hell out of everyone else in the game.
I also don't think there's this clear demarcation between fantasy and sci-fi. All the Final Fantasy games have some sci-fi stuff (some more than others). Classic fantasy stories like Conan the Barbarian and Jack Vance are all post-SF-apocalyptic worlds. I also think ideas from SF can really enrich fantasy stories, like His Dark Materials.
Plus I really, really, really want a space station dungeon with freefall gameplay.
(It's actually amazing that we haven't ever gotten a full-blown SF game that takes place in freefall.)
Just beat Ocarina and I've been missing Wind Waker so I just popped it in for the first time in years.
Got it all up and I find my save files from 8 and 9 years ago, one of which is my fiancee's from when we were teenagers. I want to start a new game but I also hate to delete a file.
Really does not feel like that much time has passed, I feel all old now.
My roommate and I decided to bust out the NES and play through Zelda 2 a couple months back. One of the saved games was titled with my name, and the other was titled "Daddy"... it almost brought a tear to my eye. That saved game is from 1989. I was 6 years old! (28 now). I was blown away that it was still saved on that damned cartridge after all these years.
I took a picture of the screen and framed it for my Dad for Father's Day. He liked it.
Hahaha. The only thing I could think of was beating the game and Zelda saying "Thank you for saving me daddy!" Oh yeah, we know how Zelda is. :winky:
Yes, I'm aware that's not what Zelda actually says at the end of the game.
It would be great if there were many more combinations of items you could use. Not necessarily on the level of bomb-arrows (though these are very cool and a great idea!), which is literally using two items at once.
I'm thinking more like, wearing iron boots + hookshot or grappling hook more or less makes you an anchor and can be used to pull things toward you, or drag flying enemies out of the air by grappling them and leaping off a ledge.
Or using a gust-jar or similar item to fill up a balloon and hang onto it with a grappling hook, and drive the thing using the gust jar. Sounds awkward but even if it could only be used very selectively in dungeons or something, it would be awesome.
I guess I'd just like to see some creative uses out of all of the awesome items we've gotten over the years.
Random question, but did you ever play Wind Waker?
Actually, I had but up until yesterday it had been around 6 years since I'd played it last, and another 3 or 4 before that. And yeah, the general idea is there already, I just want more of it. Just because it's in one game doesn't preclude it from being used again, or finding more uses for said mechanic.:P
Finished the first dungeon in Minish Cap. The Gust Jar is cool! Feels like a cross between Luigi's Mansion and Ghostbusters.
Good for you, sir. Minish is probably my favorite handheld Zelda.
It's one of the few Zelda titles I haven't played and I hate myself for it. It was stuck in that GBA to DS transition and I just never got around to picking it up.
I might grab it one of these days, but I'm so wary about buying GBA titles online.
It would be great if there were many more combinations of items you could use. Not necessarily on the level of bomb-arrows (though these are very cool and a great idea!), which is literally using two items at once.
I'm thinking more like, wearing iron boots + hookshot or grappling hook more or less makes you an anchor and can be used to pull things toward you, or drag flying enemies out of the air by grappling them and leaping off a ledge.
Or using a gust-jar or similar item to fill up a balloon and hang onto it with a grappling hook, and drive the thing using the gust jar. Sounds awkward but even if it could only be used very selectively in dungeons or something, it would be awesome.
I guess I'd just like to see some creative uses out of all of the awesome items we've gotten over the years.
Random question, but did you ever play Wind Waker?
Actually, I had but up until yesterday it had been around 6 years since I'd played it last, and another 3 or 4 before that. And yeah, the general idea is there already, I just want more of it. Just because it's in one game doesn't preclude it from being used again, or finding more uses for said mechanic.:P
Agreed completely, your post just made me think of Wind Waker where your exact idea was used. And it was a great little puzzle, even if the solution was telegraphed to the point of being insulting. We don't see items being combined or used simultaneously very often, and that was a nice bit of lateral thinking about what you could accomplish if you did mix it up a bit more. I'd love to see a similar approach in future games.
Chris FOM on
0
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
Ok, now is the ultimate test for me. I've never played OoT past the water temple.
Posts
The trouble with giving these up is that they are solutions to very common problems - breaking holes in walls, hitting far away objects / bringing items back to you, and pulling yourself to hard-to-reach areas.
As a result they'd probably just fix those old problems with almost identical items or just design around them.
For example, if you're going to limit yourself that you can't use bombs to blow up rocks and make holes in walls, it'd be very easy to just say "ok, no more cracked walls, now they're all doors that require common keys."
Or if you can't use a hookshot to get yourself to a hard-to-reach spot, then instead you just have a "grappling hook" sort of like Wind Waker (though I know later it had a hookshot). Or alternatively, you just make it so that a hookshot isn't required and every area is reachable on foot.
It'd be extremely forced not to have them in. I don't know how you could do it without a) designing the game so those items aren't needed or b) giving you the same item with a different name.
-Z
I'm thinking more like, wearing iron boots + hookshot or grappling hook more or less makes you an anchor and can be used to pull things toward you, or drag flying enemies out of the air by grappling them and leaping off a ledge.
Or using a gust-jar or similar item to fill up a balloon and hang onto it with a grappling hook, and drive the thing using the gust jar. Sounds awkward but even if it could only be used very selectively in dungeons or something, it would be awesome.
I guess I'd just like to see some creative uses out of all of the awesome items we've gotten over the years.
Second dungeon of Oracle of Ages, I could not leave this red area:
I pushed that block at the bottom aside and went up to the next screen, and couldn't progress because I didn't have a key. When I returned to the lower screen, the block was back in place and I couldn't push it. None of those other blocks are pushable from the inside either. I didn't do anything remarkable at all, and it's not a very complicated dungeon...I had just decided not to bomb that wall at the bottom and went up first. You have to bomb that wall to get a key.
I was able to save and restart at the beginning of the dungeon, I was just really shocked at how easy that was. It's never been that simple to trap yourself in other games.
This. You've got the right of it.
Looks like you ran into the left side, Sporky
I don't really understand this. Is it part of an article that explains it?
I don't see why you can't run into the same problem on both the left diagram and right diagram.
Also I don't see anything about not being able to backtrack, which was my primary problem.
EDIT: I found the article and it doesn't help much. Is "small key 1" an actual key, or the place where you use a key? Same question for "key" surrounded by a dashed line.
Small key 1 would be the room where you acquire the key, and the dotted line box would be a room you need to use a key to enter
In the case you ran into, by choosing not to immediately get the key, you ended up trapped because the designers did not take that into consideration when designing the dungeon layout
basically, unless the player already possess's a key, a key should always be available to them in the dungeon. Every locked door should also open access to another key.
It also has bad music.
It reminds me of Bittersweet Symphony.
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The forest temple had arguably the best temple music in the game. It was a combination of creepy and calming at the same time.
I love that temple to death.
Tingle is the best Zelda character.
Would he have gotten his own game if he wasn't?
Just a pity only one of them made it outside Japan.
:?
Got it all up and I find my save files from 8 and 9 years ago, one of which is my fiancee's from when we were teenagers. I want to start a new game but I also hate to delete a file.
Really does not feel like that much time has passed, I feel all old now.
(I appreciate all feedback, so take a few minutes to check it out)
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I can definately understand how it would be more frustrating without the iron boots quickswitch and the colored lines guiding you to the water level switches. It's my favorite dungeon overall so far.
The problem is if you would mistakenly move on to another floor before you got both keys from what ever level you're on, then you'd have to move the water level up (and get lost finding how) to use it, and then you'd get in that room and realize you need another key, so you have to get the water level back down, find the key, move the water up again, etc.
Getting lost in that process can be frustrating and make you forget what you were doing in the first place.
complete that and explore around
Random question, but did you ever play Wind Waker?
I am also probably going to yell while doing this.
My roommate and I decided to bust out the NES and play through Zelda 2 a couple months back. One of the saved games was titled with my name, and the other was titled "Daddy"... it almost brought a tear to my eye. That saved game is from 1989. I was 6 years old! (28 now). I was blown away that it was still saved on that damned cartridge after all these years.
I took a picture of the screen and framed it for my Dad for Father's Day. He liked it.
I also don't think there's this clear demarcation between fantasy and sci-fi. All the Final Fantasy games have some sci-fi stuff (some more than others). Classic fantasy stories like Conan the Barbarian and Jack Vance are all post-SF-apocalyptic worlds. I also think ideas from SF can really enrich fantasy stories, like His Dark Materials.
Plus I really, really, really want a space station dungeon with freefall gameplay.
(It's actually amazing that we haven't ever gotten a full-blown SF game that takes place in freefall.)
Hahaha. The only thing I could think of was beating the game and Zelda saying "Thank you for saving me daddy!" Oh yeah, we know how Zelda is. :winky:
CURSE YOU ZELDA!
CURSE YOU Daddy!
Actually, I had but up until yesterday it had been around 6 years since I'd played it last, and another 3 or 4 before that. And yeah, the general idea is there already, I just want more of it. Just because it's in one game doesn't preclude it from being used again, or finding more uses for said mechanic.:P
It's one of the few Zelda titles I haven't played and I hate myself for it. It was stuck in that GBA to DS transition and I just never got around to picking it up.
I might grab it one of these days, but I'm so wary about buying GBA titles online.
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Agreed completely, your post just made me think of Wind Waker where your exact idea was used. And it was a great little puzzle, even if the solution was telegraphed to the point of being insulting. We don't see items being combined or used simultaneously very often, and that was a nice bit of lateral thinking about what you could accomplish if you did mix it up a bit more. I'd love to see a similar approach in future games.
I'm now at the water temple.
Hyrule help me.
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It's like a video game right of passage. When you finish it, they send you a Water Temple patch to put on your jacket.
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