I've been seeing this more and more, even in Normal. (Haven't played Ranked in a week or so.) Send one guy to get a large push going in a lane, then 5-man group and push mid or take a neutral objective when they HAVE to send one guy to counter the minion push.
Yeah, I think this is a really good way to get easy dragons and buffs right now. I've had mixed success getting Baron this way, as Baron is a huge risk even 5v4. You end up fighting with horrible positioning and Baron DPSing your team, and there's a good chance you'll either get aced or have Baron stolen by the four-man group. Even if you do get the Baron, whoever's bot has probably pushed down at least one turret in the meantime.
But as a way to get free dragons and steal/gank in their jungle, yeah it's awesome.
More than anything, I'm noticing that it's now a necessity that at least 2 people on the team be running teleport.
I always strongly urge it to at least one player if I don't see it on anyone before we lock in.
I've been seeing Jannas with clairvoyance. Is that normal?
Yeah dps cant be bothered to get it so support does.
I've been seeing this more and more, even in Normal. (Haven't played Ranked in a week or so.) Send one guy to get a large push going in a lane, then 5-man group and push mid or take a neutral objective when they HAVE to send one guy to counter the minion push.
Yeah, I think this is a really good way to get easy dragons and buffs right now. I've had mixed success getting Baron this way, as Baron is a huge risk even 5v4. You end up fighting with horrible positioning and Baron DPSing your team, and there's a good chance you'll either get aced or have Baron stolen by the four-man group. Even if you do get the Baron, whoever's bot has probably pushed down at least one turret in the meantime.
But as a way to get free dragons and steal/gank in their jungle, yeah it's awesome.
More than anything, I'm noticing that it's now a necessity that at least 2 people on the team be running teleport.
I always strongly urge it to at least one player if I don't see it on anyone before we lock in.
I've been seeing Jannas with clairvoyance. Is that normal?
It's pretty nice for support heroes. I don't usually see it picked often on Janna specifically but it's hardly a bad choice since she's already amazing at escaping anyways.
I thought maybe it would benefit tossin' tornados but the guy playing her didn't say anything the whole game. He was super serious business.
-Lux laser ratio down to .75 from .85, but supposedly she's getting some kind of buff to her ability to support to compensate (speculation: maybe shield buff?)
-Sona getting new passive which requires more thought by the player--some kind of debuff to help support carry?
This is outrageous. If I wanted to support my teammates I wouldn't take the character I pick to consciously and specifically steal kills from them with.
-Lux laser ratio down to .75 from .85, but supposedly she's getting some kind of buff to her ability to support to compensate (speculation: maybe shield buff?)
-Sona getting new passive which requires more thought by the player--some kind of debuff to help support carry?
I didn't really think the problem with sona was her passive. it was the fact that all her abilities suck after repeated nerfing.
by the time minion waves get stronger reduced death times are no longer in effect
Her passive was pretty out of whack with her role though.
She was a harass-y support, it helped her do her job.
Her base values now are pretty junk, unfortunately. Valor is still okay, but her heal is so bad.
Honestly I would have nerfed the cooldown on rank 2 and 3 Lux laser but left the ratio alone
The problem isn't the amount of damage, it's the amount of poke you can do with it and still have it up for fights
True. If Maokai's ult were as effective - and I bring it up because it's available with similar frequency, as near as I can tell - people would be whining about him at a volume that might clog up the internet tubes for weeks.
I rock Clairvoyance on Zilean, who is really the only support I enjoy; it makes about equal sense on Janna. If you've already got solid escape material built in you can afford to be proactive about when you start using it.
What the hell? Lux laser nerf? I don't play that champion to cast bubbles on teammates. I play it to literally light bitches up. Don't do it riot please.
So is the whole "tanky DPS is overpowered" thing just a general forums meme? Everyone there seems to think it's the #1 problem with the game right now, but I honestly can't remember the last time I met a team of tanky DPS who did well. Normally they just get kited to death and can't push turrets. I haven't seen it on any streams either.
Is it a common low-ELO strat, or just the general forum perception being wrong as usual?
Team yells at me early on for initiating and forcing enemy fights.
I tell them to believe in the power of Tree Magic.
They open their hearts and let the power of the sapling fill them.
Enemy surrenders in the face of our might and the power of Tree Magic.
he is pretty tanky, and has a good ult if your team would actually get in it.
That's what I told them. I would toss my ult down and initiate on the team focusing the squishy akali and my team would drag the fight out of the ult.
I calmly asked them to believe and to fight on my ult, they listened, we won.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I just use his ult as a nuke for the lulz
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I think it's generically good picks being overblown, forums tend not to complain about what are the truly best strategies but what has the largest ratio of (ease of use) to (effectiveness). Tanky dps is a very forgiving role to play and you can get away with some shit, hence OP BEST EVARRRRR
Well yes that's part of it as well Once it has soaked up enough damage I pop it to do fun damage to the enemy team. Or is a low squishy is still in my ult I'll pop it for the kill.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Team yells at me early on for initiating and forcing enemy fights.
I tell them to believe in the power of Tree Magic.
They open their hearts and let the power of the sapling fill them.
Enemy surrenders in the face of our might and the power of Tree Magic.
I mean, I enjoy Maokai quite a bit, so please don't misconstrue and suppose I'm saying he sucks; he does not. The failure of people to appreciate Tree Magic and the weirdly mobile nature of teamfights in Normal queue, where I mainly play, has made it hard to have an "A-ha!" moment with him the way some folks were talking about in re: Tristana's combo earlier in the thread.
I try to use the ult as a finisher / to KS carries, for the most part, and it works, but it's no laser, that's for sure.
Also, seriously, how are you supposed to play him WITHOUT a rod? I don't really mind that Singed, Mundo, and arguably Galio have must-buy items, but at least they also have extra synergy with them. Maokai is just a great big mana-craving tree.
Man fuck this, they nerfed vlad way too much. It is impossible for him to lane against Morde, he just fucking shuts vlad down. Same with a few other champs, its so annoying. Vlad used to be balanced, it too kskill to win a lane, now he can just be shut down easily.
Man fuck this, they nerfed vlad way too much. It is impossible for him to lane against Morde, he just fucking shuts vlad down. Same with a few other champs, its so annoying. Vlad used to be balanced, it too kskill to win a lane, now he can just be shut down easily.
They really didn't nerf him that much. And every champ has tough opponents, its not like Morde was ever easy for Vlad to lane against.
Well morde is impossible to lane against, especially with the nerf to pool too. Like I just haven't ever been shut down this hard against any other mu.
While I would definitely say that Vlad was balanced, I wouldn't necessarily say he took a ton of skill to win his lane, compared to other champions. Playing "skillfully" as Vlad was basically just playing pretty cautiously until around 5, then becoming the god of sustainability at 7.
Man fuck this, they nerfed vlad way too much. It is impossible for him to lane against Morde, he just fucking shuts vlad down. Same with a few other champs, its so annoying. Vlad used to be balanced, it too kskill to win a lane, now he can just be shut down easily.
Morde is arguably the best laner in the game right now since he can shit on creep waves to force push without any real fear of death. The minion changes really hurt a lot of the solos who were good against him since they are ineffective at creep killing but great at harassing (Kass, Malphite, Teemo, Nunu, etc.)
Also, Vlad has never been a good laner. Having no resources and a health leech are all that made him good since you could just outlast your opponent. The changes to him recently don't really affect that unless you're playing him too aggressively or relied on your higher early-game AP values to harass people out of lanes. Bad Vlads that pool offensively and waste the cooldown have always been shut down horribly.
Vlad was about timing. You had to know when to use your stuff.
But yeah solo laning as Kass is a lot harder now. I really prefer 2 laning with him where he can harass to his hearts content without getting creeps overwhelming him.
Man fuck this, they nerfed vlad way too much. It is impossible for him to lane against Morde, he just fucking shuts vlad down. Same with a few other champs, its so annoying. Vlad used to be balanced, it too kskill to win a lane, now he can just be shut down easily.
They really didn't nerf him that much. And every champ has tough opponents, its not like Morde was ever easy for Vlad to lane against.
Yeah I've always been able to crush Vlads in lane as Morde, it's nothing new really. Vlad just does poorly against people that can actually withstand his constant harass.
Man fuck this, they nerfed vlad way too much. It is impossible for him to lane against Morde, he just fucking shuts vlad down. Same with a few other champs, its so annoying. Vlad used to be balanced, it too kskill to win a lane, now he can just be shut down easily.
They really didn't nerf him that much. And every champ has tough opponents, its not like Morde was ever easy for Vlad to lane against.
Yeah I've always been able to crush Vlads in lane as Morde, it's nothing new really. Vlad just does poorly against people that can actually withstand his constant harass.
And ou can eat people alive who can't do anything about it, like Annie.
Guys, I lost to a player more skilled than I am with a counter to my champion.
My champion is crap now and should be uninstalled.
Man, this game is going to hell fast.
He wasn't at all more skilled than me, he was very stupid. Constantly pushing tower, and I almost killed him but WW came to save him. I never got any help in my lane, if he was a smart player he would have absolutely wrecked me.
When I fail I blame myself or game mechanics, when you fail you blame team mates.
It is just frustrating that match ups exist in a game like this, I need to win my lane or we lose the game. I can't win my lane against certain opponents. Especially now with the tower changes you can give up towers so fast winning the lane is even more important.
It is just frustrating that match ups exist in a game like this, I need to win my lane or we lose the game. I can't win my lane against certain opponents. Especially now with the tower changes you can give up towers so fast winning the lane is even more important.
So if you can't win your lane against certain opponents why not move lane?
You can't argue that one character should be good against everyone in a solo lane, that would be gamebreaking.
Ok you play Vlad in a lane, and just press Q, you will get raped.
Basically if I see morde in lane against me as vlad I should just surrender.
That's not true. Rush Merc Treads and force him to make a decision about hitting you OR minions. Never let him do both.
You might die, but Vlad taking one single death, so long as you were playing well before / after doesn't lose you the lane necessarily. On the outside edge, I've come back from 0/3 before. 0/1 is very doable since Vlad is UP as fuck all early game.
You're not only a bad Vlad but a generally bad player (or at the least one who is mechanically sound but isn't capable of understanding the systems behind the game) if you think that is the sum of doing well as Vlad.
I'll keep doing well at high Elo both with and against Vlad though, and you can keep doing whatever it is you are doing.
Man fuck this, they nerfed vlad way too much. It is impossible for him to lane against Morde, he just fucking shuts vlad down. Same with a few other champs, its so annoying. Vlad used to be balanced, it too kskill to win a lane, now he can just be shut down easily.
They really didn't nerf him that much. And every champ has tough opponents, its not like Morde was ever easy for Vlad to lane against.
Yeah I've always been able to crush Vlads in lane as Morde, it's nothing new really. Vlad just does poorly against people that can actually withstand his constant harass.
And ou can eat people alive who can't do anything about it, like Annie.
Annie vs. Vlad goes to the better player. It only automatically goes to Vlad if Annie fails to achieve anything by level 9.
And again, the best counter to Vlad is actually a competent jungle. Anyone can lane vs. Vlad if their jungle is on top of things.
Guys, I lost to a player more skilled than I am with a counter to my champion.
My champion is crap now and should be uninstalled.
Man, this game is going to hell fast.
He wasn't at all more skilled than me, he was very stupid. Constantly pushing tower, and I almost killed him but WW came to save him. I never got any help in my lane, if he was a smart player he would have absolutely wrecked me.
When I fail I blame myself or game mechanics, when you fail you blame team mates.
It is just frustrating that match ups exist in a game like this, I need to win my lane or we lose the game. I can't win my lane against certain opponents. Especially now with the tower changes you can give up towers so fast winning the lane is even more important.
I was losing a Mundo v. Mundo match at top lane because I'd gotten a Ruby Crystal and he'd gotten a Doran's the other night, and it nearly drove me crazy. Sometimes the matchup is just not good. The problem here, on the game end, is the "I never got any help in my lane" part. Our Lux showed up and lasered Mundo after we'd had another of our beat on each other, back off, push R exchanges, and that - and an inexplicable choice on his behalf to make a Mallet first - turned the lane around for me.
So basically what I'm saying is that this is a community problem more than it's a problem with you, in all probability.
So is the whole "tanky DPS is overpowered" thing just a general forums meme? Everyone there seems to think it's the #1 problem with the game right now, but I honestly can't remember the last time I met a team of tanky DPS who did well. Normally they just get kited to death and can't push turrets. I haven't seen it on any streams either.
Is it a common low-ELO strat, or just the general forum perception being wrong as usual?
Tanky DPS counters unfocused, mediocre play, which is where the bitching comes in.
Posts
Yeah dps cant be bothered to get it so support does.
I thought maybe it would benefit tossin' tornados but the guy playing her didn't say anything the whole game. He was super serious business.
1/5/4
This is outrageous. If I wanted to support my teammates I wouldn't take the character I pick to consciously and specifically steal kills from them with.
I see some with ghost/ignite and facepalm
Her base values now are pretty junk, unfortunately. Valor is still okay, but her heal is so bad.
In a constant push team, I've run Flash/Clarity on her before.
True. If Maokai's ult were as effective - and I bring it up because it's available with similar frequency, as near as I can tell - people would be whining about him at a volume that might clog up the internet tubes for weeks.
I rock Clairvoyance on Zilean, who is really the only support I enjoy; it makes about equal sense on Janna. If you've already got solid escape material built in you can afford to be proactive about when you start using it.
i just wish tantrum did a little more damage. like, 280 at rank 5 would be better.
Is it a common low-ELO strat, or just the general forum perception being wrong as usual?
Team yells at me early on for initiating and forcing enemy fights.
I tell them to believe in the power of Tree Magic.
They open their hearts and let the power of the sapling fill them.
Enemy surrenders in the face of our might and the power of Tree Magic.
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he is pretty tanky, and has a good ult if your team would actually get in it.
That's what I told them. I would toss my ult down and initiate on the team focusing the squishy akali and my team would drag the fight out of the ult.
I calmly asked them to believe and to fight on my ult, they listened, we won.
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Well yes that's part of it as well
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I mean, I enjoy Maokai quite a bit, so please don't misconstrue and suppose I'm saying he sucks; he does not. The failure of people to appreciate Tree Magic and the weirdly mobile nature of teamfights in Normal queue, where I mainly play, has made it hard to have an "A-ha!" moment with him the way some folks were talking about in re: Tristana's combo earlier in the thread.
I try to use the ult as a finisher / to KS carries, for the most part, and it works, but it's no laser, that's for sure.
Also, seriously, how are you supposed to play him WITHOUT a rod? I don't really mind that Singed, Mundo, and arguably Galio have must-buy items, but at least they also have extra synergy with them. Maokai is just a great big mana-craving tree.
They really didn't nerf him that much. And every champ has tough opponents, its not like Morde was ever easy for Vlad to lane against.
nope.avi
Morde is arguably the best laner in the game right now since he can shit on creep waves to force push without any real fear of death. The minion changes really hurt a lot of the solos who were good against him since they are ineffective at creep killing but great at harassing (Kass, Malphite, Teemo, Nunu, etc.)
Also, Vlad has never been a good laner. Having no resources and a health leech are all that made him good since you could just outlast your opponent. The changes to him recently don't really affect that unless you're playing him too aggressively or relied on your higher early-game AP values to harass people out of lanes. Bad Vlads that pool offensively and waste the cooldown have always been shut down horribly.
is very skilled
One of these two does not belong.
But yeah solo laning as Kass is a lot harder now. I really prefer 2 laning with him where he can harass to his hearts content without getting creeps overwhelming him.
Ok you play Vlad in a lane, and just press Q, you will get raped.
Basically if I see morde in lane against me as vlad I should just surrender.
Yeah I've always been able to crush Vlads in lane as Morde, it's nothing new really. Vlad just does poorly against people that can actually withstand his constant harass.
And ou can eat people alive who can't do anything about it, like Annie.
My champion is crap now and should be uninstalled.
Man, this game is going to hell fast.
I think that about covers it.
When I fail I blame myself or game mechanics, when you fail you blame team mates.
It is just frustrating that match ups exist in a game like this, I need to win my lane or we lose the game. I can't win my lane against certain opponents. Especially now with the tower changes you can give up towers so fast winning the lane is even more important.
So if you can't win your lane against certain opponents why not move lane?
You can't argue that one character should be good against everyone in a solo lane, that would be gamebreaking.
That's not true. Rush Merc Treads and force him to make a decision about hitting you OR minions. Never let him do both.
You might die, but Vlad taking one single death, so long as you were playing well before / after doesn't lose you the lane necessarily. On the outside edge, I've come back from 0/3 before. 0/1 is very doable since Vlad is UP as fuck all early game.
You're not only a bad Vlad but a generally bad player (or at the least one who is mechanically sound but isn't capable of understanding the systems behind the game) if you think that is the sum of doing well as Vlad.
I'll keep doing well at high Elo both with and against Vlad though, and you can keep doing whatever it is you are doing.
Annie vs. Vlad goes to the better player. It only automatically goes to Vlad if Annie fails to achieve anything by level 9.
And again, the best counter to Vlad is actually a competent jungle. Anyone can lane vs. Vlad if their jungle is on top of things.
lets just all be friends guys
I was losing a Mundo v. Mundo match at top lane because I'd gotten a Ruby Crystal and he'd gotten a Doran's the other night, and it nearly drove me crazy. Sometimes the matchup is just not good. The problem here, on the game end, is the "I never got any help in my lane" part. Our Lux showed up and lasered Mundo after we'd had another of our beat on each other, back off, push R exchanges, and that - and an inexplicable choice on his behalf to make a Mallet first - turned the lane around for me.
So basically what I'm saying is that this is a community problem more than it's a problem with you, in all probability.
Well, I'm more talking laning phase, although Shen is a good Vlad counter because of the taunt.
I mentioned earlier that I 1v1ed a 7/3/6 or so Vlad as Shen one game and went on to win.
Tanky DPS counters unfocused, mediocre play, which is where the bitching comes in.