I haven't played the game, nor the one before it, and don't intend to, but I sure have read enough on the internet to confidently say that games can feature tortured, screaming souls, and not cross the line. Until those tortured screaming souls are women. And that's just not cool, okay? I mean. Women. I'm okay with the bloody and grotesque destruction of a virtual human. As long as it's a man.
This reminds me...
When will we get a new Soldier of Fortune game that doesn't suck, I wonder?
Skull2185 on
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
I haven't played the game, nor the one before it, and don't intend to, but I sure have read enough on the internet to confidently say that games can feature tortured, screaming souls, and not cross the line. Until those tortured screaming souls are women. And that's just not cool, okay? I mean. Women. I'm okay with the bloody and grotesque destruction of a virtual human. As long as it's a man.
I want to make a map that's just hangin' out on the beach tossin' frisbees.
It's all fun and games until the alien bastards show up and you have to fight them off.... with water guns!
Artoria on
0
Goose!That's me, honeyShow me the way home, honeyRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Man you guys are gonna go bald from splitting all those hairs.
There is a scene in the game in which women are trapped from the waist down, crying, and the monsters are called Pregnators. But there is no rape in the game, guys. Certainly that is not what is happening.
I think the lack of spoiler tags in this thread PROVES intent to troll.
If you cared about ruining peoples' enjoyment of the game, you would spoiler tag your spoilers. The idea that someone would rather enjoy the game -- and encourage other people to enjoy the game -- rather than participate in your debate seems to be incredibly offensive to you. If you cared about ruining other peoples' fun, you would've been considerate enough to spoiler tag your spoilers.
This only leaves us to ponder what might be motivating all this trolling. Could this be simple boredom? In one's childlike need to entertain themselves at any cost, trolling is certainly more entertaining than boredom. Could it be commercially motivated? Was there enough bad blood formed during the creation of this game that some competing publisher -- perhaps one party to a lawsuit -- has paid a marketing firm to drown any discussion of this game in pointless debate?
If you feel you've been falsely accused of trolling, I have two points of advice for you:
I may not have been talking about you, if you weren't actually deliberately trolling.
Think about what an actual deliberate troll would be saying and doing. What can you do to make your posts look as different from that as possible?
Do that.
Yes as it turns out I'm enjoying the game quite a bit, and would recommend it to others as a flawed but awesome title. But the sheer quantity of rapid-reply debate crap in this thread has served to drown out that majority opinion quite nicely, hasn't it?
Agree to disagree already, please. Thirty pages ago if possible.
mspencer on
MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
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0
augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Was there enough bad blood formed during the creation of this game that some competing publisher -- perhaps one party to a lawsuit -- has paid a marketing firm to drown any discussion of this game in pointless debate?
Why schadenfreude? Did you want it to suck? I don't like the game at all, but I feel no pleasure from the fact it's a poor game. It just makes me sad as I was hoping for a great return of Duke Nukem 3Ds core gameplay, with new fancy bells and whistles. I feel disappointed: But no sense of pleasure or "Ha this game deserves to suck for 12 years of development time" like some on the internet have.
Schadenfreude may be the wrong word but I do find it legitimately fun to deconsruct a piece of media and find out what it did right (or in this case, not) and DNF is particularly interesting in this regard. I think theres a lot to be learned from where this game fails.
I am not a corporate shill ... yet, but my posting time is available at highly affordable rates.
Nope, my discourse on the topic definitely hasn't been based upon watching footage of a level that I find reprehensible. Totally uninformed opinion there.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Man you guys are gonna go bald from splitting all those hairs.
There is a scene in the game in which women are trapped from the waist down, crying, and the monsters are called Pregnators. But there is no rape in the game, guys. Certainly that is not what is happening.
I think it is quite insidious to imply that once the rape is over, the suffering is over. And that the game is somehow off the hook because nothing was actually shown explicitly. In many ways, a post-rape scene highlights the true scope of such a horrible crime.
The_Scarab on
0
Goose!That's me, honeyShow me the way home, honeyRegistered Userregular
Man you guys are gonna go bald from splitting all those hairs.
There is a scene in the game in which women are trapped from the waist down, crying, and the monsters are called Pregnators. But there is no rape in the game, guys. Certainly that is not what is happening.
I think it is quite insidious to imply that once the rape is over, the suffering is over. And that the game is somehow off the hook because nothing was actually shown explicitly. In many ways, a post-rape scene highlights the true scope of such a horrible crime.
Another good point and way to look at it. Regardless of what you believe happens in the game, what is portrayed is awful and in the context of Duke Nukem it feels like its being made light of.
And we just got off this topic for half of last page. Then someone said that people be trolling, so we get to have another page with everyone saying the same fucking thing over and over.
I think it is quite insidious to imply that once the rape is over, the suffering is over. And that the game is somehow off the hook because nothing was actually shown explicitly. In many ways, a post-rape scene highlights the true scope of such a horrible crime.
Umm in this case, it would be over if people would stop dwelling on it and analyzing it. Because in this case its a video game. Real rape, is a real issue... same with real murder and real torture... they are all serious issues, and I would treat them with equal seriousness.
The thing is, people are picking and choosing what is ok in video games here. I can go play Bulletstorm and spend countless hours trying to perfect my skills at penetrating people with a stake up the ass, or trying to get nut shots on a guy after setting him on fire. Thats totally ok, and we dont need to debate it because its just video game violence... dont like it, then dont play it. But a 40 second scene with rape as an implied issue is something people gotta go nuts about. Personally I didn't like the hive scene at all, so guess what, I wont repeat that part of the game... simple as that.
itt we learn that making a thread for a video game on a discussion board doesn't exclusively limit it to just people who like the game or just people who dislike it and that both are going to post in it
I think it is quite insidious to imply that once the rape is over, the suffering is over. And that the game is somehow off the hook because nothing was actually shown explicitly. In many ways, a post-rape scene highlights the true scope of such a horrible crime.
Umm in this case, it would be over if people would stop dwelling on it and analyzing it. Because in this case its a video game. Real rape, is a real issue... same with real murder and real torture... they are all serious issues, and I would treat them with equal seriousness.
The thing is, people are picking and choosing what is ok in video games here. I can go play Bulletstorm and spend countless hours trying to perfect my skills at penetrating people with a stake up the ass, or trying to get nut shots on a guy after setting him on fire. Thats totally ok, and we dont need to debate it because its just video game violence... dont like it, then dont play it. But a 40 second scene with rape as an implied issue is something people gotta go nuts about. Personally I didn't like the hive scene at all, so guess what, I wont repeat that part of the game... simple as that.
It's because rape victims and victim advocates are more sensitive about the nature of their trauma than victims of other crimes because in a lot of cases, it isn't just about the violence, it's about gender inequality.
I think it is quite insidious to imply that once the rape is over, the suffering is over. And that the game is somehow off the hook because nothing was actually shown explicitly. In many ways, a post-rape scene highlights the true scope of such a horrible crime.
Umm in this case, it would be over if people would stop dwelling on it and analyzing it. Because in this case its a video game. Real rape, is a real issue... same with real murder and real torture... they are all serious issues, and I would treat them with equal seriousness.
The thing is, people are picking and choosing what is ok in video games here. I can go play Bulletstorm and spend countless hours trying to perfect my skills at penetrating people with a stake up the ass, or trying to get nut shots on a guy after setting him on fire. Thats totally ok, and we dont need to debate it because its just video game violence... dont like it, then dont play it. But a 40 second scene with rape as an implied issue is something people gotta go nuts about. Personally I didn't like the hive scene at all, so guess what, I wont repeat that part of the game... simple as that.
If only people would stop dwelling on things and analyzing them, then the world would be problem free! Flawless logic right there.
Violence of all kinds is an inherent part of human existence, and by extension human art. It is always a matter of interpretation and degrees of portrayal. DNF crosses a line. Bulletstorm is a poor counter example because it is specifically a satire on video game violence, entirely self-referential and goes nowhere near the line that DNF crosses so brazenly.
He goes into great analytical detail of what the game is showing, and exactly why it needs to be discussed. Asking everyone to stop talking about it and to just get over it is really unhelpful. If it were people spouting subjective opinions about whether shooting an alien was good here or better elsewhere, then fine, that can be played out and people can go elsewhere. A discussion about the portrayal of post-rape victims being used as a punchline, however, is more valid.
Rape is definitely not a joke, and I have no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for women to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the woman than on the man. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a sad, depressed sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and heal.
Another good point and way to look at it. Regardless of what you believe happens in the game, what is portrayed is awful and in the context of Duke Nukem it feels like its being made light of.
I have no problem with making light of any horrific shit.
Still hilarious.
The amount of analysis and complaint surrounding DNF is hilariously awesome; it tells me there's a lot of people who don't get out much - if they did then they may find more important things to put their protestatious energies into.
Violence of all kinds is an inherent part of human existence, and by extension human art. It is always a matter of interpretation and degrees of portrayal. DNF crosses a line. Bulletstorm is a poor counter example because it is specifically a satire on video game violence, entirely self-referential and goes nowhere near the line that DNF crosses so brazenly.
Absolutely wrong. You are saying muder is ok and rape is not ok.
Bulletstorm jokes about crazy-fucked up ways to kill people.
DNF jokes about rape.
These are facts.
The only difference is Bulletstorm spends the entire game making these jokes. Duke spent all of a minute or so doing it.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Bulletstorm and the stupid killing of mans... and I didnt enjoy the short scene in DNF. But I dont sit there saying one is worse than the other, they are equally "bad" in terms of morals/values.
If only people would stop dwelling on things and analyzing them, then the world would be problem free! Flawless logic right there.
Violence of all kinds is an inherent part of human existence, and by extension human art. It is always a matter of interpretation and degrees of portrayal. DNF crosses a line. Bulletstorm is a poor counter example because it is specifically a satire on video game violence, entirely self-referential and goes nowhere near the line that DNF crosses so brazenly.
What line does DNF cross?
How is Bulletstorm a poor counter example when one of the abilities in a game encourages you to penetrate someone in the butt with a drill?
People keep saying things like "It's crossed a line" without really giving an example as to how. There are analogs to pretty callous and awful things in other video games.
If the real complaint is that DNF is particularly crass and heavy handed, then yeah, it is, and that's valid. But "Crossing the line"? Compared to... what?
Is there a way to get Duke 3D's multiplayer to work these days? I assume we can discuss all Duke games in this thread.
xDuke
YANG
yes
Im trying to play DN3D with a freind and we have trouble with YANG
Its funny because years ago I recall playing Shadow warrior with a freind and succeeding.
what troubles, what source port?
Pretty sure its YANG. My router is set as a DMZ, My firewall is off... And when I host it has trouble connecting to the master server.
I THINK back a year or two ago I used something called Playerconnector to run Shadow Warrior. It was fun and helps get the topic OFF that 5 minute rape scene. Come on guys.
Is there a way to get Duke 3D's multiplayer to work these days? I assume we can discuss all Duke games in this thread.
xDuke
YANG
yes
Im trying to play DN3D with a freind and we have trouble with YANG
Its funny because years ago I recall playing Shadow warrior with a freind and succeeding.
what troubles, what source port?
Pretty sure its YANG. My router is set as a DMZ, My firewall is off... And when I host it has trouble connecting to the master server.
I THINK back a year or two ago I used something called Playerconnector to run Shadow Warrior. It was fun and helps get the topic OFF that 5 minute rape scene. Come on guys.
YANG is the game browser, what duke exe are you using? Try using the xDuke source port, works fine for me
Posts
This reminds me...
When will we get a new Soldier of Fortune game that doesn't suck, I wonder?
Yes because this is exactly what is being done.
It's all fun and games until the alien bastards show up and you have to fight them off.... with water guns!
There is a scene in the game in which women are trapped from the waist down, crying, and the monsters are called Pregnators. But there is no rape in the game, guys. Certainly that is not what is happening.
If you cared about ruining peoples' enjoyment of the game, you would spoiler tag your spoilers. The idea that someone would rather enjoy the game -- and encourage other people to enjoy the game -- rather than participate in your debate seems to be incredibly offensive to you. If you cared about ruining other peoples' fun, you would've been considerate enough to spoiler tag your spoilers.
This only leaves us to ponder what might be motivating all this trolling. Could this be simple boredom? In one's childlike need to entertain themselves at any cost, trolling is certainly more entertaining than boredom. Could it be commercially motivated? Was there enough bad blood formed during the creation of this game that some competing publisher -- perhaps one party to a lawsuit -- has paid a marketing firm to drown any discussion of this game in pointless debate?
If you feel you've been falsely accused of trolling, I have two points of advice for you:
Yes as it turns out I'm enjoying the game quite a bit, and would recommend it to others as a flawed but awesome title. But the sheer quantity of rapid-reply debate crap in this thread has served to drown out that majority opinion quite nicely, hasn't it?
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
Are you fucking shitting me?
Schadenfreude may be the wrong word but I do find it legitimately fun to deconsruct a piece of media and find out what it did right (or in this case, not) and DNF is particularly interesting in this regard. I think theres a lot to be learned from where this game fails.
Nope, my discourse on the topic definitely hasn't been based upon watching footage of a level that I find reprehensible. Totally uninformed opinion there.
I think it is quite insidious to imply that once the rape is over, the suffering is over. And that the game is somehow off the hook because nothing was actually shown explicitly. In many ways, a post-rape scene highlights the true scope of such a horrible crime.
Another good point and way to look at it. Regardless of what you believe happens in the game, what is portrayed is awful and in the context of Duke Nukem it feels like its being made light of.
And we just got off this topic for half of last page. Then someone said that people be trolling, so we get to have another page with everyone saying the same fucking thing over and over.
Umm in this case, it would be over if people would stop dwelling on it and analyzing it. Because in this case its a video game. Real rape, is a real issue... same with real murder and real torture... they are all serious issues, and I would treat them with equal seriousness.
The thing is, people are picking and choosing what is ok in video games here. I can go play Bulletstorm and spend countless hours trying to perfect my skills at penetrating people with a stake up the ass, or trying to get nut shots on a guy after setting him on fire. Thats totally ok, and we dont need to debate it because its just video game violence... dont like it, then dont play it. But a 40 second scene with rape as an implied issue is something people gotta go nuts about. Personally I didn't like the hive scene at all, so guess what, I wont repeat that part of the game... simple as that.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would vote yes, but the console versions are ugly and load very slowly
It's because rape victims and victim advocates are more sensitive about the nature of their trauma than victims of other crimes because in a lot of cases, it isn't just about the violence, it's about gender inequality.
If only people would stop dwelling on things and analyzing them, then the world would be problem free! Flawless logic right there.
Violence of all kinds is an inherent part of human existence, and by extension human art. It is always a matter of interpretation and degrees of portrayal. DNF crosses a line. Bulletstorm is a poor counter example because it is specifically a satire on video game violence, entirely self-referential and goes nowhere near the line that DNF crosses so brazenly.
Crap. I thought we were past this
you're not going to move past this
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3416433&userid=118075
He goes into great analytical detail of what the game is showing, and exactly why it needs to be discussed. Asking everyone to stop talking about it and to just get over it is really unhelpful. If it were people spouting subjective opinions about whether shooting an alien was good here or better elsewhere, then fine, that can be played out and people can go elsewhere. A discussion about the portrayal of post-rape victims being used as a punchline, however, is more valid.
Rape is definitely not a joke, and I have no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for women to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the woman than on the man. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a sad, depressed sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and heal.
I have no problem with making light of any horrific shit.
Still hilarious.
xDuke
YANG
yes
Absolutely wrong. You are saying muder is ok and rape is not ok.
Bulletstorm jokes about crazy-fucked up ways to kill people.
DNF jokes about rape.
These are facts.
The only difference is Bulletstorm spends the entire game making these jokes. Duke spent all of a minute or so doing it.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Bulletstorm and the stupid killing of mans... and I didnt enjoy the short scene in DNF. But I dont sit there saying one is worse than the other, they are equally "bad" in terms of morals/values.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What line does DNF cross?
How is Bulletstorm a poor counter example when one of the abilities in a game encourages you to penetrate someone in the butt with a drill?
People keep saying things like "It's crossed a line" without really giving an example as to how. There are analogs to pretty callous and awful things in other video games.
If the real complaint is that DNF is particularly crass and heavy handed, then yeah, it is, and that's valid. But "Crossing the line"? Compared to... what?
Im trying to play DN3D with a freind and we have trouble with YANG
Its funny because years ago I recall playing Shadow warrior with a freind and succeeding.
Have you ever heard his version of the Aristrocrats joke?
Goddamn that is funny! (and incredibly fucked up)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsComedy
When Family Guy uses it several times over, it has probably stopped being the normal type of extreme offensiveness and just the Marilyn Manson type of "oh, there he goes again with this stupid shit" offensiveness.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/marilyn-manson-now-going-doortodoor-trying-to-shoc,459/
what troubles, what source port?
Penny Arcade Podcasts - ...When I Search Bear Rape
Pretty sure its YANG. My router is set as a DMZ, My firewall is off... And when I host it has trouble connecting to the master server.
I THINK back a year or two ago I used something called Playerconnector to run Shadow Warrior. It was fun and helps get the topic OFF that 5 minute rape scene. Come on guys.