This match is pretty convincing evidence that Khaydarin Amulet should NOT be removed.
The last couple of minutes were pretty convincing that it could be too strong in its current form though.
Several times sanZenith has been on the verge of losing the game when he warps in some templars to stabilise again.
And I know you Terrans will all be like "hurr durr thats evidence it should be removed because he can just survive forever" but scfOu is going pure bio. Vs Storm.
And still managing to turn games into 20min+ macrofests that are back and forth despite sanZenith having had the perfect unit composition against it every time. Pure bio should not be able to beat a Protoss who has psi storm and an even economy, and I'm worrying that the removal of psi storm will not only make bio the only build to use vs P but also the deathknell for Mech TvP, which is actually a more fun matchup to play from both sides.
There are several ways to beat a mech player. You can abuse his lack of mobility by never engaging his army and doing drops and things, you can go immortal/chargelot if he goes light on the blue flame hellions, or immortal/stalker/phoenix if he's going heavy on blue flame and light on thors, you can go blink stalker to blink right up to the tanks, or DTs to harass expansions.
Vs Bio you can...go Colossus. Or Templar. Or you can die. And drops and harassment are less effective because a Terran bio army is more mobile than anything Protoss will have vs a bio army.the Protoss anti-bio army has to be together to beat the bio ball, unsupported colossi and templar will just die without doing anything, so if you split up a group of gateway units to go and harass that can cost you the game.
This match is pretty convincing evidence that Khaydarin Amulet should NOT be removed.
In a way I would argue the opposite, but considering the alternative is colossi play forever instead it will be rather boring :P.
Dhal, he is going almost pure marauder, which kinda counters storm since marauders don't like dying. I'd like to see how it looked if he mixed in some void rays there actually, although vikings would probably kill that idea fairly quickly :P.
I start every day at work by catching up on this thread and get really pumped up for playing when I get home. But then in the evening after dinner I'm all tired and just go "meh, why bother" .
How to get playing and shit?
Movitz on
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Well if Amulet is removed, Collosi will basically be the thing to do, in every single matchup, no matter what.
Unless you DT rush, but then you'd go into Collosi anyway.
This match is pretty convincing evidence that Khaydarin Amulet should NOT be removed.
The last couple of minutes were pretty convincing that it could be too strong in its current form though.
Several times sanZenith has been on the verge of losing the game when he warps in some templars to stabilise again.
And I know you Terrans will all be like "hurr durr thats evidence it should be removed because he can just survive forever" but scfOu is going pure bio. Vs Storm.
And still managing to turn games into 20min+ macrofests that are back and forth despite sanZenith having had the perfect unit composition against it every time. Pure bio should not be able to beat a Protoss who has psi storm and an even economy, and I'm worrying that the removal of psi storm will not only make bio the only build to use vs P but also the deathknell for Mech TvP.
Warping in storms feels too strong, but warping in templar who cant storm for so long as they would without amulet is even worse. There just needs to be a more reasonable time between warp in and storming.
815165 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
and yet the storm still didn't run him over quickly despite scfou insisting on going pure bio again.
Dhalphir on
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Movitz: shoot some kids on your lawn, that'll get your blood ready for some SC2 :P
Seguer on
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
I am *loving* that I haven't seen any serious colossus play yet, but I agree: These two games turn into curb-stomps without amulet. san was literally one templar away from dying half a dozen times in game 1 because of good ol' 1ta marauders.
This match is pretty convincing evidence that Khaydarin Amulet should NOT be removed.
The last couple of minutes were pretty convincing that it could be too strong in its current form though.
Several times sanZenith has been on the verge of losing the game when he warps in some templars to stabilise again.
And I know you Terrans will all be like "hurr durr thats evidence it should be removed because he can just survive forever" but scfOu is going pure bio. Vs Storm.
And still managing to turn games into 20min+ macrofests that are back and forth despite sanZenith having had the perfect unit composition against it every time. Pure bio should not be able to beat a Protoss who has psi storm and an even economy, and I'm worrying that the removal of psi storm will not only make bio the only build to use vs P but also the deathknell for Mech TvP.
Warping in storms feels too strong, but warping in templar who cant storm for so long as they would without amulet is even worse. There just needs to be a more reasonable time between warp in and storming.
agree with all of this.
If it wasn't such an inelegant solution, I'd propose making the khaydarin amulet make HT starting energy be 65 up from 50. That way it only takes a few moments to get enough energy to storm, but you aren't essentially buying psi storms for 50/150 in a battle the way you do currently.
I am *loving* that I haven't seen any serious colossus play yet, but I agree: These two games turn into curb-stomps without amulet. san was literally one templar away from dying half a dozen times in game 1 because of good ol' 1ta marauders.
quoting for truth.
Agree that storm/templar in its current form on live with warping in templars that can storm immediately is borderline too strong, but templars warping in with 50 energy all game long is a little too weak.
Dhalphir on
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Hell, buying a single storm for 50/150 is pretty goddamn expensive anyway, especially when you think about how much you have to build/research just to get to that point.
It's funny because as the game goes on, sc is moving more and more towards making only marauders and medivacs
Haven't you heard?
something something making only marauders is creative because a terran is doing it?
Lemming on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
this is pretty good play by SC.
i mean yeah, he's only making marauders (lol 1ta marauders) but thats pretty much the best choice right now given he has no significant alternative tech or production buildings ready to go.
Dhalphir on
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Probably.
That and they're so OP.
I would love sanZenith to just totally switch into olololvoidrays but he's surviving off storms at this point.
Seguer on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
i dont get it
Dhalphir on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I am several pages late, but...
I'm pretty sure Artosis had his wisdom teeth out. Which is a surgery that they put you under for, followed by a highly unpleasant recovery process. It sucked when I had mine out.
3cl1ps3 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Haha, sanZenith mined out the top, right and 1/3 of the bottom, and he still got beat by a terran who was only on 1-2 bases at any given time. And sc mostly only made marauders. lol.
Lemming on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Haha, sanZenith mined out the top, right and 1/3 of the bottom, and he still got beat by a terran who was only on 1-2 bases at any given time. And sc mostly only made marauders. lol.
who also pretty much never tried to micro out of storms
Haha, sanZenith mined out the top, right and 1/3 of the bottom, and he still got beat by a terran who was only on 1-2 bases at any given time. And sc mostly only made marauders. lol.
There's some reasonable math out there supporting the idea that the game is designed around someone being on 3 mining bases at any one time in terms of effective production. So base disparity doesn't seem to be as big a factor in who's ahead as it would appear, especially with how cost effective Terran bio is supposed to be.
Haha, sanZenith mined out the top, right and 1/3 of the bottom, and he still got beat by a terran who was only on 1-2 bases at any given time. And sc mostly only made marauders. lol.
All the games were close, but that one was super down to the wire. San has got this imo.
All San had to do was put down 2 stargates at some point when he had 2 - 3 mining bases and get voidrays, and with Sc's terrible storm-micro he wouldn't have to worry about them dying to marines or vikings...
Posts
Several times sanZenith has been on the verge of losing the game when he warps in some templars to stabilise again.
And I know you Terrans will all be like "hurr durr thats evidence it should be removed because he can just survive forever" but scfOu is going pure bio. Vs Storm.
And still managing to turn games into 20min+ macrofests that are back and forth despite sanZenith having had the perfect unit composition against it every time. Pure bio should not be able to beat a Protoss who has psi storm and an even economy, and I'm worrying that the removal of psi storm will not only make bio the only build to use vs P but also the deathknell for Mech TvP, which is actually a more fun matchup to play from both sides.
There are several ways to beat a mech player. You can abuse his lack of mobility by never engaging his army and doing drops and things, you can go immortal/chargelot if he goes light on the blue flame hellions, or immortal/stalker/phoenix if he's going heavy on blue flame and light on thors, you can go blink stalker to blink right up to the tanks, or DTs to harass expansions.
Vs Bio you can...go Colossus. Or Templar. Or you can die. And drops and harassment are less effective because a Terran bio army is more mobile than anything Protoss will have vs a bio army.the Protoss anti-bio army has to be together to beat the bio ball, unsupported colossi and templar will just die without doing anything, so if you split up a group of gateway units to go and harass that can cost you the game.
In a way I would argue the opposite, but considering the alternative is colossi play forever instead it will be rather boring :P.
Dhal, he is going almost pure marauder, which kinda counters storm since marauders don't like dying. I'd like to see how it looked if he mixed in some void rays there actually, although vikings would probably kill that idea fairly quickly :P.
How to get playing and shit?
Unless you DT rush, but then you'd go into Collosi anyway.
Study time!
and yet the storm still didn't run him over quickly despite scfou insisting on going pure bio again.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
agree with all of this.
If it wasn't such an inelegant solution, I'd propose making the khaydarin amulet make HT starting energy be 65 up from 50. That way it only takes a few moments to get enough energy to storm, but you aren't essentially buying psi storms for 50/150 in a battle the way you do currently.
quoting for truth.
Agree that storm/templar in its current form on live with warping in templars that can storm immediately is borderline too strong, but templars warping in with 50 energy all game long is a little too weak.
"We will both play this one way no matter what I don't care shut up."
hahahahahahahah this made me giggle
something something making only marauders is creative because a terran is doing it?
i mean yeah, he's only making marauders (lol 1ta marauders) but thats pretty much the best choice right now given he has no significant alternative tech or production buildings ready to go.
That and they're so OP.
I would love sanZenith to just totally switch into olololvoidrays but he's surviving off storms at this point.
And this.
I'm pretty sure Artosis had his wisdom teeth out. Which is a surgery that they put you under for, followed by a highly unpleasant recovery process. It sucked when I had mine out.
who also pretty much never tried to micro out of storms
All the games were close, but that one was super down to the wire. San has got this imo.
Things a typical bronze level player would do. Another example.