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So, [Arizona] is going crazy again
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It's actually a thing that occurs, there are a lot of terrible people in Arizona. I heard a story about a mayor of a small town, some people put a rope across this river because people were drowning going across it, and the mayor went and cut it because he thought that foreign invaders deserved to die.
You must understand the depths of your opponent's psyche before you can fight him
Rigorous Scholarship
Most of the one sided violence and sexual assault is from Mexican coyotes. The second largest group is American coyotes.
No I know it happens, but it caught me off guard in the way of being a joke.
The sad part is that you're both right. Not to mention the drug cartels and the "minuteman" race warriors.
A bigger joke is that Arizona is okay with this
/rorschach
I'm shocked, and feel this has never happened in our country before.
Rigorous Scholarship
Well yes.
The "citizen militias" just as often turn their violence towards other Americans.
He wasn't really shot, more crucified. And he wasn't an illegal.
My point was that they ARE doing the jobs Americans don't want to do. Fixing that is going to be complex, but until we fix things, they will be treated extremely shittily. 3rd class people (not even citizens) at best. And that is wrong and needs to change.
No, they are doing the jobs Americans aren't willing to do under those conditions.
Sweat-shop employees are also doing jobs "Americans aren't willing to do".
He would be under the new law, friggin' cosmic anchor babies.
Yeah, we really need to stop trotting this trope out.
We had maids and landscapers and construction workers before the wave of illegal labor hit..
Honestly, seeing as how America seems destined to become an economy based on financial tools, technology, and services instead of manufacturing and fabrication, you'd think the left-leaning labor interests would be fighting tooth and nail against illegal immigration, seeing as how in about another 20 years unskilled/lower-skilled Americans won't have any employment opportunities at all.
Illegals aren't doing jobs that Americans won't do. They are, however, destroying the leverage in wage bargaining for low-skilled Americans.
The non-labor left is mostly concerned with this as a human-rights/public policy issue. Creating a large disenfranchised group of second-class residents isn't a good move for the country in the long-term. Since we can no more prevent them from coming here for the sweet sweet jobs than King Canute could stop the tides, we should figure out an alternative solution. The compromise solution of creating a guest worker program seems the best, but obviously there are powerful vested interests against such a policy.
During the Great Depression we had mass deportations, WWII, we needed labor so we wanted people, and so on back and forth. This has actually been an issue for quite a long time.
Would you like to back up this up with some statistics showing the % of crime human smugglers cause in AZ?
No, but neither is an endless drag on our entitlements infrastructure and devaluation of American labor.
Whatever human rights issues are at stake, concerns regarding American citizens have higher priority than non-citizens.
Much like debates over abortion or any other moral quandary, any position is tenable if it doesn't have to be supported by any kind of economic contingency. Like outlawing abortions without building new orphanages.
Ideally both conditions could be avoided. One condition is not inherent given the absence of the other.
And to answer your question, I guess that would depend on the severity of either condition.
Do you think these measures taken by Arizona are an acceptable solution to the claims of excess burden on the welfare system and will not lead to a permanent underclass or that the creation of said underclass is an acceptable cost?
The situation isn't analogous to somewhere like France where the non-citizen native children of immigrants are separated from their homeland by extraneous straits.
Mexico is, like, right there.
Yeah so are the gangs, warfare, and poverty.
Plus you know, kids and stuff.
But anyway, you skipped the first question. Are these measures meeting some need you see?
I'm not sure if I'm informed enough to make a decision either way, honestly. I'd like to see what Arizona's annual entitlement expenditures on illegals are, compared between total revenues and entitlements for citizens.
There's a lot of data needed to form an educated opinion that I'm not privy to.
Debbie Riddle of Texas is proposing a law that makes it a serious crime to hire an illegal alien, unless they're doing your house or yard work.
Let me first say, I'm opposed to this.
Now, let me be pragmatic. While there certainly are many illegals throughout the US performing jobs for single-family residences, cracking down on that is going to be borderline impossible. The brunt of the efforts to control illegal hiring practices should rightly be aimed at companies knowing subverting the visa program infrastructure to bust unions and increase profits.
Do you think the GOP is doing this to protect unions?
Not in a million years. But I'm not opposed to such by-products of the action, and it is one of the things I wish the Left would take up. Humanistic rhetoric without pragmatism or contingency planning is basically the political equivalent of "pounding the table," to borrow a legal metaphor.
First thing I found on google is http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/7/5/8/8/p175887_index.html is this, but there's more
Not enough, since not many have looked at the issue. They had a speaker on NPR who was part of Mexico's border control talking about how women and children would be found beaten in the desert raped and all their money gone (in extreme cases)
The crime isn't really an issue for Arizona, it's just you shouldn't really need a whole lot of citations to realize that human traffickers tend to be monsters to the humans that they traffic. The people of Arizona really could care less, since they're illegals and not humans dontchaknow
Punishing people who hire illegals immigrants is one thing. and while I may not agree with it its an honest position.
Only punishing those who dare to allow Mexicans above their allotted position in society is sort of fucked up.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Free Market applies to commodities too.
Unfortunately, the Minimum Wage Act prevents American laborers from meeting the new market-driven wage levels. Not that I'd suggest repealing it.
Illegals compete for jobs with Americans who are already at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. And that puts the American workers at a disadvantage because they're hesitant to agree to working conditions and pay that moves their standard of living in the direction of poor Mexicans'.
Rigorous Scholarship
That's not it, What it SHOULD be for is: if it were a house cleaning company that hired employees, who turn out to be illegal,to go and clean a customers house then that company still gets hammered. What they are making an exception for is if I as a private citizen directly hire this nice Mexican lady to clean our house once every other week, and I ask her are you legal? she says yes and shows me a social security card (turns out later to be bought/borrowed or stolen) and then later when she pisses off one of her other customers and they call her in for being illegal I don't get in trouble for hiring her because I wasn't hiring her as an employee in a business but to clean my personal residence.
This whole exception is retarded because the bit about knowingly hiring an illegal and what not should cover me in this situation.
"United States of America When We Feel Like It"
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
It's a lot easier and productive to go after the meat-packing plant or landscaping service that hires dozens or hundreds of illegals.
And the whole comment about punishing people for hiring Mexicans outside of their alloted position in life is silly. Illegals pretty much unformly work in low-skill service jobs, regardless of the size of the employer.
Rigorous Scholarship
Welcome to scenic Arizona! The temperature is currently 103 degrees and the year is still currently 1828!