As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

Duke Nukem Forever: The Duke Says "Whatta Mess."

1515254565761

Posts

  • Helios127Helios127 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    No, YANG has problems connecting to the master server when I start a room with it.

    Helios127 on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    hm, can you connect directly?

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Rehab wrote: »
    I say if you are going to attempt a rape joke and have almost everyone come away laughing and satisfied, takes some cues from The Onion.

    Penny Arcade Podcasts - ...When I Search Bear Rape

    This is quite hilarious.

    mrt144 on
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Sheep wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »

    If only people would stop dwelling on things and analyzing them, then the world would be problem free! Flawless logic right there.

    Violence of all kinds is an inherent part of human existence, and by extension human art. It is always a matter of interpretation and degrees of portrayal. DNF crosses a line. Bulletstorm is a poor counter example because it is specifically a satire on video game violence, entirely self-referential and goes nowhere near the line that DNF crosses so brazenly.

    What line does DNF cross?

    How is Bulletstorm a poor counter example when one of the abilities in a game encourages you to penetrate someone in the butt with a drill?

    People keep saying things like "It's crossed a line" without really giving an example as to how. There are analogs to pretty callous and awful things in other video games.

    If the real complaint is that DNF is particularly crass and heavy handed, then yeah, it is, and that's valid. But "Crossing the line"? Compared to... what?

    Because when you satirize something there is a covenant between the satirist and the audience, acknowledging the fact that while it is funny to joke about these things, or about anything, they're not doing out of a callous, unfeeling detachment to the real world. They're doing so because sometimes things like that are funny.

    Duke Nukem Forever doesn't do this. I played it and even if we removed this entire rape argument from the table, the rest of the game plays these things straight. It's not a satire, it's not ironically pueurile. It genuinely thinks those things are funny. Which is an astonishing feat in a game that literally has a cue to Press X to Ogle.

    Bulletstorm could only ever be taken in an unironic way, well I don't even know how that's possible. The characters in that game tell people to suck a fuck, and they're scared dickless! It is so egregiously over the top, so obviously self referential that to compare it to Duke Nukem Forever's straight faced infantile humour is completely disingenuous. They are simply not the same.


    And I was absolutely not saying murder is ok, rape is not. Nor making any kind of similar arbitrary distinction. As strange as it seems I have no doubts that there are funny rape jokes out there, that humour can be found in the most horrific of places. That's what makes us human. But when no humour is found, when the 'gag' is pure mockery and not in any way mature or has substance, then you have crossed the line. The line between clever irony and inhuman psychosis.

    The line is one of interpretation, it is not clearly defined. But as was said, DNF has so far crossed that line that there can be no ambiguity. Not least because the game was boring, embarassing and poorly designed. It is lacking in all areas, and I would not single out that one scene as somehow disconnected from the rest. Taken as a whole it is completely detached from any kind of humoured take on that character, which is what we expected it to be. We expected it to play into the fact that the Duke character is a relic of an ancient past, but no, it carries on as usual.

    Is it the most egregious example of tasteless humour in a game? Absolutely not. Nor is it the worst. But this is the DNF thread so it's entirely discussion appropriate.

    The_Scarab on
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    Because when you satirize something there is a covenant between the satirist and the audience, acknowledging the fact that while it is funny to joke about these things, or about anything, they're not doing out of a callous, unfeeling detachment to the real world. They're doing so because sometimes things like that are funny.

    Duke Nukem Forever doesn't do this. I played it and even if we removed this entire rape argument from the table, the rest of the game plays these things straight. It's not a satire, it's not ironically pueurile. It genuinely thinks those things are funny. Which is an astonishing feat in a game that literally has a cue to Press X to Ogle.

    Bulletstorm could only ever be taken in an unironic way, well I don't even know how that's possible. The characters in that game tell people to suck a fuck, and they're scared dickless! It is so egregiously over the top, so obviously self referential that to compare it to Duke Nukem Forever's straight faced infantile humour is completely disingenuous. They are simply not the same.

    Basically, I'm interpreting this as a situation where DNF is merely unsuccessful in what it's trying to do, and thus it's flaws are way more evident because of it. Fine and fair enough.

    Though Bulletstorm tries to play straight faced as anything else. I mean, the story behind the game is as super serious as you can get.

    Sheep on
  • Helios127Helios127 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    You know what, Fine, Im pitching in on this DNF rape discussion.

    There were woman tied up in DN3D. Infact, I think its worse there. I recall on a few occasions the devs placing them RIGHT INFRONT of crucial powerups, like a atomichealth (+50 HP, can go over the 100 baseline). They murmer "Killmee..." when you use them and often times killing them (And strippers, you could kill strippers) spawns more aliens.

    Now the "Rape" scene in DNF is disturbing. I will give you that. But some of us actually LIKE this game. Are we all as bad as hitler because of this?

    Helios127 on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The joke about weight gain wasn't that rape itself is funny, it is that the person cares more about the weight gain than the horrific shit. It is basically the same joke as this:
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/grizzly-bear-sprained-paw-while-mauling-hunter-rep,20685/

    Couscous on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Helios127 wrote: »
    Now the "Rape" scene in DNF is disturbing. I will give you that. But some of us actually LIKE this game. Are we all as bad as hitler because of this?

    If you enjoyed that scene, if you squealed with glee when the alien babies burst out... yeah.

    I liked the gameplay just fine, but there's definitely stuff in there that just aint good. Such as that scene.

    edit: This is kind of a pet peeve of mine, people thinking that they have to like every single thing about the games that they like or that they have to jump in the defense of their game if someone criticizes the bad things about it. Blurry textures in Twilight Princess, no, fuck you, it's Zelda and I love it. Awful combat in Dragon Age: Origins, eat a dick dinghole, it's the most perfect game ever made. Poor attempts at humor in Duke Forever, have a human meat injection up your ass, its fun shooting pigcops and that automatically makes everything about the game great and outstanding.

    People need to learn that you can like something and still find flaws in it.

    reVerse on
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    Rape as comedy isn't that unusual even if it is offensive.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsComedy

    Heh, going down and clicking on the "Rape in General" folder and looking under "video games" reveals:
    • Duke Nukem Forever, in the most appalling way. From Destructoid's review:

    One level in particular takes place in an alien nest where Earth's women are being inseminated by giant penises. The women writhe and moan in a fairly humiliating fashion, and they regularly sob with no small amount of implied misery. In essence, the women look like they're getting raped. In fact, they are. That's the big joke of the level. The aliens are raping the women to create babies.

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
  • FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Rehab wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Rape as comedy isn't that unusual even if it is offensive.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsComedy

    Heh, going down and clicking on the "Rape in General" folder and looking under "video games" reveals:
    • Duke Nukem Forever, in the most appalling way. From Destructoid's review:

    One level in particular takes place in an alien nest where Earth's women are being inseminated by giant penises. The women writhe and moan in a fairly humiliating fashion, and they regularly sob with no small amount of implied misery. In essence, the women look like they're getting raped. In fact, they are. That's the big joke of the level. The aliens are raping the women to create babies.

    Oh good god!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOTaJr27-WU

    I do that to my cat all the time.

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Rehab wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Rape as comedy isn't that unusual even if it is offensive.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsComedy

    Heh, going down and clicking on the "Rape in General" folder and looking under "video games" reveals:
    • Duke Nukem Forever, in the most appalling way. From Destructoid's review:

    One level in particular takes place in an alien nest where Earth's women are being inseminated by giant penises. The women writhe and moan in a fairly humiliating fashion, and they regularly sob with no small amount of implied misery. In essence, the women look like they're getting raped. In fact, they are. That's the big joke of the level. The aliens are raping the women to create babies.
    I don't really get that from Giant Bomb's quick look. They joke about a lot of shit related to rape like abortion jokes, but the joke isn't simply rape like in most prison rape jokes or almost anything Quagmire does in Family Guy, including raping Marge Simpson.

    Couscous on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    reVerse wrote: »
    Helios127 wrote: »
    Now the "Rape" scene in DNF is disturbing. I will give you that. But some of us actually LIKE this game. Are we all as bad as hitler because of this?

    If you enjoyed that scene, if you squealed with glee when the alien babies burst out... yeah.

    I liked the gameplay just fine, but there's definitely stuff in there that just aint good. Such as that scene.

    edit: This is kind of a pet peeve of mine, people thinking that they have to like every single thing about the games that they like or that they have to jump in the defense of their game if someone criticizes the bad things about it. Blurry textures in Twilight Princess, no, fuck you, it's Zelda and I love it. Awful combat in Dragon Age: Origins, eat a dick dinghole, it's the most perfect game ever made. Poor attempts at humor in Duke Forever, have a human meat injection up your ass, its fun shooting pigcops and that automatically makes everything about the game great and outstanding.

    People need to learn that you can like something and still find flaws in it.

    All opinions on everything must be binary in nature.

    mrt144 on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don't really get that from Giant Bomb's quick look. They joke about a lot of shit related to rape like abortion jokes, but the joke isn't simply rape like in most prison rape jokes or almost anything Quagmire does in Family Guy, including raping Marge Simpson.

    ...he did? So... did they event attempt to make it funny, or did they stick with the thought that Quagmire raping Marge Simpson is inherently hilarious?

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I think a lot of these reviewers, I ain't calling them journalist because that doesn't exist in video games, are not even offended by it. They are just saying they are because in their eyes it's the right thing to say.

    Algertman on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    So, where does the dialogue "They told me it was save to swallow!" fit in?

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don't really get that from Giant Bomb's quick look. They joke about a lot of shit related to rape like abortion jokes, but the joke isn't simply rape like in most prison rape jokes or almost anything Quagmire does in Family Guy, including raping Marge Simpson.

    ...he did? So... did they event attempt to make it funny, or did they stick with the thought that Quagmire raping Marge Simpson is inherently hilarious?

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/879376/deleted_family_guy_scene_marge_and_quagmire/
    Basically it relies on rape being funny. Basically, Seth doesn't know the difference between that kind of joke and this:
    Taggart: I got it! I got it!
    Hedley Lamarr: You do?
    Taggart: We'll work up a Number 6 on 'em.
    Hedley Lamarr: [frowns] "Number 6"? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that one.
    Taggart: Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course.
    Hedley Lamarr: You spare the women?
    Taggart: Naw, we rape the shit out of them at the Number Six Dance later on.
    Hedley Lamarr: Marvelous!
    In one, the joke is "look at us, we are depicting rape!" In the other, it is supposed to be really goddamn dark humor involving the people villains being ridiculously evil.

    Couscous on
  • Helios127Helios127 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The game also implies Pedophelia.

    On the scene where you can autograph the book, you can draw a GIANT PENIS in it, mentally scaring the virtual kid for life.

    Why arnt we discussing this?

    Helios127 on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Helios127 wrote: »
    The game also implies Pedophelia.

    On the scene where you can autograph the book, you can draw a GIANT PENIS in it, mentally scaring the virtual kid for life.

    Why arnt we discussing this?

    http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-feminism.php
    duke3g.jpg

    Couscous on
  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    The joke about weight gain wasn't that rape itself is funny, it is that the person cares more about the weight gain than the horrific shit. It is basically the same joke as this:
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/grizzly-bear-sprained-paw-while-mauling-hunter-rep,20685/

    So basically "the joke isnt that rape is funny on its own, the joke is that the character being raped is a brainless bimbo. Thats funny".

    Jeedan on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    ....goddamn I hate Family Guy.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • SomestickguySomestickguy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Algertman wrote: »
    I think a lot of these reviewers, I ain't calling them journalist because that doesn't exist in video games, are not even offended by it. They are just saying they are because in their eyes it's the right thing to say.

    Yes, because there is no way that people can be offended by this without pretending.

    Come on, really? It's one thing to say you weren't personally offended by the scene. It's another thing to fail so completely at understanding what people might consider offensive that you'll actually accuse people of lying about it.

    Somestickguy on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ....goddamn I hate Family Guy.

    I have no sound at work, what do Quagmire and Marge say afterwards?
    It looks like she liked it and wants more or something?

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • LaPuzzaLaPuzza Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    At least we all agree that Family Guy is awful.

    In any event, I'm only one level into the game, and I'm wondering 2 things. First, if I'm the target audience (someone that was a Teenager when DN3d was released), what difficulty should I play on? Second, how long is this game?

    LaPuzza on
  • DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Algertman wrote: »
    I think a lot of these reviewers, I ain't calling them journalist because that doesn't exist in video games, are not even offended by it. They are just saying they are because in their eyes it's the right thing to say.

    that's some pretty sick-nasty projection you've got going on there, bro

    you should take that shit to a movie theater because they'd all be like daaaaaammmmnn

    high



    definition

    Daypigeon on
  • davinciedavincie Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Klyka wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ....goddamn I hate Family Guy.

    I have no sound at work, what do Quagmire and Marge say afterwards?
    It looks like she liked it and wants more or something?

    They go to her house for round 2 and he kills her entire family

    Family Guy is awful.

    davincie on
    20qx2bp.jpg
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    davincie wrote: »
    Klyka wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ....goddamn I hate Family Guy.

    I have no sound at work, what do Quagmire and Marge say afterwards?
    It looks like she liked it and wants more or something?

    They go to her house for round 2 and he kills her entire family

    Family Guy is awful.

    Wait, what?



    What?

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    Rehab wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Rape as comedy isn't that unusual even if it is offensive.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeAsComedy

    Heh, going down and clicking on the "Rape in General" folder and looking under "video games" reveals:
    • Duke Nukem Forever, in the most appalling way. From Destructoid's review:

    One level in particular takes place in an alien nest where Earth's women are being inseminated by giant penises. The women writhe and moan in a fairly humiliating fashion, and they regularly sob with no small amount of implied misery. In essence, the women look like they're getting raped. In fact, they are. That's the big joke of the level. The aliens are raping the women to create babies.
    I don't really get that from Giant Bomb's quick look. They joke about a lot of shit related to rape like abortion jokes, but the joke isn't simply rape like in most prison rape jokes or almost anything Quagmire does in Family Guy, including raping Marge Simpson.

    Well the first sentence is dramatized because you don't actually see the women being inseminated by giant penises, but the not-so-subtle implication is that they are (or whatever sex organ the aliens might have). The rest of the description is an accurate potrayal of what is happening in the level though. Apparently at the end of the level Duke quips about the boss taking his tentacles and going back to Japan, or something like that.

    And goddamn that Family Guy scene is horrible.

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Klyka wrote: »
    davincie wrote: »
    Klyka wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ....goddamn I hate Family Guy.

    I have no sound at work, what do Quagmire and Marge say afterwards?
    It looks like she liked it and wants more or something?

    They go to her house for round 2 and he kills her entire family

    Family Guy is awful.

    Wait, what?



    What?

    Family Guy is pretty fucking terrible.

    Rizzi on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The talk of rape reminds me of the rape joke in Bully. There was a mission where you gathered some shit for the lunch lady's date, including some drugs for some date rape. She then drugged some of his coffee and drags him off. Now that made me queasy.

    Couscous on
  • The Reverend Dr GalactusThe Reverend Dr Galactus Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Maybe this really is gaming's A Clockwork Orange. An over-the-top narrative about a perverse misanthrope, highly controversial mostly for one scene, and highly divisive. Perhaps 35 years from now, game buffs and game-school students will rave about the genius of it.

    Yes, I just compared George Broussard to Stanley Kubrick.

    The Reverend Dr Galactus on
    valar-moreshellus.png
    PSN:RevDrGalactus/NN:RevDrGalactus/Steam
  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    Helios127 wrote: »
    The game also implies Pedophelia.

    On the scene where you can autograph the book, you can draw a GIANT PENIS in it, mentally scaring the virtual kid for life.

    Why arnt we discussing this?

    http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-feminism.php
    duke3g.jpg

    I actually like where that review starts, but the ending is kinda meh. Still, one of the most thoughtful and interesting reviews I've read on Duke yet. I do wish the author had taken it further (even if it was meant to be "funny").

    Lilnoobs on
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Because when you satirize something there is a covenant between the satirist and the audience, acknowledging the fact that while it is funny to joke about these things, or about anything, they're not doing out of a callous, unfeeling detachment to the real world. They're doing so because sometimes things like that are funny.

    Duke Nukem Forever doesn't do this. I played it and even if we removed this entire rape argument from the table, the rest of the game plays these things straight. It's not a satire, it's not ironically pueurile. It genuinely thinks those things are funny. Which is an astonishing feat in a game that literally has a cue to Press X to Ogle.

    Bulletstorm could only ever be taken in an unironic way, well I don't even know how that's possible. The characters in that game tell people to suck a fuck, and they're scared dickless! It is so egregiously over the top, so obviously self referential that to compare it to Duke Nukem Forever's straight faced infantile humour is completely disingenuous. They are simply not the same.


    And I was absolutely not saying murder is ok, rape is not. Nor making any kind of similar arbitrary distinction. As strange as it seems I have no doubts that there are funny rape jokes out there, that humour can be found in the most horrific of places. That's what makes us human. But when no humour is found, when the 'gag' is pure mockery and not in any way mature or has substance, then you have crossed the line. The line between clever irony and inhuman psychosis.

    The line is one of interpretation, it is not clearly defined. But as was said, DNF has so far crossed that line that there can be no ambiguity. Not least because the game was boring, embarassing and poorly designed. It is lacking in all areas, and I would not single out that one scene as somehow disconnected from the rest. Taken as a whole it is completely detached from any kind of humoured take on that character, which is what we expected it to be. We expected it to play into the fact that the Duke character is a relic of an ancient past, but no, it carries on as usual.

    Is it the most egregious example of tasteless humour in a game? Absolutely not. Nor is it the worst. But this is the DNF thread so it's entirely discussion appropriate.

    Really? No matter how you try to twist words, anally violating someone in Bulletstorm while setting them on fire after you buddy shot their nuts off.... is still what it is. It doesn't matter if they are serious, ironic, or whatever. You're still saying DNF is ok and Bulletstorm isn't... which is wrong, period.
    Both have equally bad content, regardless of whether one is more or less funny or not than the other.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • davinciedavincie Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Fun fact about A Clockwork Orange: The author hated it and only wrote it for the money and to work out a bad experience. So not like DNF at all since Pitchfork loves it.

    davincie on
    20qx2bp.jpg
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    The talk of rape reminds me of the rape joke in Bully. There was a mission where you gathered some shit for the lunch lady's date, including some drugs for some date rape. She then drugged some of his coffee and drags him off. Now that made me queasy.

    You use GHB on one person you're a monster. You use GHB on everyone at your high school and put them into compromising positions in an effort to promote social unity and you're hailed as a hero.

    mrt144 on
  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Algertman wrote: »
    I think a lot of these reviewers, I ain't calling them journalist because that doesn't exist in video games, are not even offended by it. They are just saying they are because in their eyes it's the right thing to say.

    Yes, because there is no way that people can be offended by this without pretending.

    Come on, really? It's one thing to say you weren't personally offended by the scene. It's another thing to fail so completely at understanding what people might consider offensive that you'll actually accuse people of lying about it.

    People fake being offended by things all of the time. Because it allows them to fall on what is considered the right side of the argument. Because sometimes not being offended by something instantly places you on the wrong side of the argument in a lot of peoples eyes.

    Algertman on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ....goddamn I hate Family Guy.

    I almost forgot about the Meg rape one too.
    Peter: Can I have that record? I love that song. I’ll let you have sex with my daughter…

    Waiter: I don’t know…let’s see what your daughter looks like.

    P: She’s…uhh…(pans past Meg to “hot” girl)…right there!

    W: Ok, I’ll do her. But can you tell her to cry and beg me to stop?

    P: I think that can be arranged.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFIDVMYx34o
    Thanks to being a person who has had the misfortune of having watched family guy, I am more likely to just go "sigh, not this shit again." Rape jokes are also fairly popular in other "edgy" media that is pretty much no longer edgy and just stupid.

    Couscous on
  • NaturalNarcissistNaturalNarcissist Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I can't even believe someone is arguing that tone isn't the point. OF COURSE tone counts.

    That's like arguing that Looney Tunes has the same amount of gore as MadWord.

    Just, no. Fuck no.

    Now, Bulletstorm had its own problems, mainly that it tried to graft some strong and emotional character work alongside the more farcical elements. But, you know, DNF just lacks that winking nod that lets us know that the developers are in on the joke.

    NaturalNarcissist on
  • SomestickguySomestickguy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Algertman wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    I think a lot of these reviewers, I ain't calling them journalist because that doesn't exist in video games, are not even offended by it. They are just saying they are because in their eyes it's the right thing to say.

    Yes, because there is no way that people can be offended by this without pretending.

    Come on, really? It's one thing to say you weren't personally offended by the scene. It's another thing to fail so completely at understanding what people might consider offensive that you'll actually accuse people of lying about it.

    People fake being offended by things all of the time. Because it allows them to fall on what is considered the right side of the argument. Because sometimes not being offended by something instantly places you on the wrong side of the argument in a lot of peoples eyes.

    What's the basis of these assumptions you're making? What did these reviewers say to make you doubt that they were offended?

    Like pigeonking said, it just seems like you're projecting here.

    Somestickguy on
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I've seen the Duke footage in question and it doesn't even come close to the kind of casual assholery Family Guy spews out on a regular basis.

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Badwrong wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Because when you satirize something there is a covenant between the satirist and the audience, acknowledging the fact that while it is funny to joke about these things, or about anything, they're not doing out of a callous, unfeeling detachment to the real world. They're doing so because sometimes things like that are funny.

    Duke Nukem Forever doesn't do this. I played it and even if we removed this entire rape argument from the table, the rest of the game plays these things straight. It's not a satire, it's not ironically pueurile. It genuinely thinks those things are funny. Which is an astonishing feat in a game that literally has a cue to Press X to Ogle.

    Bulletstorm could only ever be taken in an unironic way, well I don't even know how that's possible. The characters in that game tell people to suck a fuck, and they're scared dickless! It is so egregiously over the top, so obviously self referential that to compare it to Duke Nukem Forever's straight faced infantile humour is completely disingenuous. They are simply not the same.


    And I was absolutely not saying murder is ok, rape is not. Nor making any kind of similar arbitrary distinction. As strange as it seems I have no doubts that there are funny rape jokes out there, that humour can be found in the most horrific of places. That's what makes us human. But when no humour is found, when the 'gag' is pure mockery and not in any way mature or has substance, then you have crossed the line. The line between clever irony and inhuman psychosis.

    The line is one of interpretation, it is not clearly defined. But as was said, DNF has so far crossed that line that there can be no ambiguity. Not least because the game was boring, embarassing and poorly designed. It is lacking in all areas, and I would not single out that one scene as somehow disconnected from the rest. Taken as a whole it is completely detached from any kind of humoured take on that character, which is what we expected it to be. We expected it to play into the fact that the Duke character is a relic of an ancient past, but no, it carries on as usual.

    Is it the most egregious example of tasteless humour in a game? Absolutely not. Nor is it the worst. But this is the DNF thread so it's entirely discussion appropriate.

    Really? No matter how you try to twist words, anally violating someone in Bulletstorm while setting them on fire after you buddy shot their nuts off.... is still what it is. It doesn't matter if they are serious, ironic, or whatever. You're still saying DNF is ok and Bulletstorm isn't... which is wrong, period.
    Both have equally bad content, regardless of whether one is more or less funny or not than the other.

    That isn't how it really works though, because the underlying intent of the violence (serious or so over-the-top that its humorous) does matter. If, for instance, you were to play a level in MadWorld without the sound you would leave with a very different impression then someone who played the level with the sound on who heard all of the quips from the commentators. You might say "wow, that game is really fucked up, there didn't seem to be anything redeeming about the game." The other person might say "are you kidding me? That game was hilarious! I want to go back and play more." Content and context matter, and if something is funny enough it can be okay regardless of the elements used to get you to laugh. That is the basis of dark humor, which a number of movies and comedians use to great effect.

    Also, he was saying DNF isn't okay, but Bulletstorm is. :P

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
This discussion has been closed.