Starcraft 2: Dustin "Trollface" Browder (also, sign up for CSL!)

PoolCue

damnit

I really hope ret makes it through

kedinik

I think that last game highlights why nydus + infestor might be necessary against terrans on big maps.

e: Very smart of this terran to pull back somewhat instead of forcing the issue. But looking good for Ret!

His Corkiness

I missed the end of the first game but it seemed like Ret was let down by his Infestor control. Missed a few key Fungals there.

kedinik

Ret's playing quite well, but that's a scary number of tanks.

e: Welp.

Walrus von Zeppelin

what

how

it was 200 supply to 130 before

Praetor

Such a ridiculously bad time for the stream to shit out on me, how the hell did Ret screw that up?

kedinik

I think he simultaneously lost all his infestors, all his mutas and most of his lings to a few misclicks.

Euphemon

Not enough banelings, broodlords were too slow, and he lost his mutas without doing enough damage. I think he was fucked either way, but those were all mistakes. At the same time, rofl, 2base terran, sigh........

fadingathedges

Ret looked strong in both games for a bit there ;/


I blame terran.

Walrus von Zeppelin

All the foreigners who didn't earn their slots were destroyed except for Huk.

I hope next time they make everyone qualify.

Dhalphir

that face artosis just made while saying he rolls like a baneling will be another gif in seconds

PoolCue

it was 3 base terran

and welp, bye again ret

Euphemon

I don't think either game really showcased terran imba or whatever because ret mishandled the situation, especially in the second game. But no other race would have won in that situation. Down 2-3 bases and 50 food then rolling over the other army.

peacekeeper

where was the battle

i think that big muta ball running into 8 marines that mma didnt even a move just stimmed them and ignored what happened, and the mutas had to run away sums up the dumbness of marines

nerf marines, buff tanks!

Seguer

Oh crap that was an early probe being sent out guys!

Seguer

Hahahaha the observer is following the probe with his mouse

Euphemon

peacekeeper wrote: »

where was the battle

i think that big muta ball running into 8 marines that mma didnt even a move just stimmed them and ignored what happened, and the mutas had to run away sums up the dumbness of marines

nerf marines, buff tanks!

Tanks are insanely good against Z already. With +1, they oneshot banelings and 2shot lings regardless of zerg upgrades. If tanks are buffed even more, then they wouldn't even need +1 to do the same thing. The hard part about ZvT is mostly the tank. Sure, marines are ridiculously, ungodly cost-efficient when upgraded with medivacs, but at least they're bane-able on creep. Tanks essentially negate all sling/bling with any sort of buffer. Ret actually had quite a few banelings in his army beforehand, they just instantly popped because MMA/Jjob had so many tanks. Granted, ret made some questionable decisions and had some mismicros especially with his mutas, but that game just makes me sad. That siege tank ball is so ridiculously hard to engage.

fadingathedges

Dhalphir wrote: »

that face artosis just made while saying he rolls like a baneling will be another gif in seconds

As soon as I saw that I was like "I hope gif"

Seguer

Mass mutas is so disgusting.

PoolCue

its one of the sexiest things in this game

kedinik

Super late 2nd gas, no sentries, chronoboosting cybercore...

Yeah sure drone up!

Euphemon

Another zerg out

Ah well, SangHo is awesome so it doesn't feel so bad.

PoolCue

did he lose ANY stalkers?!

christ

that was also sexy

peacekeeper

nice control by the toss

yes tanks 1 shot lings banelings? dunno there, but weakening marines also makes mutas stronger in the match up, tanks cant shoot up!

Seguer

dat h5

kedinik

It's a bit annoying that tanks 1-shot big clusters of banelings regardless of upgrades.

Starts to get pretty difficult to use banelings at all when stimmed marines take cover behind a congo line of 10+ tanks.

Seguer

Split your banelings so they don't all get splashed?

I try and split my zealots vs tanks, even when they have charge.

EDIT: Same premise as Collosi vs Collosi - whoever bunches the most loses. I usually win PvP just from superior positioning of my collosi.

PoolCue

but but but but... that means I have to play faster and better and not set everything into one control group

I wonder if as skill increases, people will start to venture past only using a max of 3 hotkeys to control their army

wakkawa

Mix your banelings and zerglings into one huge group. Trust me, it doesn't matter how many tanks the terran has you are going to bust that shit.

Seguer

They're complaining that sending units in a huge ball do poorly against units who do AOE damage.

Same issue as "my bio loses to a spell engineered specifically to kill them"..

kedinik

Marines autoattack spread banes to death faster than the (spread out, unclumped) back ranks can reach them; tanks kill banes if they necessarily clump to chase the marines.

You pretty much just need to inefficiently trade armies and try to outmacro their stronger composition.

Pretty silly comparing banes to zealots. Zealots don't need to clump to fulfill their role and they damn near hard counter tanks.

e: And are you seriously sneering at zerg players for using LOTS OF WEAK MANS to fight tanks? As opposed to the other zerg option of using fewer of their by-design weak units?

peacekeeper

also the big problem from the start was the ai, tanks shot whatever in bw, 50 tanks 1 zergling all 50 shot it but they dont do it in sc2, when asked why trollface browder said they cant program it to do it? obviously technology has receded since the previous millenium when sc was made?

Dhalphir

peacekeeper wrote: »

also the big problem from the start was the ai, tanks shot whatever in bw, 50 tanks 1 zergling all 50 shot it but they dont do it in sc2, when asked why trollface browder said they cant program it to do it? obviously technology has receded since the previous millenium when sc was made?

they can do it because the SC:BW custom map made tanks overkill

MMMig

You don't want to set banes in the same control group as lings. They both target completely different types of units.

Dhalphir

I just don't try to go lingblingmuta vs tank/marine

I don't have the micro to pull it off. I prefer mass burrowed roaches and good creep spread to allow flanks. Its rare that they'll get a raven early before there's a demonstrated need to, so whenever you take a tank shot you can burrow your roaches, move a few steps, then unburrow in anticipation of them scanning anyway, which allows you to regen a lot of the damage the tanks just did.

His Corkiness

Do people do Ultra/Ling/Baneling? An Ultralisk can absorb 9 Tank shots even at full upgrades, and costs the same amount of gas as only 8 Banelings. I'd theorycraft that if you have an Ultralisk or two at the front of your swarm, you're going to have more Lings + Banelings alive by the time you reach the Tanks than if you'd just spent that money on more Ling/Baneling.

Dhalphir

Lings outrun ultras so its got the same issue of army control and its rare that your lings won't absorb at least quite a few tank shots.

I've seen Ultra/Baneling done well though. The banelings chase the marines while the ultras can just be a-moved into the tanks.

MMMig

Ultras are nice but they're expensive as hell and almost as tough to tech as bro-lords.
They're a little on the slow side which means you have to control them well so your faster units don't run ahead of them.

The bigger maps will allow more ultra play though.

Yann

Infestor+Ling/Bling looks so awesome when players like TLO do it, but then you realize these Korean terrans are freaking great at controlling a marine+tank comp.

All it really takes is 2-3 seconds of the zerg player not paying attention and all those units are gone...

kedinik

Yeah, ultras can really help against siege tanks but they take a long time to hit the field.