So Hacksaw and I just had a couple bad games, then we played a bot game, and we were up 70-20 last I checked, and he was doing 1500 damage. It was hilarious.
I've also learned that the primary thing that makes this game unfun is flash. In one of those bad games, we were going to kill a Gangplank who was heading for purple side blue. One came from lower river, one was at blue and headed south at him, and I cam from upper river. Perfect three prong strike and he ignored all of us and flashed through the wall with a sliver of health. Now the entire team had flash and did that to us the whole time.
When the enemy has flash a good idea is to attempt ganks that you know won't work out to see if they'll get scared and pop flash (or another summoner spell).
It's pretty effective, actually. And then you can go for the real gank later when you know their escapes are down.
Yeah, but like I said, all 5 had flash, wasn't worth wasting time to set up 5 fake ganks, especially since they'd each fall back and not push out until it was almost time for flash to be back up.
It's worth the time to set one "fake" gank and follow on it immediately. Also, people are silly, sometimes they don't realize the trouble they are in and flash too late or too early. Flash is nice, but certainly not a get out of jail card in the lane.
Or if all else fails, just get a bunch of guys together to push the hell out of their tower. If they flash away and play super defensively it shouldn't be too hard to get a lot of hits on the tower.
(And yeah you don't have to burn everyone's flash, just the flash on the target that seems easiest to gank)
So champ select our team is Maokai, Xin Zhao, Jax, Shaco, and me, Alistar. We get in game and Shaco is jungling with exhaust/ignite. Everyone goes side lanes... WTF who do we send mid?
This is horrible team comp. Can't win this game.
What do you do?
You put on your fucking shades and say deal with it. Alistar goes up against Urgot mid and we win the fucking game. They only get one tower, which was the top 1v2 lane.
That was so much fun. Our Jax started off 0/5/1. Ended 14/7/8.
Ranged carries? Don't fucking need them.
8-)
xin mid is a thing. a good ting
Jars on
0
Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
xin can lock most ranged and melee champions down so yeah
get a little too far outside of your tower range against Xin and you instantly lose 50%+ of your health
If only enthusiasm translated into something useful.
Edit: I've had 5 Nidalee mirror matches in a row now. Short of brain-meltingly stupid mistakes, there's really nothing you can do to each other. It's pretty dumb.
I'm starting to fall more into Wicked's point of view the more I play this game. My tolerance level for solo queue shenanigans has been steadily dropping and dropping.
God I wish there was actually a competitive 5v5 scene for this game. It's such a good game, such a fun game, but high level competitive play is kind of a joke.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Winning a high-level game happens in two places: champ selection and last-hitting. CLG has proven that much.
Problem is that neither of those is especially interesting or fun.
Which is why LoL isn't really suited to competitive play.
Ehh
I mean I agree those two are really important at high levels, but I don't agree that they're all that matters.
CLG is very tight and coordinated and they do all the little things very, very well
One example which comes to mind is how much they all like Ghost. This is something TreeEskimo has mentioned a number of times. They use Ghost for map control--they'll pop it so that they can get across the map faster than people expect and surprise people by being there while their internal "I'm safe from ganks" timer is still ticking.
I mean that's just one example obviously but things like that are a really huge deal in high level competitive play.
And positioning is still RIDICULOUSLY important in teamfights, another thing CLG does really well
Obviously there isn't really a skill ceiling on landing skillshots
And on the list goes
Yeah champ select and last hitting are much more important at extremely high levels of play than elsewhere, but I don't think they're more than half of the equation, if that
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I think the real reasons high level competitive play hasn't taken off for LoL are twofold:
1) No observer mode, no replays. Can't really have a competitive eSports game without at least the former and preferably the latter as well.
2) Poor organization. Riot doesn't run enough tournaments for enough levels of play so it's hard to get people interested in 5v5 team play. Plus the rating system for 5v5 ranked is pretty flawed and unappealing. On top of all of that, the client is pretty shitty at helping organize and promote competitive play. You pretty much just have friends list, ignore list, and custom games, and that's it. No clans. No way to organize community events. (How sweet would it be to have an events section where players can schedule a tournament, buy RP, and offer it as a prize or prizes for winning?)
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I think the real reasons high level competitive play hasn't taken off for LoL are twofold:
1) No observer mode, no replays. Can't really have a competitive eSports game without at least the former and preferably the latter as well.
2) Poor organization. Riot doesn't run enough tournaments for enough levels of play so it's hard to get people interested in 5v5 team play. Plus the rating system for 5v5 ranked is pretty flawed and unappealing. On top of all of that, the client is pretty shitty at helping organize and promote competitive play. You pretty much just have friends list, ignore list, and custom games, and that's it. No clans. No way to organize community events. (How sweet would it be to have an events section where players can schedule a tournament, buy RP, and offer it as a prize or prizes for winning?)
i really don't understand why replays aren't included.
as for clans, you can always jump into chat channels...
Honestly I think most of the reason why high level play isn't as popular is because the community for this game is absolute shit, it is fucking atrocious. The game takes some blame sure, but it is mostly the community. A lot of games have communities where people form teams or whatever, try out for the team, practice all that stuff, this game really lacks that and any sort of forum/site for a community like that. For the most part, the majority of people are just fucktards, idiots, elitist pricks or a combination of them which means that that sort of community won't take off until the playerbase changes.
The playerbases of Dota and Hon are definitely a whole lot worse in my experience. Since dying has a harsher penalty in those games, people get mad really fast.
The other problem with competitive LoL is that it takes forever to start being able to play the 'real game', with level 30, most/all of the champions unlocked, plenty of runes, etc. Even with buying champions w/ RP (which I'd imagine most people wouldn't want to do), it still takes 100s of games to actually get an account in place that could play competitively.
The other problem with competitive LoL is that it takes forever to start being able to play the 'real game', with level 30, most/all of the champions unlocked, plenty of runes, etc. Even with buying champions w/ RP (which I'd imagine most people wouldn't want to do), it still takes 100s of games to actually get an account in place that could play competitively.
Yeah the grind is kind of ridiculous
Not so much getting to level 30 because let's be honest the skill gap between the average sub-30 player and the average level 30 player is pretty huge
But getting all the runes and champions you would want to have to play competitively, takes forever
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
The other problem with competitive LoL is that it takes forever to start being able to play the 'real game', with level 30, most/all of the champions unlocked, plenty of runes, etc. Even with buying champions w/ RP (which I'd imagine most people wouldn't want to do), it still takes 100s of games to actually get an account in place that could play competitively.
Yeah the grind is kind of ridiculous
Not so much getting to level 30 because let's be honest the skill gap between the average sub-30 player and the average level 30 player is pretty huge
But getting all the runes and champions you would want to have to play competitively, takes forever
Going from Level 1 to 30 is good for someone learning the game, and it's way, way better than picking up DotA and HoN were because for the most part, you'll be matched up against people roughly at the same skill as you.
But if you were a DotA pro, picking up LoL takes way more time than picking up HoN, especially since HoN in beta was a straight DotA clone.
lol will not be competitively interesting to watch for the same reason wow arena and WC3 are not. death values are too high, so players have to do everything they can to not die, and the better they are the better they are at not dying. which makes the game farming creeps and harass which is booooooring. SC2 starts out a bit slow but rapidly picks up the pace.
I should pick up kassadin. he is always killing lots of mans.
lol will not be competitively interesting to watch for the same reason wow arena and WC3 are not. death values are too high, so players have to do everything they can to not die, and the better they are the better they are at not dying. which makes the game farming creeps and harass which is booooooring. SC2 starts out a bit slow but rapidly picks up the pace.
I should pick up kassadin. he is always killing lots of mans.
WC3 was perfectly interesting to watch competitively!
My first few online games in Normal had no trolls or ragers. Plenty of people talked minimally or NOT AT ALL, which was fine although it makes for a pretty disorganized team. After reading the last few pages though I'm curious as to when I will get dropped into actual ELO hell. The ELO rating kicks in after what, about 10 games?
Also, most Trynds seem to have a terrible early game but I saw one last night who was really good and farmed well enough to wreck my novice-level team. Pretty sure I am supposed to stun him but the timing is difficult; if I do it too early he'll spin away just before the ult expires, and if I wait too long he'll kill at least one person before I stun. It didn't help that I chose to play Taric O_o and didn't get thornmail or randuin's or whatever the hell I'm supposed to get against AD carries.
lol will not be competitively interesting to watch for the same reason wow arena and WC3 are not. death values are too high, so players have to do everything they can to not die, and the better they are the better they are at not dying. which makes the game farming creeps and harass which is booooooring. SC2 starts out a bit slow but rapidly picks up the pace.
I should pick up kassadin. he is always killing lots of mans.
WC3 was perfectly interesting to watch competitively!
lol will not be competitively interesting to watch for the same reason wow arena and WC3 are not. death values are too high, so players have to do everything they can to not die, and the better they are the better they are at not dying. which makes the game farming creeps and harass which is booooooring. SC2 starts out a bit slow but rapidly picks up the pace.
I should pick up kassadin. he is always killing lots of mans.
It's kind of like the difference between baseball and basketball, to be honest; and as a sports fan, I prefer the former.
In a competitive SC2 match, lots of units are going to die before the game is finally decided one way or another. So sure, there is more shit happening, but none of it means as much. Just like scoring a couple points in basketball isn't that big of a deal.
But when somebody hits a three-run homer, that's fucking exciting, because there's so much suspense and tension leading up to it.
Same sort of thing in LoL. The pacing is slower, yes--you spend less time killing player-controlled units. But when you do kill them, it's after a lot of tension and build-up, and it's far more meaningful. That early dragon fight where you pick up two kills and the dragon is LoL's three-run homer. And I love being able to follow it and pinpoint the exact moment where the game turned in a team's favor.
In StarCraft 2--and in basketball--that's not always so easy to do.
TL;DR I prefer the slower pacing which is more focused on "big plays". Personal taste I guess.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
lol will not be competitively interesting to watch for the same reason wow arena and WC3 are not. death values are too high, so players have to do everything they can to not die, and the better they are the better they are at not dying. which makes the game farming creeps and harass which is booooooring. SC2 starts out a bit slow but rapidly picks up the pace.
I should pick up kassadin. he is always killing lots of mans.
It's kind of like the difference between baseball and basketball, to be honest; and as a sports fan, I prefer the former.
In a competitive SC2 match, lots of units are going to die before the game is finally decided one way or another. So sure, there is more shit happening, but none of it means as much. Just like scoring a couple points in basketball isn't that big of a deal.
But when somebody hits a three-run homer, that's fucking exciting, because there's so much suspense and tension leading up to it.
Same sort of thing in LoL. The pacing is slower, yes--you spend less time killing player-controlled units. But when you do kill them, it's after a lot of tension and build-up, and it's far more meaningful. That early dragon fight where you pick up two kills and the dragon is LoL's three-run homer. And I love being able to follow it and pinpoint the exact moment where the game turned in a team's favor.
In StarCraft 2--and in basketball--that's not always so easy to do.
I've actually talked with other people about why we love SC2 so much and it came down to very very gradual shifts in who is winning... lots of small advantages won and lost and lots of tension as you try and convert on a tiny advantage.
I prefer basketball to baseball as well
Powerpuppies on
0
TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
The other problem with competitive LoL is that it takes forever to start being able to play the 'real game', with level 30, most/all of the champions unlocked, plenty of runes, etc. Even with buying champions w/ RP (which I'd imagine most people wouldn't want to do), it still takes 100s of games to actually get an account in place that could play competitively.
It reminds me of trying to get into Magic, a huge investment up front before you can even get into being a 'player'. Except that's even harder because imagine half the champions you've worked for becoming unusable in ranked play and a whole new set that you have to unlock again being released every 6 months
I don't even have all the champions i want. Akali does not cost 3150 ip, she costs 3150 + a VERY specific rune page or else I'm playing 'gimped' and feel like i can't pick her in games even though I have a ball playing her
hahaha godlike kennen and TF, so cheesy that it's good, I'd high five them.
and honestly, it kills me that there are no clans or Observer mode in this game. Just sitting in your clan channel in stuff like Wc3 and talking to clan members was half the fun! and it would make getting games together 200x's easier and faster, not everyone wants to jump through vent channels looking for a game. Also, so kind of you know, reward , for advancing up the ranked ladder would go a long way in actually making people want to play well and not pick random champs or just playing like shit.
But really, I just want CLANS dammit, goddamn you Riot....
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
Posts
Or if all else fails, just get a bunch of guys together to push the hell out of their tower. If they flash away and play super defensively it shouldn't be too hard to get a lot of hits on the tower.
(And yeah you don't have to burn everyone's flash, just the flash on the target that seems easiest to gank)
xin mid is a thing. a good ting
get a little too far outside of your tower range against Xin and you instantly lose 50%+ of your health
This solo queue Nasus, right
He goes bottom lane 40 minutes in when in ally chat I am saying
Get to Baron, everyone, don't let them Baron--because they are obviously grouping near there and our Yi even almost gets caught AT Baron but gets out
I ping Nasus, he doesn't respond, just keeps farming (he's not even pushing, he's just free farming)
Ping him second time, doesn't move
Say in ally chat, "Nasus, get to Baron dude"
He doesn't move
They move in on Baron and are obviously about to start it
At this point I abandon all pretense of politeness and just start spamming his position on the minimap
He still doesn't move a fucking muscle
So they finish the Baron and he finally decides it's time to stop farming and runs up to mid
Fantastic job, bro, I'm glad your Q is doing 40 more damage
Super glad
man.
If only enthusiasm translated into something useful.
Edit: I've had 5 Nidalee mirror matches in a row now. Short of brain-meltingly stupid mistakes, there's really nothing you can do to each other. It's pretty dumb.
God I wish there was actually a competitive 5v5 scene for this game. It's such a good game, such a fun game, but high level competitive play is kind of a joke.
Problem is that neither of those is especially interesting or fun.
Which is why LoL isn't really suited to competitive play.
He ha been getting some truly awful teams , as well as people watching his stream and then taunting him about it. Feel sorry for him.
You just described pretty much every MOBA. Hell you could describe SC like that, high level games come down to build order and unit control.
Which is just fine by me.
Ehh
I mean I agree those two are really important at high levels, but I don't agree that they're all that matters.
CLG is very tight and coordinated and they do all the little things very, very well
One example which comes to mind is how much they all like Ghost. This is something TreeEskimo has mentioned a number of times. They use Ghost for map control--they'll pop it so that they can get across the map faster than people expect and surprise people by being there while their internal "I'm safe from ganks" timer is still ticking.
I mean that's just one example obviously but things like that are a really huge deal in high level competitive play.
And positioning is still RIDICULOUSLY important in teamfights, another thing CLG does really well
Obviously there isn't really a skill ceiling on landing skillshots
And on the list goes
Yeah champ select and last hitting are much more important at extremely high levels of play than elsewhere, but I don't think they're more than half of the equation, if that
1) No observer mode, no replays. Can't really have a competitive eSports game without at least the former and preferably the latter as well.
2) Poor organization. Riot doesn't run enough tournaments for enough levels of play so it's hard to get people interested in 5v5 team play. Plus the rating system for 5v5 ranked is pretty flawed and unappealing. On top of all of that, the client is pretty shitty at helping organize and promote competitive play. You pretty much just have friends list, ignore list, and custom games, and that's it. No clans. No way to organize community events. (How sweet would it be to have an events section where players can schedule a tournament, buy RP, and offer it as a prize or prizes for winning?)
Edit: heh, beat me to it!
i really don't understand why replays aren't included.
as for clans, you can always jump into chat channels...
Joe's Stream.
Re: playerbase
Is actually better than you'll see in most other online games.
You might have a bit of observation bias going on, Fiz...
I totally agree with the guy. Bob doesn't sound too happy playing today, should take a rest.
Edit: Just hope he doesn't quit like Roku or TreeEskimo......
Edit2: What is that tournament they are talking about?
I've honestly found it to be the worst playerbase of any online game I've played.
Perhaps because it's free, who knows.
obligatory
there is this thing called fun
and people have it when they play lux
Yeah the grind is kind of ridiculous
Not so much getting to level 30 because let's be honest the skill gap between the average sub-30 player and the average level 30 player is pretty huge
But getting all the runes and champions you would want to have to play competitively, takes forever
Going from Level 1 to 30 is good for someone learning the game, and it's way, way better than picking up DotA and HoN were because for the most part, you'll be matched up against people roughly at the same skill as you.
But if you were a DotA pro, picking up LoL takes way more time than picking up HoN, especially since HoN in beta was a straight DotA clone.
I should pick up kassadin. he is always killing lots of mans.
WC3 was perfectly interesting to watch competitively!
Also, most Trynds seem to have a terrible early game but I saw one last night who was really good and farmed well enough to wreck my novice-level team. Pretty sure I am supposed to stun him but the timing is difficult; if I do it too early he'll spin away just before the ult expires, and if I wait too long he'll kill at least one person before I stun. It didn't help that I chose to play Taric O_o and didn't get thornmail or randuin's or whatever the hell I'm supposed to get against AD carries.
not if it's orc vs night elf at blizzcon
I guess PAX Prime is better
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
it was unpleasant
It's kind of like the difference between baseball and basketball, to be honest; and as a sports fan, I prefer the former.
In a competitive SC2 match, lots of units are going to die before the game is finally decided one way or another. So sure, there is more shit happening, but none of it means as much. Just like scoring a couple points in basketball isn't that big of a deal.
But when somebody hits a three-run homer, that's fucking exciting, because there's so much suspense and tension leading up to it.
Same sort of thing in LoL. The pacing is slower, yes--you spend less time killing player-controlled units. But when you do kill them, it's after a lot of tension and build-up, and it's far more meaningful. That early dragon fight where you pick up two kills and the dragon is LoL's three-run homer. And I love being able to follow it and pinpoint the exact moment where the game turned in a team's favor.
In StarCraft 2--and in basketball--that's not always so easy to do.
TL;DR I prefer the slower pacing which is more focused on "big plays". Personal taste I guess.
I've actually talked with other people about why we love SC2 so much and it came down to very very gradual shifts in who is winning... lots of small advantages won and lost and lots of tension as you try and convert on a tiny advantage.
I prefer basketball to baseball as well
It reminds me of trying to get into Magic, a huge investment up front before you can even get into being a 'player'. Except that's even harder because imagine half the champions you've worked for becoming unusable in ranked play and a whole new set that you have to unlock again being released every 6 months
I don't even have all the champions i want. Akali does not cost 3150 ip, she costs 3150 + a VERY specific rune page or else I'm playing 'gimped' and feel like i can't pick her in games even though I have a ball playing her
hahaha godlike kennen and TF, so cheesy that it's good, I'd high five them.
and honestly, it kills me that there are no clans or Observer mode in this game. Just sitting in your clan channel in stuff like Wc3 and talking to clan members was half the fun! and it would make getting games together 200x's easier and faster, not everyone wants to jump through vent channels looking for a game. Also, so kind of you know, reward , for advancing up the ranked ladder would go a long way in actually making people want to play well and not pick random champs or just playing like shit.
But really, I just want CLANS dammit, goddamn you Riot....
I'm dead serious."