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So, [Arizona] is going crazy again

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Posts

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:

    It's actually a thing that occurs, there are a lot of terrible people in Arizona. I heard a story about a mayor of a small town, some people put a rope across this river because people were drowning going across it, and the mayor went and cut it because he thought that foreign invaders deserved to die.

    You must understand the depths of your opponent's psyche before you can fight him

    override367 on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:
    The coyotes who smuggle people across the border commonly rob, rape and murder illegals. Abandoning them if things get tough is pretty much par for the course, too.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yes, it would be negligent of me to fail to point out that Arizonans are responsible for only a small fraction of the incidents of "treating illegals worse than dogs".

    Most of the one sided violence and sexual assault is from Mexican coyotes. The second largest group is American coyotes.

    override367 on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:

    It's actually a thing that occurs, there are a lot of terrible people in Arizona. I heard a story about a mayor of a small town, some people put a rope across this river because people were drowning going across it, and the mayor went and cut it because he thought that foreign invaders deserved to die.

    You must understand the depths of your opponent's psyche before you can fight him

    No I know it happens, but it caught me off guard in the way of being a joke.

    Henroid on
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:

    It's actually a thing that occurs, there are a lot of terrible people in Arizona. I heard a story about a mayor of a small town, some people put a rope across this river because people were drowning going across it, and the mayor went and cut it because he thought that foreign invaders deserved to die.

    You must understand the depths of your opponent's psyche before you can fight him
    Modern Man wrote: »
    The coyotes who smuggle people across the border commonly rob, rape and murder illegals. Abandoning them if things get tough is pretty much par for the course, too.

    The sad part is that you're both right. Not to mention the drug cartels and the "minuteman" race warriors.

    Elldren on
    fuck gendered marketing
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It wasn't really a joke, talking about shooting them in the streets when this is a thing that actually happens on a daily basis is a joke.

    A bigger joke is that Arizona is okay with this

    /rorschach

    override367 on
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It's like there's a ton of demand for something, very little supply, and a criminal industry springing up around it to fill the demand.

    I'm shocked, and feel this has never happened in our country before.

    kildy on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Elldren wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:

    It's actually a thing that occurs, there are a lot of terrible people in Arizona. I heard a story about a mayor of a small town, some people put a rope across this river because people were drowning going across it, and the mayor went and cut it because he thought that foreign invaders deserved to die.

    You must understand the depths of your opponent's psyche before you can fight him
    Modern Man wrote: »
    The coyotes who smuggle people across the border commonly rob, rape and murder illegals. Abandoning them if things get tough is pretty much par for the course, too.

    The sad part is that you're both right. Not to mention the drug cartels and the "minuteman" race warriors.
    Citizen border militias and random Arizonans make up a near-negligible percentage of the violence directed towards border-crossing illegals. The vast majority is perpetrated by human smugglers/organized criminals and other illegals.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:

    It's actually a thing that occurs, there are a lot of terrible people in Arizona. I heard a story about a mayor of a small town, some people put a rope across this river because people were drowning going across it, and the mayor went and cut it because he thought that foreign invaders deserved to die.

    You must understand the depths of your opponent's psyche before you can fight him
    Modern Man wrote: »
    The coyotes who smuggle people across the border commonly rob, rape and murder illegals. Abandoning them if things get tough is pretty much par for the course, too.

    The sad part is that you're both right. Not to mention the drug cartels and the "minuteman" race warriors.
    Citizen border militias and random Arizonans make up a near-negligible percentage of the violence directed towards border-crossing illegals. The vast majority is perpetrated by human smugglers/organized criminals and other illegals.

    Well yes.

    The "citizen militias" just as often turn their violence towards other Americans.

    Elldren on
    fuck gendered marketing
  • MortalToasterMortalToaster Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:

    He wasn't really shot, more crucified. And he wasn't an illegal.

    MortalToaster on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Elldren wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »

    The old cliche about "doing jobs Americans won't do is nonsense." It's more like "doing jobs in illegal conditions that Americans wouldn't stand for."

    That's effectively the same thing. As we're never going to make those jobs have good conditions.

    So your intent is then to formalize sub-minimum wage jobs with illegal working conditions?

    I think his point in there is no pleasant quick solution.

    Well no there isn't, but that's also not what he said.

    My point was that they ARE doing the jobs Americans don't want to do. Fixing that is going to be complex, but until we fix things, they will be treated extremely shittily. 3rd class people (not even citizens) at best. And that is wrong and needs to change.

    Fencingsax on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »

    The old cliche about "doing jobs Americans won't do is nonsense." It's more like "doing jobs in illegal conditions that Americans wouldn't stand for."

    That's effectively the same thing. As we're never going to make those jobs have good conditions.

    So your intent is then to formalize sub-minimum wage jobs with illegal working conditions?

    I think his point in there is no pleasant quick solution.

    Well no there isn't, but that's also not what he said.

    My point was that they ARE doing the jobs Americans don't want to do. Fixing that is going to be complex, but until we fix things, they will be treated extremely shittily. 3rd class people (not even citizens) at best. And that is wrong and needs to change.

    No, they are doing the jobs Americans aren't willing to do under those conditions.

    Sweat-shop employees are also doing jobs "Americans aren't willing to do".

    shryke on
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:

    He wasn't really shot, more crucified. And he wasn't an illegal.

    He would be under the new law, friggin' cosmic anchor babies.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »

    The old cliche about "doing jobs Americans won't do is nonsense." It's more like "doing jobs in illegal conditions that Americans wouldn't stand for."

    That's effectively the same thing. As we're never going to make those jobs have good conditions.

    So your intent is then to formalize sub-minimum wage jobs with illegal working conditions?

    I think his point in there is no pleasant quick solution.

    Well no there isn't, but that's also not what he said.

    My point was that they ARE doing the jobs Americans don't want to do. Fixing that is going to be complex, but until we fix things, they will be treated extremely shittily. 3rd class people (not even citizens) at best. And that is wrong and needs to change.

    No, they are doing the jobs Americans aren't willing to do under those conditions.

    Sweat-shop employees are also doing jobs "Americans aren't willing to do".

    Yeah, we really need to stop trotting this trope out.

    We had maids and landscapers and construction workers before the wave of illegal labor hit..

    Honestly, seeing as how America seems destined to become an economy based on financial tools, technology, and services instead of manufacturing and fabrication, you'd think the left-leaning labor interests would be fighting tooth and nail against illegal immigration, seeing as how in about another 20 years unskilled/lower-skilled Americans won't have any employment opportunities at all.

    Illegals aren't doing jobs that Americans won't do. They are, however, destroying the leverage in wage bargaining for low-skilled Americans.

    Atomika on
  • dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    well, what's the fastest growing union in the US? Answer: Last I checked, it was the SEIU, which started out by unionizing those custodial/service type jobs that are popular with illegal immigrants. So although Labor has historically been anti-immigration, the rise of the SEIU has weakened that trend somewhat (and as Wisconsin shows, there are more immediate threats to the survival of unions).

    The non-labor left is mostly concerned with this as a human-rights/public policy issue. Creating a large disenfranchised group of second-class residents isn't a good move for the country in the long-term. Since we can no more prevent them from coming here for the sweet sweet jobs than King Canute could stop the tides, we should figure out an alternative solution. The compromise solution of creating a guest worker program seems the best, but obviously there are powerful vested interests against such a policy.

    dojango on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »

    The old cliche about "doing jobs Americans won't do is nonsense." It's more like "doing jobs in illegal conditions that Americans wouldn't stand for."

    That's effectively the same thing. As we're never going to make those jobs have good conditions.

    So your intent is then to formalize sub-minimum wage jobs with illegal working conditions?

    I think his point in there is no pleasant quick solution.

    Well no there isn't, but that's also not what he said.

    My point was that they ARE doing the jobs Americans don't want to do. Fixing that is going to be complex, but until we fix things, they will be treated extremely shittily. 3rd class people (not even citizens) at best. And that is wrong and needs to change.

    No, they are doing the jobs Americans aren't willing to do under those conditions.

    Sweat-shop employees are also doing jobs "Americans aren't willing to do".

    Yeah, we really need to stop trotting this trope out.

    We had maids and landscapers and construction workers before the wave of illegal labor hit..
    That's because we had stuff like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_Program

    During the Great Depression we had mass deportations, WWII, we needed labor so we wanted people, and so on back and forth. This has actually been an issue for quite a long time.

    Fencingsax on
  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:
    The coyotes who smuggle people across the border commonly rob, rape and murder illegals. Abandoning them if things get tough is pretty much par for the course, too.

    Would you like to back up this up with some statistics showing the % of crime human smugglers cause in AZ?

    TNTrooper on
    steam_sig.png
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    dojango wrote: »
    The non-labor left is mostly concerned with this as a human-rights/public policy issue. Creating a large disenfranchised group of second-class residents isn't a good move for the country in the long-term.

    No, but neither is an endless drag on our entitlements infrastructure and devaluation of American labor.

    Whatever human rights issues are at stake, concerns regarding American citizens have higher priority than non-citizens.


    Much like debates over abortion or any other moral quandary, any position is tenable if it doesn't have to be supported by any kind of economic contingency. Like outlawing abortions without building new orphanages.

    Atomika on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Are you saying the drag on our welfare structure is a bigger problem then the creation of a permanent underclass Ross?

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Are you saying the drag on our welfare structure is a bigger problem then the creation of a permanent underclass Ross?

    Ideally both conditions could be avoided. One condition is not inherent given the absence of the other.

    And to answer your question, I guess that would depend on the severity of either condition.

    Atomika on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Are you saying the drag on our welfare structure is a bigger problem then the creation of a permanent underclass Ross?

    Ideally both conditions could be avoided. One condition is not inherent given the absence of the other.

    And to answer your question, I guess that would depend on the severity of either condition.

    Do you think these measures taken by Arizona are an acceptable solution to the claims of excess burden on the welfare system and will not lead to a permanent underclass or that the creation of said underclass is an acceptable cost?

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Are you saying the drag on our welfare structure is a bigger problem then the creation of a permanent underclass Ross?

    Ideally both conditions could be avoided. One condition is not inherent given the absence of the other.

    And to answer your question, I guess that would depend on the severity of either condition.

    Do you think these measures taken by Arizona are an acceptable solution to the claims of excess burden on the welfare system and will not lead to a permanent underclass or that the creation of said underclass is an acceptable cost?
    I guess that would depend on the severity of either condition.

    The situation isn't analogous to somewhere like France where the non-citizen native children of immigrants are separated from their homeland by extraneous straits.

    Mexico is, like, right there.

    Atomika on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Are you saying the drag on our welfare structure is a bigger problem then the creation of a permanent underclass Ross?

    Ideally both conditions could be avoided. One condition is not inherent given the absence of the other.

    And to answer your question, I guess that would depend on the severity of either condition.

    Do you think these measures taken by Arizona are an acceptable solution to the claims of excess burden on the welfare system and will not lead to a permanent underclass or that the creation of said underclass is an acceptable cost?
    I guess that would depend on the severity of either condition.

    The situation isn't analogous to somewhere like France where the non-citizen native children of immigrants are separated from their homeland by extraneous straits.

    Mexico is, like, right there.

    Yeah so are the gangs, warfare, and poverty.

    Plus you know, kids and stuff.

    But anyway, you skipped the first question. Are these measures meeting some need you see?

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    But anyway, you skipped the first question. Are these measures meeting some need you see?

    I'm not sure if I'm informed enough to make a decision either way, honestly. I'd like to see what Arizona's annual entitlement expenditures on illegals are, compared between total revenues and entitlements for citizens.

    There's a lot of data needed to form an educated opinion that I'm not privy to.

    Atomika on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited March 2011

    Let me first say, I'm opposed to this.


    Now, let me be pragmatic. While there certainly are many illegals throughout the US performing jobs for single-family residences, cracking down on that is going to be borderline impossible. The brunt of the efforts to control illegal hiring practices should rightly be aimed at companies knowing subverting the visa program infrastructure to bust unions and increase profits.

    Atomika on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited March 2011

    Let me first say, I'm opposed to this.


    Now, let me be pragmatic. While there certainly are many illegals throughout the US performing jobs for single-family residences, cracking down on that is going to be borderline impossible. The brunt of the efforts to control illegal hiring practices should rightly be aimed at companies knowing subverting the visa program infrastructure to bust unions and increase profits.

    Do you think the GOP is doing this to protect unions?

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Do you think the GOP is doing this to protect unions?

    Not in a million years. But I'm not opposed to such by-products of the action, and it is one of the things I wish the Left would take up. Humanistic rhetoric without pragmatism or contingency planning is basically the political equivalent of "pounding the table," to borrow a legal metaphor.

    Atomika on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    They don't shoot illegals in the street


    They do it in the desert

    Jesus Christ. D:
    The coyotes who smuggle people across the border commonly rob, rape and murder illegals. Abandoning them if things get tough is pretty much par for the course, too.

    Would you like to back up this up with some statistics showing the % of crime human smugglers cause in AZ?

    First thing I found on google is http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/7/5/8/8/p175887_index.html is this, but there's more

    Not enough, since not many have looked at the issue. They had a speaker on NPR who was part of Mexico's border control talking about how women and children would be found beaten in the desert raped and all their money gone (in extreme cases)

    The crime isn't really an issue for Arizona, it's just you shouldn't really need a whole lot of citations to realize that human traffickers tend to be monsters to the humans that they traffic. The people of Arizona really could care less, since they're illegals and not humans dontchaknow

    override367 on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Do you think the GOP is doing this to protect unions?

    Not in a million years. But I'm not opposed to such by-products of the action, and it is one of the things I wish the Left would take up. Humanistic rhetoric without pragmatism or contingency planning is basically the political equivalent of "pounding the table," to borrow a legal metaphor.

    Punishing people who hire illegals immigrants is one thing. and while I may not agree with it its an honest position.

    Only punishing those who dare to allow Mexicans above their allotted position in society is sort of fucked up.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Shouldn't the free market position be "if you can't compete for jobs with someone who doesn't speak english, you don't deserve that job?"

    override367 on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Free market doesn't apply to brown people

    SyphonBlue on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Free market doesn't apply to brown people

    Free Market applies to commodities too.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Shouldn't the free market position be "if you can't compete for jobs with someone who doesn't speak english, you don't deserve that job?"

    Unfortunately, the Minimum Wage Act prevents American laborers from meeting the new market-driven wage levels. Not that I'd suggest repealing it.

    Atomika on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Shouldn't the free market position be "if you can't compete for jobs with someone who doesn't speak english, you don't deserve that job?"
    I love the free market as much as the next guy. But, I'm not comfortable with a situation where legal residents are forced to compete for jobs with illegals who are happy with pay and working conditions that are only slightly better than in Mexico.

    Illegals compete for jobs with Americans who are already at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. And that puts the American workers at a disadvantage because they're hesitant to agree to working conditions and pay that moves their standard of living in the direction of poor Mexicans'.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • rockmonkeyrockmonkey Little RockRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Do you think the GOP is doing this to protect unions?

    Not in a million years. But I'm not opposed to such by-products of the action, and it is one of the things I wish the Left would take up. Humanistic rhetoric without pragmatism or contingency planning is basically the political equivalent of "pounding the table," to borrow a legal metaphor.

    Punishing people who hire illegals immigrants is one thing. and while I may not agree with it its an honest position.

    Only punishing those who dare to allow Mexicans above their allotted position in society is sort of fucked up.

    That's not it, What it SHOULD be for is: if it were a house cleaning company that hired employees, who turn out to be illegal,to go and clean a customers house then that company still gets hammered. What they are making an exception for is if I as a private citizen directly hire this nice Mexican lady to clean our house once every other week, and I ask her are you legal? she says yes and shows me a social security card (turns out later to be bought/borrowed or stolen) and then later when she pisses off one of her other customers and they call her in for being illegal I don't get in trouble for hiring her because I wasn't hiring her as an employee in a business but to clean my personal residence.

    This whole exception is retarded because the bit about knowingly hiring an illegal and what not should cover me in this situation.

    rockmonkey on
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  • BullioBullio Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Arizona Senate Passes Bill To Let State Nullify Federal Laws
    After being shot down earlier this week, the Arizona State Senate revived and successfully passed a bill that would create a mechanism for the state to nullify federal laws.

    As TPM has reported, Senate Bill 1433 would create a 12-person "Joint Legislative Committee on Nullification of Federal Laws," which would "recommend, propose and call for a vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the People to the federal government in the United States Constitution."

    The bill passed the Senate 16-11 after three Republicans switched their vote.

    Iowa passed a similar bill in its House last month, though that bill specified that the state would not be required to follow the individual mandate in the health care reform law. The Arizona bill gives the committee more broad powers to review "all existing federal statutes, mandates and Executive orders for the purpose of determining their constitutionality."

    But State Senate President Russell Pearce (R) -- who introduced the bill, and also sponsored the state's controversial immigration law -- implied that health care reform was at least part of the impetus for the law: "If we don't take back our sovereign ability for the states to control the federal government, I guess we have no right to complain," he said, the Arizona Republic reports. "I guess 'Obamacare' is OK for you."

    Nullification laws go against the language of the Constitution, which is pretty clear on the subject:
    This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
    The Arizona bill will now go to the House for a vote.

    "United States of America When We Feel Like It"

    Bullio on
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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2011
    It would be hilarious if Federal Marshals showed up and arrested the Arizona Senate.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
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  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Do you think the GOP is doing this to protect unions?

    Not in a million years. But I'm not opposed to such by-products of the action, and it is one of the things I wish the Left would take up. Humanistic rhetoric without pragmatism or contingency planning is basically the political equivalent of "pounding the table," to borrow a legal metaphor.

    Punishing people who hire illegals immigrants is one thing. and while I may not agree with it its an honest position.

    Only punishing those who dare to allow Mexicans above their allotted position in society is sort of fucked up.
    This bill recognizes that going after familes for hiring an illegal nanny or housekeeper is going to be politically unpopular. And it's really tough to enforce the law on that level. So, why bother?

    It's a lot easier and productive to go after the meat-packing plant or landscaping service that hires dozens or hundreds of illegals.

    And the whole comment about punishing people for hiring Mexicans outside of their alloted position in life is silly. Illegals pretty much unformly work in low-skill service jobs, regardless of the size of the employer.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Bullio wrote: »
    Arizona Senate Passes Bill To Let State Nullify Federal Laws
    After being shot down earlier this week, the Arizona State Senate revived and successfully passed a bill that would create a mechanism for the state to nullify federal laws.

    As TPM has reported, Senate Bill 1433 would create a 12-person "Joint Legislative Committee on Nullification of Federal Laws," which would "recommend, propose and call for a vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the People to the federal government in the United States Constitution."

    The bill passed the Senate 16-11 after three Republicans switched their vote.

    Iowa passed a similar bill in its House last month, though that bill specified that the state would not be required to follow the individual mandate in the health care reform law. The Arizona bill gives the committee more broad powers to review "all existing federal statutes, mandates and Executive orders for the purpose of determining their constitutionality."

    But State Senate President Russell Pearce (R) -- who introduced the bill, and also sponsored the state's controversial immigration law -- implied that health care reform was at least part of the impetus for the law: "If we don't take back our sovereign ability for the states to control the federal government, I guess we have no right to complain," he said, the Arizona Republic reports. "I guess 'Obamacare' is OK for you."

    Nullification laws go against the language of the Constitution, which is pretty clear on the subject:
    This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
    The Arizona bill will now go to the House for a vote.

    "United States of America When We Feel Like It"

    Welcome to scenic Arizona! The temperature is currently 103 degrees and the year is still currently 1828!

    Lawndart on
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